When will feminists finally confess that too many women are attracted to abusive men?

[Anonymous]

I’m asking this question in response to a girl who posted a question about how her boyfriend threatened to beat her just because she wanted to attend a bday party. She claims she did nothing to provoke him or ever threatened violence herself.

I’ve seen this asked on GAG several times before and I would post links to this if I could (I’m not Xper 3 yet).

But here is a common cycle:

Girl meets guy who seeks he has an “edge” > she is attracted to him and falls for him quickly > he starts throwing slights and insults, loses his temper often > girls rationalizes his controlling behavior is “love” and it secretly turns her on even more > guy threatens violence and/or breaks things around her over something trivial > girl gets scared but STILL tries to rationalize it thinking he will “change” > guy may apologize and briefly improve his behavior > guy one day loses it and hits her with minor or no provocation > girl may or may not leave. Yet she STILL tries to rationalize his bullshit because she sees him as a “challenge” > things get better for a while but then he does it again > girl finally leaves and she might even taken a trip or two the hospital > after intense support from family and society girl might recover BUT she has a deep seated fear and mistrust in men. She often says “I never want to be in relationship again” She might become a feminist because the male bashing she hears from that group feels like support.

BUT ALL OF THIS ABUSE COULD OF BEEN AVOIDED IF SHE LEFT HIM THE FIRST TIME HE LOST IT.

During all this time she likely passed up several opportunities with “nice guys” who would never do that shit. But she rather be abused than bored. It makes her feel more alive.

Point I need to ask again. Why won’t feminists ever own up to this this feminine mental quirk?

Now I know there are plenty of women who would never tolerate that crap. But still in modern day there are too many that do and even secretly welcome it. I have no sympathy for them.

[Anonymous]

I have been in 3 relationships, and only one of the guys was abusive. I no longer with any of the 3 guys. Yet, I do know one thing I dislike the feminist movement. It feel wrong some how. The 2 good guys I dated one moved over seas, and we broke up. The other was very sick and didn't want me to watch him die. So he broke up with me. He passed away, 2 months later. I just wish he had let me stay by his side for the last to months. Yet, I think he knew how badly it effected me, see him like that, so he broke up with me. The loser I dated hit me 2 times. First time he grabbed my hand really hard making it go red, which I was about break up with him then and there. Yet, he said he was sorry, and to give him a second chance. I believe everyone deserves a second chance, so when he grabbed my arm very hard and left it red. I broke up with him for good. I had a bruise on my from that, but I never knew he was like that, I have dated 3 guys and 2 of the were good relationship, I would still be in if things had been different. The bad relationship, I just see him as a bump in the road to finding the right guy. So it's really about trial and error. Some guys are a hit others will be misses, but I am not going to stop dating or I will never know if the guy I turned down was the right guy.

[Asker]

What initially turned you about the abusive guy? Be honest please.

[Vmm90]

Abuse is a very tricky subject. It is not nearly as cut and dry as one thinks it is.

One of the most predominant things that occurs is the formation of a trauma bond. This makes it harder to leave. Ever heard of Stockholm syndrome?

Statically speaking on average it takes 7 tries to finally leave these situations. As well there are a lot of barriers to leaving as well.

I wouldn't go so far as to say women intentionally like these types of men because they can be incredibly sweet, kind and caring in the beginning. They come across as the nice guy. Once the person has become attached that is when things switch.

No one would want to think someone they love would treat them that way. It is also difficult for someone to come forward about this as well.

Telling someone to leave as much as there are good intentions behind it, never works.

[Asker]

There is usually a danger element in these guys women can sense but believe will never be used against them. But it usually is. Yeah these guys can act sweet but their are usually early signs he’s dangerous but that excites many women. They mistake that as manly and alpha when it reality is extreme insecurity that comes out in the worst way possible.

[Vmm90]

As someone who has been emotionally abused twice, I can assure you neither time did I sense a form of danger in either of them. It was a matter of them saying all of the right things in the beginning to get you attached.

You also need to account for personality as well. I have mentioned in other posts as well, such as sociopaths, or personality disorders such as narcissism.

It is not or ever will be a cut and dry topic. It is complex in its nature.

There is always the "honey moon" phase with these types of individuals as well as a circle of violence if you will. Where the abuser may do something and then enter into a phase where they shower you with affection before going back to abusing you.

As I mentioned before, there is a trauma bond with this person. It is an unhealthy attachment that makes leaving harder and it remains hard afterwards as well.

