Do you like teslas?

[Anonymous]

[MrOracle]

Electric cars are not YET capable of replacing petroleum vehicles in ALL applications, but most would be surprised just how much the better ones CAN replace a gas car for most people. I still have a few concerns - the fact that ALL electric cars (and increasingly newer gas cars too!) have the ability to be remotely tracked, and remotely disabled, is a "Big Brother" aspect I'm not a huge fan of, for example.

But if you look at Tesla's vehicles from an engineering standpoint, they are MILES ahead of the competition - and still increasing their lead on a daily basis. Elon's companies (all of them) are RELENTLESS about making constant improvements in a way that hasn't been seen since the CPU wars of the 1990s - and Elon's companies are working in MUCH wider areas than just that.

Legacy auto companies have always moved at a glacial pace, being reluctant to make major redesigns, change manufacturing processes, or incorporate new technology. As someone who has always had an interest in car technology, I've always found the tech in brand new cars to be 5-10 years behind - and that's been true for at least 30 years.

That's not the case with Tesla - Tesla has designed perfectly adequate solutions, put them in cars, and then within a couple of months, has designed a much BETTER solution, and immediately put THAT in cars, and then designed an EVEN BETTER solution and immediately put THAT in cars. It takes legacy auto 20 years or more to make 3 generations of parts and get them in cars - Tesla did it in 8 months.

Tesla is constantly balancing between the latest bleeding-edge tech (battery formulation, for example) vs. the cost of that tech, the real-world reliability of that tech, the real-world performance of that tech, and the projected availability of materials. As soon as they can feasibly and sustainably roll out something better, they do. Incredibly quickly. Their earliest cars were built with some of the best commercially-available electric motors on the market.

Then they designed their own better motors. And they've since designed 3 more generations in a 10 year period, each one a significant improvement over the last. Legacy auto can't make that kind of progress in 50 years - they simply lack the will and corporate culture to do so.

I think the majority of people simply don't understand electric cars, and only think of them via the worst-case-scenario situations, such as taking a long trip and having to use public charging. Driving a tesla, it's true: every 4 hours/280 miles of driving, you'll need to charge for about 25 minutes. But MOST people on a long road trip are going to stop and eat every 4 hours anyway, so that 25 minutes isn't as big a deal as you'd think.

But what many don't quite understand is that MOST Tesla owners NEVER or nearly never use public charging. That's because with an EV, its like having a gas station at home. You come home from driving, and you plug in your car. When you wake up, it's full and ready to go, every day. Most people spend LESS time "fueling" than they would in a gas car having to go to a gas station to fill up.

Will a Tesla replace your Ford F-350 diesel towing a 5th Wheel? No, of course not. For now, that F-350 is the best solution for that problem. But that's not what the majority of people need. A Model 3 or Y would serve the needs of the vast majority of people, and probably better than they have any idea. Tesla loyalty is incredibly high, because people who drive them feel like they've discovered a cheat code or life hack, and would never give it up if they didn't have to.

[msc545]

I used to like them until I found out that their mileage estimates are fraudulent, and their self-driving software is defective and dangerous as hell.

[msc545]

Thanks for MHO

[Bilboes]

I can understand the reasons why electric cars have become popular recently, but why do Teslas have to look so ugly and uninspired aesthetically? They look like a more buff version of Prius.

[MrOracle]

It's because efficiency is a HUGE component of why Teslas are successful, but this requires that the cars be very aerodynamic and have as low a coefficient of drag as reasonably possible while still being functional as a car, and that imposes some pretty strict restrictions on shapes.

If you compared fairly equivalent vehicles - such as a Ford Mustang Mach-E (an all-electric SUV) and the Tesla Model Y, you'd find that not only is the Tesla a lot lighter, it also has a lower coefficient of drag. This allows it to have a battery pack that is about 22% smaller than the Ford, and yet still have more range. It also means the battery charges faster and costs less. A Model Y costs $18,000 less to buy than a Mach-E, yet Tesla makes about $10,000 of profit when they sell one, while Ford literally loses around $38,000 on every Mach-E that's sold because it's much more expensive to build, in part because its lack of efficiency.

