If I don't want to sign a prenup, how do I refute the argument that I'm a gold digger and I'm marrying the man's money and not the man?

[Kelley1]

[Ladsin2]

Not entirely sure. I think it'd make me suspicious of the woman if she declines. I have no doubt it would make her suspicious of me if I asked. I did watch an interview with James Sexton who made a point that did resonate with me. He said something to the effect of, "Whether you like it or not there are a set of rules that govern your marriage. Those rules are made by oftentimes unelected bureaucrats who can change the rules of your marriage at the drop of the hat and you don't know most of the rules. Why not make your own rules with the person you love? Why not have that hard conversation up front so that you can know that your partner is there with you because they love you?"

[LiamJHayden]

I do not see how you can. If someone wants a prenup, it is likely because that person understands that many marriages end in divorce, and many of those initiating divorce are actually incentivized by the asset rules. In no-fault states, even a cheater is entitled to half of marital assets, even if that spouse contributed nothing to those assets.

[AviatorTom]

Simple... sign a prenup. That proves you're not a gold digger.

[blueonblack22]

Well why would a man request a prenup to begin with? It’s usually because of the following:

• his ex-wife took to the cleaners and he learned a very hard lesson
• he’s rich and/or famous and knows he’s a target for gold diggers.
• he’s semi rich and seen his friends and/or family members get very badly burned.

But most average guys aren’t going to ask for prenup because they know there isn’t much their wife could take from them to begin. In fact it’s not too difficult for most guys to spot a woman who only cares about his money when they are thinking clearly. She might be a good actress in the beginning but there are certain tells.

I personally had an opportunity to get married 2 years ago and it wasn’t for love. If I wasn’t forced to post publicly (you should have allowed anon posts on this one @Kelley1) I would say what it was for. But the key giveaway happened about she really was after came out when she showed up to my place for my bday 2 years ago.

She was seemingly supportive at the time. I was going through a personal crisis with something at the time. But during sex (and we didn’t do it that often but it was my bday) she said under her breath “hurry up Joey….”

THAT was the moment I knew she was 100% objectifying me for her own ends and she had zero feelings or real attraction. That was when I quietly decided I didn’t want to do the marriage.

[MicahRaine]

Damn. . . . That's wild

[blueonblack22]

@MicahRaine i never did it again with her after that. Didn’t want to risk her getting pregnant. But also it’s very disheartening when a woman will drop it and get it over as fast as possible just because she wants something else from you.

[Kelley1]

That would have put a damper on it.

[MicahRaine]

@blueonblack22 good for you.

[Fireguy17]

We did a prenup and neither one of us had an issue doing it.
We protected our assets while we both like each other.
This way if something bad happens neither one of us will have to as do you want fries with that in our 70s just to get by.
What is the reason you do not want one, you haven't said why, so that argument could be true.

[Kelley1]

I suppose it may be true. After all, I would not marry a guy who didn't have money or the potential to earn money. However, it doesn't have to be a lot of money. The potential to earn a 6 figure income by age 30 is sufficient.

[BBFDancer]

When men hear a woman wants a guy with 6 figures income. To us, that is a red flag aka gold digger.

[Kelley1]

@BBFDancer In my case, I don't expect the man I marry to have a 6 figure income. I only expect that he has to potential to earn a 6 figure income by age 30.

[BBFDancer]

There is a new term that's worse than Gold Digger. That is Sprinkle Sprinkle Gal.

[HighValue]

It can't be done. As soon as I know a woman doesn't want a prenuptial agreement, I think she is just wanting the option to steal from me when things don't go her way.

Why don't you like a prenuptial agreement?

[Kelley1]

Because, if it doesn't go well, I want half of what he has. I will sign if I have to but I was hoping someone would tell me what I can say so that I'm not asked to sign.

[abc3643]

Simple.
If a man loves you, he won't make you sign a pre-nup.
Anyone who disagrees does not understand love.

So, use his requiring a pre-nup as an invitation to instantaneously and permanently end the relationship. Period.
Why?
1. He doesn't love you.
2. He doesn't understand love, so...
3. He's immature.

[Kelley1]

I believe he is aware of the high divorce rate, that women initiate 70% of divorces, and that the laws and family courts are biased in favor of women. I understand that. However, should it come to that, I still don't want to give up what I would otherwise be entitled (?) to.

[abc3643]

I don't care what his reasoning is, if he demands a pre-nup, then he is not in love. Pure and simple.

Love is a form of insanity in which you put the other person's welfare above yours without question.

When you are in love, there is no question that you want to be married to that other person and you don't put constraints on that.

A pre-nup illustrates rational thinking and love is not rational.
Rational thinking is like dealing with the mathematics of normal numbers.
Love is like dealing with the mathematics of infinities.

