A word to the nice guys, from a former nice guy

Before actually delivering my message to the nice guys, I would like to clarify exactly who I am referring to, so that my target audience can understand my message better. Here are two categories the nice guys fall under.

Pseudo-nice Guys

These are only so-called nice guys who stay polite and offer everything to come off as nice, with the underlying intention of getting female attention, admiration, relationships and sex. Of course, they think only they know their true intentions, and sometimes even they themselves aren't actually aware, but their stench gives it away to any female they interact with.

Genuinely Nice Guys

These guys are genuinely of good nature. They mean what they say, say what they mean, and don't have any hidden agendas. Unlike the pseudo-nice guys, they may offer something to a girl without expecting it to yield something in return. They're usually open, honest, vulnerable and go all-in once they fall head over heels for someone.

A word to the nice guys, from a former nice guy

And finally, here's a word of advice to you. Stop being nice! It's been known time and again that girls do not want that. Most girls start dating during their teenage years, and the first guy they start off with is usually a playboy of some sort, a "bad boy" if you will. This boy has most likely "been around the campus" as they say, is popular, and being his "eye candy" might yield some additional perks. But what the girl really wants while approaching a guy like this, is the excitement she might get from unveiling his mysterious elements. Also, there's that desire to bag him as the girl who got him to stop "going around the campus" and stick only to her. From her own perspective, once she has done that, she has proven her value to be equal to his, to herself and to everyone else.

However, it never really goes down like that. Usually the girl ends up being "used" and unceremoniously ditched once the guy gets what he wants from her. That process usually happens a lot of times, usually all the way through her teenage years and most of her young adulthood, before she finally realizes that those guys aren't right for her. It is at that point that she starts wanting the nice guys (genuinely nice, not pseudo-nice).

Now here's something that these guys need to understand. You are worth a lot more than this. There's nothing special about being the "secure and stable" option. If you accept her now, you're lowering your own value. She went out and had her fun with awful guys before finally coming to you for marriage, stability, social security, and all of these other perks that those awful guys wouldn't offer her.

I had a rough life because of this mistake. When I was a teenager, I started out as a pseudo-nice guy, which means I was actually a jerk on the inside. I wasn't aware of it. I offered my shoulder to way too many girls who had their heart broken by jerks. But thankfully, I didn't end up getting a relationship with any of them, even though at that point I was too innocent to know that it's a good thing. I spent my teenage years entirely single, and as a result, gradually transitioned into a genuinely nice guy once I realized that being a fake social equivalent of Mother Teresa (a very charitable person) isn't exactly a deal sealer with the ladies. I spent my young adulthood as an open book, pursuing girls I liked without any hidden agendas. The problem was, it didn't change anything. Girls still didn't like me, at least not enough to give me their number, or go on a date with me. They liked me enough to have a drink with me that I paid for, sure. They liked me enough for me to drive them home, except she went inside her house alone, and I drove back to my home after that.

I ended up getting into my first relationship at the end of my 20s, with a woman who had a lot of experience. She was the same age as me, but she had been through a lot of crushes, FWBs, one-night stands, threesomes and so on during the years when I was trying to simply escape loneliness. Society said "past doesn't matter, she's with you now", so I believed it. I wound up giving her everything, and getting married to her. I was happy as ever when it began, because I had no idea about what I know now. But slowly, what we had started to fade. She didn't do anything wrong within the confines of our relationship and marriage. I just started to realize that I wasn't special. She didn't choose me, she settled for me. Every time I came home from work, I saw her asleep already, without me. No excitement, no happiness, no affection. We talked about, but things didn't change.

I filed for divorce a few years back, and have been all alone since then. Maybe this whole post was just a rant, maybe my life has turned me into a jerk. But I don't care. If there's one thing to learn from my mistakes, it's that you don't wanna be nice, and you certainly don't want to be with someone who ends up "realizing" that you're the right choice. People don't deserve it. You are beautiful and amazing, and if you get anything less than what you want, you shouldn't settle or try to rationalize it. If the world says it's "unrealistic", let them. It's still a lot more real than their cliched teachings about "acceptance" and whatnot.

If you read the whole thing, I am sorry for wasting your time. What I'm going through is beyond comprehension, and all I want, is for others to not go through that.

A word to the nice guys, from a former nice guy
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Most Helpful Guys

  • Passinggas
    Human nature in general is wretched and I know that I possess the same evil traits that all I encounter. I look at all that I interact with from a third person point of view to understand why they are the way they are to avoid anger or bitterness. That I do for either gender.

    I also do that for women but now I know I have special interest in this and I have to study myself as well as I get into it with her. I see her for the primal creature she is as well as myself and I never forget the selfish self interest of human nature and the female version of that.

    In that light, you have to remain at an emotional distance, say arms length, and be ready to walk at the drop of a hat regardless of how long or how committed the relationship is. The only way a woman will continue to value you is if she feels that you can do better and might. She needs to always feel the need to keep you happy or else you might leave. You are a mover and stay hot.

    You can never become comfortable with a woman because that marks instability in that she will be bored and start to hunt again as least mentally if not cheating. So, I don’t think you have to “Stop being nice!” necessarily but rather just be aware of what you are dealing with in human nature and the female version of it.

    “If you read the whole thing, I am sorry for wasting your time.” ditto
    Is this still revelant?
  • wesdev
    You are a jerk who tested being pseudonice and now a jerk again. You said your wife has not done anything wrong within your marriage. You knew about her when you married. Now you are jealous of her she enjoyed and u have not. You shouldn't have married her if you thought that way. But you married her. Now be a man keep your word and live your life. You may have got more money to spend on girls now but she settled on you for a reason. Leaving her and trying to live a college fantasy is stupid.
    You missed your chances in your youth that's your fault. Now dont spoil the life that you've got.
    Is this still revelant?
    • wesdev

      You mentioned she's sleeping. Does she sleep all the time? Is she in any depression?

    • Fuck off, divorce is legal, women divorce men often, the majority of divorces are initiated by women. Let's face it, divorce is not a life long commitment anymore.

    • wesdev

      Yup. I guess it's better for both of you. Njoy

    • Show All

Most Helpful Girls

  • I doubt you are a jerk. You are probably just a bit beat up. It is sort of the after math of getting divorced. I was listening to a song on Pandora Women In Rock from Alanis Morissette called You Oughta Know. A pretty bitter break up song about her time with her ex actor boyfriend. I thought wow I'm sure she isn't like that now. A lot of us go through the angry, sad or whatever period of time.

