A lot of girls seem to get really offended when they hear that a man has chosen to give up on women entirely and no longer seek relationships with them. (I'm not one of those guys, but I'm certainly sympathetic to their views.)
However, I keep hearing about more and more young women who have given up on relationships with men. They say that they have no interest in ever getting married -- or even being in a romantic relationship at all.
And yeah, I can definitely understand someone feeling that way if they have been hurt by a member of the opposite gender. ... But what if they haven't? What is their reason then? It seems a bit paranoid to me; no offense.
And what's even more intriguing and fascinating is -- get this -- they still want to have children! They want to make themselves into single parents... on purpose! I mean, who the f does that? Why?
From my perspective,... Yes, I think there are a lot of women out there who would not make good life partners. No, it's not all women. Yes, the good ones are hard to find. Yes, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. No, it's not impossible.
Now, you might ask, "What if you don't find the perfect match? What then? After a certain age, would you be willing to make compromises in order to have a partner before you die?". And my answer to that would be "Yes! Absolutely." But that's the crazy thing here. These women would say "No.". They would say "F*ck it. I'm not even looking. I'm going to give up now and not even try. F*ck all men (figuratively)."
Isn't that interesting?
So for all of the hate and disdain that modern women seem to be have for MGTOW men, they sure don't seem to be opposed to the concept for themselves.
Updates
+1 y
Thanks everyone for your wonderful comments. This is a great discussion! I appreciate the diversity of opinions.
Anyone who says they don't want love is lying. I believe, through logic, Hurt or Insecurity and Disbelief, to be the major emotions creating "GTOW" people. They don't believe it is worth the risk. And for them I would say that is true. @heartache0405 I would love to hear your opinion.
All do respect to "GTOW", you get to define and make of marriage what YOU want. Marriage doesn't have to be some unmovable term in my opinion. For every couple the definition could and should vary. The participants of marriage are not victims. And if they are, they have fallen victim to ignorance or lack of ONE mutual marriage vision.
I believe, after you meet and test the waters with someone, at some point rather early on, you need to get clear on what it is you both want. Don't waste time because it seems to be going well and feels good. I believe you must both sit down and write out an extremely detailed and clear vision of what you want the relationship to be and look like. This includes everything. The relationship but also know your jobs affect the relationship. Everything. If those 2 visions do not match up well... Then that relationship needs to be cut or remain casual. Like if she wants a government marriage and you want a non-government marriage... And you both won't budge. I'm not saying they have to match up perfectly at first but if they are way off then just stop wasting your time. You'll regret it in the long run. You both need to know what it is you want and it has to be detailed, clear, and definite. You can't just say I want a non-government marriage. That is not definite.
If the visions do match up well! You take it to the next step and try to come up with 1 vision. A vision for the relationship. If you cannot agree on that vision... then end it. Don't bother wasting your time. You know how it is going to end...
If you both can agree and strongly commit to that 1 detailed, clear, and definite vision; the planning and process begins. The process is you must become the person that NATURALLY fits and naturally can maintain that vision in a state of harmony. That should be said a million times. Both of you must be that person. You both may have different roles. You must be a master at your role as it relates to the vision. It's very deep. The main objective at ALL times should be to keep harmony with all members of the vision. The members are the girl, guy, and the kids if any. Most importantly the girl and the guy. That's the head of the snake. If they lack harmony then the vision is not realized anymore.
It sounds all very simple but you do have to become the people that fit that vision. You have to become disciplined and many people have not conquered themselves. It's like a dream. If you want to be the best cook in the world... You better be practicing and building/maintaining winning habits everyday... You can't be lazy with a bad attitude and hope to maintain best in the world status... You have to become a master of your mind. That is the only way to guarantee success in a relationship. That or either have such a boring life that no adversity could ever arise. You must become a master duo at conquering any adversity that threatens your vision. You have to be a master of self and I don't most people are or even have that as a life objective.
