Why do so many Women react to MGTOW so negatively?

[Edwin23]

I don't claim to be Mgtow, but share some of their values.
But I have seen how Women's reaction to Mgtow is kind of weird. When some woman find out that actual normal guys have simply just stopped approaching woman, dating woman, and cutting off anything to do with woman.
Some woman just write it off like its nothing.
Some woman write them off as misogynist
Some call dudes Gay
But most Woman get angry and resentful at the fact that a lot Men have simply stopped trying with Women.
Please is their any Logical, Rational, Objective explanation that a woman can give me?

[Qdbrown]

MGTOW is a fortress and safe harbor for men to learn true female nature. During the Red Pill Phase, often the Red Pill Rage, many men can say a lot of nasty things about women. Many outside the MGTOW Community take that as a true MGTOW.

Whereas it’s really a place for men to learn and go their own way. It might mean back to the plantation where he will labor his life away for a wife. The smart guys will date limitely and or not at all. If you go Monk Mode, you’re perhaps the safest and there are ways to make it work. Some are even purchasing life size Barbie sex dolls. I have heard those dolls are better than the real thing, especially if you get a custom vagina that can spin and do things no woman ever can. They are starting brothels for those dolls because they are better. And now that they are beginning to add robotics and AI, a future sex doll will likely be a better partner.

And to be honest no educated MGTOW hates women. It’s about investing in yourself. Being the best you. Stop seeking female validation. Learn self validation. And once a man can achieve that, he learns his need for a woman is very limited, seeing that most women are now strong independent women which are virtually the most unattractive quality a woman can have, when a man is wanting to get serious with a woman. If he wants strong and independent, he might as well be gay and get the best version of that.

Most men really do not like feminism. It doesn’t add value to a man’s life. In fact a woman who is his man’s equal has a higher chance for monkey-branching by cheating at any point in the relationship. There are exceptions, but those are far and few. A woman never dates or marries down. When she leaves, it will not be clean and easy, especially if married or with children.

The other problem is no fault divorce. It sounds okay, except that it makes it easy to divorce on a whelm. Marriages are hard and people can be fickle. Women expect commitment, but women under 35 initiate 80% of all divorces. The Family Court will be harder on the husband. And her attorney will be going for everything he can get his client. And regardless if true, moral or fair. When it come to tournament divorce, your wife will become your worse enemy. She will hurt and bad destroy you. So much so, suicide will be a popular option for many newly divorced men.

All in all, modern women, the strong and independent types are not worth it. As a man, you might like some of her qualities, but virtually everything about that modern woman will turn on you one day.

If you as a man want to live a good healthy life, learn the ways of MGTOW and go your own way. As after a year or two, many men move on and start new businesses, find their real hobbies and self interest and take over their own ownership. . Never to give it away ever again. MGTOW 4 Ever.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Simple, it takes a lot for men to turn against women, far more then it takes for a woman to turn on a man. This means that a man who is walking away from a woman is now no longer usable by women, he is not being manipulated he is not going to provide resources etc. This is not beneficial to these women who are trying to manipulate and use men for what ever reason. They are afraid that if he is going to walk away other men will to. If it was only one man they wouldn't care but its not and that's what is bothering them, that their manipulation, misandry and abuse is now just now having consequences and these manipulative women are afraid they are going to lose control.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Thanks for the MHO.

[BrittBratt2416]

Um the same reason why men react negatively to feminism dude? Both are saying they don't need each other and that offends them cause the truth is both sexes need each other. otherwise humans would go extinct. But honestly I think mgtow is almost as bad a feminist, they constantly shit talking women and saying how they don't need them anymore... but still continue to talk about women. I don't get. Just do your own thing bro, if you've opted out of dating or the gene pool, then that's fine- just go live your life you know? But honestly I don't think these men aren't truly over women, they're just lonely, angry, rejected, heartbroken, men who want to find love and be in relationships but are upset at women cause they're having a hard time finding it. And some of these guys are just upset that women aren't as depended on men as they use to cause women are out there doing their own thing. But anyways, I don't hate it I'm just kinda meh you know? Like if that's what some guys want to do its chill.

[grega239]

Feminism: teach men not to rape.
Mgtow: that means men r rapists by default so we're not gonna deal with women

Do u see the problem here

[BrittBratt2416]

@grega239 um I already know that, I've seen that problem for a while now so what exactly are you trying to show me?

[grega239]

The point is, why would men spend time on women if this is being publicized by large news organizations that say " its mens fault that (insert whatever bothers u about the world). And it wouldn't be a problem if politics werent infected with such bullshit... feminism has lost its mind. mansplaining manspreading sexist air condition kill all men and so on and people wonder why men are saying fuck having a relationship with a woman

[BrittBratt2416]

@grega239 dude you're not telling me anything new here lol

[Volvagia]

I support MGTOW as a theory, but not how its currently practiced.
To elaborate:
I support the idea of men (and women) relieving themselves of their gender roles and going against the current of society by refusing to get married, have kids, whatever. Thats all fine and if you dont wanna associate with women at all; dont wanna marry em or date or fuck them, cool.
Thing is majority of MGTOWers dont even do that shit, they spend all their free time bitching about women on reddit and mgtow forums which goes against the very core of their philosophy of not centering women around their lives. It's pathetically hilarious.

[Edwin23]

But why when Woman do it, is it okay?

[Volvagia]

when women do what? Bitch about men? It's not okay - it's completely irrational and just involves spewing out hateful garbage

[hellionthesagereborn]

But feminist have been doing that for almost sixty years now? Why don't women call out women on that? I mean at least with MGTOW they are pointing out to existing laws that discriminate against men and societal norms that women try to force on men, feminist don't even have that. So why is it bad when men do it but not with women and feminist? Or are you saying both are equally pathetic?(I would disagree but at least your consistent if that is your stance).

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn
1. not a feminist and I don't support modern feminism whatsoever
2. why don't women call out women on that? I do and I have before, I recognize that female privilege exists in the West and I have been vocal over the hypocrisy of feminists, when it comes to the lack of other women doing that, well I can't personally speak for them
3. Yes im saying both are pathetic although modern feminism is worse because they have political power but both movements are filled with bitterness, whining and overall toxicity and irrationality that I think is plain stupid.

[hellionthesagereborn]

well at least your consistent. Yes they are bitter but why are they bitter? Because they have few legal rights and are subject to the whims of women in almost every interaction. Its not whining if their is a legitimate issue and an actual bias. I'm not MGTOW, I don't think walking away is going to solve anything but I do understand their position. I mean calling some one bitter isn't an insult, its not proving their argument wrong, I'm sure a lot of people where bitter about racism that caused unfair laws, didn't mean they had no right to be bitter, didn't mean they where not correct that their was an unfair bias and system in place, it just means they didn't like it. So I don't think calling some one bitter has any baring on whether or not they are right.