    For me part of it was knowing I tried too hard or helped to hard and at the end it didn't really amount to much since the other person didn't seem to appreciate it. I went through a period of time I didn't want to be the nice person. I thought I was only the nice person to my ex but I realized it was a bad habit in all my relationship. Nice became a dirty word for me.

    Then I started to set boundaries. Now I do what I want to do and when I want to do it. That way i can be nice or kind when it is the right time for both people I back slide sometimes but then I get over it. I would prefer a nice guy over any other type of guy. I don't do drama any more. I like to know that who the man I see in front of me is the same guy I'll see in private too.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Anonymous

      From your perspective, you simply made mistakes and learned from them. Others might not see it the same way. In the case of my marriage, I was just a lonely fool who thought I was lucky I got into a relationship at all, thought it was a miracle and I should just secure it. I don't think I would've entered that relationship at all if a better girl was on the table. That doesn't mean she was awful, she was terrific. But I was never okay with her past on the inside. I only accepted it because the norm is pushed on very hard. It's easy to say "I'm okay with your past, all that matters is the present" on the outside, but not everyone can be actually okay with it. Society should do more to rationalize the fact that it is okay to not be able to deal with your partner's past, instead of simply promoting all of it as a norm, or worse, lying.

      For whatever it's worth, my rant was written in a state of heavy drunkenness and depression. Maybe the fact is that not everyone is meant to live a life full of actual romantic and physical intimacy that is fulfilling. Maybe I should just accept that I'm one of those, and try seeking success elsewhere. I'm already an old man, a decade from retirement.
      If there's one thing I could've wished for, it's to turn back time and be a "bad boy", just going about having fun, no matter who gets hurt. At least it wouldn't have been me then.

      Also, I see you're trying to empathize with me. Thanks for trying to see things from my point of view. I hope you don't go through anything similar to this. I turned bitter and vindictive because of this. Any part of me that was ever full of innocence and wonder about having my own love story, is gone. I am in no shape to give advice, but if I were, I'd say "value yourself over anyone else".

    • You sound bitter that you didn’t get the opportunity to play the field like all the other bad boys had. Listen, if there’s one thing I know, bad boys might get the girls, but they can’t keep them. When bad boys marry, they end up being an EX husband. You could have kept your wife, but your insecurity of assuming she “settled” for you instead of choosing you is your own problem. How do you know she settled? Did you talk to her about this? We all have a past that we can either choose to let go of or let the past define us. Her past doesn’t sound so great, but neither does yours.

    • Anonymous

      @stardust101 She had all kinds of passionate sex with them, threesomes even, and didn't want any of that with me. Pretty clear to me that I was only ever a stable rock for her, not the ultimate prize that I wanted to be.

    • Show All
  • TayTay21
    What most younger people don't realize is that most people are trash. Judging your life by what everyone else is doing is like worrying what prison inmates think of your life path. Who cares. Live your life for you, and spend your efforts trying to find good people who will enhance your life.
    Is this still revelant?
    • swarvy

      Spot on. Been betrayed so many times by friends, family, girlfriends by the age of 31 that I've pretty much given up thinking that people have any heart or integrity. Don't let the opinions of shitty people get you down but be careful of being too altruistic.

    • "Being betrayed so many times" that's EXACTLY why people my age shouldn't be getting into relationships. I'm 16 if that's important

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What Girls & Guys Said

  • xCherryKizz
    Firstly u are not wasting my time and im honored i came across ur post. Not sure if im gonna ever be of help but i wanna tell u this.

    Love can comein any forms and most times people mistake it as infatuation. Or maybe like u said safe and secure maybe isny enough to last ur whole marriage, maybe friends yes but spouse no.

    Maybe this is why I've always never had a good opinion on marriage. It complicatea money matters, people get bored easily (if ur partner doesn't take turns to engage u, im a pretty fun person in my opinion and i prefer people who are creative otherwise ima get bored) , people marry easily thinking it is their permanent happinesd then div later knowing it isn't. If u r truly in love and wint mind sacrificing for ur partner, love them past their cute and nice days, you won't last.

    My point is never give up who you are, ur personality, ur attitude. The right person will come along. I dont believe there are good guys tbh, everyone have their angry and jerk times. And i know romance do die out no matter how much u love that person, but dont try to find ways and appreciate each other. My boyfriend would always tellme from time to time how great it is that we have the same sense of humor, or that he is thankful that i forgave him and vice versa.

    Stay strong bro you'll find it when she comes along. Join social events, have fun, dont try too hard in finding the right one, worst come to worst u have urself at the end of the day. Id prefer being single than with someone i dont really love for the rest of my life
    • Anonymous

      Thank you for empathizing with my issue. Your willingness to make me feel better and ease my conscience is more than what I thought I could get, more than I deserved to get, in response for my rant. A lot of things in there are way out of line, but venting it out helped me achieve temporary peace. And your response certainly helped me get some more of that.

      Members like you make the GAG community mean something. This isn't just about asking or answering questions. Everyone in this community should look out for one another. You have set a good example, one which I will try to follow. Thank you.

  • CarpetDenim
    I’m dating a genuinely nice guy. He’s never been with another person before me, romantically or sexually, and I love that exclusivity I have. I dated one guy before him and he was also an inexperienced and genuinely nice guy, but it never went anywhere on a physical level with him. I would never be attracted to a “bad boy.” Promiscuity is my number one turn off, and plenty of women feel the same way I do. Just because you had a bad experience being “nice” does not mean every other guy will too.
    • Anonymous

      I don't claim to be a prophet, predicting the future of every guy who reads this. This is just me looking out for those who have a chance of following the same path as me, which let's face it, is a lot of people. I realize that not everyone is doomed to what I'm going through. If that was the norm, I don't think I would've been posting this myTake at all. So to conclude, yes, I'm well-aware that plenty of nice guys do get a happy ending, one of them being your boyfriend. I'm happy for you, and wish nothing but the best for you two.