I do think people are willing to do all those things, but I think others don't think about it that way. I think most people just wing it and hope it turns out well. Ignorance maybe. They use the eye test. The feeling test. They base it off harmony but they often are living off 2 unwell-defined visions or aren't naturally the people that can maintain that harmony. I personally think a well defined vision is needed and a vision within the vision that is you. Harmony being the #1 thing and probably starting it off with plans to acquire that harmony and be the type of people that can consistently maintain that harmony. Without that consistent harmony... Gl. If they can't control themselves... Gl. Less issues will arise if both parties BEcome the people that can Naturally maintain harmony/fit
I don't know anything about GTOW communities but I do know to avoid love you have to be lead by fear, disbelief, evidence that is real or not real
@GaGirls, After reading your opinion, all i could think throughout was, people change. They always do. They’re one way When they are contemplating marriage and once they’re married they change and their decisions made before marriage become mute.
Also, all you really did was make marriage complicated and even more scary. Why would anyone want to go through all of that just to get married? I don’t find it to be worth the hassle at all. It all seems entirely pointless to me. But that’s just me. I may not be the only one who thinks this though.
Thank you @Jamie05rhs And @heartache0405 You kind of answered your own question. As far as the philosophy appearing complicated, it appears that way until you break it down into small pieces. Order is heavens first law. What I said is already happening to everyone. The difference is they don't have a vision of their own creation to be lead by, so instead they are being lead by the winds of circumstance/chance ( aka people change). Nothing stays the same. One is always growing/changing. Unless you mean falling out of love? In that case, I think that is unlikely if this philosophy is used.
Whatever the philosophy is placed in back off, the person should have an intense desire for it though. Desire is said to be the starting point of faith. I suppose fear can be the starting point of faith too or should one call it disbelief at that point?
"18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he." (Proverbs 29:18)
@heartache0405 Or if you meant removing/adding to the vision; I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as they both agree upon it. Once realized, adding to it probably will happen. As far as removing stuff purely due to change of mind... Well that is why it is so important to know what it is you want before you get married or even enter into a relationship for that matter. It's gotta be something you really want not a wish.
@Jamie05rhs I asked a question not long ago to the guy's. It was asking them if they could change something about females, what would you change. The guy's were very vocal to my surprise. And the last time I saw how many guys replied it was 55 and chosen by GAG as a great question. A few days later I became curious, and posted the same question to the females. They hardly spoke, only like 3 replies. So, to me it seems the guys are more willing to try relationships, but things gotta change. To me, the gal's seem as though they truly aren't interested in guy's and probably gave up like you said. As for the gal's wanting to be single mother's, that is a different ballgame. Since you aren't a woman, you don't know how we are feeling when our bodies and minds are craving to be a mom. Personally, I wanted nothing more than to be a mom since I was about six year's old. I didn't want a career, I wanted a family. Why do you think God gave us breast that can produce healthy nutrition to our babies? He didn't give the guy's the same option did He? I am guessing that the women that choose to be a single mom have a lot of money to raise a child. Year's ago it took two million, including college. Today I am sure it is a lot more money. I was married when I was 20, had a baby at 24. Then after our son was born he decided he didn't want to be married anymore and walked off into the sunset. No child support either. So, I raised my son on a secretaries hourly wage all by myself. We hardly much of anything, and didn't always have family around. It was hard, but we made it even though my son has learning disabilities, we both made it. Also, another take on this subject is a hat gay men get married and adopt children so they can have a family. Lots to think about here.
@sage2021 Yes, I totally get the biological desire to be a mother. But you yourself were a single mother (through no fault of your own). And it was hard; you admitted that. So that's why it just doesn't make sense to me why any woman would set herself up to be in that situation intentionally. You know what I mean? Especially with all of the problems that kids face when they don't have a father in their life. Did you know that around 90% of men in prison were raised without a father?