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn I'm not denying that there isn't double standards present and that men don't face inequalities in certain facets in our somewhat gynocentric western society but the "bitter" label comes from their incessant whining on the internet as complaining isn't going to solve anything. I'd have some sympathy if they were level headed and mature in their comments and - I may be going by my anecdotes here - but nearly every single MGTOW i've ever had the displeasure of encountering on the internet harboured a deep rooted hatred and resentment for women as a whole that would seep into everything they said - this attitude is not only irrational and just plain stupid, it does nothing to solve these legal or societal issues men face hence their negative reputation.

[hellionthesagereborn]

So how are they going to address the issues if they don't mention them? In order to have sway you need people to believe that their is a problem, you need to raise money to lobby and fight back. If they don't talk, if they do not spread their message by "whining" then how do they get others to listen? They have tried to be reasonable about it and have been slandered. They have held meetings and been shut down and accused of sexism even as they spoke about male issues. So what are they suppose to do? You tell them to stop whining but that sounds an awful lot like telling them to shut up and deal with it. As for having a hatred of women I think that's going a bit far but then, men are having their entire lives destroyed by women and women are telling them to stop whining, sit back and let it happen as their children are taken from them, as everything they worked for is taken from them, as they are abused etc. So what would be your solution since nothing else has worked thus far?

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn MGTOW is not a solution to issues regarding mens rights, I hope you realize that. Theyre men who have bad experiences with women and - since humans are so irrational - they take these negative experiences and allow it to sour their judgements and perspectives. Have you seen some of the shit they say on their forums, reddit, YT? How is hate going to solve anything? It's childish and just plain stupid hence why hardly anyone who is non-MGTOW takes them seriously. You can fight for a cause while being diplomatic & respectful. Of course hating women is taking it far just like radical feminists hating men is taking it far. At that point, you've pretty much gone off the deep end. Men are having their entire lives destroyed by women? Quite the exaggeration, in what way are women destroying their lives? Divorce rape? there's no doubt that family court laws are unfair to ur average man, but who's creating these laws? women or men?

[Volvagia]

When male victims of domestic violence and rape aren’t taken as seriously as female victims, is it only women allowing for this inequality? What about all those men who don’t believe men can be rape victims or those men that’ll call a guy a faggot or tell him to man up cuz his partner is abusive towards him? This isn’t a blame game, I’m just making a point; you think women are at fault here but really, neither men or women are solely responsible. It’s deep rooted gender expectations and roles that are reflected through these inequalities in our society and this has been going for generations.

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn
You ask for a solution - I can only give you my anecdotes. I signed up for a men rights & awareness club at my uni (youd be surprised by how many women there are) and their focus is to raise advocacy for men’s issues through speaker events, debates, workshops, public protests, petitions & socials. The key is to spread knowledge and get more people involved yet this can all be done tactfully, positively and requires no hate which is essentially what MGTOW lacks. Now there is no guarantee that will work but it’s a much better approach then ranting about how all women are manipulative bitches set out on destroying this planet. Carrying a “women are the enemy” mentality/attitude isn’t a solution unless your goal was to divide the genders and generate more hate.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes on an individual level men can and do perpetuate these things. The difference is that women do it, push it more and then form groups to protest and attack any man who attempts to bring up these issues, again as what happened with the Warren Farrell. The fact is that while many perpetuate this it is predominantly feminist and women, not men. It is not men who have the female centric organizations, the lobbiest etc. It is female organizations and feminist organizations. It is women who keep pushing this idea that only men can be abusers, sure men do it to but mostly because a mans natural instinct is to side with women (white knights). It is predominantly women as they have the political clout and the lobbiest and organizations to stop men's groups from speaking out. They are the ones at protests, not so much for men.

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for your last remark, I am not surprised their are women MRA's, in fact I am well aware of them (like karen straughan). What I am saying is that women perpetuate the problems, it was whether or not you wish to acknowledge it women who created these problems (feminist groups predominantly and all the women who support them), and it is predominantly women who are shouting these men down. Meanwhile as I believe I already pointed out I am not a MGTOW, I am simply pointing out that claiming they are bitching and whining when most have had their lives destroyed by these systems is not really correct, they have every reason to be angry. I'm not saying its productive, but acting as if they just hate women just to hate women is absurd. The vast majority have a perfectly valid reason to be angry and its women who keep demanding that they shut up, keep calling them worthless and bitter that just proves their points in their eyes thus perpetuating the problem.

[hellionthesagereborn]

In short it was a complete lack of empathy for men (predominantly by women) that got us into this situation and having a complete lack of empathy for the men who where harmed by this lack of empathy is not going to fix the problem. Most men will gladly let go of their anger if women showed them empathy, compassion and understanding. That's what caused the problem, women blamed men for everything yet demanded everything from them. It was the lack of compassion, nurture, love and empathy that pushed them to this point. If a dog has spent its entire life being beaten by people you can't expect it to suddenly assume that your going to be some how different just because it happens to be you. You have to show that your different. These men have been traumatized, they have watched as loved ones (fathers/brothers/friends) have had their lives destroyed or have themselves had their lives destroyed. Empathy and understanding is key.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I am not MGTOW, I don't think its a solution to the problem. Doesn't mean I don't empathize with them, doesn't mean I don't understand where their anger is coming from. You can disagree and still empathize with a person.

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn
No there is no valid reason to hate half the human population because of one's limited experiences. It's extremely illogical - just like those women who hate men cuz they peg the entire human male race to be rapists simply because they were raped by one guy. Exactly what does that mentality accomplish asides from crawling deeper & deeper into their cesspool of resentment & hatred - this isn't going to garner much sympathy asides from those who are likeminded. This isn't to deny their trauma or even their victimhood but that's not an excuse. There are men who have been hurt by women yet they didn't become bitter as a result or turn to MGTOW; reality is, MGTOWers just aren't resilient.
you may not be a MGTOW, but what you've written is very biased with a favorable view of them. And my biases don't agree with ur biases which is fine but it's evident we won't see eye to eye on this, I don't see much point in dragging this out further.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, what I have written is based upon my experiences with them. They flock to women who support them (as most men do), you seem them watching Karen Straughn you see them flock to women like Cassy Jay. So clearly they don't hate half the population, they are just really pissed off because they have been screwed over and many women are perfectly content with them having been screwed over, they feel betrayed. I mean look at your responses, how are you any different? Your claiming all of them are this way, that they all hate women and they are all bad people (or alluding to it anyway). So your no different then they are. That's why I pointed out what you said was not fair and that you should consider the circumstances.