  • I commend you for rejecting to be in a relationship of convenience, it took courage from you and you ended up doing the right thing with your life. Praise on you for refusing to accept a mediocre life in a mediocre marriage with a mediocre woman! Never accept to be in relationship of convenience. Ever!
    • Anonymous

      That is exactly the lesson I learned from my experience. I was merely scared of being alone, thinking that I wouldn't get another chance again. Maybe it's true, maybe not, but fear had a big part in my decision to get married, even if I wasn't aware of it at the time.
      Regardless, all of that is over with, and at least I have half my money left. :P

  • SomeGuyCalledTom
    So now that you've abandoned your nice guy ways, are you swimming waist deep in pussy juice, or are your results just the same as before? Because unless it's the former, then you really can't draw causal relationships from your anecdotal (albeit emotionally impactful) experience. It's easy for anyone to play the "expert" on what NOT to do; but providing a tested and proven alternative that DOES work is wear most "advice" falls flatt, no matter how well intentioned it may be.
    • Anonymous

      I'm an old man with a 9-to-5 day job and a failed marriage. No one was interested in me before her, and I doubt anyone will be interested in me ever again. Ultimately, I guess I was meant to be alone, and no matter how hard I tried to avoid that destiny, it came to me. It's fine. I didn't have a realistic perception of girls, women and dating before, and at least I have that now, even if it won't help me one bit. At least I know that the grass isn't that green on the other side for everyone, including me. It gives me enough comfort to sleep at night. I'm still not happy, or satisfied. If I could turn back time, I would do it and go around being a "bad boy", establishing a score board and nailing everyone around me. Not that I can actually picture myself that way, but life would've been so different now had I been that way. I just don't this to happen to anyone else.

      Also I was deliriously drunk when I wrote the myTake, and was so depressed that I needed to get it out anyhow. I don't have any friends, or family, or anyone to talk to in real life. This is all I have, I used it, and to a certain degree, pain decreased, at least temporarily. I would consider that to be a luxury given the situation I'm in.

    • "old man" = "life experience"
      "9 to 5" = financially independent
      "failed marriage" = know what you want in a relationship and what you DON'T want

      It's all about perspective...

  • ObscuredBeyond
    I haven't stopped being who I am deep down. I'm simply better guarded today. I need more evidence that she's worth my time, before I start "selling the farm," so to speak. The gal has to genuinely intrigue me before I give more of my heart away. I no longer feel pressure to meet one just to prove I can. Already been there, done that. And watched it all go to Hell. And once I proved I can, those saying I couldn't finally shut up. Turns out, I didn't really want to be tied down that badly. I just didn't want my whole worth to be measured entirely by my prowess with women. And now, I've transcended all that. I keep my hand figuratively reaching for a fly swatter, just in case I ever need it. I'm friendly, but heavily guarded. After a few MeToo liars in my life were discredited after heated battles, most of my problems with women disappeared. Those women failed to destroy an innocent man, and now, no man trusts them. I'm jaded now, yes. But it takes a special kind of stupid from a woman to provoke my cruel side.
    • skyboy64

      Me 2 man me 2 , And I am 55 years old never been married, never had sex. I don't know how to anyway because they wouldn't show me how to do it. So why bother getting a girlfriend pregnant if she doesn't want you and me too. i been lie to by a gay guy poses as a straight girl. on computer cell phone so I can't trust anyone because of fake people taking advantage of me.

    • @skyboy64 : That is terrible. So is the fact that the powers that be have a gays can do no wrong mindset, and enforce it on is ever more aggressively. Which is why next year's elections will matter more than ever. The Demoncraps, if they win the White House, will legalize pedophilia and will outlaw homeschooling. We'll all be slaves of an out of control racket/ sexual death cult, and be worse off than China. And the Chinese government right now is as bad or worse than the Mafia.

  • itsaed_94
    In my country it's typical for guys to date or to want to date girls who have had one or no boyfriend, preferably virgins because the girls who have "a lot of experience" are called sluts, and guys don't want to date them. Why would you settle to date an experienced woman?
    • Malik00

      Because you set your expectations too high you'll end up with nothing. Honestly we have reached the point where if a girl was past the age of 18 and still a virgin i'd actually be wondering if she was asexual.

      At this point all you can really do is find someone you get along with and hope she doesn't cheat on you.(Which will probably happen anyway once she gets bored of you)

    • Anonymous

      At that point, I had been rejected by a million girls (figuratively speaking), had my heart broken in every single attempt. My mind had built up this weird idea that I am meant to live alone, and then, she came around. I took what was on the table, thinking it's a miracle, thinking this is the one and only chance I'm gonna get, and beggars can't be choosers. That does not mean she was awful, she was terrific, and I am sure she would be the ideal woman for a lot of men out there. But I was also highly depressed, and desperate, and thought I finally have a shot to get what I want, even if it comes with sacrifices.

      If there would've been a better girl on the table, I doubt I would've married this one and ended up down this rabbit-hole, writing a myTake while being super drunk. But then again, it's easy to blame the world. I've grown too old to care. I've resigned to my sadness and loneliness, no matter who's to blame.

    • itsaed_94

      I'm sorry you've gone through this. 🌹

    • Show All
  • hellionthesagereborn
    You can be nice and get a girl, however what is required is being strong too. That is you need to be willing to be alone (I understand what your saying I've had a similar situation (ex was older then me, I thought she wanted me then I realized later that what she wanted was security and I offered it, I could have been swapped out with any one else and she would have not made a difference to her).

    However I have learned from this and I refuse to fall for those kinds of women, I keep my eyes peeled for red flags and while I have been single quite some time now, I have avoided women like this. I still hope that I can find a good one (though its insanely difficult in this day and age, not all women want assholes but the majority do (just look at the responses, the women who just insult and get angry, those are the ones who are exactly as you stated, those however who argued with you and did so politely while showing empathy for the situation, those are the good ones. Find those types of girls not the other.).

    I would also say you need to know who YOU are first, you cannot use them to define you, if you do that the bad ones will exploit that. So you need to be confident in yourself, realize that you have value, be good but be strong too i. e. know your worth, appreciate yourself and be willing to walk away from a woman who is not of equivalent value. Never worship them, never be beholden to them you have to be the one in charge or they will never respect you as a man (and most women will argue against this because again, many want to exploit you (just like the men who tell women that their is nothing wrong with sleeping around, they only do it because they hope to get easy sex with no investment, these women will tell you to be nice and women want nice guys because they want you to be their as their safety net.). Do these things and eventually you will find some one.

