3 Reasons Why We Shouldn't Exercise The Same Way

[Anonymous]

My Background in Fitness :

- Degree in Kinesiology (study of exercise science )

- Certificate of Profiency in Nutrition

- Read ACSM , NSCA, & NASM personal training materials

- Independant Learning using advanced materials used in Physical Therapy programs & the graduate levels of Kinesiology

- Athlete for 4 years in high school

- 9 years of lifting experience

A common myth in the gym is :

There's a single correct way everyone has to do (insert exercise)

This isn't true for 3 reasons:

1. Everyone's Bone & Joint Structure Is Different

The motions someone can do and positions they can hold safely are determined by their bones and joint structure. This can vary widely between people depending on which variations your talking about. Depending on the variation it could dramatically change what's safe to do exercise wise.

The same exercise technique and range of motion that's appropriate for one person could seriously injure someone else. How likely you are to get injured performing exercises working against their structure & joint capabilities depends on the person and technique performed.

(Left: Knock Knees, Middle : Normal, Right: Bow Legged)

Some won't get an injury anywhere from a few weeks, or couple months, a couple years, or not see effects until 20 years after they stop, and some don't any harmful effects.

For simplicity they teach you the "anatomically correct" version of human anatomy in personal training materials and early Kinesiology courses. In the advanced or professional program's anatomy materials you learn about anatomical variations.

Depending on the bones, ligaments, or tendons your talking about, anywhere from close to 50% down to 10% of people won't be "anatomically correct" in that category.

For example, close to 40% of people don't have anatomically correct hip sockets.

(Femur variations, keep in mind hip socket location can vary too)

Most people will be normal in at least 1 category but highly unlikely to be normal in a bunch of them.

Lets say for simplicity you have a 70% percent chance of being normal in each joint. This is how you find out how good your chances are...

(pay attention to the bold)

1 Joint being normal : 0.7 = 70% = 7 out of 10 people

5 Normal Joints : 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7 = .16807 = 16.8% ~ 1 out of 6 people

10 Normal Joints : ( 0.7 ) ^ 10 = 0.0282475249 = 2.8% ~ 1 out of 35 people

14 Normal Joints : (0.7) ^ 14 = 0.00678223072849 = 0.68% ~ 1 out of 147 people

It's even more complicated when you consider that having one variation at one joint can cause other variations at the joints above and below them. Also joints like (and not limited to) the shoulder, knee, wrist, and ankle are commonly oversimplified as 1 joint when they're actually made up of multiple joints each with their own considerations.

2. The (ROM) Range of Motion your muscles can safely control in that particular exercise technique Is Determined By Your Current Capabilities

The bone structure variations determine your potential max ROM (Passive Range of Motion) and kind of positions you can hold. The current max ROM (Active Range of Motion) you can safely do is determined by muscles, tendons, & ligaments. Your body has protective mechanisms to prevent going past the safe ROM, you just need to use them.

Most people go past this range of motion because they don't know their doing it. You may not even feel pain until it's too late and you have an injury. It depends on the person.

The current safe range of motion (Active Range Of Motion) for that exercise technique can be limited by:

- Muscle Strength In The ROM ( your muscles might not be strong enough at a certain part of the ROM )

- Muscular imbalances or Flexibility (which is when one muscle is really tight which limits how much it can stretch

- Fatigue ( the safe ROM changes as you go from the fresh first reps to the tiring last reps )

- Weight Lifted ( the heavier the resistance the less ROM your protective reflexes will allow)

- Bone Structure ( the current safe ROM at the most can only be at least little shorter than the max ROM allowed by the bone structure)

This can vary between people due to their progression rate and their unique anatomy.

3. How you do an exercise can change dramatically depending on the goal

These all effect what the exercise will work, how it will work, and how effective it is for a given goal:

- The body position you use

- The angle your body parts are rotated

- The motion you use

- The range of motion used

- Which body parts move or stay stationary

- Whether or not you use momentum

- Direction of the resistance

- Location of the resistance

- Distance between the resistance and joints worked

- Location of your center of mass and your base of support (center of mass has to be over base of support to stay balanced)

- Speed you perform the exercise

- Your individual body segment proportions

- Your individual bone structure

- The angle you pull or push the resistance

- Type of resistance used

You can change all these variables to make a custom exercise meant for a specific individual and goal in mind.

