Wow lol I can only assume you're a troll. I'm a true bisexual. I have had long term, monogamous relationships with men and women of all different looks, shapes, sizes and style preferences.
There is a lot of promiscuity in the LGBT community for sure, but this is not limited to studs or butcher lesbians. in fact from personal experience and from what I've seen with my own eyes it's the butcher types that want love and monogamy and something serious and the femme types that jump from stud type to stud type sleeping around.
I can only assume you're ignorant and had a couple bad examples. But people are people and you can't say every group is just like any one of them because we are all humans with different experiences and goals and wants and needs and morals, etc. It is like saying it's ok to cross the road when you see a black person because you don't want to get mugged or raped. Just because there are some African Americans who are criminals it is definitely not the majority and you can't know which ones will by the color of their skin aka the way they look.
So again I can only imagine you're a troll because no one could be this ignorant.
Hi, butch-ish lesbian here!
Butch lesbians have the same likelihood of being toxic, abusive, manipulative, or sleeping around as any other person. There are certainly toxic butch lesbians, just like there are toxic straight women, bi women, straight men, bi men, gay men, etc. There are also lovely supportive kind butch lesbians, just like with everyone else.
Furthermore, we aren't "pretending to be boys". We're women. Nothing about us is male, it's part of being a lesbian. We just prefer a certain style of presentation and behavior. I know that I feel more comfortable in "masculine" clothing (even though clothes don't have to be gendered). I think I look nice in my clothes, and I find I attract less unwanted attention from men when I'm dressed butch (which is the goal). It's what I'm comfortable in.
I get the feeling that you have a lot of negative stereotypes of butch lesbians which are far less common than you probably think. If you're genuinely interested in learning more about lesbians/ butches/our relationship with womanhood and femininity, I'd be happy to try and help.
I get the feeling you're trolling me, but I don't love that a questions about butch lesbians has almost twice as many answers from men as from women, so I'll try to explain my thinking.
I see where you're coming from. I often wear clothes from the men's section of the store, and I often style my clothes in ways that straight or femme women wouldn't. I am being influenced by fashion intended for men. I make a point to open doors and pull out chairs, and in that way am influenced by behaviors associated with men. Despite this (regardless of it in fact) I am not a man, and I'm not pretending to be one. I'm a woman and a lesbian. I know this for a fact, and I hope you can trust me on it.
A white guy who wears a durag, sags his pants, and uses the n-word is being influenced by and mimicking black culture and style. I doubt that you would say he is black, or pretending to be black. He's developing his personal style by recreating things that he sees and likes. Mimicking behaviors and styles that you like isn't "pretending". It's just a part of self expression.
Have you ever gotten a shirt or haircut or a pair of shoes because you saw someone you liked or admired with something similar? Are you pretending to be them? Why or why not?
Well doesn’t that mean your getting all the benefits of being a man without experiencing the bad stuff, like women will see as a women so they would see your sexual advances as creepy or manipulative. You won’t ever have to pay child support for the rest of your life or no what it like for a girl to abort your baby even though you want one. So yeah it’s exactly like white guys taking on a black man style without experiencing the negative stuff. Like they while never get racially profiled by the cops or have to be followed around the mall. So they can are being influenced by black culture but they’ll never get hurt like we do.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t have a problem with it. I was just point out how hypocritical it was for women to say men that act duche are toxic but the butch lesbians seem to take all there mannerism and style from the very men they claim to hate.
And I’m Jamaican so most of my style comes from that culture.
LMAO g@g said my reply was too long, so I'm going to try splitting it in 2
It's true that there are some negative male experiences that I won't ever experience, but I don't get the benefits of being male, because the vast majority of people can tell that I'm a woman. I still get sexism, and I also get homophobia on top of that. I've been harassed, insulted, and threatened both while dressing "masculinely" and "femininely" but always because I'm a woman. That won't ever go away just because I'm wearing a button down and straight legged pants. I get the positive and negative sides of being a woman, and the positive and negative sides of being a butch lesbian. I don't get the positive or negative sides of being a man because I'm not a man, and very few people mistake me for a man.