[Asker]

I know it’s not a cut and dry subject. But women who get abused often (but not always) go feminist for support. They tend to generalize negative stereotypes towards all men. But these women often passed up several opportunities to date men who are never like that. But they were too nice and “boring”.

However I will agree with that men get stuck in abusive relationships but for different reasons. Initial dating is much tougher for us when all else is equal. Going back to the drawing board is a huge pain the ass. Most of us don’t have tons tons of women approaching us and swiping right on dating apps. This only gets worse as we age. Also guys get much less sympathy for complaining about sometimes very real abuse (physical, emotional and financial) women can put men through. We are considered “weak” if we don’t check women. Also women get more leeway to do this crap because it’s considered a “shit test”. Some guys get the lines blurred if it’s a shit test or actual real abuse. I saw my dad go endure this crap growing up. My mom was extremely controlling and sometimes violent (hit him over the head with a mag light flashlight one time). But she was his dream girl back in HS and although he’s above average income earner he’s not rich. If he divorces her chances are he will be single for his remaining years. My mother on the otherhand is still attractive for her age. Lonely old men will approach her.

I don’t want to be misogynistic and “blaming the victim”. But women accept abuse for different reasons then men. 99.99% of guys don’t enjoy psycho bitchy women. But a unacceptable percentage of women do tolerate violent asshole guys because they see it as a “challenge” to change them. That bs has to stop. No one wins.

[Vmm90]

I wholeheartedly think that there needs to be more support for men who have experienced abuse. Regardless of gender no one should ever have to go through it.

Perhaps a reason people get stuck in these types of relationships is due to the inaccessibility to help.

I myself know that before I enter into another relationship I have to essentially retrain my brain on how it thinks.

Our own sense of self can play a part in the types of relationships we end up in. If you dont made how you deserve better you may think you deserve it because the person abusing you has caused you to have those types of thoughts.

To some degree there are individuals out there who see it as a challenge to get someone to change, others may think if they show love and compassion they'll see their worth etc.

There is a lot that could be said on this subject and it is highly individualized. No two women will share the exact same experience or have the same outcomes.

[Asker]

I appreciate you wanting to support men who have endured abuse. But this is also not a cut and dry subject. Men who have been victimized by women unfortunately carry a “beta” stigma that can lead to less respect. There is a Freudian reason we have to be more stoic. If we lose respect we lose value when we lose value we are less attractive to women. Many women will deny this on the surface. However the only time it’s acceptable for a man to show vulnerability is when he has overcome it and but mentions what he went through in the past. When one of my ex gfs a few years ago ghosted me after 9 months of dating with no warning I knew I had to be tight lipped about what that did to me. I actually got some asshole comments from other women that “I must of did something” and other guys were like “well that’s what happens when you date a 21 yr old”. Not all women were like that but sharing that to a potential new partner wouldn’t bode well.

That’s not “abuse” per se but it was pretty shitty. But women often complain about past problems and abuse they have taken from ex bfs to new guys they are seeing. Guys do have a limit of tolerance on that too but it’s a much higher limit.

Anyway the biggest issue I have is feminists making generalized and disparaging assumptions about men when many of them dove head first in the pit years ago. They can organize and openly complain. Guys who do that look pathetic.

[Vmm90]

I hear what you're saying and you are absolutely correct it is not cut and dry either.

Men have been taught that they're supposed to put up with it and essentially deny their experiences and emotions to others and deal with it themselves. I dont agree with this, I believe we need to create and acceptance and remove the stigma.

I am very passionate about domestic violence and intimate partner violence. It happens to both genders.

As for ghosting, it's a form of psychological abuse if you think about it. You literally leave without warning, leaving someone confused, hurt and wondering what they did wrong. I dont believe that should ever be a norm on how to treat someone. I could tell you all the live long day that it is a reflection on them and not you but it's hard to see in those moments.

For someone to say that you must have done something is very wrong and gender biased.

I will admit my last partner, I told him about my abuse but gave him an out because it he didn't want to deal with my triggers I respected that.

[Asker]

You have been thoughtful on this. The problem is this can not be equally applied to men vs women. My perspective for women enduring abuse obvious illusions may differ than how you dealt with it.

As for my ex I wasn’t completely surprised but I was disappointed. I knew she was capable of that but I was hoping she would of done better. She’s not the worst I’ve taken. My girlfriend before her did something heinously callous a few weeks after we split up. It haunted me for a very long time. All I wanted was closure but she blocked me out.