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn I'm not alluding to MGTOW's being bad people, as long as theyre not doing anything illegal, to me, theyre not bad. I just think they're irrational & bitter due to their lack of resilience. But okay fam, you got me - I generalized albeit unintentionally so let me rectify my mistake. Most MGTOWers (cuz ur right that not all of them are bitter and hate women) but in my experiences (contributing to my bias against them) most of them r bitter as sour milk yo
you experiences don't negate that your biased, everyone is biased. Also dont be a hypocrite, you insult me for generalizing MGTOW's (in a negative light) yet you generalize them yourself (in a positive light) by saying they don't hate women - many do and have freely admitted it. I don't see any reason for this to continue as, like I mentioned before, we both have differing opinions and it's not likely either of us will change our stance on this. So ya, good talk bro

[hellionthesagereborn]

I never said I was not biased, you however tried to imply you where not, please don't try and turn that around onto me. I stated quite plainly that in my experiences they are generally willing to interact with women who do not exhibit the same hateful behaviors as the women who have ruined so many of their lives, the ones who don't dismiss them because they are "bitter"(again not really an argument being upset that your getting mistreated does not negate the fact that your being mistreated, in fact the bitterness is a response to it). You then generalized them and claimed that since they generalize women they are bitter and angry and hate women. That's why I said your not different from them, that's why its important to try and understand them instead of dismissing them. I never insulted you as far as I am aware but if you can point out to what I said I would appreciate it. I don't think I generalized, I said in my experience they have cause for their frustrations.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I do believe I mentioned some can be bad (I am having multiple discussions about this so its hard to keep track of what was said where) but for the most part most have a reason for their frustrations. So I don't see where that is hypocritical, I also don't see where I put them in a good light, I admitted they are angry, I was merely pointing out that many of them are angry for a reason. I also admitted that I don't think what they are doing works, so again don't know how that's putting them in a positive light but you have not given one positive statement about them, their was no critique of their position, it was just claiming they are just "bitching" and whining and hating all women. I have stated where they are wrong (their system is not a solution) I have pointed out that yes many of them can become assholes, I also stated that the reason was because of the mistreatment of men in our society and unfair laws so it was not entirely unprovoked. Again, I don't see the positive bias?

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn please point out where I said I was unbiased? I acknowledged my bias fully TWICE "And my biases don't agree with ur biases" and "contributing to my bias against them"
-being mistreated is not an excuse to perpetuate hate, a girl being the victim of an abusive relationship does not give her the excuse to perpetuate the idea that men are inherently abusers, its in their nature (this is similar to the type of rhetoric you'll find on mgtowforums & their reddit) hence why being "bitter" is a legit criticism
I did generalize and I corrected it --> "I generalized albeit unintentionally so let me rectify my mistake. Most MGTOWers (cuz ur right that not all of them are bitter and hate women) but in my experiences (contributing to my bias against them) most of them r bitter as sour milk yo"
Again, I acknowledged that my experiences differ from yours HENCE why I mentioned we dont see eye to eye.
I reread what you wrote again, and I may have misunderstood your wording

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn So I take back my comment on you generalizing. If you don’t think “im different”, that’s fine but I never claimed I didn’t empathize with them (from what I recall) only that I don’t SYMPATHIZE with them. I've been hurt too okay, I know what its like to let negativity to cloud your judgements and I never denied they weren’t angry for a reason – I said it was irrational and (in my EXPERIENCE) most MGTOWS I've encountered just bitch and spew hate; In my original opinion to the question, I said I supported MGTOW as a theory in which men relieve themselves of societal expectations/gender roles/etc. and just doing w/e they want to do with their own lives n shit but doing so can be done without negativity; fuck u don’t even need officially join MGTOW to just say “fuck that” to marriage/dating/kids/etc. I have given an in depth critique to MGTOW based on those mgtowers (NOT ALL) that are bitter hateful fucks & im not repeating myself

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn. I also pointed out their system is not a solution and offered an alternative solution that I THINK MAY have a better chance of working. Again, I've stated all this earlier and im not repeating myself. You don’t see it but I do, its all in your wording – women destroying, women are the problem, (that’s your bias) whereas in my biased perspective, I don’t think women should be taking the sole responsibility here and I don’t appoint blame on anyone. But ya, again, I don’t see any point in dragging this out further cuz now we’re both just wasting our time arguing over semantics for the most part at this point. Lets just agree to disagree and move on; im not trying to insult you but neither one of us is convincing the either or anything so it seems.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No I do see it, I also see that you did generalize all of them and then ignored the source of their anger. Again, not saying being angry is a good thing or that its solving anything but pretending like it is not rational to be angry at the very people who tell you that your not suffering even as they hurt you is well rather absurd. Its not irrational. It may be unproductive, it might be self destructive, but its not irrational. That's what I was pointing out and you still are not getting that. You being angry at them is no different, that's what I was pointing out. Your exhibiting the same attitude towards them as they exhibit towards society then saying its wrong when they do it but justifiable when you do it. Its ironic. I'm not angry at you, I get it, an entire group of people is pissed off at how women in general have harmed them or allowed them to be harmed and as such have lumped all women unfairly into that group and that upsets you, perfectly understandable,

[hellionthesagereborn]

But by that same reasoning its perfectly understandable how they have reaceted and you essentially proving that they are justified in their view point by generalizing them and telling them that they are pathetic and irrational and that they hate women (something men get accused of at every turn by those very people who have wronged them thus putting you, in their eyes, squarely in their (feminist) camp) is not going to help. The problem didn't arise because some women exploited our natural tendencies to cater to women, it didn't arise because they exploited our incredibly gynocentric society. It arose because enough women went along with these people in attacking men and even more women stood by and either defended the woman or did nothing at all. Since that's the problem you making yourself appear like these women is not going to fix the problem, hence me stating that empathy is a far more useful approach because that is what they have lost and is what they seek.

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn
1. "it might be self destructive, but its not irrational" this is a contradiction, self destructive thinking goes against the very definition of rationality, look up both the definitions then maybe you'll see it.
2. I am not angry at them, pointing out the inconsistencies & absurdities in their thinking & behavior does not constitute any anger on my part. You can't compare me to your average MGTOWer because most of them hate women (and this is based off what most MGTOWs I've encountered have admited), I don't hate anyone and that includes MGTOW. Also, Insults and/or criticisms =/= hate
3. I already stated I empathize with them, it's that I just don't sympathize with them. They are two different terms.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, its not. Rational is associating things in a logical manner. They see women file for divorce and steal a mans money in the process, so they associate marriage with bad things. Its quite logical. The self destructive part is the fact that they are not solving the problem at large, they are avoiding it. Yes I know that empathy and sympathy are different. But you saying you empathize but then attacking them and saying they have no reason to feel the way they do, even as statistics show they very much do, is not empathy nor sympathy. But what ever do as you will, its not productive, its not efficient and its inevitably going to add more fuel to the fire but clearly your not understanding why (ironically no different then them not understanding that walking away isn't going to save them or any one ). Do as you will.

[Volvagia]

@hellionthesagereborn
self destructiveness can not be rational because to be rational would require being reasonable and logical, please point out how a MGTOW getting fucked over by divorce by a limited # of women now deem the entire practice against men. Now that's just an example, I dislike marriage too but my reasons are not rational, your average MGTOWer will base this off his personal anecdotes and there's a reason why anecdotes aren't considered to be proper evidence; they're fallacious.
Empathize means to understand their feelings, I understand their feelings because I have experienced them; this doesn't constitute sympathy.
I never stated they have no reason to feel they do, please point out where i stated that? I stated their reasons are irrational hence why I dont have sympathy for them.
The only person failing to understand anything here is you.