I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding a butch lesbian's relationship with womanhood. We don't benefit from male privilege because we're not male and (usually) we're not perceived as male. We don't want to be male. We just like certain aspects of masculine fashion. Do you wear earrings, or know men who wear earrings? It's a bit like that to a larger degree. A traditionally masculine thing that I like for personal aesthetic reasons, that has no bearing on my gender or how people see my gender.
I get what you mean about a white guy dressing black not getting the negatives of racism, and I totally agree. I have no idea if the same white guy would also get the benefits of being black, but I'll trust you when you say he does. Trust me when I say that while I don't get the negatives of being a man, I definitely don't get the positives either.
I'm not sure which butch lesbians you've interacted with, and I can only speak to my own experience. Every single butch lesbian I have ever met (dozens) has been basically a good person (with the exception of one who I'll get to later). They are as varied as you would expect human beings to be, but the vast majority of them are very kind.
I think the "why women don't criticize butches the way they criticize men" can be difficult to see if you don't know any butch lesbians. I criticize men for making unwanted comments or advances, ignoring my opinion in favor of my body, and treating me with less respect than my male peers. These are also things that I would criticize a woman for, if I ever saw a woman do them. I've only met one lesbian (of dozens) who made unwanted advances on someone else, and when I criticized her for it she stopped. I have never had a butch ignore my opinion in favor of my body. I have never had a butch respect me less than my male peers. I have never seen a butch do any of those things to femme women either (except the one that I did criticize).
In my experience (and I can't speak to anyone else's) butch women aren't criticized for toxic masculinity because most of them don't have or exhibit toxic masculinity. Butches aren't criticized for misogyny because they're usually not misogynists. My experience has been that butches who are mean or abusive are that way because of individual issues, not because they're butch. I have met a number of men who are mean or abusive only because being a man allows and encourages them to be.
I'm not going to lie, I spend a lot of time thinking about gender and sexuality and the patriarchy, so maybe it's not as deep as I'm making it out to be. Do you understand where I'm coming from though?
Yeah I understand where your coming from but let me tell you what I see from my life experience and maybe we can find a middle ground, ok here goes nothing.
So my aunt was in a relationship with a man where she had three kids, she eventually left him for a butch lesbian she is a nice person but they’re very sexual in front of everyone, I cannot prove it yet but I also have a feeling they have orgies with other women (that an important point I’ll circle back too) but from what I’ve seen in lesbian relationships, butch lesbians seem to be able to be with a girl solely for sexual pleasure and also be with other women at the same time, so there isn’t a man alive that is given those same freedoms in a relationship, I once saw a butch lesbians make out with another while her partner was beside her. So what I as man can conclude from this is that women in same sex relationships let go of all the guilt and shame they associated with heterosexual relationships and just try to experience as much pleasure as possible, that why I think women don’t get upset when a butch lesbian is just there for sex. I could be wrong be that’s how I see it.
Well given your experience I totally understand why that's your opinion of butch lesbians! It does seem unfair that the lesbians you've seen seem to have no guilt/jealousy/consequences for behavior that men would experience guilt/jealousy/consequences for.
I do think that there's something to the idea that "women in same sex relationships let go of all the guilt and shame they associated with heterosexual relationships". I know that after I realized that I was gay I then was able to realize that a lot of other things I thought about relationships wasn't working for me. Breaking down one societal rule makes it easier to break down others. Maybe that's why you've seen lesbians who are more sexually open/available to women? Realizing that they're gay made it easier to realize that they want an open relationship. I don't know, I wouldn't understand that either, but everybody's different.
