What kind of masculinity is not toxic for feminists?

[marish01]

I think theur issue is masculinity itself not just the "toxic" type of it.

[Anonymous]

Chivalry.

Particularly when it involves women.

According to Ms. Magazine, this is considered a "tool of the Patriarchy" and that it "contributes to a world in which women are not equal to men." They also go through the shady history behind it (as they like to do with everything they want to demonize), even though it has nothing to do with how it's preceived today.

The idea behind chivalry—at least today and imo—is simply to take joy in being courteous. Feminists think men only do it to women, but they forget that men also do it to other men, to the elderly, and to children.

They think men do it because they believe the persons they are being courteous to are weaker and less capable—thus, not equal to them. But they fail to understand that sometimes its just nice to have things done for you, even though you can clearly do them yourself.

Who tf thinks women are incapable of opening a goddamn door?

They also don't understand the natural male desire to want to be "protectors" and "providers." Men don't do it to show superiority... but I don't expect feminists today to be interested in what men feel, since they're too preoccupied with what they THINK men feel.

[MCheetah]

Bingo.

They hate male masculinity and want to replace it with femininity.
But they really just covet it, which is why their ideal of "sTrOnG fEmAlE cHaRaCtErS" are just butch dykes, who outclass all men at everything, acting like pseudo-alpha males, to begin with.

Or in simple language, they want to replace strong men and make them as weak as they see all women as. They think femininity and being a woman is a weakness/flaw.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Will never happen though.

[NicoletteXO]

It depends on the type of feminist.

While I don't consider myself one, I think it's pretty clear that there can be toxic masculinity, and toxic femininity.

Just as there can be healthy masculinity and healthy femininity.

A simple model to consider when understanding the difference is via archetypal psychology.

Some of the four major masculine archetypes are: The King, The Warrior, The Magician and the Lover. Each of these archetypes has its shadow, or toxic, aspects.

For instance, a man who embodies his King archetype is noble, respected, powerful and takes care of his Kingdom. But when this archetype turns toxic, he enters the shadow of the King, which is either The Tyrant or The Weakling. Adolf Hitler was a Tyrant King, for example. I won't go through each archetype, I'm sure you get the idea.

I think that it's important to acknowledge that humans can be toxic. Nobody is immune.

[marish01]

You explained it very well with your examples.

[NicoletteXO]

Thank you

[anon1903]

The kind that isn't afraid to cry. The kind that's not threatened by other guyscuz territorial issues. The kind that understands that a woman should have a bigger say in whether she's getting abortion or not. The kind that doesn't slut shame whether he gets laid or not. The kind that doesn't engage in gender wars. The kind that is sexual but not pussy whipped. The kind that blushes. The kind that tries to understand female language rather than calling them difficult and moving on. The kind that's worth risking everything for.

[marish01]

What if he thinks abortion is murder?
He should still say it is fine to kill the unborn?

[anon1903]

He should be with a woman who thinks the same.

[marish01]

Ok. I'm glad you didn't say he should foece himself to think it's fine to kill the unborn

[anon1903]

One mustn't change one's belief system just for other people's sake.

[Hallo626262]

I don't care about abortion but I should not be forced to pay if she CHOOSES to have a baby.

[TruthBringer]

Any form of "masculinity" that pedestalizes them and allows them to exploit men is not seen as toxic. So basically true masculinity is something they consider toxic, while at the same time ironically crave in a man.

Other than that. The term toxic masculinity is invented by women nobody wants to fuck, to describe the men they do want to fuck. I had shared the following video of Andrew Tate debunking toxic masculinity under another post, but the snowflake user decided to remove it lmfao. Andrew Tate debunks it perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/PlpFMTx4FHs

[Jamie05rhs]

This dude makes some great points!

[Mossberg500]

Neo-Feminism is honestly the most laughable 'movement' on the planet. A group of self-loathing bull-dykes that stand for nothing but the continued deterioration of our first world countries. However, one of the least impactful. Whereas 'politics,' the 'news,' 'entertainment,' and so called 'education' are the most.

[Sonorous]

I think that most feminists probably would want a man to be manly/masculine. But they just don't want the common "negative" traits associated with it. It's why I think they'd be completely okay with a submissive but masculine guy. Like a guy that's still very manly but he does what she says and acts how she wants him to. You see this stuff all of the time on films directed by or where the plot is heavily influenced by feminists/feminism.

[Sonorous]

And it's happening more and more frequently in dating & marriage where the guy must make concessions to keep the girl rather than them both being willing to compromise.