However I have re evaluated my own behavior in dating over the years. My role model for a woman was my mother who was a very bad example. Like my dad I just thought being “nice” and tolerating unacceptable abuse is what’s normal for a man in a relationship. It is what women “want”. As I got older I know nothing is further from the truth. So I’ve had to change and overcome some of my self sabotaging tendencies. It has not been easy. I do have a lot of hang ups like you mentioned below. I feel like I have to be constantly on my guard to avoid being screwed over for being a “nice guy”. It’s agonizing at times but I’m not going to give up.

[Vmm90]

I have enjoyed this conversation. I value the opinion of the opposite sex.

No person whether Male or female should ever have to endure abusive behavior. And you're absolutely right, our parents do set an example of a relationship and how it looks.

It does take a lot of strength to look into yourself and see how you act in a relationship and analyze it. Not everyone will do that.

Please don't ever give up, someone will be very lucky to have you in their life, just make sure they dont take advantage of that.

[Asker]

I’ve had to put up some boundaries including a very real one with my mother. Not easy. But thank you and I enjoyed our conversation as well.

[Vmm90]

It is never easy to set a boundary with family but at the end of the day, you have to take care of yourself.

I'm glad that you have found the strength to make such a difficult call.

[TheFlak38]

Women love to be abused. It's a fact. If you give a woman freedom she will hate you for it and then replace you with someone who will abuse her again. The same feminists are in love with muslims who want to cover women with burqas and treat them as sex slaves. This way the ugly pink-haired feminist can cover up all beautiful women on one hand and on the other hand hide her own ugly face and still get banged by muslim incel.

[Derekk]

I don't think feminists would argue to the contrary. Most would probably say that the reason some women are attracted to those kinds of men comes from social attitudes about what is expected of men and women. Or think about the Disney cliche of meeting a "bad boy" that she can "conquer". Any kind of social narrative like that would have feminists on it like flies to honey.

[Asker]

Alladdin didn’t beat up or abuse Jasmine. The beast did lose his temper but never physically harmed nor threaten to harm belle.

No I don’t buy the “societal” conditioning theory. Bullshit. This is DNA thing many women are unfortunately born with. Some can be influenced by a very good upbringing no doubt. But still women have this quirk.

[ColHathi]

Men have that quirk too, though. You probably just don't hear about it as much. I bet you a lot of those guys that are getting abused and who keeps going back to those women, don't talk about it or don't make as big a deal out of it because they're ashamed. There probably aren't as many physically abusive women around either because of the way that women are being brought up.

[Asker]

@ColHathi I agree men do as well. My father is one of them. He’s afraid to leave my mother (and she’s gotten very violet with him) because he will likely die alone. Also male victims are often scoffed at for being “weak”.

But in the initial stages a controlling man is much more attractive to women than vice versa. Women mistake that bs as strong masculine energy. However men sure as hell don’t see abusive women as “feminine”. But dating is tougher for us so we are afraid of leaving and going back to square one.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately it is true that some women get themselves in cycles, possibly their first partner was abusive and when she meets someone new who is similar there is a level of comfort coursing the pattern to continue.
It could also be due to lower esteem, and therefore she believes she can't do any better... she could just like the thrill...

It isn't a feminine quirk though, it is something that I've seen in guys where they date abusive women and are stuck in similar cycles...
And either way, the amuse isn't always physical, my ex used more psychological warfare when he wanted something (making me feel guilty for being upset for example).
As someone who went though weeks of counselling, and still have some of he mental scars, it is very hard to break this pattern and in some cases blaming the abused for making a bad choice will only lead them to retaliate and try and defend their choice as a coping mechanism... only they can make the choice that they want out...

[Asker]

I responded to my thoughts on men vs. women being stuck in abusive relationships above. Yes it’s true men get stuck in these but is for different reasons. It’s much tougher for most guys to find a relationship quickly vs a woman. But the details are above.

[Opinion Owner]

So you argue feminists are made by being hit and then going off men?

And second, it might be avoided if she leaves the relationship but it isn't always that easy... the point I'm making is it isn't as easy as just walking away... if it was then everything would be fine all the dam time... but no, life sucks dude...

[Asker]

You don’t see men organizing into a concerted effort and complaining after a few of them got hurt.

[Opinion Owner]

I have, but that's besides the point...
What exactly is your problem really? You a nice guy having a bad time getting a date?

[Asker]

My motivation to ask this question is from this post I saw earlier. It’s titled “is my boyfriend intentionally abusive”. Search for it on gag because I can’t post links here yet (I’m new)

She isn’t the first girl I’ve seen post a question like this on GAG. Her boyfriend explicitly threatened violence with no provocation and yet she’s still with him. I’ve also seen women post questions that “controlling men are sexy” which is disgusting.