[XRabbitHeartX]

Majority of times the woman says she feels indifferent or doesn't care and then she gets attacked. This has happened to me every time. Mgtow's wants to see women upset over it when in reality most of us couldnt care less. It doesn't mean anything. Just less bitter men in the dating pool which is a win for us. A good natural weeding out the bad seeds system 👌👍

[MakaMoon]

Thank you! These guys are pretty much male feminist who hate all women because their little feelings were hurt By bad women

[PatriarchalOppressor]

Modern marriage is a trap to force wealth and power from men (the savers/producers/maintainers/protectors) to women (the spenders/human sacrificers/net tax losses/grown children).

The whole concept of marriage used to be centered around a contract in which men paid women (supported them and the children) for sex and loyalty for purposes of creating the next generation. It used to be that when a woman left her husband, that was it. She got nothing because she withdrew from her side of the contract. Under feminism, women can withdraw from any responsibility to the former contract, withdraw all support for the husband, and THEN force men's wealth and power to herself. That's called a CON-GAME. THAT'S MONSTROUS. THAT'S SOCIALISM. T HAT'S INDENTURED SERVITUDE. THAT'S SLAVERY.

The point of MGTOW isn't to anger women. Women have nothing to do with it. The point of MGTOW is to educate men on the CON-GAME and save them from financial and legal SLAVERY/RUIN to women & the state. The point of MGTOW is to ruin women's little con game.

95% of first marriages end by year 10. The vast majority of alimony, asset division and child support flows from men to women.

I'm of the MGTOW mindset. I couldn't care less what women think of me or about me. I don't need them. I don't want them. THEY DON'T MATTER TO ME. What I care about is DESTROYING WOMEN'S USE OF AGGRESSIVE STATE FORCE - THAT WHICH WOMEN RELY UPON TO DESTROY MEN.

It's men who built & maintained all upon the earth. Women have built exactly ZERO substantial structures. It's men's lives that were trafficked, sacrificed and disposed of in war for women's and the state's benefit. HOW VERY HITLERESQUE & STALINESQUE. THAT'S HUMAN SACRIFICE. THAT'S THE EPITOME OF EVIL.

Cultural misandry, gynoicentrism and male disposability dictate that men enter the marriage trap for the advancement of women and her true husband, the state. MGTOW are here to ruin women's and the state's con-game by educating other men.

[Volvagia]

tfw u take too many red pills u start spewing bullshit outta ur mouth

[MakaMoon]

I CAll bullshit

[normalice]

personally, the mgtow thing strikes me as a bunch of guys who can't get laid, but they don't want anyone to know about their lack of sex appeal, so they make a big thing out of letting everyone know that they are choosing not to get laid.

At least, that's the target audience for the mgtow. The leaders/founders of it are more likely people who were upset over the rise of feminism and wanted to make a counter-movement in an attempt to nullify it - if not by creating direct confrontation, then at least by giving the impression that mgtow was silly, thus all movements are silly, thus feminism is silly, too.

That or the leaders/founders were looking for another way to turn the peasants against each other, and noticed we were all seeming to lean towards thinking that maybe rape was bad. So they saw an opportunity to create some division by floating the idea that rape is actually kind of understandable, most of the time, and what about men getting raped, and thus the mgtow movement was formed..

[Whylife]

It seems both parties are missing the key arguments within the dialog. Here is a mini breakdown
1. Women do not like men who control them and prevent them from making their own choices. Men in reverse do not like women who force a certain image on them when they do not want to deal with her sense of insecurity.
2. Men no longer want to be force to continue paying legal penalties such as child support, alimony, etc. when the money spent is not going to taking care of their children, but to support the ex's spending habits. Women want their voices heard in a public and legally protected venue which will later provide the support they desire.
3. Both parties believe co-habitation will result in one party dominating the other, instead of simply... living together.
4. The mainstream feminist movement has been cast as anti-men by the media. In contrast, the media paints the same image for the mgtow movement.

My thoughts: Stop worrying about how others want to place a label or idea or lifestyle upon you. Live your life and establish your sense of self-worth. Because on both sides of the fence, men and women alike are complaining about the same things but are unwilling to reflect on themselves. remember, for the one finger you use to point at others, there are three point back at yourself.

[Underduress]

In the real world I don’t think they care or even know what it stands for yet. The sad reality is that women don’t give a crap about men, and that is evolutionary, and not something recent. So, until MGTOW actually starts cutting into manipulatable resources that affect them broadly it is only a perturbation. Their negative response is mostly, at this point, probably only due to the rhetoric.

[Unit1]

> men going *their own* way
> "we don't hate women. We just don't want to have anything to do with them. We live according to our own best interest and defy ridiculous expectations from society."
> "all women are hypergamous gold diggers, who are riding the cock carousel until they hit the wall. Pump n dump all those bitches! Women should have remained like in the 1950 when they needed men! All women will divorce rape their husbands and all men, who want a relationship with women are blue pill beta white knights, who will pay vagimoney and child support for a kid, that is not even theirs. Women are evil!!!11"

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[Unit1]

You see this is a common example why women cannot like MGTOW the way it's members present themselves. The same goes for radical feminism with it's extremists of misandristic feminazis. Of course the victims won't like it.

[karahiri]

I've never met a real life MGTOW. The ones on GaG just genuinely seem to hate women. I don't know why MGTOW guys think they're giving women a big 'fuck you'... do they think we want to be with people who are anti-relationships? ... no. so, to me, MGTOW guys are... irrelevant to my existence. I'm only interested in men seeking relationships.

[samhradh_leannan]

Yep, this is it exactly. In “real life”, if a guy is MGTOW, you probably don’t even know it. On the other hand, in the online world, MGTOW are misogynists who harbor resentment and bitterness towards women and are seeking to punish them. It’s like regular egalitarian feminists vs. feminazis who hate men. They go by the same name but really, they shouldn’t.

[chauvinistic_pig]

Hmmm. Ur opinion ir false. MGTOW subdreddit has maybe 100k subscribers. But ill be generous lets imagine USA with population of 100 million. Statistically those MGTOW men are nothing. Should females feel threatened about such movement? Nop. Cause it has really small base. Also it opens more options for females to seek guys that are interested in them. And also there will be more males that are interested in females. To sum up u r overreacting, its not a big issue.

[Edwin23]

It's funny because I didn't state an opinion. There is simply a statement and a question.

[chauvinistic_pig]

Hmm, than sorry mate. After reading your "question" i felt opinion there.

[lilaqua]

I don't think about the idea of MGTOW negatively, I think it's noble to try to work towards self improvement through stopping dating but the issue is that a lot of men in that movement have really toxic ideas around women. A lot of men who proclaim MGTOW, blame women for all world wars, along with every other negative part of humanity and preach for gender genocide, so yeah I think when women hear that they're gonna be pretty against it.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Never heard that. Are you sure your not confusing that with feminism? I have never heard a man ever blame women for wars, what they do say is that women have abandoned men, which is true (in general, obviously not all) and that the laws are completely bias and in favor of women and women seem to (again in general) have no problem exploiting those laws to their benefit and to the mans detriment. I have only seen one man who seemed to be as you describe and while he was an ass, he was the only one like that as far as I have ever seen.