Whatever the case, I can totally see where you're coming from. Please know that that's not universal for lesbians though, even butches. I know that if I had a girlfriend and she started making out with other women I would be very mad, and so would she if I did the same. It sucks that you've had negative experiences with lesbians, and I'm sorry about that.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience, I know that's not easy, especially with a stranger on the internet. And thank you for taking the time to talk, and for trying to understand. I had no idea that that was common among some lesbians, so I've learned something!
Well I think it’s common in all same sex relationship, like if you go on Grindr you will not find one guy that not open to hookups and same goes for lesbian dating websites, it seem that no one is picky because my guess is that in heterosexual relationship the standards is monogamy and childred, but in same sex relationships is more open experiences and exploring your body.
It just what I’ve observed when I was on dating websites bi sexual women didn’t what hookups with a guy only long term relationships, but when it came to women they where down for a hit it and quit it situation.
It’s kinda odd those women don’t see how hypocritical that is.
Feminists complaining about toxic masculinity has always struck me as absurd, since who has the power to eradicate it within a few generations?
Women do. It's very easy: Just don't make babies with toxic males.
"But... but... bad boys are sooo hot!"
Okay. But then shut up about toxic masculinity.
A butch lesbian tried to have sex with my mother. Inviting her to her home with champagne. Typical fuck boy strategy. My mom is married and has two kids. Who did this whore think she was? Female empowerment according to feminism this is. Not according to me!
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17Opinion
Butch lesbians are a very small minority so their toxic behavior doesn’t affect people as much as straight men’s toxic behavior.
I’m not saying straight men are inherently toxic, I’m referring to toxic behavior perpetrated by straight men.
How am I attributing bad behavior to just men? In my initial response I referred to toxic behavior from butch lesbians too.
Not all of them but some, yes. They’re usually okay.
And when you tell people you don’t like all women how do you say it? A quote would be appreciated, because if it’s anything like your usual schtick I can see why people think you’re a misogynist.
Again, do you have an exact quote?
Specific things you’ve said that people specifically called misogyny.
Did you explain your reasoning for it or elaborate with specific types of single mothers? Did you say anything about men who want to be single fathers? Because when I point out something wrong that some men do, you say something along the lines of “every behaviour that you think is toxic can be demonstrated in women too so I don’t think it makes sense to attribute bad behaviour to just men“.
Lol I posted a video of a women choosing to be a single mother because she could find a guy, it’s was pretty self explanatory. Another example was when I point out how hypocritical women are. Like for instance saying a man has no say in if she has an abortion but if she decides to have a baby he better pay for it. All that stuff makes me a misogynist somehow. But again that only because women are victims and your not allowed to criticize victims
I looked at your single mother post and no one called you a misogynist there. Anyway, if you want to criticize some women you should be fair and criticize some men too. If you only complain about one gender people will assume you have a bias against it, just like when a woman only complains about men.
You literally know no other men and are not aware of any other men in the world who do anything?
Men are more likely to kill and rob you, and you don’t even need the poor judgement to choose those kinds of men as partners first. But other men shouldn’t have to pose a direct threat to you before you criticize them- if you see a problem, you should speak up about it even if it’s not yours. It is unbelievably selfish to ignore wrongdoing that ruins other people’s lives because it didn’t personally ruin your life. You want me to care when other women are guilty of things that don’t hurt me but you think you shouldn’t have to care when other men are guilty of things that don’t hurt you? And you call us hypocrites.
Why should I care? I don’t deal with women, so apparently it’s fine if I don’t call them out. Don’t hold other people to a standard you don’t even try to meet.
You want me to acknowledge women’s toxic behavior even if it doesn’t hurt me. Meanwhile you “don’t deal with men” so you don’t speak out when they do something wrong. And our culture doesn’t tell women that men are useless except in extreme sects. It tells them that men aren’t necessary all the time or necessary for happiness.
Umm do you watch tv? I dare you to find a show where the mans life doesn’t immediately fall apart once the women leaves, And what’s sad is that you girls don’t even realize how brainwashed you are, you guys genuinely believe that your not disrespectful towards men but when we point it out you get all defensive.