(The longer the orange and blue lines, the more torque that joint feels, notice how someone with longer femurs has to lean over more to stay balanced. (keeping the center of mass over base of support) )

Someone with certain proportions wouldn't be able to do a squat the "textbook way" a lot teach and I was taught in school and personal training certs. That is with the chest up and torso leaning at 45° the whole way down. These variations in proportions are common.

Also the short torso long femur person would feel mainly glutes(butt) working while the short femur long torso person would feel mostly quads working for the same exercise.

Some of these variables like (and not limited to) body proportions, location, direction , & distance of resistance can make certain exercise techniques impossible to do for certain people. It can actually make it mandatory to "cheat" or compensate with unwanted movements.

What generally happens is people hear of a couple of specific ways an exercise is performed and think that is the "right" way to do it. Or they see a bodybuilder or power lifter do it a certain way and think that's how (insert exercise) needs to be done.

Ignore the myths that say there's a single correct preset ROM or way for everyone to do an exercise

... always bench to your chest, ...keep elbows in / out during bench press, ... always squat ass to grass, ... always squat to parallel..., ... use "full range of motion" everyone should do, ...squat feet forward , ... momentum is always bad

Realistically there's infinitely number of ways to do a lot exercises if you change the variables I listed earlier. It just depends on what you want to work.

However there are unsafe ways to do an exercise. What's unsafe could be a general safety issue or could be specific to your unique anatomy.

For instance someone with higher or lower angle the forearm sticks out from the elbow (elbow carrying angle) will feel wrist pain doing straight bar curls and feel comfortable using the EZ Curl bar instead. Being higher is more common in girls.

This because to grip the straight bar, those people would have to bend their wrists to the side to hold the bar instead of it being right in front of their forearm.

Instead of the weight being equally distributed between the sides of the wrist where the ligaments on the side balance out the resistance, one side's ligaments are being stretched while the other is compressed and have the weight of the bar unevenly distributed so one of their ligaments feels extra torque to overcome. Which causes pain and potential injury.

Putting it all together :

As mentioned before, the person's (Point 1 ) unique structure and (Point 2 ) current capabilities determine what is safe for them to do exercise wise. You take that into account, if the way to do the exercise violates their structure or capabilities then it's not appropriate for them.

In that case, to accomplish the goal, you may have to adjust some of the variables to fit the exercise to the person, you may have to wait until the person progresses enough to do the exercise technique, or you need to scratch the exercise from the program completely and use a different method for that person's goal. It depends on the circumstances.

So remember, the person doesn't adjust to the exercise, you need to adjust the exercises to the person. :)

[Phoenix98]

I do agree with what your saying overall you can train most people the same by changing up exercises that work the same muscles.

like if someone can't do squats then have them do leg press or work with quadriceps curls. You can still train them more or less the same you just have to find exercises that work the muscle as hard or the same way but are more suited for the individual.

Flexibility though is something that can greatly help with the range of motion in some instances and can actually help some people do a certain exercise more easily.

It's important to note that there are several exercises that the vast majority of people are capable of doing and actually do regardless of their bone structure and body type. Such as benching, dead lifts and squats.

For instance your little stick man squat picture you can get the right stance and movement by simply adjusting the body to have the right stance and posture for the exercise it's not impossible with either body type I've seen both long legs short torso and short legs long torso types do it quite a few time in fact and they did it very well.

Source.

10 years fitness and training experience

Worked in a gym for 2-3 years

Was an athlete for several years s well.

10 years martial arts experience ( listed it because of flexibility and fitness related stuff it helps with )

Professional Training/Nutritional Degree/Certification from the International Sports Science Association.

[myTake Owner]

I agree with you.