[lilaqua]

@hellionthesagereborn ok, yes but you have a lot of extremists and many don't listen to reason or logic. The thing is it's probably got a nice sentiment (much like feminism) but it have morphed and warped into something toxic. My other issue with it is all these issues with legislation, why don't you campaign and try to actively change the law. I would, and other women would support you with it, but when you turn it into an anti-women circle jerk that just has no logical argument or organised message. Was this the guy you were talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Ymo5SoiAs

See, flat out lying and twisting the truth to suit his agenda. Sounds a lot like feminism doesn't it?

[hellionthesagereborn]

That's not what is happening though. They have tried to change the laws and feminist and women did not support them, in fact many of these laws where pushed by feminist groups themselves (like how NOW (National organization for women) pushed for laws that gave women greater rights to their children, that is they would be awarded custody to a significantly greater extent then men (men get better then equal custody over their children less then 10% of the time, women over 60% of the time. That's a huge disparity and it was lobbied for by feminist). Further more they do not attack women, they attack feminist and women who attack them. When Warren Ferrell was giving a talk about male issues specifically male suicide (who make up 80% of all suicide victims) they had the fire alarm pulled and where then protested by feminist. Men have been pointing these things out for years but many women and pretty much all feminist have done nothing but attack them and accuse them of being misogynistic

[hellionthesagereborn]

When they point out that men have no reproductive rights, no parental rights, no rights to bodily autonomy etc. etc. They point out that we have almost 3,000 domestic violence shelters for women (I think its 2,800 ish) but only one, ONE for men despite the fact that studies, like the CDC/NCVS showed that men are actually more likely to be abused by their spouse (and other studies showed they where far more likely to be emotionally abused and manipulated) then women are. Yet not only do women have more shelters, and hotlines, men are rerouted (who call the domestic violence hotlines) to anger management hotlines and are essentially treated as the perpetrator despite being the victim. When they point out that women are not really punished for crimes (according to studies women get only a third of the sentencing for commiting the same crime when sentenced at all), hell one woman was just allowed to go free without any punishment even though she threw a laptop at a man and then stabbed him

[hellionthesagereborn]

in the leg. Another woman bashed a guys face in with a mug because he tried hitting on her in a bar, she was not charged even though it was her second time doing this. The immediate response from most women is not unlike yours, that they are sexist and attacking women. So yes some have gotten really bitter because women hate them and refuse to listen to them when they keep trying to point out the injustices being done in our society both by our system and by women who exploit the system. They attack any one who points these out, their are women MRA's who are attacked incessantly, they are doxed and slandered. Take Casey Jay for instance, she created a documentary called the red pill. She identified as a feminist but wanted to give MRA's and MGTOWs a chance to speak without being slandered or selectively edited. Her documentary was boycotted, the ones who boycotted it never actually watched it, they slandered her and accused her of misogyny and of attacking women again not unlike

[hellionthesagereborn]

what your doing even though she did none of these things, even though she was a woman who at the time identified as a feminist. She was blacklisted, slandered had interviews which where selectively edited (this is quite common) in order to cut out the parts where she was making sense and to try and frame her in the worse possible light they could. In fact just watch her documentary, watch her TED talk, Watch her videos that she posted online and you will see she is not what feminist and the media says she is. Yes these men are angry, they are angry because they are second class citizens who are exploited and beaten down, they have next to no rights yet are told they are the evil oppressors and every single time they ty to point out all the problems that they face they are at best dismissed and told they don't have problems (even though statistics show that men are suffering in all catagories while women are not) or they are told they are evil misogynist and told to shut up.

[hellionthesagereborn]

In short they are told that if they want to deal with their issues that exist because of feminist and because of women exploiting our bias system, they have to get permission from the very people who have put them into this situation to begin with. That's not right.

[lilaqua]

@hellionthesagereborn TL;DR, but I support the issues you outline. I'm just saying a minority is the most vocal and that's why people don't like them

[hellionthesagereborn]

No you don't support them because you didn't read what I wrote. How would you know what I said? I could have called for the murdering of women for all you know (I obviously didn't). As stated the only reason why you have that is because women and feminist refuse to listen, they attack them at every turn and thus they have grown ever more angry at the complete dismissal of very real issues, again I will point to Casey Jay and her documentary the red pill as well as her youtube channel.

[lilaqua]

@hellionthesagereborn I don't have an issue with what you wrote, I skimmed it mostly but I congratulate you on your efforts. I have never attacked anyone pertaining to MGTOW. If I met someone like Angry MGTOW in real life I wouldn't even try to debate him because as I showed you he has no capability to listen. I sympathise, but I'm trying to answer your question.

[hellionthesagereborn]

But you stated they have a lot of extremist and they don't listen to logic, I then pointed out that's not really true and that they have tried again and again to address these issues civilly and they have been attacked and demonized by women and feminist. So naturally if this is what happens (keeping in mind they have been around since the 80s) they are going to become increasingly hostile because again, no one will listen and they will do everything in their power to slander them. https://youtu.be/3WMuzhQXJoY

[hellionthesagereborn]

You can also look at Warren Ferrell one of the most soft spoken and polite people in the world who is considered an expert on gender studies (even headed NOW for a time) and is now unable to work in most universities because he decided to point out all of these hypocrisies and issues men face.

[lilaqua]

@hellionthesagereborn Look the thing is i don't take a lot of what they say seriously. Not the legislation stuff but the reddit, "Women have no souls, Everything Women do Is out of Spite!" generalised bullshit that is a product of voicing your opinion in an echo chamber. You can go on and on about people not listening to you about it, but the problem is, like the feminists you've got an appearance issue. The thing is all this stuff doesn't really align with my world experience, which is the only thing I can base my opinions off.

[lilaqua]

Look, i'm trying to answer your question, "why do women react negatively to MGTOW" I'm not arguing against the movement so stop sending me these long essays talking about mens issues. I GET IT. You are preaching to the choir. I'm trying to reason why people don't listen and I think it lies in the appearance of the group, and despite what you say, I have seen some pretty toxic generalised bullshit that really looks a lot like SJW identity politics.

[hellionthesagereborn]

As I said some do but a lot of it is bullshit manipulation. As I said when people step up they are immediately boycotted. That's why I gave you that link. To each their own.

[SomeGuy1539]

I see both sides.

I would say that I am somewhat MGTOW.
Of course a movement like this would be a result of "FRUSTRATION".
Which means there is a problem.

Here is why I support MGTOW.

Because believe it or not. There are many boys who focus their whole life around chasing girls. This chasing of girls will actually lead to a lot of rejection. Which will cause a lot of resentment with boys.