@Jamie05rhs I have stated before that I don't know how anyone would want to bring a child into this world because the world had changed and is violent and lots of crazy people out there. Since I am what they call a fatherless daughter myself (my dad abandoned us when I was 4) I can honestly say that all children need a GOOD father in their lives as a family not a Disneyland Dad that come around once in a while to take you somewhere for a few hours. It isn't just the fact of having a lot of money to raise a child, it's a lot more than that! They learn from a good father and get skills, financial support, love, and protection, and a lot more. Especially if they happen to end up with a single mom who gives her cellphone most of her time and the child ends up without a whole mother's attention. It's like having a part time Mom on top of being a single mom? What child would be happy they were ever born? I'm sorry if I offended anyone reading this, but I suffered all my life because I am a fatherless daughter.
@Jamie05rhs thank you for being so compassionate toward me. And I am happy that you agreed with my opinion. I was writing it from my ❤️. Take care buddy😊
Ok, read through everyone's comments here now. I see a lot of misinterpretation (of you, and what you presented) and a lot of just flat-out disagreement. But I think that everything you said is spot on. It's a bizarre hypocrisy. Denial of it wreaks of lack of objectivity. I'm sure there are numbers to support it, somewhere, but I'm not going not waste my time trying to dig them up. The situation is quite clear. Females are preferring to be single rather than be in a relationship, or with a man, they deem less than preferable. That's it. It's fact, not fiction or opinion. Well written, Jamie.
And yeah, I admit that I also prefer to be single than be with a woman who I find less than preferable. But that's not even what's happening here. These women don't want to be with ANY man, period.
I've done a bunch of polls in my time here and the majority would prefer a relationship. But they are not willing to compromise on what they think are necessities and deal breakers, so they don't actively pursue any relationships because they don't like the inventory, so to speak. I think the percentage of WGTOW is growing (and add to that covid limitations), but when I polled, the ideal was a relationship. But with an ideal man. Otherwise, fuhgedaboudit. They are not motivated.
You will find that a lot of these women you talk about happen to not being raised by a healthy masculine father or father figure. You will find that these women are most if not all been raised by single mothers. Not to forget to mention the gynocentric views and modern feminism that have intoxicated western society. It's not a coincidence that this issue boomed after marxists took over feminism and created the toxic feminism we know today that is destroying western society (and other societies to a degree as well).
These women are in conflict with their nature and their political views. They are conflicted between what they truly want as women as to not losing face in the eyes of other feminists. Becaue we all know that housewives are looked down on. Or women who are submissive and take care of the kids and their men are also been booed by feminists. Yet ironically these happen to be the women who are the happiest. Many who walked the road of feminism and thinking about becoming singlemothers either have seen the light before it was too late, or are now regretting the choices and are crying over the consequences.
I say, let them suffer on their own. Leaves more quality women for us men to find. And I'm happy to have found someone who is the complete opposite of these bozos. If I have kids, it would be within the context of marriage and I'll do my utmost best to protect them from the brainwashing the modern feminism (like letting them go to a a more conservative school such as Christian or even a private school).
I really don't want to enter a debate like last time, but answer me this. If a guy goes mgtow, he will be shamed saying he is bitter, can't get laid, is toxic, just doesn't accept that he can't control women, etc. He is shamed for it. Yet all of it are assumptions. So when you say that WGTOW are in conflict with their nature, are brainwashed, were raised by single mothers and didn't had a male role model. Aren't you making assumptions too? Cards on the table, some mgtow and wgtow both fit in the the stereotype like a glove. Not all right?
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 I was speaking primarily about women who want to become single mothers by WILL. So your question to me is actually misplaced, to begin with
@TruthBringer Yeah; but in response to your original comment: I'm not even talking about being a housewife (which I don't even want, personally. But to each their own.) I'm talking about girls who don't want ANY relationship of any way, shape, or form at all.
Very well than change "wgtow" in my question for "single mothers by choice". I mean, is it so wrong to want to be a mother and have no interest in a relationship?
@Jamie05rhs Like I said, my comment was meant for those who want to remain single mothers, which happen to be women who do not want a relationship (at least not with a man). Women who want to remain single for other reasons would depend on the reason what kind of person that would make them. But for the women who talk shit or have a bad opinion about MGTOW but yet follow the same concept are indeed hypocrites who like to engage in double standards (yay for me, but boo for them). You will find that many of these women have modern feminist views
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 "I mean, is it so wrong to want to be a mother and have no interest in a relationship?"