For adjusting their (long femur short torsos) position to squat upright,

I know you can widen their stance and turn their feet out so they can stay upright. It just wasn't included. I accidentally left out the "feet under the hips" or "feet shoulder width apart" as the "correct squat technique" when I said it would be impossible for them to do while keeping their torso upright.

Generally speaking people with disadvantages proportions for certain exercises can usually do them , if they are adjusted correctly.

[Anonymous]

Great Take 👍😊 very insightful. It's a great read. I love exercising , and I learned some things I wasn't aware of. Thanks for this 👍

[Anonymous]

Be very wary of someone who says everyone is capable of doing the same exercises or at the same intensity or the same exact way equally. They are probably going to mess you or someone else up very badly.

Structurally you have just to compare someone who is 6'5 doing a deep weighted squat to someone who is 5'5, and doing the same thing. At 5'5, how far do you have to bend down? You can maintain the correct stance no problem if you are healthy, but if you are 6'5, and you deep squat, you've got a much longer distance to bend, and due to height, it takes you longer to do it putting more pressure on certain parts of the body that the 5'5 person may not experience.

[GraveTruth]

Everytime I meet a guy into the massive amount of science of working out I find that they work out their mouth a lot but have little to no motivation for lifting without quiting.

Working out and getting into shape is not a giant science. You can learn everything in the world and it'll save you one month of working out per year on a normal guy without the science as long as he's not dong stupid stuff like eating candy all day long.

[myTake Owner]

I find the guys who don't talk about the science of working out are the ones spreading the most misinformation to people.

[Bananaman177]

That's weird, I already knew all this, but I never went to school for it and I don't recall actually "learning" any of it, but none of this is new to me...

[myTake Owner]

You do realize this is the tip of the iceberg and A LOT wasn't included.

[Bananaman177]

Oh, good. Okay. Seemed strange. And SCREW you two chicks who disliked me, sorry, lots of people probably know this.

I'm just saying, this guy went to great pains to list all his fancy credentials and then he didn't teach me nothing. Sorry, but I found that a bit validating. I study this as a mere amateur. So there.

[myTake Owner]

I mentioned my degree to establish credibility. Most of the posters in fitness here have no clue what their talking about. I have to make it clear I'm not one of them.

[Bananaman177]

Yeah, fine. Good job. Actually, your information would have stood out on it's own. Great stuff.

[myTake Owner]

Thanks :) haha

[BluesBoy]

No one ever denied that you need to find the stance, grip and so on that suits you.

That being said, there is no reason for not hitting paralel into the squat, deadlift and benching and doing OHP except laziness.

[myTake Owner]

For a specific stance or position , among trainers and coaches this happens 30 - 40% of the time. Among recreational lifters who are teaching other people it happens more frequently.

For a preset ROM your supposed to (or be able to ) do without regarding the individual's anatomical structure and current capabilities, depending on the exercise it can happen most of the time.

It seems your assuming there aren't anatomical and individualistic progression factors that can limit someone's range of motion to do an exercise safely.

For instance most recreational lifters think your supposed to Bench to your chest.

Another example, is what you said,

- "That being said, there is no reason for not hitting paralel into the squat, deadlift and benching and doing OHP except laziness. "

How did you come to that conclusion?

[myTake Owner]

*it seems people are assuming

[BluesBoy]

Well, squatting, deadlifting are basic human movements OHP too, so everybody should be able to perform them.

Anyway, if you want to give more reasons to weakling for not hitting depth on squat or not doing deadlift, feel free, I don't really give a damn.

I will go watch again a video of pitbullruhl benching over 400lbs and sending motivation while he has no fucking legs and let people who wants to find excuses find them :)

[myTake Owner]

Broscience, gotta love it

[Sojex]

Different goals is the biggest one for me. I got buddies who do body building, power lifting, CrossFit, etc. and they always try to get me to do their work outs but my goals aren't their goals. I work out to benefit my Muay Thai training so a lot of the things they do just doesn't help get any closer to achieving my goals

[TripleAce]

have any expertise on doing squats if your Achilles heel is short - meaning when you try to squat you can't actually go down with proper range of motion because your heels lift up

A block of wood under the heels maybe?