These same boys will notice that the guy who is kind of a jerk will get a lot of the girls. So this ads to the fire.

What the jerks are really doing is that they don't care about pleasing a girl. They really are self involved people who have a take me as is or leave it.

This actually is what attracts a lot of women.

So MGTOW is healthy because maybe it will finally teach a boy NOT to focus on chasing a girl. To not really care about what a woman thinks about him is VERY important.

[widdershins_]

Why are so many guys in MGTOW so obsessed with women? I see so many MGTOW members online constantly ranting, raving, and going in on women but you claim to be avoiding us altogether? I don't care what you all do with your lives, I'm just confused as to why you all keep butting into ours?

[Volvagia]

mgtow logic 101

[widdershins_]

@Volvagia Exactly lol. They come for us and then wonder why we're not having it. By all means, pleease go your own way.

[Edwin23]

I'd say because a lot of men are resentful and bitter towards women, growing up being embarrassed, rejected, by woman. But yet having that biological drive to find and be with a woman.

[TheUglyMonk]

Because MGTOW movement is based on disliking women? Lol it's pretty obvious why they are obsessed with women.

[Volvagia]

@TheUglyMonk it's not supposed to be based on disliking women, it's supposed to be men "going their own way" and many MGTOWers themselves preach this yet what they say and what they do are two completely different things lol. Being obsessed with hating women isn't "going your own way" lmao

[Volvagia]

we all experience rejection at one point or another, thats not an excuse to hate half the human population lol

[TheUglyMonk]

I have yet to meet one of those MGTOW anywhere other than the internet and all the ones I've seen on the internet are like that. Maybe the movement wasn't based on disliking women but they only attract guys like that.

[Volvagia]

@TheUglyMonk that appears to be the case, it's easy to become jaded and bitter as a result of negative experiences. It's not what I'd call smart but humans aren't exactly rational creatures.

[Edwin23]

@Volvagia Wait, What?

[widdershins_]

@TheUglyMonk Same here. Although, I've never humiliated a guy or publicly rejected 1. I've usually had more positive interactions with men. Maybe it's because I grew up with a lot more male family members and I've been somewhat tomboyish but I've never pissed a man off enough for him to send him "on his way" lol.

[Edwin23]

I don't think it's that simply.
These things happen over years.

It's very easy for a young attractive female to have it go right over their head.

[Volvagia]

it's not easy for most people OP, regardless becoming a bitter shrew as a result of your negative experiences instead of growing and learning from them isn't smart. Instead, it's weak because it's so easy to do.

[TheUglyMonk]

This site is just weird, l read questions like "Why are all pretty women bitches?" And the majority of the responds from guys are something like this "Because they think they are better than you", "Women just want your money and if you have no money they won't be with you", "Women don't like poor men" stating them like facts... Maybe, just maybe your social skills are weak and come off as creepy.
In reality you'll almost never see girls like that. @widdershins_

[widdershins_]

@Edwin23 I get that but I've known men for years. I've grown up with them and even when they go through rough patches with the main women in their lives, myself included. They don't hold it against us. Our relationships are still positive. I guess, I'm saying that I've seen men experience what MGTOWers complain about but all that's done is made these men smarter and less prone to be taken advantage of.

[widdershins_]

I most certainly am not like that but w. e. Maybe I'm not hot enough to be a b***..
I'll live lol

[widdershins_]

@TheUglyMonk

[TheUglyMonk]

I'm not saying you are like that nor am I saying anyone is like that, just saying how people on this site talk about the pretty girls just because she didn't talk to them.

[widdershins_]

@TheUglyMonk I didn't think you were. I was just joking about how they were saying that all attractive girls are horrible people. I tagged you afterwards because I didn't tag you in my initial reply and I was responding to you specifically.

[grega239]

They r ranting about womens behavior and the justice syatem that allows it...

[Unit1]

@widdershins_ @Volvagia
https://i.imgur.com/b3AHAAg.gif
i freaking know, right? I noticed the exact same!

[thisisausername1]

That's like saying that we are obsessed over mosquitos because we say fucking mosquitos when they are being noisy in the room. Just like the noise the mosquito makes reaches my ears and influences my life and therefore behavior to start raving about fucking mosquito's, the same way the shadow of womankind influences my life and therefore my behavior. Trust me when I say that if women or mosquito's dissapeared from the face of the earth my very thoughts about them would stop overnight, not exactly your toxic con dependence from mgtows part you wish to make it appear like.

[thisisausername1]

Also if my way involves raving about women I'm still going my own way. You are the one trying to cast your shadow trying to make these two exclusive, why are you butting into mgtow like that if you want mgtows to avoid you?

[widdershins_]

@thisisausername1 The asker asked why women don't care for MGTOW, I replied wondering why MGTOW is constantly ranting "how all women do this!" and "all women expect this!" but somehow I'm supposed to sit here and be sorry for behaviours I don't personally practice and that most women don't even condone. I was explaining that I don't care about MGTOW, they seem to be really invested in women, though.

[Volvagia]

@thisisausername1 ya but constantly bitching about mosquitos or anything on the daily is obsessive lmao so that example proves nothing. "Going your own way" involves not making women the focus of your life so if you dedicate your free time to whining about teh awful femalez cuz they hurt ur fee fees is essentially making women the focus of ur life. Like fam if u wanna go ur own way then be my guest but if ur gonna be a cunt about it, expect to be criticized.

[thisisausername1]

@Volvagia So a legitimate reaction is what you call obsessive, then obsessive is fine. And if you made a movement about sleeping you would have to get rid of that mosquito noise first, not going directly to bed to sleep does not mean you are not about sleeping. Also you still try to regulate what mgtow is or is not you fucking mosquito why would I just let you do that, so that you approve the "obsessively pay no mind to the actions of women" version of mgtow? aren't this version and the motivation to follow it contradictory?
When it is taboo to talk shit about women I'd say mgtows put their actions where their mouth is by going in a way that says "forbidden"

[thisisausername1]

Female wishful thinking version of mgtow*

[Volvagia]

@thisisausername1 Im not deciding what MGTOW is - the definition I gave is based off what so many MGTOW's themselves will you so I'm just basing it off that. LOL talking shit about women isn't taboo on the internet, its fairly common place but point is, its contradictory to the movement in theory and it accomplishes nothing except making yourself and the entirety of MGTOW look bad hence the negative reputation y'all have acquired.
If I'm the mosquito, you're a frog like most of these other mgtow's cuz all you guys do is REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE femalez!!!

[thisisausername1]

@Volvagia the only dogma for mgtows is to not get married so I don't know what you are talking about. The rest is you repeating yourself so I'll point you back to the sleeping/mosquito example until you get it or stop pretending you don't.

If it not taboo why are women finding out about mgtow for the first time so shocked to find even slight hints of actual mysoginy? They don't even bother crying misoginy like they always do for some reason and there would be no better reason to cry about it. Is it just the shock or that the illusory taboo is shattered so its wasted effort to do so?

You are trying to make it appear as if looking bad to you is important fucking mosquito. Its not.