    I'm sorry that you had to get dragged through the mud because of this (people these days are not honest and it really screws over those who are trying to figure things out and are too trusting not to question these claims).
    • Anonymous

      This is a rational and helpful response. Why use so many brackets though? :P
      Anyway, I learned my lesson the hard way. Sure, it's too late, but it does not matter. I am just one of the many on this boat, and if others can avoid the same fate as me, then I've made my fair share of difference. That is what this myTake is all about. Thank you for contributing to it.

    • Don't know, just what I do, its kind of an off topic or when pointing out something that is a bit of a tangent but I feel is pertinent. Just something I do. As for the rest, your welcome.

  • R_Cakes91
    I don’t want a “nice guy” I want a good guy. Someone whom I know is a good person. Don’t blame the entire species of women for your lack of success. Believe if or not, really nice women also have a hard time dating. You get used for dates, women often get used for sex. And so the vicious circle goes around.

    Just try to be a good person, treat everyone with respect and as equals. Good luck.
    • Exactly also why hide behind annoymous if you have something to say come out and say it.

    • markkick

      good point also , goes both ways

  • Sel226
    This is honestly the worst advice LOL. @GUYS AND GIRLS why don't you be yourself and be genuine about what you want, who you are and don't let anyone push you around. KNOW YOUR WORTH, don't let any person step on you or make you feel like you're shit and don't go ruining your relationship by cheating or doing something stupid. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk NEXT.
  • JimmyQ
    Seems to me that you are still trying to be the "nice guy", but in reality there is no such thing. We all fail ourselves at times as well as those who depend on us. That's what it means to be human.

    I have no idea where you got your expectations of marriage from, but speaking strictly from experience, you are way off base.

    I hate to tell you this, but you may be unlovable. What I mean is that you cannot get something out of a love relationship that you don't put into it yourself. She will only be a reflection of your efforts.

    There is a certain time when people begin to drift apart. It generally has to do with a lack of interest in the physical aspects of the relationship. People get fat, or develop alcoholism, or become workaholics because they no longer enjoy the intimacy that once fueled the romance so they seek other ways to satisfy themselves apart from their spouse.

    It is your job as the spiritual leader of the household to keep your wife healthy. I don't know how hard you may have tried to do this or maybe you never realized it is your job. By definition the word "Husband" means keeper of the garden. In Holy Matrimony she gave you consent to be the keeper of her garden.

    I can sense your rage and totally understand how you feel betrayed, but you did accept the job. I understand that she is not the person you may have been mislead to believe, but you did buy into the whole two cars and a white picket fence dream and now you're running away like a spoiled little child, and to what? Just looking for a retread, a re-do, another broken-down soul?

    I also note that there are no children mentioned. I'm not trying to be hard on anyone here, but to me children are the # 1 reason for marriage.

    It seems that you both would benefit greatly from some serious counseling. It all starts with bare naked honesty and I'm afraid that is something "nice guys" are incapable of.
    • Anonymous

      Spirituality isn't welcome in my life, never was. Not that I was ever anti-religion, I just view it in the same light as cults and refuse to acknowledge it as something worth discussing.
      Stripping all of that from your opinion, there are certain parts that are accurate, certain that aren't, and some which are pretty helpful. It's kind of an amazing thing that you want to shed light on what makes couples drift apart. Not that any of that was groundbreaking knowledge or had anything to do with my situation, but it may be helpful to someone else.

      As for the inaccurate parts, we got divorced years ago, I haven't seen her or been in contact with her since, so there's no need for "counseling", even if it were possible. I genuinely put my heart and soul into the relationship, thinking "don't worry, she loves you, she just needs time to recuperate from her past relationships where she put her heart and soul into it, and the guy just broke her heart". I believed she was in need of recovery, and that once she would reach it, our relationship would be almost as if she too had never been in a relationship before, at least from an emotional aspect. I thought I was going to have my love and efforts reciprocated, but that never happened.

      I won't blame the whole thing on her. I certainly don't hate her. I just wish I had made different choices. I wouldn't have been happy being an asshole, but maybe that would've gotten me what I wanted. It doesn't matter now. I am too late. I never thought about kids, neither of us did. But then again, maybe it's natural for thoughts as serious as those to occur in a marriage where there's no spark. If there ever was a part of me that wanted kids, it's dead now.

    • JimmyQ

      Everything is spiritual, with you or without you. Your immediate failure to understand that most basis principle is the cause of all of your other failures.

      I state fact while you attempt to cover up your shortcomings. This is nothing new.

      You are obviously still reliving the play by play in your head. May as well get it straight. You did this. Own your failure and try not to repeat it, lie to yourself and everyone else, take the class again.

      Your choice.

    • Anonymous

      Science has been backing up facts since over 100 years, when "spirituality" has been taking shots in the dark since over 10,000. If you believe in spirituality so much, go ahead and live in the woods, give up your clothes and food to those who really need it and would be grateful for it. Don't impose your entitled views on others. We have minds of our own.

      There's no denying that I failed. You're pointing that out like it's a new observation. Great, you saw that I failed. Are you expecting a medal for it? Are you expecting me to announce "JimmyQ admits I failed, he is smart, he is good boy"? You can go ahead and pat yourself on the back thinking you've imparted your invaluable wisdom on to a "godless creature" like me, but that won't change anything that's real, anything that counts, anything that is outside the bubble of your delusions.

      I'm not covering up my shortcomings one bit. While you're busy playing "holier than thou", I'm dealing with actual problems which you probably can't even begin to fathom. It's shameful that people of your community have to deal with your callousness and irrationality on a daily basis. I feel sorry for you and everyone around you.

    • Show All
  • KristaGrym
    I mean you are my age and you decided to stop being a truly nice guy becasue some bad woman hurt u ergo u haven't bee ever a truly nice guy. Next!
    • But that's not what he said? He stated he was nice, he wanted a relationship, he bought into the idea that the past doesn't matter (which of course is a lie, it very much matters) and as a result he feels like if he was an asshole and just went with casual sex at least he wouldn't have been taken for granted by some one he thought cared but who only was using him for security. That's entirely different then what your claiming he said. That suggests that perhaps he hit a nerve and that's why you and so many other women are taking this so personally rather then looking at it objectively.

    • KristaGrym

      A bad guy...

    • A bad girl.