[levantine99]

very nice take. enjoyed it. its good to see no bs people with good and sperical education talk about exercise matters.

[levantine99]

care to explain a bit "- Whether or not you use momentum"?
also do you believe aerobic training is "complete" training for a non athlete?

[myTake Owner]

Momentum can be used to create a different challenge, it could challenge different muscles than the same exercise performed without momentum. This is because other muscles might be used to stop the momentum in addition to the primary muscles getting worked for the primary movement.

Also if used inappropriately momentum could add huge joint forces that could cause injury because the more momentum the resistance has the more force required to stop it. The force required to stop it is the (total mass * the speed it's moving)

Because there's momentum helping you it could challenge the primary muscles less, or it could challenge them more because the momentum is going against you.

You can use momentum to start a lift to lower the forces on a joint that would be in an more vulnerable or less effiecient position to handle it at or near that point of the ROM. This is because the momentum helps you move the weight at a vulnerable part of the lift. This could be due to bone structure (cont)

[myTake Owner]

Body proportions, positions where certain muscles are stretched or contracted too far that their not biologically efficient to move the weight, or the muscles could be in a position where they mechanically (short Moment arms = max torque Output is (muscle force * Moment Arm length) ) are at inefficient position to generate torque.

It could also be used to intentionally minimize how much a muscle is working to focus on other muscles during the lift.

It could be slowed down at certain points throughout the lift to lower the force needed to stop it at certain points.

Like if you had a client that that just recovered from an certain injury, if it would be potentially aggravated by having to put out force to decelerate the weight on a portion of the eccentric (the motion going in the direction of the resistance) ROM. You could manipulate the exercise so the weight loses momentum at that point of the exercise while she/he is getting efficiently worked at the other parts of the exercise.

[myTake Owner]

Also the faster you stop something from moving the more force is required to stop it.

You can look at it as the (force = momentum / time)

The greater time you spend gradually slowing something down the less force is required to stop it. If you try to stop something in a faster time it requires more force.

Stopping the weight in 0.5 seconds requires 3 times as much force as stopping it in 1.5 seconds gradually.

[myTake Owner]

*TYPO: in the 2nd paragraph of the the first momentum comment. The last sentence should be the ( total Momentum = mass of resistance * speed it's moving) the force required to stop it is ( force = totalMomentum / time took to stop the movement ). The More time it takes to stop its momentum makes the force required smaller and shorter stopping times makes the force required greater

[levantine99]

thanks for the thorough explanations and all time and effort you dedicated. so i can safely assume that 98% of trainers in the world till now have been totally unfit for their job and even potentially dangerous for their clients. whoever lifted a bar in his hands became a "trainer". or whoever took a pseudo-degree that took none of the important issues of human uniqueness and physiology seriously. its good to see there is a new generation of trainers that actually know what they are talking about and can provide safer training. and with the synergistic relationships of many science fields and the development of technonology training can really evolve.

[myTake Owner]

Thanks for that.

And i didn't answer your other question. when you said I'd anaerobic Exercise "complete" for a non athlete, did you mean by it?

[myTake Owner]

*is aerobic Exercise
*what did you mean by it

[levantine99]

i meant is it enough for a lifestyle to be consedered "healthy"?

[YourFutureEx]

Holy shit! I was not ready for that insightful take. Thank you.

I wish you were not anon. I wanted to follow this fitness polymath.

[TuMeManques]

Love this take! I wish more people understood this especially in regards to things like squats and deadlifts where you tend to go heavier.

[writing_essays]

I really admire your expertise on the subject! Thanks for the info.

[sedrftvgyhujik]

interesting particularly the squat thing is good to know

[JustCallMeLeon]

This is really a great article. Thank for posting this.

[cupidkisses]

Such a great take really that's so logical just like we can't do the same diet to lose weight

[SnowHearth]

Thanks for sharing this so people can learn more.

[SwolDishWasher]

This is all pretty obvious stuff.

[myTake Owner]

How is this obvious to someone who had no background in this field?