[SixFootSexy]

Modern feminists want equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. They want to vote, they don't want to go to war. They want men to treat them with benefits of traditional women (providing and protecting for them) without any of the responsibility.

[CrazyGirl2]

I disagree, I believe that the issue is the toxicity not the masculinity

[anylolone]

Then answer the question, which masculinity isn't toxic?

[CrazyGirl2]

@anylolone That’s no exactly a great response! If I say “that the issue is toxicity, NOT masculinity”, then by definition NO masculinity is toxic… So why would you ask what kind of masculinity IS toxic? People are toxic! Sure some will be men can be toxic, but still many, many more women are toxic. Given that no man has destroyed his wife’s prized belongings, trashed her car, or burned down the house, unlike female R&B artists have been advocating for twenty + years, if “your man steps out of line”! It’s just TOXIC,(Either Way)! See Lefty “Left Eye” Lopez, and Blu Cantrell et at…

[anylolone]

Oh, so you mean there's no toxic masculinity, just toxicity.
I wouldn't call those things just "toxic" I'd call those things violent crimes, but it makes sense.

[Jamie05rhs]

Actually, it isn't toxic to destroy a man's stuff if he cheats. He's just getting what he deserves.

[CrazyGirl2]

@Jamie05rhs Well under your logic, it’s not toxic ti hit a woman for “mouthing off” she’s just getting what she deserves! I mean if she just STFU, she’s be fine, right?

[Jamie05rhs]

@CrazyGirl2 No. That isn't correct at all. And the two things are not even comparable.

[CrazyGirl2]

@Jamie05rhs How are they not comparable? Burning someone’s hose down is an act of violence… What about the pets? What if someone was sleeping over, but she didn’t know when she set fire to his house? Nobody “Deserves” to have their worldly belongings stolen/destroyed because he doesn’t want to be with a woman anymore, or even if he cheated… lady, take your dignity and LEAVE HIM!. Also the courts agree, every case where a guy cheated on his girlfriend and she went on a shopping spree w/ his credit cards, or stole his clothes, jewelry cars, motorcycles etc was found liable for everything! There is NO “but he cheated on me” defense!

[Jamie05rhs]

@Crazygirl No; I'm saying the offensive actions are not comparable. Saying something that someone may not like to hear is not on the same level as cheating!

[CrazyGirl2]

@Jamie05rhs Okay, I agree. But I do not believe that men have this unique quality called toxicity! We women can be pretty effing toxic at times, that’s all I’m saying! I love guys, I think guys are awesome, and I’m getting really sick and tired of people today shitting all over men, as if women are just models of perfection. That’s all I meant, that the male /female bullshìt flows both ways!

[Jamie05rhs]

Oh, okay; cool. I understand what you're saying.

[CrazyGirl2]

@Jamie05rhs ok, cool.

[anylolone]

@Jamie05rhs How it's not toxic to destroy someone's property due to cheating (or suspicion of cheating) and how's that not comparable to hitting someone?

[Jamie05rhs]

@anylolone It's not toxic. It's psycho. But it's justified.

But let's assume she did her research and got proof that he actually cheated.

[anylolone]

@Jamie05rhs How is it justified?

Doesn't matter, I was cheated on, in none of the occasions I had the urge or need to destroy anything of them.

I don't know if you know this, but psycho is worst than toxic.

[Jamie05rhs]

@anylolone It's justified because he should have been faithful. When people cheat, there need to be consequences. There needs to be some sort of deterrent.

[anylolone]

@Jamie05rhs And? With that sort of mentality you can justify anything.
All you are trying to do is justify a violence offense against a non-violent action.

[CrazyGirl2]

@Jamie05rhs It’s NOT Justified, and fucking someone else when you have a girlfriend, does NOT mean you deserve to have all your belongings stolen or destroyed! Look, of the three of us, I’m the only one who’s a woman… and I HAVE been cheated on! That gave me the right to leave him, it gave me the right to NEVER speak to him again, it gave me the right to eat a pint of cookie dough, or even better, chocolate ice cream… It DOES NOT give me the right to charge up his credit cards, trash his car, steal his jewelry or watches, and burn his effing house down (like R&B singer “Left eye” Lopez DID)! Like I said earlier… Take your dignity, and go home! There will be other guys, but a prison sentence for arson is not MY idea of justice… also, every single penny I steal from him, or charge on his credit cards, I will have to repay, because AGAIN… there is no “but he cheated on me” defense in court!

[Anonymous]

There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity" or "toxic femininity", only toxic behavior, and both men and women do it.