Veep, BoJack Horseman, and Shameless (US). And there are even more I haven’t watched. Not to mention all the romantic shows, movies, books, and songs where getting a boyfriend or husband adds so much to a woman’s life and makes her happier. Even if your ridiculous generalization was true, it wouldn’t mean that our culture thinks men are useless. It would mean our culture sees men as dependent on romantic relationships.
So why do you keep watching your shows if they’re so unflattering to men and turn women against them?
If you think it’s that big of a deal then don’t support those actors and networks. And plenty of people in the US object to stereotypical depictions based on race, gender, sexuality, and more in the media because they know if affects people’s perception. There are countless articles, documentaries, books, and discussions about tropes like that and if you don’t see them you aren’t looking for them.
From a guy who’s so desperate to be a victim that he denies basic facts, that means nothing. So keep watching the shows that offend you. Keep ignoring the men you “don’t deal with”. And keep posting the same tired, senseless questions that allow you to spew your resentment on the Internet instead of actually working through it. Clearly you don’t want to be helped.
This would only be a big thing if there was a ton of butch lesbians running around and in my 25 years I have met...2... and it was mostly in passing.
can't comment seeing as I dont know any personally.
Dude who gives fuck what feminists think they are just man hater just ignore them if all men ignore these women it would be fine. They claim to be feminists and stand for equality then they spread anti male propaganda and still expect guys to join them. It’s like NO fuck off
Not sure where you got the idea tha tall "butch lesbians" do the things you claim they do. You sound excessively bitter. Why are you spending your time worrying about this?
This is not toxic masculinity, it's just toxic lesbians. Also this is a stereotype, of course not every butch is like this.
Like me I don't take them as men so I wouldn't apply that term to them , that people use on men.
A different term should be used like toxic butchilinity.
When I think about toxic masculinity I think about domestic violence, men abandoning the babies, men harassing woman in the work place. Butch woman don't really fall into that category. You talk about, sleeping around, there they come into it but most woman have husbands so majority woman will have a lot to say about men. The lesbian woman will have that complaint about a bunch. But they are in the minority so there voice isn't heard.
Yes toxic femininity when I think about that I think about the gold digger , mooching off of a man's hard labour. The manipulator, the one manipulating her man, who is always to blind to see it. The abuser, the man is literally her punching bag. The abandoner, abandons her family. The disabled , relies on her man for everything dragging him down in the process. The cheater , fucking everyone's man but her own. The sabotager, secretly sobotaging his every move , caution this one comes with poison in the tea. The list goes on...
Well today a girl posted a question about only wanting rich men and no one said her behaviour was toxic, if a man posted a question about wanting to beat up his wife do you think everyone would ignore. So have admit women don’t even get called out for there bad behaviour. So things are definitely not equal.
Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Well thing is you can't compare that two because it's too different. Compare a woman trying to kill her husband to a domestic violence case , would be more equal and both would get a lot of attention. I have been told that feminist is men and woman are equal. I have to disagree , we are different. So I can't really be a feminist.
@ninjafemme dude awesome new phrase
@Wowgirl30q you lying girl , I flirted with you , although I'm not a lesbian. That term was inspired by this question lmao.
If I were one I'd be with you I've told ya that I meant it
Nobody is back tracking here miss😃
I saw that on YouTube of a woman who did that , there was a story behind it , I don't remember now. Without the context of the story. Let's just say she cut off his dick, that is horrific and I certainly wasn't laughing when I saw that , I was shocked. That is not normal to do something like that , she must have mental issues. That is mutilation. And it's a shocking thing no doubt , I don't see it any lighter to a woman being mutilated. The only issue is if we take into account the statistics of how many men vs how many woman that do that. We have an issue.