You wish that's all I do. Its just that your existence makes each day imperfect. That's all I reeeeee about
limited number days that could be perfect but are not. If it was a meteor making them imperfect I would reeeee meteors so don't flatter yourself its not about you.

[Volvagia]

@thisisausername1
1. the definition I used is the one I heard most often but each mgtow faggot is gonna have his own spin on it. To you its not to get married but for others it might mean to not date women or even talk to them; your definition doesn't overrule other ones "so don't flatter yourself its not about you"
2. I get your mosquito example but that doesn't make it any less retarded
3. lmfaooo mgtows been around for a while now buddy sorry u just joined the internet but I've known that shit for years, most of us ain't shocked.
4. if looking bad isn't so important to you then y the fuck r u wasting time bitching about criticisms over the movement? You guys are a fucking joke lol

"your existence makes each day imperfect" aww its nice to know how I have so much power to influence your life even though I dont even know you lmao
Keep REEEEEing tho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dUCyClD_y0

[thisisausername1]

@Volvagia you keep repeating things I just addressed, it won't make them more legitimate any time soon.

How exactly is it retarded?

Again this is not about you. The question was nowhere near "how did you personally know about mgtow".

Looking bad to the likes of you is not important, looking bad through you to men that could be saved is.

Of course you do have, this society is all about indirect influence, do you see anyone directly ripping heads off? So the more of a devious little shit you are the more influence you have. In this society you have influence over me because you will can cry rape to have jailed while I can't bash your skull till I can snort it.

[thisisausername1]

How long*

[Volvagia]

@thisisausername1 gave MY opinion in regards to the topic; i don't care that u dont care mgtow "looks bad" to me
and I don't have the displeasure of knowing you so no I dont have any influence over ur life, can't cry rape if idek who tf u r and lmao @ the idea of accusing u of rape, rather sodomize myself with my own severed arm thanks
u done reeeeeeeing? Im expecting to be blocked soon since mgtow boyz aren't known for being level headed mature individuals lmao

[thisisausername1]

@Volvagia Was the question what's your opinion on how long you know about mgtow? No I don't think so.

That's just one example and its too direct, another one is women voting. Since you are the majority and a hive mind suddenly I have to appeal to you to get things my way, major indirect influence. But with mgtow I stop pretending that the vote of 2 cripples on a wheelchair that i rip their hearts out easier than sleeping after taking sleeping pills is stronger than mine, same thing with women.

Would you rather accuse me of not rape? That would mean I willingly had sex with you for your pleasure and I'd rather sodomize myself with my own severed arm.

Seems to me you are the one referring all along and been projecting.

[thisisausername1]

Reeeeeeeing*

[Volvagia]

@thisisausername1 what am I projecting exactly? I fully realize that im a sarcastic cunt. lmao I dont subscribe to politics nor do I vote so ur still wrong there
you're still missing the point smartass, look at the fuckin title of this question --> "Why do many Women react to MGTOW so negatively?" and to this, I answered the question with MY OPINION (HENCE MY PERSPECTIVE) talking about how its perceived as negative (and some share my view while some others dont). Me criticizing something =/= making it all about me (whatever the fuck thats even suppose to mean in this context)
im only repeating myself cuz u can't seem to comprehend this simple concept.
can't believe I had to break this shit down
And you say you dont care MGTOW "looks bad to me" lmao buddy u clearly do care otherwise you woulda fucked off a long time ago

[thisisausername1]

@Volvagia now you are just playing stupid. OK I'll play along, you adressed my question that was general for females when you went ahead and made the answer about you for something irrelevant, you weren't addressing op question with your personal opinion.

If I cared about your opinion I would have fucked off to make it appear as if I don't care about your opinion. Since I don't care about it I will fuck whenever I feel like, just like I won't stop talking about mgtow because you say I'm not going my own way when I talk about it. I'm going my own way therefore I will stop talking about it whenever I feel like.

But wouldn't your perspective of how should someone react when they don't care about someone's opinion apply to you? Why haven't you fucked off yet. My opinion must mean a lot to you. Can't say I'm flattered.

[Volvagia]

@thisisausername1 LOL thats because when you say "women", I'm included in that category and I can't speak for anyone else (including other women) except for myself. I'm not playing stupid, this was a misunderstanding. And yes I did address OP's question w/ my personal opinion, its just not on this specific thread thats taking place on someone else's opinion (sry for all the notifications widdershins_)
Lolllll y so defensive tho, indifference involves not being bothered by something and ur clearly bothered when people insult ur precious little cult lol
only reason why I haven't fucked off yet is cuz I can't sleep and I like arguing with people but if u dont wanna fuck off then thats cool, i know u love talking to me fam ;)

[thisisausername1]

@Volvagia "I can't speak for anyone else" "most of us aren't bothered". Another misunderstanding perhaps?

I don't care about your opinion, if I did I would try to make it a positive one. That's all there is to it, the extreme version of it of you attacking me and me being a punching bag means that I need to show I don't care because I care. Do you let people punch you freely because it doesn't hurt?

Yea sure I do that's why I'm mgtow.

[widdershins_]

@Volvagia I get it, some people just get you going. I'd just leave him be if I were you. He seems to be intentionally egging this on.

[Volvagia]

@thisisausername1 good catch fam, I correct it from "most of us" to "I"
lol but you clearly do care about it, no matter how much you deny it otherwise why did you feel the need to bother responding in the first place? The literal definition of "indifference" is not concerned or bothered. You sound pretty bothered fam lmao in fact the entire female race bothers you so ya you clearly care a lot. Lmao I can admit I insulted you but you insulted me too, did you happen to forget the fucking mosquito comment? lol but ya anyways, im pretty much done here.
@widdershins_thanks for putting up with all this BS lol

[Unit1]

@Volvagia And they call themselves Men Going *Their Own* Way, yet they are unable to get out of their own way and keep minding the women obsessively.
Real MGTOW don't mind the women.

[widdershins_]

@Volvagia S*** happens lmao.
@Unit1 I probably haven't heard from MGTOW in the real world because there are some legit men in the group. Those are the guys who I can honestly respect, so long as they're actually avoiding relationships with women and not harassing us.

[Unit1]

I agree.

https://i.imgur.com/OX0rWkG.png

[widdershins_]

@Unit1 I'm so done 😂😂😂. I may have to borrow that.

[Unit1]

They have managed to get such a reputation, so it was expected.

Women, women, women! :>

[strangytie]

They scare me, in a way. Men who (in mgtow forums) talked about how women are a waste of money and time because they just want a quick fuck and that porn is better because you can do anything to a woman in porn. They don’t allow gay men at all, and are very big on the red pill blue pill jargon. They are so caught up in hating women that they force themselves to be sexually frustrated and depend heavily on masturbation for sexual pleasure. I just don’t understand that type of deep seeded hatred.