[SwolDishWasher]

Because i follow starting strength. I dont need to go to school to have learned any of that. Its all free on the internet.

[SwolDishWasher]

there's also a lot of misinformation on here.

[myTake Owner]

I wasn't referring to you as the one with no background, I was talking about the audience. But now I know you don't have an actual background. Most of what you find on the internet about fitness and nutrition is misinformation or broad generalizations that shouldn't apply to everybody.

If you don't have the base background knowledge to help decipher fact from fiction, how do you know your not following misinformation?

If there was misinformation in my take please explain it, and why it's misinformation.

[SwolDishWasher]

How much do you bench squat deadlift?

[SwolDishWasher]

"Ignore the myths that say there's a single correct preset ROM or way for everyone to do an exercise

... always bench to your chest, ... keep elbows in / out during bench press, ... always squat ass to grass, ... always squat to parallel..., ... use "full range of motion" everyone should do, ... squat feet forward , ... momentum is always bad"

Squating to parallel, bench to chest, is pretty universal. That is good form. If you're not doing the full rom you will not get as strong or as muscular as you want.

[myTake Owner]

How far you can squat is dictated by the hip structure, by the stance you choose, your proportions, and your goal. That's the max range. The range you should be doing is dictated by your muscles, tendons, and ligaments. If it means doing quarter squats then its quarter squats and you can progess them further down over time if needed for their goal, but within their max range of motion determined by their bone structure and proportions.

For the myth of bench to your chest, bench press is an exercise that can be a shoulder Flexion , horizontal Adduction, or a mix of the shoulder motions. The movements you do is based what the "shoulder" can do.

Please explain to me how you think basing the full range of motion of the shoulder on the available safe range of motion of the shoulder is "misinformation". While basing the safe and effective ROM of the shoulder off how high or low an external object is that's not related to shoulder and is a different shoulder ROM for different proportions?

[myTake Owner]

The safety concerning their bone structure, joints , and client's capabilities come first before picking a Exercise or ROM to make their muscles bigger or stronger.

Also different people respond differently to different ranges of motion. So people respond better to short ranges of motion.

Again you just proved my point that your probably reading stuff that's misinformation or a broad generalization that's not meant for everybody.

[SwolDishWasher]

Bro you're not making much sense here.

[myTake Owner]

*some people respond better to short ranges of motion

[myTake Owner]

Different proportions, if two people bench to their chest,

Guy 1 : with a thin chest/rib age with long forearms goes through a deeper range of motion than
Guy 2 : another guy who has a thick chest or barrel chest/(thick ribcage) and short forearms

Guy 1 goes through a deeper range of motion than Guy 2.

Also if the shoulder is abducted at 90° during bench, the shoulder's ligaments try to stop horizontal Abduction at (on average) 90° (At parrellel) , if your arm is abducted less, then the shoulder's ligaments will try to stop the motion somewhere between 100° - 135° (10° - 35° behind your back). In both cases if you go in those ranges your permanently stretching and damaging the ligaments in the shoulder.

Also the moment Arm for the pectoralis major shortens around 90° so the pec shuts off and the deltoid has to take over most of the work because the pec isn't helping much.

Also the pec gets overstretched and is in a biologically inefficient length to produce force.

(Don't)

[myTake Owner]

(Cont)

The safe ranges of motion can vary from person to person.

[myTake Owner]

Here let me put in another way.

Your bench press motions are based on the shoulder. To dictate how far you should go down and the angles you need to look at whats safe and efficient for the shoulder and its muscles the cross it.

Your saying people who say the effective and safe range of motion of the shoulder is based on its actual safe and effective ROM are spreading "'misinformation".

While you claim basing the safe and effective ROM of the shoulder not off the actual shoulder's capabilities but off a weighted bar's position is "the correctly informed way of thinking".

Explain to me why I'm the one who's misinformed?

[SwolDishWasher]

Because most people figure that out as they start lifting. But again, squat to parallel and benching to your chest is nothing new. you're disputing this without providing any research. Also you're preaching against generalizing but thats exactly what you're doing. you're contradicting yourself left and right. This whole post is extremely confusing.