    • Show All
  • cavmanier
    I consider myself nice but I'm not trying to get as many women as possible. I actually rarely like women and I only like the nice ones. I match well with them. I don't want volume or I'd be getting it..
  • MustachePenguin
    I'm not going to be an asshole because of a few bad apples in the bunch. I would rather marry a nice girl than someone who's not. So, I'm going to be myself and not pretend to be someone I'm not, because that's where guys go wrong. Everybody treats relationships like they are some kind of argument to be won.
  • MikeAndMolly
    Lots of fucked up ideas here.

    I suspect you know that these ideas are fucked up and, really, not actually that true, but I get that you need to rant and vent about them.

    People, as in humans, tend to like nice people. We want companions, love, and trust.

    All that sexist stuff about typical girls and typical guys and the typical set up to the mindset of the modern woman...

    I mean, you're a rational guy, right? So you know that the lack of survey data, the lack of really any evidence to back up these claims whatsoever completely invalidates them.

    I'm sorry you've been through some shit.

    Hope you find happiness and can revisit these ideas later on and realize how fucked up your mind was back then.

    Good luck.
    • Anonymous

      I am already aware that the rant was messed up. I am a lot more articulate than that, but I was drunk out of my gourds. At that particular point, I just felt like she would never have come to me if she wouldn't have had those million experiences with the millions of bad boys she previous dated and/or hooked up with and got hurt by (millions being entirely metaphorical). And to top that, it's not like I had anything special to offer her. There are plenty of other guys out there who can provide her with a stable, married life, with food being served to her on a plate every single day, and a comfortable bed being provided to sleep on. One of them could've been that. I just thought that it was my only way to ever have any romantic intimacy, and I should take what I get.

      Yes, it is obviously unfair to both her and I. But in hindsight, both she and I deserved better. I wouldn't make myself out to be the victim, and her to be a manipulator or perpetrator who took advantage of me. I just grew old chasing a spark with her, which she already had with plenty of guys before meeting me, and maybe she just didn't want that with me, which is fine. If only I had a thought process back in the day as clear as I have at this present moment, I would've seen that coming and never gotten into that relationship in the first place. But I was blinded by the thought of being alone forever. And here I am now, alone forever.

  • foriWish
    I read a little (not going to lie) and I call bullshit on the little I read. I like nice guys and I am a girl so stop lying to nice guys that we don't like them. I did not date bad boys in my teen years and am now NOT using good guys to settle. You talk and talk but guys are just like women in that prospective to sleep around in their teens years and half of young adult life with users, the only difference is guys can still get a good young woman when they are much older unlike women since it's all about looks and being young.

    Point is, both genders does that. There are nice girls out there and nice guys. There are also Pseudo-nice Guys AND Pseudo-nice Girls out there. Period
    • If girls liked nice guys, they wouldn't all be single while all assholes have 4 girlfriends at once at a time.

    • foriWish

      @Rangers obviously that isn't every case. Also, you're not a nice guy so I have no idea why you're making that point

  • genericname85
    the harsh truth is, if most people take a genuine look at themselves, they're neither nice nor good. it is only once you acknowledge that and genuinely work at that, that you have a chance of being a "nice" person. most people who say they're "nice" don't even know who they are.
  • Firstly I find this to pile of shit. Fine you believe what you want. I didn't get my girlfriend and friends by playing dirty. I'm well ware the saying Nice Guys finish last but You dont exactly finish first for playing tough guy either.
  • LohrvsData
    I think you're making really unfair generalizations about women just because you've had bad experiences. It's never a good thing to do, and will never get you anything in the end because most decent women will just see you as a misogynistic asshole.

    Take it from a man that used to be the "bad boy" type you refer to. Yes, immature women will fall for bad boys, but more often than not, things just click into place, no matter what type of person you are, which is unfortunate in some cases.
    • Anonymous

      Misogyny shouldn't be validated like a real thing, it's an excuse most women use to hide from real world issues and get away from consequences. I don't care about male or female, but if you notice general news, you won't see a lot of men accusing women of misandry. Heck, there isn't even a lot of mention of misandry coming up. Misogyny is dropped everywhere so casually, but a lot of people might be reading the word "misandry" for the very first time right now.

      It just goes to show that a phenomenon has come into being. Both men and women make mistakes, but most men would either own up to it, or make almost any excuse other than turning the situation into a whole "I am a man" thing. But women, on the other hand, define themselves by their gender way too much, so much so that it is disgusting. It's almost as if they want to be objectified and seen as something less than men, or less than human.
      The fact that this website exists is proof that society has developed on flawed foundations. There will never be peace as long as gender is treated so legitimately.

  • themaker39
    This exactly what I tell everyone about "experienced" ones, that they ride 100 dicks then settle down for some tame guy, and this is what everyone doesn't want to hear lol, but stick to your principles. I'm sorry for you. At the same time I'm glad I know this at my age.
    • Anonymous

      That's a very crude and objectifying way of putting it, but it's also the most honest way of putting it. I don't think 100 vaginas is a victory or something, and I don't think 100 dicks is bad. But at the same time, I personally feel it is gross. Society seems to have adopted a weird communication model, "don't ask, don't tell" about the past, with a lot of people going the extra mile of lying for convenience. That is actually a double standard. Most people claim to believe in self-empowerment, body positivism and all that stuff, but only enough to sleep around. However, if they really did, they wouldn't be going about lying about their numbers. If you're so proud of your self, why not just say "I've licked n number of genitals" with complete honesty?

      Say what you want about my myTake, and this response. At least I'm honest. Society simply wishes to cover up it's ugliness by doing the deed and not owning up to it. It's the sexual equivalent of having your cake and eating it too. I'm glad you aren't going to be a part of this trap.

    • themaker39

      You couldn't be more right when you called it the equivalent of having your cake and eating it too.

      Also, I really am sorry to hear how bad things turned out for you. I hope you'll have the strength to turn it around for yourself and with the experience you gained, to find a sane woman.
      I went through some horror shit myself but definitely lighter than you, and I know what went through your mind in your teenage years because I was like that too.
      You may have a tendency to sacrifice too much (that's what I do) for too little. Never forget to be your best friend. Unfortunately people rarely return (or value) your sacrifice, so you have to move the focus on yourself. Godspeed!

  • JimboGB
    The trick is to have a woman chase you, not you chasing her.
    You aren't a jerk at all and articulated your mistake tremendously well. Good men don't appreciate how much of a catch they are.