Yes I think that is insane. Not for the woman, but for the kid (s). You know damn well what research says about kids growing up in singlemother households compared to kids who are raised in a stable nuclear family. Wanting to bring a child to life but deprive them of a father is a selfishness at the utmost level. I couldn't care less about a woman not wanting a relationship. I care about the kids. These are the future of societies. Fuck them up, you fuck up the future directly or indirectly. And much of the damage caused by previous generations are felt today
@TruthBringer "my comment was meant for those who want to remain single mothers". Okay, but I'm not talking about them, either. I'm talking about women who AREN'T currently single mothers who want to BECOME single mothers.
@TruthBringer Well, there is a big difference, though. If a woman becomes a mother and then becomes single, you can't really blame her for that (in most cases). At that point she's just doing the best she can in her circumstances.
While the kids are more likely to have problems if they are raised by a single mother, being statistically more likely doesn't mean it will happen. Of course if the difference between single parent households and dual parent households were immense I would agree with you. But they are not. For example. Children raised in a single parent household are "17% more likely" to dropout of school. In 2019 the overal dropout rate was 5.1%. Meaning children raised by single parents have 5.9% chances of droping out. That "17% more" is a raw 0.8% difference. If you see many similar stats you will have the same results. So, for a small percentual difference, a single mother or father, should choose for the sake of the child to not be parents? The difference exists, sure, but is not big. So why the worry. Unless you advocate that just 1% should be already enough to dissuade the idea. Which I disagree, but that is the debate on our values.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 Nobody said it is an absolute guarantee that it will happen. The fact that there is a statistical disadvantage is already reason to find it repulsive. Not to forget to mention that a child is deliberately being deprived of a FATHER and a masculine role model. It's one that the dad walks out on the child and a second to actually deprive the child from a chance to have that at all. What the stats don't always tell you are the emotional and mental shortcomings that come with the absence of a father that experts talk about.
What surprises me is that you actually advocate for this given your own history being raised by a single mother. But of course, you don't know what you're missing. And I'm saying this with full confidence that because you advocate this and act like it doesn't really matter, that makes YOU part of the problem.
I'm honestly not in the mood to discuss this OBVIOUS matter with someone who is deliberately downplaying the cruciality of the topic. Especially when this someone is notorious of doing it with other important subjects. So advise you to leave or terminate our chances of interacting altogether in the future.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 Not to forget to mention that you think these stats because they are "low" in number would seem nihil, but spreading them across millions of people would actually make the actual result in actual amount (of people) quite significant. I'll leave you with this final advice: Quit advocating for bad family units and start advocating for ones that have proven to be the best and most healthy for children. Because so far you've shown the contrary to actually having their best interest in mind just so some selfish women can practise their "freedom". One that comes at the expense of another innocent human being at that.
I didn't disagreed with you. I showed you that while there are effects, like you said, that they are not as impactful as people think when compared to duel households.
Just one more thing, single fathers percentage wise, are growing faster than single mothers are. In raw numbers there are much more single mothers, but today single fatherhood is growing more and more.
If you count 100 thousand people from dual and single households. You would have 5100 dropouts in dual and 5800 in single. 700 people difference in every 100 thousand. It really isn't a lot. Also let's remind ourselves that single parents make for a smaller portion of the population. So to reach those 100 thousand in singles you will need to look at a much larger number of the population to have them.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 Read the last reply I sent you. I also advocate against single fatherhood (singlefatherhood that is willingly that is). Not that it actually is part of the conversation since we are talking about singlemotherhood. But even though funny enough, I remember a statistical comparison between kids growing up with single fathers vs single mothers, the ones with single fathers were doing better than the ones who grew up with single mothers. Not that it means it should be seen as okay, to begin with. Again. Read my last reply. This conversation is over.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 I think it is a lot. Especially with groups that ADVOCATE to promote it. And I definitely hope they remain as a minority as they should. For the third time. This conversation is over.