Attributing it to one gender or the other is the kind of bullshit divisiveness that we have disgusting feminists and MGTOWs to thank for.

[Kaneki05]

Masculinity that don't force other's there will onto other people. You can be macho that's fine but there is no need to tell other's to be so and shame them for not been so.

[WowwGirl]

None it's ridiculous. They want to turn men into chicks. Then complain how their men are pussies.

[007kingifrit]

they just hate all men unless they're wimps... and even then...

[jshm2]

None.

Snowflake feminism just needs to get it's act together and stop thinking it's the 60's. The world is moving on faster than them

[_no_one_]

They just prefer to blame specific terminology for their problems and do nothing about it but propagate misinformation and their half-assed thoughts to those who build their life on them.

[ohshee]

It seems like no days off him and his having attitude and they had to prove that they're bigger and better and Boulder I just keep walking

[BillyBalls]

Only masculine males without a penis or testicles in nontoxic.

[NicoletteXO]

Lol.

[Anonymous]

It's a power game designed to push forward their views over anyone elses. Not personal, they just want to win. And if they do, they'll choose something else. That's what activists do.

[bamesjond0069]

The masculinity that is crying, wearing dresses, not being competitive, and always obeying women. Smh. Aka not masculinity at all.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Not being able to recognise and accept that there is toxic masculinity is toxic

[MCheetah]

Then what do you call toxic femininity? (Besides calling it "feminism"?) If anything, women are catty, mean, spiteful, and backstabbing to each other more than men are, making them the more "toxic" gender out there. And yet feminists never say jack shit about this. Not that feminists are worth listening to anyway; they're literally some of stupidest people on planet Earth. Down there with Flat Earthers.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@MCheetah there's such thing as toxic femininity too. Though difference is it's not ingrained into human culture and often affects just woman whereas toxic masculinity affects everyone.

[MCheetah]

That's such crap and just a way to excuse women from any accountability. Not surprising. You're telling me mean girls in high school, general gossip from suburban housewives, and cancel culture isn't ingrained into society and doesn't affect men and women?

This is why I hate feminism.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@MCheetah I meant to say it's not as ingrained. Toxic masculinity is encouraged. Nobody is really encouraged to gossip or be a shitty person

[MCheetah]

"Toxic masculinity is encouraged."

Again, that's completely false.
Also, women are encouraged to act sh*tty to other women in order to "fit in" with the cool girls, all the time!

[Razp_Sorbet]

@MCheetah bullshit? "Boys will be boys" "men don't cry" "man up".

[Razp_Sorbet]

@MCheetah also like I said toxic femininity almost always only affects women. Not men and women as toxic masculinity does.

[MCheetah]

"Boys will be boys" "men don't cry"
Again, nobody actually says this sh*t. It's not the 1950s.

And "man up" is the only one that makes sense, because crying and being a little baby doesn't solve anything and doesn't help anyone, yourself or others. Women aren't expected to have to be brave or fix anything in society at any given time, so this doesn't apply to them. You're trying to use female logic and rules on men, which is the very failure of your argument. Men are not women, so what works for you, a woman, won't work for men.

Let's just agree to disagree here, as we seem to be worlds apart when it comes to seeing society. I don't look at everything through the lens of "does it make a middle-class, First World white woman slightly uncomfortable?"

[Razp_Sorbet]

@MCheetah you just explained toxic masculinity, complained about it and still think it's not real. ☺️ Interesting

[MCheetah]

The thing that's not "real" is the "toxic" part.
We don't need anyone "womansplaining" on how men should act and behave and why it's "wrong" according to 5-10% of women in society (feminists).
You're basically complaining about masculinity in general and want all men to be crying, overemotional pussies with no backbone or an ounce of bravery, because it's what suits a small minority of insecure women in the world.

Like I said, let's just agree that we disagree, here.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@MCheetah I mean sure whatever, we can agree to disagree, not like to changes anything at all. ☺️

[Anonymous]

Bingo. You are completely correct. They want to be the masculine ones and they dont want to compete with nature. Then they claim that their homosexuality is completely normal

[Anonymous]

Just reword your question, use narcissism instead of masculinity. Then you got the just of toxicity. Relationships are a 2 way thing. Respect for respects. Media teaches toxic narcissism is healthy, its. not. lifes to short to not enjoy happiness..

[Anonymous]

None because they want to kill all men, feminism is a branch of the liberal tree, the same liberals who believe in magic money tree

[Anonymous]

According to feminists, anything traditionally male, is toxic, evil, and must be destroyed.

[Opinion Owner]

I think the only men feminists approve of are ftm trans men, and mtf trans women.