    There has to be some level of achievement she can feel by acquiring some of your time and attention. This is important for that sense of excitement you were talking about
  • skyboy64
    You copy my life story except for the married part I never got married or have a one night stand and never had sex. I am still waiting for the right person to date , and I have a girlfriend but she is not sure about me , she wants to marry me but I haven't gotten to know enough about her yet , I want to go slow , not fast.
    • skyboy64

      I had 2 girlfriend who wanted to marry me before I get to know more about them , So they left me , because of me not wanting to be married , I still heartbroken over going too slow for them.

    • Anonymous

      I can't say I've been in your shoes, or that I understand from experience. But as a person, I realize it can be hard, loving someone but not being sure about marriage, and being left alone because of it. In my case, I don't think I really wanted to do it either. That wasn't marriage out of love, it was marriage out of fear of losing the only relationship I ever got, and the only one I thought I will ever have (turned out to be true), which is why I did it to secure what I had.

      I am in no shape to give any advice, but here's what I think. You should be honest. If that hurts your partner, it's fine. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. If they leave you, maybe it's for the best. You will be a lot happier with someone who feels the same way as you about the relationship.

  • Sunshine_1985
    Very Very good article!! I loved reading this!!! 110% correct!!
    • Also you are NOT a jerk. You are a GREAT guy!

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for being nice to me. I realize that a lot of what I said was way out of line, borderline unacceptable in nature. It's people like you, understanding and compassionate, that are fit to represent this community. This website needs more people like you. Heck, the world needs more people like you. You made me feel better, in the middle of tons of depression. It's temporary, but you did a good deed. You should be proud of yourself.

  • Kronx
    It's a tragic end to be the nice guy in that relationship. It's a bitter tasting win that leaves you questioning if you've abandoned the principles of finding the one that's right for you. Sorry that had to happen to you bud.
  • QueenTanya
    Just because you were a so-called "nice guy" and had one bad experience with one woman, doesn't mean every other nice guy is gonna automatically have a bad experience like you. You can't blame all women for your faults and insecurities. You didn't have your "fun" in high school/college and you regret it so you went the extra mile to bring it out on your ex-wife and to write this rant. The truth is, you can't help but compare yourself to her past ex-boyfriends which you believe must have been a "bad boy." That's why you didn't feel special. Believe me, you aren't the only heart-broken, insecure, dude - there are more like you out there. So at least you'll have the comfort of being in the majority, right? This whole rant of yours reeks of a YOU problem. If I were to list it all, you'd be sitting here reading it all day.
  • MzAsh
    There’s a difference between a nice guy and a good guy. Be a good guy.
    • MzAsh

      I also agree with the person who said your problem wasn’t being nice but your lack of experience. You were desperate because YOU were not at your best, you err just an average dude who was lonely (big mistake there already) and you took the first girl that settled for you. That was your mistake from the sound of it according to what you wrote here.

  • Nic1330
    so here's what i took away from this post, you had a bad experience and assume that every other man in the world is the same as you. grow up man i hate that you had to go through what you did but hey lifes hard for everyone
  • BrotherFrost
    For the love of fuck stop spreading this disease. Being a nice guy doesn't prevent you from getting dates. I like to think that i am nice. But i i'm not a pushover. Just don't be a pushover and realize that you are your own most valuable person on the planet. Don't be afraid to tell a girl to pack her things and get the fuck out. Unless you have kids together. That would make it a bit more complicated...
  • Games_
    No ones gonna stop being nice because somebody online said so, and girls do want a guy who's nice lol.

    Stop watching incel videos, they poison your mind
  • BuckWild
    Do you ever feel like you bought the lie and she sold it to you? I read every word of your post twice and I know exactly what you mean.
    • BuckWild

      I really empathize with how you are feeling. I've been where you are, in fact I am where you are. I've done a lot of research into human behavior as well as a tremendous amount of soul-searching to come to some amount of peace and understanding with it all. Unfortunately when it comes to buying a lie, she didn't sell it. Our society and culture sold the lie. And the lie causes us, both males and females, to have completely unrealistic expectations when it comes to love and relationships. You put in the effort and did everything right but it did not produce the results that you had hoped for. The problem is that we as humans are not programmed to have the kinds of relationships that we see in Disney movies. Our programming results in overlapping serial monogamy. This is in stark contrast to the fantasy that relationships are supposed to be one-size-fits-all monogamy boxes that do not have an expiration date. That's just looking at it conceptually. The actual experience as most of us come to know is much more confusing and dysphoric.

    • BuckWild

      Relationships start with very intense feelings that fade to feelings of loving attachment that eventually transition into irritability and resentment. Depending on the individual it happens after 4 to 7 years. If you've heard of the seven year Itch, it's real. Scientists that study evolutionary biology think that our hormones cause us to pair up in a highly sexual way that will result in a pregnancy and that will transition into a team to ensure that offspring gets to be around 5 years old. At that point we start to explore feelings of desire towards others and serial monogamy rolls on. And it is really overlapping serial monogamy because one partner usually gets the itch before the other. We are a product of our environment and this is how we evolved to survive. And survival means shuffling and passing genes on to the next generation. Survival that's nothing to do with being happy and being nice give you no advantage in survival. All of that said, it doesn't make me feel any better. We are basically slaves to our genes and it would seem that suffering ensures survival better than anything else.

      It was kind of exhausting to write all of that. I hope it all makes sense. I didn't fully go back to check for errors and for cohesion of thought.

      Send me a PM if you want to chat about it. it sounds like you're having a rough time with this and I'd like to know more about your situation.

    • Anonymous

      Seems like you've made your fair share of mistakes to realize exactly how I feel. I honestly didn't expect so many people to read my myTake. I'm surprised anyone read it at all, and even more so that you did. You seem to bring something else entirely to this discussion. A psychological perspective? Perhaps. Evolutionary science? A bit.

      What I see is a balanced mind breaking down the phenomenon that people like us have been through. These things tend to happen in society without most people realizing it. If only Neil DeGrasse Tyson or someone as smart as that could've provided a response, it would've been much like your's.