Can we just talk without it being unpleasant. I have seen that being raised by single father made children more likely to do heavy drugs compared to single mothers. But that's the only stat I saw comparing them, you can be right overall.
I don't oppose people for making the choice of remaining single either. That's their life and their business. I do however oppose people who are single and want to bring a child to life and raise them on their own. That would mean that child is doomed to be raised in a single parent household straight off the bat. A child needs both mommy and daddy who know how to properly raise. If you know this, then how on Earth are you still supporting the idea of a single person having a child?
Like I said, it is one thing having a parent die or eventually pussy out, and deliberately bringing a child in the world without one of the two crucial halves (mommy or daddy). And I'm highly against depriving them of the chance of having both halves. If people want to remain single then go ahead. But don't bring a child into your mess and giving them a disadvantage from the very start. If you want a child, you have to do what's right and what's best FOR the child. Not becuase you oh so liked to have a child and still go for it despite it being at a disadvantage. And that is to make sure you have a partner of the opposite spectrum to raise it where both masculinity and femininity are part of their lives.
It doesn't seem like you're comprehending you're not really sure of the severity. of the situation. And you've basically proved my point that you're DOWNPLAYING the importance of the situation. For one, you brought a starting number of 100k. Last time I checked the US alone has more than 333 MILLION citizens. Do the math. Now add the numbers of the rest of the world and you will see a staggering number. You've pretty much played yourself with your "700 is not a lot of people" comparison. When in reality, you've litterally described the RATE being FAR HIGHER on the side of single parent households even despite them being the minority. That alone should be a reason a red flag. And therefore you've basically made my argument for me. Thanks for that.
Either you don't know the severity or you're in your feminist ally-mode again. Have a good night
I said 700 difference per 100 thousand. Not 700 in the entire country. The US has about 80 million children under 18. Let's put the chance if 100% are one or the other. You will have a difference of 560 thousand. 560 thousand amongst 80 million is not a lot. The rate is still the same. 5.1% to dual and 5.8% to single. And it will continue to be the same regardless of the amount of population you want to consider.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 You bring 100k in order to make the actual number look trivial. This is called a manipulation attempt. If you take the true amount, it would overshadow the number you call to be trivial. Your views on what is and what isn't a lot is not only something I do not agree with, but also irrelevant to the bigger problem at play. We are living in a time where these outcomes you claim to be "little" are being PROMOTED. So in a decade, you will see a lot MORE instances like this. So as I said. you're obviously downplaying the importance of the situation. And for that, you are part of the problem.
If the numbers are trivial as you claim to be, then experts wouldn't find this a problematic thing, to begin with. We wouldn't see so many broken people because they grew up without the right tools and sets that parents should be giving. We wouldn't see an influx of single mothers desperate to date because they are financially strained and are either burned out or almost burned out.
Lets see: - "Children living with both biological parents are 20 to 35 percent more physically healthy than children from broken homes (Dawson)." 20-35% seems trivial according to you.
- "According to the U. S. Census, the poverty rate for single parents with children in the United States in 2009 was 37.1 percent. The rate for married couples with children was 6.8 percent. Rector called marriage one of the greatest weapons against child poverty." 37.1% vs 6.8% "nOt a lot".
- "Today 1 in 4 children under the age of 18 – a total of about 17.4 million – are being raised without a father and nearly half (45 percent) live below the poverty line (U. S. Census Bureau)." 17.4 million risking these stats. "nOt a lot".
- "Around 49 percent of single mothers have never married, 51 percent are either divorced, separated or widowed. Half have one child, 30 percent have two."
- "Single mothers are more likely to be poor than married couples". A poor parent will raise children in a financially poorly way. And you're sitting here promoting this.