You don’t see guys posting questions/takes saying “psycho bitches are hot” or finding a way to rationalize abusive behavior such as cheating, financial infidelity or even physical violence. If they do post they often get ridiculed for being weak for tolerating it. But women definitely have power to harm men physical or not.

I know this ties into the whole nice guy vs asshole dichotomy. However that’s a very deep rabbit hole I don’t want to go down. Yes I’m a nice guy but I have drawn the line on a few women when they crossed it. I once ghosted a girl because she never said “thank you” whenever I bought her meals, gifts, yet. I hate freeloaders.

But the biggest point I’m trying to make it is I’m sick and disgusted of women (and sometimes men) who stick around in abusive sometimes dangerous relationships. They think they can “change” the guy but a tiger can’t change its stripes. When they finally do get out of it they leave battered and that gives radical feminists more ammo to attack men. But when the writing is on the fucking wall and they STICK AROUND to get hurt it’s a two way street.

[Opinion Owner]

And my point is, it is not always easy just to say "sorry, I'm leaving, it isn't working out", so saying that people should just leave them, is kind of like telling someone with serious depression to "lighten up", someone with anxiety to "just relax" or even someone who has broken their legs to "just get up and stop being lazy"...
The issue I have isn't you saying it happens, it does often, but it isn't and there is a lot more going on in most cases... I can't defend the women that say they enjoy the abuse as that is a completely different problem, but often the situation makes it hard for people to just leave

[Asker]

A woman will get a lot more support and leeway to be bitter after getting out of an abusive relationship vs a man. Guys will be more patient with her than vice versa (in general). She can also broadcast her feelings and go as far as joining women’s rights marches and screaming about the evils of men. Men can’t do that or they are labeled pathetic incels. Even on GAG I see females who post getting much more support than men do. Guy’s are supposed to figure things out and take action early. If they don’t their just SAPs.

Anyway I know I’m going off on the gender wars here. I’m not a misogynist. I’ve met decent women and I know not all them are that stupid to chase abusive assholes. BUT I’m fed up with women who go after guys that treat them like shit, finally leave battered and then turn around and blame men for everything. If a girl seriously threatened me with violence, groundless legal action or some sort of emotional blackmail (my last girlfriend threatened suicide when I broke up with her) I draw the line and leave. I don’t stick around and try to fix a fundamentally broken and often dangerous problem. I don’t enjoy the “challenge” of changing a bitchy woman. But too many women get off on that highly risky challenge. If you jump into that and don’t leave you are to blame.

[Opinion Owner]

I agree that women chasing assholes is their own fault often, if they like "badboys" expect the result.
I'm defensive about this as my sister was stuck in a abusive relationship which I tried to take her out off and she wasn't sure as half her mates were telling her she was making stuff up or she is being silly... it was very hard to watch her suffer, and I tried my best to help her but this guy was making her believe it was all her. She has got out of that eventually, but after a couple of years the scars are still there.
When she did leave him, she got little to no support from anyone else :/ just telling her to leave him as he was no good caused multiple massive fights, as she didn't want to hear it at the time and it made it worse... but she generally believed that she deserved that treatment...

There is many women that need to stop chasing after guys that are bad from them, but ones that have been broken like that struggle and dont always have the help needed

[Asker]

Women who do this result in a lose lose lose all the way around:

- they get screwed over
- decent nice guys get passed up and ignored.
- assholes get rewarded for their behavior and continue to do what works.

At the end of the day it’s all about a woman’s “emotions”’. If she wants to be an idiot a chase self destruction be my guest. But the issue I have is how they turn around and try to blame all men and “patriarchy”. Bullshit. At least 50 percent of all problems women have are self created.

[Asker]

Anyway that’s good you supported my your sister. My brother warned me that my ex (that seriously threatened suicide) looked at me as her “savior”. Deep down I knew that. She was a good person but came from a very VERY screwed up family (she was sexually abused). I didn’t disqualify her right away for it. But if the ramifications of that would impact her. If it impact her it would impact me. When I broke up with her (tactfully) she went berserk and which literally confirmed that I made the right choice.

But anyway

[BreakingSound]

Okaaay.

1. What the fuck does the trope of women seeking dramatic relationships have to do with feminism?

2. Fine. I'm a feminist and some women are broken fucking bitches who would yes, rather deal with an exciting, dramatic, abusive man than a milquetoast one who lets her walk all over him. Does it make a whole lot of sense? No, but these women are b-r-o-k-e-n.

3. Again, what the fuck does that have to do with feminism?