      As for my situation, I described it word for word. I didn't victimize myself, or make her out to be the villain, because she really wasn't. She deserved better, and so did I. At least one of us had to be honest enough to admit that the marriage wasn't exciting, or full of life, even though a lot of people tend to have that. Maybe she was subconsciously okay with settling for stability, but I wasn't okay with it. So I did what I had to do. It wasn't easy, and it sure as hell wasn't an act of kindness. I did it with more selfish intent than imaginable. I lost half of our joint net worth, and the only person who ever placed herself in the same bed as me, but I gained clarity. That doesn't mean I'm happy, or satisfied, or better off in every aspect. She used to fix the light bulb issues and leaky faucet issues around the house, now I have to get electricians and plumbers to do it. But that is fine. At least the plumber and I have a relationship more honest our marriage. We know what it's about, who's gaining what, and that it'll be over once we've both gotten what we wanted. And, to top that, I actually end up getting what I want, which I did not throughout all of those years of marriage.

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  • Janncis
    I dont think being nice was problem, but your lack of experiance. I was in somehow similar situation, but dodged that bullet, with ending engadgment.
    But hey it not like i can blame you for that, have done plenty of mistakes myself.
  • Bellaboo01
    I don't think being a nice guy is what gets people into that situation. I don't like to say all nice guys are the same either. That's just not true. Nice is one quality, one that should be easy and everyone should be nice. Shouldn't it be the other qualities that you have that make different to other people. In sorry you had a bad experience. However I don't think it happened because you are a nice guy. Getting a divorce was probably the right thing to do. If you were unsatisfied and weren't getting what you wanted then it wasn't meant to be. Clearly you want a women who is affectionate and excited to see you. Which there are definitely women out there that would be. That's just my opinion what do I know?
    • Al contrair!!! Being a nice guy is exactly what took him to his divorce!!! You do good gestures of love and all you get for it is neglect!!! women dont want a nice guy till they are more matured and probably with child from a asshole... blaming all men for the dumbass they picked and turning down legit nice guys cuz they were too safe

    • Bellaboo01

      I disagree we aren't all the same it's unfair to group us into one.

    • I do apologize but it's rare to see a women not in this category in real life!!! Online they all say they want a nice guy that listens and shows affection and gives little love details and once they have him and all he wants is to love and be loved!!! He gets taken for granted!!! And if more than one guy is saying it then that's kinda just proving a point.

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  • zeineboyy
    Yo i feel you I'm 19 with little experience with women I feel so behind especially when my friends are jerks and they have been with so many woman, I'm a genuine nice guy and I'd like some advice I don't Wana stay this way.
  • Gammerman
    Really sorry that happened to you man. I myself am headed down the dance path I guess. Not sure how to not key that happen though because im not gonna go out being a peice I'd crap all of a sudden. I am who I am.
  • jabariw18
    I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm 28 years old and struggle to even scratch the surface of dating because of stupid, superficial expectations by most girls out there. The only women who ever want anything to do with me have already slept around and have kids and see me as the stable option for her and her children. Even those are few and far between, presumably because I'm black. I don't mean to pull the race card but people don't usually look at blacks as a stable option unless they actually take the time to get to know me on a personal level.
    • Anonymous

      I'm pretty sure both you and I don't hold an aggressive stance against girls who have slept around and have kids. It's perfectly fine that they wanted to sleep around and have kids, or that they made mistakes and learned from them.

      The problem is, society expects us to ignore what we want and support them. It's not wrong for me to wanna be with a virgin. But I dare not say it out loud in real life, for they will start calling me names and say that I'm a misogynist. All decisions have consequences. I am all for empowerment, and self-love, and I believe everyone has the right to do what they wanna do with their body and their life. But I also have the right to feel how I feel. Just because I would never date a girl with kids (not like they're interested in me in the first place), does not mean I hate them, or am rallying against them. They can easily find someone else to be with, and plenty of other people would be interested in actively pursuing relationships with them. But it's just not me. Why do people have to always spin it around to make me the villain?

      Anyway, I get the whole race card thing. Dark-skinned men are usually associated with the hood, gangs, drugs, all of that. It's weird how society still sees the whole race thing, but I refuse to be a part of that. All I can say, is that no matter what your race, you're still a person with needs and wants. I made the mistake of overlooking my own needs and wants out of fear that I won't get another chance, and this is where I ended up because of it. If you don't wanna end up here, you should value yourself above anyone and everyone else. You are the prize. If they don't have what it takes to make you happy, then they don't deserve to be a part of your life, I don't care if they were a saint of a human being before having a million kids. And if you still end up alone, at least you won't feel used like a doormat, like how I feel.

    • jabariw18

      The problem I have is that nobody even seems to want to give me a chance in the first place except the rare occasions when I get a DM from the fat mama with 3 kids already. I know I"m not the most attractive dude but I see nothing short of shallowness and prejudgment in this case. Everyone I know always tells me I'm handsome and kind and smart etc but girls never wanna take a shot at me ever. Real life is perpetual friendzone and online is like I'm invisible to anyone I try to talk to. They take one glance at my pic and instantly know they aren't interested. I get more DMS from cam girls and transgenders than anyone else, followed by fat mamas and then MAYBE a decent looking girl who will probably not last more than 0-2 messages before ghosting.

    • Anonymous

      If there's one thing I've learned over my years with 0% success rate, it's that the internet is absolutely not your friend when it comes to finding dates. It is easy for anyone to press the "block" button on you after assuming that you have nothing to offer based on your physical appearance. I am pretty sure that's what you do to the "fat mamas with 3 kids" as well. The truth is, if you want to be the best you can be, and have a chance to show what you have to offer, there is no better way than offline. They can't just hit the "block" button offline. They can still tell you to walk away, or they themselves can walk away. But, people tend to not wanna do that in real life, because that might make them feel uncomfortable, or put them in a confrontational situation.

      I'd say you'd better log off, go out there, chase what you want, and don't be an ass to those who don't qualify as what you want. It is perfectly fine to politely decline and reject, a lot of which will also definitely come your way. But I would not condone using terminology like "fat mamas with 3 kids" and "cam girls and transgenders" offline. Not that those are insults, it's just that when it's tonally derogatory, it tends to make you come off like a judgmental human being who thinks they're better than everyone else. It's best to stay humble and level-headed.

  • LightEnd
    I feel for you man. If you did not have any children with her then you escaped by the hair on your chiny chin chin.