[Pohjolan]

By your own logic if a woman loves you, she will sign a pre-nup.

[abc3643]

@Pohjolan In a sense, yes. But what I wrote still applies and that would be a bad marriage because one of them - the pre-nup requester - doesn't love the other one. Being in love may be a form of insanity, but you are still not immune from rationale nor should you be.

For example, if I loved a woman, yes, I might consider signing her pre-nup based on what I what I wrote, but, at the same time, she just told me that she doesn't love me because she wants me to sign a pre-nup. This will adversely affect our relationship and likely end it because I will have snapped out of being in love based on what I discovered from her wanting the pre-nup.

[Pohjolan]

@abc3643
You are projecting, people don't have a universal level of rationality or emotions.

[Fireguy17]

@Pohjolan yeppers.
My wife thought it was a great idea, this way our retirements are protected, as well as everything else.
She gets it all if I become worm chow before her, I get it all if she becomes worm chow before me.

[abc3643]

@Pohjolan What I wrote still stands.
If you have ever been in love - real love - you will understand too.
We all do (hopefully) one day.

[Pohjolan]

@abc3643
That's a "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

[Fireguy17]

in your mind it does make sense, but fortunately you do not speak for everyone else.
Who made you the omnipotent one to go to on this subject, I'm just curious.
I have an idea.

[abc3643]

@Fireguy17 I stated my piece based on 45 years of experience. Believe what you wish. It does not impact me. But I gave this young lady advice born out of those decades of experience.

[Fireguy17]

oh, then I guess I'm more of an expert than you are, based on your only 45 years of experience.
.

[abc3643]

@Fireguy17 No, you don't understand love, that's all.

[Kelley1]

@Fireguy17 Experience is valuable but not everyone with experience has the same beliefs. Therefore, experience does not trump intelligence, logic, and expert advice.

[Surely]

With the rate of divorce being so high in today’s world. At least with a prenuptial agreement. A person may have a chance to retain most of their assets.
If one or both parties in marriage wants a prenuptial agreement. Because they have a high value business or stand to come into vast wealth. Then why not sign. You will still benefit from the others wealth while together.

[Billlewis]

Not wanting to sign a legal document that will almost certainly weaken your position and negotiating power in a marriage does not, in any way whatsoever make you a gold digger; it makes you someone who has common sense.

[bobby_bush_eater]

As someone who wants a prenup and wants a one family income (me working, she's at home with the kids) I'm curious why you are opposed to one?

I'm in favor to not only protect myself but to provide guidance for how our joint finances will work and my prospective wife will have access and control of funds so it does not create a power imbalance in the marriage (common in the 1950-70s). This way I'm protected, and so is she.

[MicahRaine]

Same ^

[msc545]

You don't refute it at all. Even signing a pre-nup won't protect him unless you don't have your own attorney, so don't.

[Kelley1]

I'm certain that his attorney knows the law so, if it comes to that, the two of us will comply with the legal requirements so that the prenup will withstand any challenges.

[msc545]

That's fine if you want things to stay the way they are described in the prenup, but in a divorce you may not want that. This is why not having an attorney actually works to your advantage in some ways. On the other hand, having an attorney also works to your advantage.

[Pohjolan]

Kelley1:

If I don't want to sign a prenup, how do I refute the argument that I'm a gold digger and I'm marrying the man's money and not the man?

Also Kelley:

What are you reasons for not signing?
Money.

[strateguy632]

You proved you are a gold digger by rejected prenup document

[Kelley1]

perhaps

[Jersey2]

If you are 20, the guys you meet shouldn’t have much so it is not an issue unless they have inherited wealth. Find a guy your age with potential. Then a pre-nip won’t matter as he has nothing but a bright future.

[Apple1996]

Prenups often times get thrown out. They are pointless for most couples

[jahaims]

What are you reasons for not signing

[Kelley1]

Money.

[RedInnocent69]

Marry someone that has less money, so you can give them half when they leave you.

[Dongie]

You don't, unless you are richer than him.

[Kelley1]

That is easy to say, but what choice do I have if he is not going to marry unless I sign a prenup?

[Dongie]

What choice do you deserve? Don't come at me like you have rights over him just for being a woman. Are you insane?

[Kelley1]

I am pretty, smart, and will be a good mother and housewife that will cook, clean, and cater to my husband. That makes me deserving.

[Dongie]

Deserving?

[Dongie]

Sign the paper. If you divorce him wlehuvshoildvyou deserve his money that he had before marriage.

[Dongie]

You had a birthdsy. Happy 🎂

[Dongie]

Sorry I'm falling asleep.

[LEGENDARY4200]

... by signing it...