Women that refuse to do non-governmental marriage, you realize you're admitting to only want to marry for money, right?

[Anonymous]

Literally every component of government marriage can easily be replicated without government marriage. Except for forced labor and asset transfer.

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You can do a ceremony with vows with the government authorizing it. You can have witnesses and a celebration too. And rings. And the titles of husband and wife.

[Anonymous]

My parents and I paid for the whole wedding and even the groom's clothes and shoes too. How is that wanting to marry for money? Personally I never wanted children born out of wedlock (they were called bastard children in the past), with a higher chance of being raised in a broken home with a single mother. Children deserved to be raised with both parents within marriage like it was in the past. More fathers need to be involved in their child's lives at all times. Perhaps that's why Father's Day isn't celebrated as much as Mother's Day but it should be.

Perhaps I'm analyzing things from a female perspect and marriage is the safer option (as it was in the past too) than co-parenting within cohabitation. She has a higher chance of becoming a single mother (then her chances of finding another suitable man that will accept a child of a boyfriend that wouldn't marry her is even lower) if she's a girlfriend vs if she's a wife.

While I understand your point of view and indeed incentive (I actually favor the incentive getting eliminated if you're just going to divorce for no good reason... it should be only reserved for serious cases such as he's really beating her up or he has kids with a mistress) shouldn't be the reason to get married but rather forming a family and wanting the old-fashioned commitment (as a symbol), try to understand the woman's side of why we wouldn't be jumping up and down in happiness over just living together and giving him kids without marriage.

[Asker]

So if the government doesn't authorize the marriage, it's not a marriage to you? That's not the way I see it at all.

[Ariesman81]

Sounds very reasonable. I don't necessarily agree that divorcees have an easier time than girlfriends however. Given the climate of divorce stats... the woman who couldn't get the ring gets the nod over the woman who could and probably chose to leave.

[Opinion Owner]

Well there is no other way to get married if we're both atheists. We didn't do a religious ceremony because we don't believe in a god.

[Opinion Owner]

So our magistrate/registrar is basically the equivalent of a priest if it would've been a religious marriage. Any marital ceremony can be beautiful if married for the right reasons.

[Ariesman81]

But you're using a religious sacrament. Marriage is and has always been a religious belief.

[Opinion Owner]

@Ariesman81
My father is really agnostic and his cousin is atheist too. They still got married. I believe in commitment during good and bad times, being each other's support and the union of two families (my family and his). It's indeed a special one of a kind moment. While yes it does have some religious theme, you can still get married as an atheist. My loyalty is towards my husband and the life we're sharing together; not to a fictitious being.

[Asker]

I don't know where my reply went so I'll do it again:

You can still do a ceremony with vows, have witnesses, do a reception party, wear rings and call each other husband and wife without the government authorizing it.

[Opinion Owner]

In others words a simulation to a wedding but not really because neither of you are publically recognized as husband and wife in official documents nor ID's. So basically it would be verbal make-believe ''commitment ceremony'' (not a wedding) but you guys would still be just boyfriend and girlfriend; another added theme in cohabitation. I'm straight forward and for me there is really no other way around. Either you're officially married or you're not and it's still cohabitation.

[Opinion Owner]

Things are clear to me. There is no in between nor a compromise on something important for me. I'm a ''all or nothing'' person. My now husband knew very well we were dating to get married and form a family, not to cohabitate. I was very clear on my goal, all or nothing.

[Asker]

You would still be publicly recognized as much as you want to be. It's not like people go around showing their marriage certificates to the world. Name changes for IDs can be done too. But both of those things are the government authority that isn't really necessary.

But your opinion is clear. You need the government authorization. Would you agree to marriage if asset transfer and alimony were a check box on marriage certificates and your then-fiance did not check the box? I ask because I'm trying to make sense of whether or not it's the government authorization or the financial obligation that matter.

[Opinion Owner]

You sound traumatized. All I'm thinking about is our expecting child, the happy life together, our wonderful communication every day, our beautiful trip to Cusco for our honeymoon and the memories of our first date. I'm not even thinking about monetary incentives. He can keep his assets just like I can keep mine; don't mind. I think monetary incentive should get reserved for something very serious (in an exceptional case) such as a husband beating up his wife or hitting his kids.

[Opinion Owner]

If it helps I'm actually Latina and we tend to work things out till the end; we still have some conservative values. We can work out all except abuse and infidelity.

[Asker]

How do I sound traumatized? I'm not insulting you or anyone else. I'm having a discussion. If anything, you going personal would be an indication of your own trauma.

I'll take that answer as a yes then. You would still marry if financial obligations of all kinds were not an option. That's good of you. And rare. I hope you have a happy marriage and life together.

[Opinion Owner]

The reason I thought you sounded traumatized is because of the overgeneralization that we all marry for money. That's like I were saying all men pump and dump. Every human is different. We exist everywhere and I hope you find the one for you. I don't think we're rare. Try finding a family oriented family woman that values the nuclear family, that finds Father's Day just as equally important as Mother's Day. Thank you.

[Asker]

I've been married for over 9 years. I had literally nothing when we got married. And it was my idea to marry. My wife didn't care about marriage and we lived together for 5 years before that because she just wanted to be with me and didn't need a government certificate. The overgeneralization was about women insisting on the legal financial obligation. But I guess it was too broad, so your criticism of me is fair. But you should know that you're a rare breed. My wife too. These are compliments, I promise.

[Ariesman81]

Let's not kid ourselves here... the purpose of marriage is for security. The security of the wife. And will be the same thing I tell my daughter when she gets to that point. But I will have more faith in a woman's sincerity if she chose to forgo the state marriage for a religious ceremony.

[Opinion Owner]

@Ariesman81
What difference does it make whether she believes in a god and doesn't? If you marry a supposedly devoted Christian/Catholic at church and she follows the ''till death do us apart'' and if you marry an serious, conservative atheist that has family value and that is loyal till the end, you're still getting the same results, perhaps even better since she doesn't need a super being to be loyal.
Actually being loyal because you're obeying/following some superior, because of religon being... wouldn't that contradict itself? Instead of being loyal because of your own free will.

[Ariesman81]

You pose a great argument. It just feels incredibly disingenuous. To use religious beliefs but say you don't believe is crazy to me.
Belief in God is free will. I'm not saying you have to, but I'd argue you're either more religious than you think you are, or you're a blasphemous woman. In which case... good luck to you.

[Danielle93]

How about if I want nothing for now? I'm happy being single in my own house.

[Danielle93]

My house, my stuff so I can easily kick you out if you're just a boyfriend.

[Asker]

Doesn't sound like the question applies to you then

[Anonymous]

I think you knew the answer before you asked. It's been asked here before, about whether women would marry if alimony and community assets didn't exist and if child support was default 50/50. I don't think it was too popular amongst the ladies.

[Anonymous]

Oh, you poor boy, the lights are on, but nobody is home, right?

[Asker]

When someone can only make insults but not arguments, I know they're both cowardly and stupid.

[Anonymous]

hmmmm