You can stop your two-faced bullshit. You don't care about the wellbeing of kids despite claiming to be "aware" of the dangers. You're just sitting here catering for women's 'rights' when the issue at hand is far more serious than a woman having the right to have her cake and eat it too at the expense of another human being. I'm done with you.
never argue with someone who believe "wgtow" is a thing because it will never be a thing to begin with, we all know women do not have the mindset to live up to the mgtow philosophy. and even if wgtow was a thing it will just pretty much confirmed that feminism was a total failure after all
@CasaNorba Thanks mate. And don't mind the neutered male feminist. He is trying to desperately making him point to downplay the severity of the damaged caused within society by (mainly) women. Even if it means pulling massive strawman arguments and making up random numbers. That's literally all he and his kind can do, argue with logical fallacies. As long as it is to cater to the feminist agenda. I'm not going to allow that under my posts.
I’ve never really seen women getting offended by the “mgtow”. There are a group of people from both genders who can’t wrap their head around people wanting to be alone and do things by themselves and for themselves (from this post I’m assuming you’re semi in that group).
I’m willing/planning to pursue romantic relationships but I have no interest in getting married or getting impregnated by a partner. I’m 50/50 rn about having kids in the future but if I do I’m 100% going to use a sperm bank. Recently I've witnessed an increase of men saying marriage is only for women and they get nothing out of it and complaining about paying child support or their partner “trapping” them with pregnancy so it’s like why deal with the chance of that headache. I’d rather go into motherhood knowing from the very beginning that I’m going to do it alone and being financially and emotionally stable/secure on my own. You inevitably end up leaning on your partner for emotional support or financially if yous are doing something as simple as sharing bills. Being inlove clouds your judgment. You and your partner can be madly inlove, you can get pregnant, both of yous could want to keep it and he could pull bitch mid pregnancy and leave. Too late to get the pregnancy terminated and even if you could or explore the idea of adoption it’s probably not an easy decision to make if a bond is already forming. Bills you were splitting with your partner are suddenly all your responsibility so now you’re barely making ends meet. Having a baby is a huge deal and now you’re going through a breakup with a bitter ex that is now blaming you for everything and mad you are having his child and that emotional support you had is pulled out from under you. Hypothetical or not that situation I just described seems to be the case for most single mothers. Maybe it works out having a kid with a lover but I have little faith in men and I’m not willing to take those risks.
@hhadeshatesme I totally understand what you're saying. So I guess the main reason why you would do that is because you don't trust men to be reliable; right?
Yeah and I just wanted to clarify that I’m not trying to shit on all men or anything lol. There’s obv still plenty of great guys but it’s definitely a gamble
They seem offended to me. The way I hear them talked about they may as well be terrorists.
As for the rest of what you said, I disagree. A child should have two parents and that should take precedent over the other potential issues you raise, as well as over other concerns like being bored with the relationship, falling out of love, and generally not committing. Those issues should also be further mitigated by choosing a good partner and by being as committed as you can to the child yourself; choose carefully.
@Nomoturtle i said “I’ve never really seen” wasn’t stating it as a fact that women aren’t bothered whatsoever. “Be careful with choosing a partner” if it were that simple there would be a lot less single dads and moms
There's a lot to unpack here as you asked a very detailed question and I don't want to write a novel so I'll simply say. This is a question I answered just the other day. And I don't like generalizing so know when I say this I know there are exceptions to the rule. But women don't see their hypocrisy when it comes to this. Guys are supposed to treat their feelings like glass. But most don't even think we have feelings (unless they're in love with us). They can treat us any way they like and their attitude is we're still supposed to pursue them and if we even think about doing different they get angry and call us inferior as though it's supposed to be encoded into our DNA or something. But to answer your main question "why are they more mgtow then men"? Because Feminism has allowed it. Don't get me wrong I'm all for equality. But women are NEVER going to think like men. Ergo we'll never be the same. So equality is nearly impossible to achieve with 2 different sets of expectations. Women want careers and that's fine. But you can't take away a man's livelihood and then criticize him for having less. I'm fine if all women decide swear off men. It really isn't going to change my life any. But like they say to some mgtow men. Stop complaining then. Lol
My problem with mgtow incels is that that they only bitch about women non stop. Look at mgtow youtube channels that mainly make topics about women where they hate women. Go on your own way WITHOUT bitching about women. Then the problem is that many western men waste their women's youth and bodycount but then complain about not finding young women. If you are not going to marry her, do not waste her youth and bodycount. many western guys dont want to wait till marriage although this is the safest way for women to know that the man does not user her for sex. So i can understand the frustration of western women but this does not mean women are perfect but the question is why women choose to be single etc. Then many women want to have kids. So i dont understand your point. It is biological. Furthermore, men cheat more in their 40s than women according to statistics and this why many western women divorce their husbands and become single mums.