I don't know don’t you think you might have a bias against men? Those women laughed because men can’t be victims of female abuse. Like if me and you got into a fight and you hit me and I hit you back, I’d be the one going to jail for abuse because apparently you can’t victimize me. So what makes you think you wouldn’t laugh if you’re taught that women can’t victimize men
Bias against men? I have love , admiration, empathy, sympathy for men. I do have my deep issues with men. But I think you have deep issues with woman as well. I don't think I would hit a man. For what reason. That's ludacris in the first place. How I can victimize you would be very hard for me... Like that woman she cut his penis off while he was sleeping , she is absolutely nuts , because what if that guy woke up and stabbed her. That bitch crazy. How did she even get the strength to cut it Lord knows , probably had to use a massive butcher knife.
Lol think about what you just said “I don’t think I would hit a man” meaning that you have entertained the idea, now let’s flip that imagine if men said “I don’t think I would hit a woman” would you be ok with men thinking there allowed to hit women? See our society raises us to treat each other differently so even though you feel like you have nothing but love for men you still have these bias that make you treat men differently, that all I’m saying.
Your taking my speech out of context , what did I say after that. Now you just fucking with me.
Because I can't say I would never hit , what if I'm getting hit and I need to defend myself. But in terms of me hitting a man , I've done that but playful. I've never hit a guy with the intention to cause bodily harm for no reason.
Ewww yourself. You sound like a whiny bitch grow some balls.
No body said be over sensitive , nut case.
No you need to hear what you are so you can change for the better. I have to sugar coat everything so that I don't offend you, I must give my balls to you.
Clearly you are offended, distressed, in pain, abused because of woman.
because toxic masculinity is a leftist extremist argument while LGBT is also. they can't be for onebut against the other or they're contradicting their own internal agenda.
There is no logic. A woman's brain runs on feelings and emotion. Logic doesn't even come into play.
The more a woman tries to be like a man the less desirable she is to them.
Why would a lesbian want to be desirable to men? I'm just asking.
Since you claim to value logic...
@MarketNews - they don't. Remember, they're trolling for women, not men. Why are you confused?
I'm just saying why they're so repulsive to men. And regular hetero women, which is 98% of the female population, are also confused by it, some thinking and wondering if it's okay to be like that. Should they emulate. I'm saying you can do whatever the fuck you want, but the more you try to be like that the less desirable you are to any man. If a man wants a man he goes for one. It's called homosexuality. A bull-dike isn't a good substitute, don't you agree?
Butch means a woman that dresses in masculine clothing and presents with more masculine than feminine features. It doesn't necessarily mean she's rude or aggressive.
If you think a woman with a short haircut that is tougher than most guys is not worse than what you call toxic masculinity you need a reality check lol
Because most women are into men thus more women get sleep with men. Numbers, thats all
a lot of them remind me of a fat justin bieber so i have to laugh every time i see them.
That's *internalized misogyny* though, so when they beat the shit out of each other as they so often do, it's still men's fault.
Looks like we need to finish gays first so we can get there..
I Hope we find peace before that and let people be what they want and love what they want. And stop hurting eachother
Lesbian women is so manly and butch that their parents named them all Butch
That's because feminists all either are or want to be with a butch lesbian.
I keed! I keed!
Because many women are dumb like that. Speaking about feminists and LGBTQ affiliates.
Their issue isn't with the masculinity, that's a scapegoat.
They have issue with anything male that they can try and stop.
Toxic people are never cool or attractive.
Wrong. They are mostly much nicer than toxic men.
@nixon1509 it's the MAGA guys who hate America because they hate most Americans
Oh it's coming. It's a matter of time.
Hating woman is the man's job, I guess 😂😂😂
That's because they're simply not MEN
Most women aren't lesbian
I'm straight
Nope radiat I guess.
Plus the fighting and such I don't fit a catagory. Most know bitch know I could probably beat them up and cross my legs after 😇
Hasn't went there yet... I've beat real men so I wouldn't count me out either
Don't know
And got her jaw broken by a man a week later
I heard sinse has retired MMA doesn't play pretend 😃
They're kind of hot
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