[SwolDishWasher]

Again how much do you lift?

[SwolDishWasher]

https://youtu.be/Ul93jkkZFHc

Good luck trying to have perfect form with 90% of your 1rm on your back.

[myTake Owner]

The only credible person in this debate is me. I actually have formal education in the topic. You dont have any education in the topic, you called my facts "misinformation" without any sources or educational background in the subject.

And your calling me out for not citing stuff I read in Physical Therapy texts and independent learning, even though I have a background in the subject.

Sure I'll cite them. In the meantime... answer me this,

You ask me how much I lift,

I ask you how credible are you? How smart are you? How good of a critical thinker are you? How much experience, formal education, and independent learning have you even done in this field? Blogs don't count.

I'm asking you because that's a better indicator of how knowledgeable someone is than how much they lift. The only people who ask that thinking it higher stats makes you automatically more knowledgable in fitness and nutrition are just uninformed people.

In my prime I squatted 460, lat pulled 300, (cont)

[myTake Owner]

I would rep 315 for sets of 10 on hex bar high pulls and rep 370 for sets of 5 for hex bar deadlifts.

It doesn't matter anyway, I know more now than I did then.

[myTake Owner]

*why would it matter anyway? I know more now than I did then.

[SwolDishWasher]

Going to school doesn't make you smart. Fitness is not rocket science, unless you're training top world athletes which you're not. Anything you learn in college can be learned for free in a library, if you wasted money on a fitness education, i got news for you bro...

[SwolDishWasher]

Those are weak lifts. I accomplished a 315 squat in a year. Im almost at a 1000 total, I've spent many hours researching, i have plenty of experience brah.

[myTake Owner]

Answer every question. That's why I asked you. I never said going to school makes you smart. That's why I asked you.

But you just answered all of them for me. Your an idiot. You have the reasoning skills of a moron so your not a critical thinker. You don't have any background education in the topic, you don't have any real experience applying the knowledge you don't have, your base and further knowledge in the subject was from google and internet, so you haven't had any real effective independant learning, and considering all of this definitely not credible.

A philosopher once mentioned signs of an idiot & how to deal with them. I'll paraphrase in my own words.

One of the signs was they do a small amount of research in the topics and think they know more about a subject than someone who's studied it their whole lives. Trying to reason with them isn't going to work because their too stupid to debate with, the best thing is to let it go and ignore their stupidity.

Good day.

[SwolDishWasher]

Attacking someones character is the first sign of losing an argument. You dont know shit dude.

[SwolDishWasher]

"One of the signs was they do a small amount of research in the topics and think they know more about a subject than someone who's studied it their whole lives. Trying to reason with them isn't going to work because their too stupid to debate with, the best thing is to let it go and ignore their stupidity."

Ill go ahead and take your advice there. Funny you think you can dispute coaches like Mark Bell and Ripptoe, the people I've watch countless hours of.

[myTake Owner]

You do realize you did that right? You questioned my educational knowledge by attacking an unrelated quality with my bench/squat/deadlift. Your not using reason and logic. Your saying you can get just as good of an education by finding it on the internet (in a field where most of the info on the internet is bullshit) . You said you got your knowledge through the internet. Your equating bench maxes with higher fitness knowledge. Your doing stuff an uniformed person in fitness would do on these subjects. And your debating fitness. Credibility is the most important part of a debator's quality. Without it their logic doesn't hold up.

Shoulder ligament max ROM's (joint structure and function cynthia norkin)
I'll provide the rest and stop.

[SwolDishWasher]

Shut up dude. you're not making any points.

[myTake Owner]

You do realize one of the leaders in the industry like Tom Purvis say what I'm saying. The difference I had a big enough base in knowledge to make an informed decision about what to believe. You don't, I actually used to believe the things you did and I don't now.

[iceEverestere]

Thanks. That was helpful.

[clever_seeker]

Thank you

[spoonman2014]

I needed this

[John_Doesnt]

Exercise is hard.

[Blitzkrieger]

Cool mytake. 👍