It may seem like a small thing - sacrificing some style for aerodynamics - but there are LOTS of very positive consequences for making that sacrifice.

[Bilboes]

@MrOracle I understand that they smooth out the body lines of the car for aerodynamics, but that doesn't mean they're not ugly. They look like cheap 3D car models..

[MrOracle]

Fair enough - everyone has their own preferences and tastes. I've certainly seen prettier cars. Just so you understand that they don't look the way they do because no one cars about what they look like, or because they have crappy designers - they look the way they do because efficiency is a huge part of the function, as well as the brand image.

There are, and will be, EVs that are better looking that people can buy. They will cost more and perform worse, but they'll be available for those who prioritize the car's appearance (and that's a LOT of people, not just you).

[provokeesmokee]

No. They're ill manufactured, subscription locked, and prone to explosion.

Pretty much any EV other than a Tesla is safer and better value.

[wkozak]

Converting your car to an electric car is much cheaper than buying a tesla, i don't say it's a bad car but it's value is overrated.

[MrOracle]

Perhaps, but you'll never achieve anything close to the efficiency, reliability, or ease-of-use experience that you would get from a Tesla. A home-built is a car that you're going to be working on frequently, as a hobby - kind of like an older Harley Davidson. No big deal if you enjoy that, but most consumers have neither the time or the interest in doing that.

[wkozak]

So the easy option is looking for another company that makes electric cars at a cheaper price and a good value and has the reliability, some european companies like WV and BMW make good electric vehicles but i don't know if they are a good equivalent to tesla or not.

[MrOracle]

VW and BMW's EV programs are a huge disaster. VW has given up their largest market (China) entirely, and will be instead rebadging Chinese EVs because their ID3s and ID4s completely failed in the market - not so much because the vehicle hardware was bad - it isn't - but because the entire software experience - which is VITAL for an EV - is a horrific mess. Their previous CEO tried for years to explain to the VW board of directors how vital software was to EVs, and because they didn't want to hear that (the Porsche folks especially), they fired him. 2 years later, and they've lost half of their market, and they've had to shut off production of ID3s and ID4s for the US because they already have 180+ day supply.

BMW's few current EVs are incredibly expensive and have limited range and performance because they prioritized style and comfort at the expense of efficiency, weight-reduction, and cost-efficiency, and their sales are unsustainable.

The entire German auto industry is in HUGE trouble and in massive debt. ICE sales are in decline, though still profitable for now, but they lose huge money on EVs because they want to make them just like ICE cars, and you can't.

[wkozak]

I didn't know all of this mess, we all know how bad electric Chinese cars are, maybe we have to wait to get the perfect electric car

[MrOracle]

The Chinese cars are actually pretty good - I wouldn't buy one for other reasons, but objectively, they're pretty good, IF you don't mind the fact that they have no support infrastructure in the US and the fact that it's going to share every bit of data it collects with the CCP. But the only cars the Chinese will choose over their own top brands is a Tesla, and for them, for good reason.

China has effectively banned the sale of new ICE cars now (as of a few months ago, but it's been coming for years), so if you don't have EVs to sell, you can't play in the biggest car market in the world (North America is the second largest car market).

[wkozak]

It's pretty funny that i talk about cars while living in a third world country which doesn't have 24 hour electricity.

[wkozak]

But i believe electric cars are maybe the future if we kept our power sources clean

[MrOracle]

Solar panel cost has come down 94% in 20 years, and there are several significant breakthroughs that are being tested today that could become commercial products in 5 years, that could increase output/reduce costs a good chunk more. And battery storage of electricity (regardless of how it was generated) is increasingly being deployed and improved. The future of EVs as a technology is bright, even in places with poor electricity today, and without having to burn millions of tons of coal to do it.

[wkozak]

Some people don't have brains in their heads, but i hope it can be true in the near future, i don't wanna be a grandpa when it happens in my country

[exitseven]

Besides the fact theat they catch fire They are good.

[CrimsonAngel09]

I mean they look neat.

[laraWM]

Too expensive, never tried it

[Iron_Man]

I never tried it out

[boobliker]

where I ask?

[Pterodon]

Nope