    Find something other than women to fulfill you. Unfortunately, women no longer care about providing value in a relationship. Sure there are some. But trying to slog through the wasteland to find one is a dangerous expedition in which you may fall into a sink hole like I did.

    If you still have access to all of the money you make and dont have to give it all away. Find something in life that is a worthy goal and persue it. Best of luck to you man.
    • Anonymous

      I only last half of our joint financial net-worth. No alimony checks, mainly because we never got to the phase of wanting kids, or starting a family. I mean we never even got around to talking about it, or thinking about it, even though all of her friends look like they have gotten into exciting marriages, and have multiple kids. Either way, it is a good thing we never got around to it. I don't think I can live with having a child who is 50% her. Don't get me wrong, she is an amazing person at heart. But we just never really had..."it". I never really felt like I was at the center of her life, or she was at the center of mine. She meant a lot to me, but it wasn't a perfect relationship, and we were definitely not two-pieces of a puzzle that fit. Only couples like those should have kids, at least for the sake of the kids.
      I don't think I'll ever have kids. I'm too old now. Part of me wishes I could've had that. But deep down, I know that if I really wanted to be a dad, that's only one phone call to a foster-care away. I'd rather not have a kid at all, than adopt one, or make one through arrangements like sperm-donation, or have one with a woman I don't have a larger-than-life connection with.

    • LightEnd

      It's funny listening to these people that have no clue. Like the woman below who said "next" lol. These women think they are so special and dont realize they offer nothing. It blows my mind. Like they think they are some sort of rare treasure. Hilarious

    • LightEnd

      It's kind of like this is all that is left.

      Hi, I'm a 30 something single mom with 1 or 2 baby daddies. They aren't in my life anymore because they are worthless men who dont know how to serve and appreciate me for how special I am. It's ok too because they support me (I mean my kids) I am a strong independent woman but most of what I have, I have gotten from men. But they owe it to me because I am a female and I cannot get these things on my own. Although I have been in many relationships I never did anything wrong, I was the perfect partner, all my men where just pieces of shit who didn't know how to serve my needs. Nevermind that I didn't offer them any actual love and affection, support or interest in them as a human being, they should just have been happy that I graced them with my presence and let them have some sex occasionally.


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  • VeggiePizzaDude
    I used to hold doors open for chicks, but they wouldn't let me fuck them, so now I live in Africa as a women-thieving warlord and I never looked back!
    • Anonymous

      Me and my type don't represent or look out for human traffickers. I hope you're not actually one of them, and are just saying this to make fun of me or something. Insult me, I don't care. But human trafficking is a crime.

    • It's NOT illegal when you decide the laws. Checkmate.

  • Josue274749347
    Oof I'm doomed I'm nice no wonder I have never gotten a girl than again don't want to be known as a jerk that's not rlly my style I'm more of a gentleman
  • I didn't read much but Pua's warn guys of this and why it is important to learn the art of getting women.
  • markkick
    ya , I have similar stories, I always struggled with dating and meeting women, I'm lucky cause I met a cute latina, she likes nice guys that look rugged, lucky me, still together after 28 years
    • Anonymous

      Congratulations. I'm happy for you two. You have found resolution. Everybody deserves one.

    • markkick

      thank you

  • Browneye57
    So much whining... so little time. [rolls eyes]
    At least you're ripe for red pill knowledge. And no, you NEVER put a woman on a pedestal. EVER.

    The only way to keep a woman true over the years is to be so fucking awesome and rich they can't afford to leave. Otherwise, they all get bored, and will fuck around on you if you don't pay attention. It's called 'hypergamy', and it says any woman will dump a perfectly good guy if she's bored, or if she thinks she can get a better one.

    Women love opportunistically.
    Guys love idealistically.
  • ask4any
    Too late pal, been through it, still going through it. It's painful. It's lonely, it's life. I appreciate your rant though.
    • Anonymous

      You're not alone bro. We're in this together. I'll tell you what. I am just around as old as you, and I still feel like I haven't accomplished anything big in life that I wanted to. I've spent about 5 decades chasing stuff and not getting it, suffering from a lot of depression and whatnot, and I'm still alive. If I can get through this alive, you can too. That, is rewarding enough for people like us. Thanks for resonating with me, and hope you find resolution.

    • ask4any

      My Man!!

  • steppie88
    R cakes91 said was right most women want good guy. That will stand for the beliefs show a little backbone
  • Philyouup
    Dude. I get it. But that is your slice of life. And I am sorry it sucked. Yeah some women are like you said, and some guys are like you said. But not everyone is like this. Not at all. I am
    Married and divorced twice. Still have fun. Just not in any hurry to settle down. But I still love woman. Their company and affections. Just waiting for the right one to come around. And if I miss her. Oh well. No one is that unique or am that special. The next “ right” one will be along before I die. Hopefully. Go out. Take chances. Enjoy life. And you know what, you just really might find the proper right one.
  • lucas262
    Everything you said, I hear so much of this in the mgtow community, they are stereotyped
    As women hating losers that can't get laid, on the contrary many are guys just like you that have seen these kind of uncomfortable truths and tell other men, almost word for word i hear it often. ,, alpha fucks and beta bucks,, you where the beta bucks.

    For myself I'm Christian and choose celibacy till marriage, and refuse to settle for someone that wouldn't do the same for me.

    I need a woman who shares my faith, and my values. Yea I want her to be pretty and sexy and all this stuff but she needs to beautiful from inside out.

    I say that having been mgtow since 2015, mgtow taught me female psychology, how society veiws me as a man, i was the most blue pill cuck out there before, but not now.
  • KrakenAttackin
    A key of life, " you can't turn a wh@re into a housewife". (full stop).
  • Shamalien
    Damn dude u lived some life, thanks for helpin save us all that trouble foreal

    I never settled, had more than a few already messed up chicks try to date me when I was in my mid teens but I always ended up refusin to date em after getting to know em even a little bit because it was so clear. I later regretted that for many years as u know what society thinks of men who ‘dont get laid’ but now I’ve come to recognize it was wise. Still, some animal part of me is jealous of the sex crazed around me...
  • October808
    Except you're not correct. Women want good guys.
    • Mirela_pr

      Exactly, there are a lot of women who want a good guy.

  • GirlFromPlanetEarth
    Genuinely nice guy = good guy
    • Which equals being forever alone😂

  • I wanna be the nice guy. 😬
  • I agree, unfortunately