[Nerdking]

Sounds like feminism

[MakaMoon]

@Nerdking because it pretty much is male femi Expect filled with weird men who dedicate their time making forums in the internet’s talking about women women, who’s they say they reject

[samhradh_leannan]

I think because it is sometimes used as an act of war against feminism and progressive values. NOT always, but sometimes. There are different types of MGTOW, just as there are different types of feminism, and that’s why all of this gets so messy.

[SarahsSummer]

I'm not angry or resentful THOSE guys have stopped interacting with women but listening to some of them blame all their own and the worlds problems on women is a bit much and there's no reason to enjoy that fiction.

[agzcvlae]

tbh i never understood why men would get into mgtow until i met my boyfriend.

he told me the shit he has been through with women and they're horrible

[Vmm90]

I honestly never heard of this movement until I saw it on a post. What people chose to do with their life is up to them.

[Gypsy_x]

It really doesn't bother me. People should do what makes them comfortable.

[Richareens]

Because they tend to be sulky and complain about women a lot

[Nerdking]

Sounds like feminism

[Cursewords]

All movements like Antifa, the Feminism movement and MGTOW are just stupid. Live how you want, but joining a movement is just about getting attention because your ego is somehow bruised.

[nevermoregirl7]

I honestly don't take it seriously. So there is no negative reaction. It is a measly attempt at trying to seem like a movement with 0 results to show for it.

[kaylaS91]

Why should we react positively to men calling us manipulative, promiscuous cunts (before segwaying into reading off a list as to why they need more 'rights'... never really getting to which rights they're seeking to gain)?

[kaylaS91]

awe c'mon boys, speak up! If you're old enough to press the dv button from behind the safety of your computer screens, you're old enough to actually explain how/why you feel as you do.

[Edwin23]

I was going to reply but you kinda outted yourself out. I can already see how this is would play out if I carried on. But the first two sentences you wrote.

[Edwin23]

*By the

[kaylaS91]

oh gosh darnit!

[grega239]

Hiw about the right to not be a father given that there have been cases of women lying that they r on the pill and then get pregnant and the man is then responsible for the woman that lied about being on the pill not to mention she is legally allowed to deny him accsess to his own children and the guy can't refuse to pay child support or he goes to jail he doesn't have to right to refuse to be the father of this child unlike women... in short women can legally enslave a man for the next 20 years or more with a lie... and its not that all women do that its that all (western) women have the option to do that and the law will back her up

[hellionthesagereborn]

That's stupid. Now to be fair some do generalize and that is wrong, but never getting into which rights they are seeking? They are very specific when they claim that they are being discriminated against, its women and feminist who couldn't tell you what rights they don't have (because they have all of them). I mean honestly, if men have no reproductive rights, no parental rights, no rights to bodily autonomy (both in genital mutilation which is illegal to perform on women but not for infant males as well as laws and court rulings like Hermsmann vs seyer that states that a male is always obligated to pay child support regardless of the circumstances (hermsmann vs seyer was a court case where a 12 year old boy was sued by his female rapist (ex babysitter) for child support and she won). I think MGTOW have a very solid case for what rights they want and honestly deserve and have in fact laid it out quite clearly and specificly in great detail nearly every time its brought up.

[kaylaS91]

@hellionthesagereborn
'They are very specific when they claim that they are being discriminated against, its women and feminist who couldn't tell you what rights they don't have (because they have all of them).'

oooh. I see. so the right you men are seeking is to have absolute control over what women can and cannot do. Seeing as how the next right you listed is to do with sex and how it's 'unfair' that women have control over when and with whom they have a child with, I assume you mean that men should have the absolute right to abort a child whenever they please and otherwise just rape women whenever they wish to?

[Edwin23]

You make no sense.

[grega239]

@kaylas91 u made absolutely no sense in ur last comment... he made no mention of any control over women... mens reproductive rights could be solved in large part via the pill so that men couldnt get raped into fatherhood and then focred by the law to support the child they didn't want and his rapist... hope u get the point

[kaylaS91]

@grega239 ' be solved in large part via the pill so that men couldnt get raped into fatherhood and then focred by the law to support the child they didn't want and his rapist... hope u get the point'
enabling men to fall pregnant will help you feel like life is more fair?

[hellionthesagereborn]

Did I say that? No. So that was not an argument. In fact its the exact opposite, I'm saying women have absolute control over men and that's wrong, then your immediate response is to claim that the only other option is absolute control over women? This kind of shows how you think, here is a third option, people have the right over themselves. I know its a revolutionary idea, to suggest that women do not get to dictate how a man lives, that they don't get to have his genitals mutilated simply because they want to, to steal his genetic material or his money simply because they feel they are entitled to it, just as we would never tolerate this if it was men doing it to women. Your attempt to dismiss the argument by not addressing it (called a straw man argument which is a logical fallacy (you use them a lot I noticed) doesn't alter the fact that everything I said was factually correct and what you said is factually incorrect. It just makes your position look weak (which it is).

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for your idiotically stupid claim about a man being able to abort a child when ever he wishes or raping a women which by the way has nothing to do with what I said as again, I pointed out that women by law actually can rape a man when ever they want with no repercussion, and they can in fact abort a mans baby whenever they want without his consent (in fact one could say that you know that I am right because clearly when these rules are applied to women instead of men you see it as a terrible and horrible thing so you at least understand that its fundamentally wrong you simply don't care as long as it benefits you). Further more rape was never brought up but since you did, less then 1% of all abortions are due to rape so that's a non issue, and according to FBI statistics you have a 99% chance of not being raped, that's right a 99% chance of NOT being raped, so again that's a non issue. The irony is that your playing the victim card, trying to portray women as victims

[grega239]

Dont bother... she has no idea what ur talking about

[hellionthesagereborn]

(despite being "strong and independent") and portraying men as oppressors while exploiting the natural biological drive that both women and especially men have that pushes them to protect women. See if the world worked like you say it does playing the "i'm just a helpless woman" card wouldn't work. It does ergo what your saying cannot be from a rational point of view, be true. Men are mistreated in society every statistic shows this (80% of suicides, 80% of homeless, less then 40% of college graduates, 4x more likely to drop out of school (thanks to the feminization of education), 98% of combat deaths, 97.5% of a workplace accidents and deaths, etc. etc.), our laws show it (paternity fraud is legal, stealing a mans genetic material is legal, etc.). Their is no argument here, your wrong period.

[madgoat]

If true, it's probably because MGTOW doesn't further their aims, and the members are often less than flattering of women.

[Anonymous]

MGTOW is the mirror image of feminism, and women react to MGTOW the same way all of society reacts to feminism... it turns their stomachs.

[grega239]

Except mgtow doesn't have the power of influencing laws and politics like feminists

[Kuraj]

Because they don't understand MGTOW, much in the same way you don't.

[Dimmu]

This is one of the few questions that girls answers more than guys
It's said fear is the strongest motive

[Anonymous]

"Why do many women react to MGTOW so negatively?"

Why did the slave masters react to the abolitionist so negatively?

[grega239]

Ok u have no clue qhat im saying... bye

[grega239]

Ignore... i miss clicked