I guess I've sorta done that I am a single mother and by choice. I never thought of myself as worthy enough of a relationship and that no guy would ever want to get with me for the long haul. But since I was 4 I've wante fto be a mother and wanted kids. She's my everything and I would do everything I can for her. Maybe in the future I would find a partner to live with, maybe not for a long while, but I knew what a loving relationship is and isn't to a kid but don't know what a loving relationship between couples are. So that's my reason.
Am I gmow then no I'm still hoping that one day I'll find a gut to love, but you also have the things that women only really have 16-30 to have kids before mental illnesses and deformities increase in chances, that once you add education and qualifications can leave you with 4-9 years of time. You can find love at any time but become a mother then that's time limited.
I didn't exactly said right I'm doing this to get pregnant, at the time it was for comfort as I felt like shit and was being treated like shit. But I wasn't being careful and voila I got pregnant for years I said I wouldn't never get rid of it and I couldn't keep just to give her up again and so I decided to keep her and distance myself from the people who treated me like shit.
Not too much I wasn't always being careful and even when being careful you still can get pregnant, I wasn't in a relationship or one that I would stay in. And yet I still chose to fool around
This is interesting and a good question you asked. I'm going to take an educated guess here and say that they don't really trust men. Or they don't really want to put the effort that's required to maintain a relationship. It's funny how you mentioned some women want children but they want to be single parents.
My theory on this is that they want to raise those children by themselves and they want to be able to make decisions freely and w/o anyone else's permission. They want to be able to raise their children as they see fit and don't want other people interfering with or influencing their parenting decisions.
I've mentioned before on here that I don't want children. You probably already know this if you've read my answers on some questions asking about that topic. I'm open to being in a romantic relationship and even marriage but there's NO WAY I want to be a single mother.
I am sure there is women going their own way but most of them are just toxic feminist who go a way men don't want so they end up alone. They are so unfit for relationships after that brainwash that they have no other choice. Social media really enhance the small minority dumb ideas and wrap it as a common trait. Most men and women want a healthy relationship but when they see what horrible individuals that are out there, they put up whatever guard they have against it. So no marriage for guys. Women secure their own finances instead of risking being dependent and so on.
I have answered that in other questions. Here's what I think. Women in society get more value when they are young and pretty. Young girls tend to have limitless dating options. Now women were raised for centuries to be hypergamous. Young women tend to score with men who are way above their actual league and very few charming men. Most of those charming men often go broke after a certain age, and the men who never got any attention, if have successful carrier women start to go after them like crazy. Those little old successful men thereby can choose both women from their age and lower. They can also choose similar-minded successful women. So many women will not get quality men as per their standards after a certain age. Women being hypergamous, tend to choose to be single rather than be with a guy with lower status. That's how modern society is.
Wouldn't know, I've never given up. I take breaks but have basically banged my head against the relationship wall, while going through relationships, in what sometimes seems like a roll of toilet paper. Sometimes it me that has the issues, sometimes its him.
Keep in mind, even if someone, man or woman would not make a good life partner at that exact time in life, people change and given some time, few months or few years. They might make a pretty good one. The reverse could happen to, someone makes a good life partner and then they devolve into one that is not so good.
guys that say that they are giving up on women entirely usually do it just to say to women: Fuck you women we dont need you cause you said you dont need us anymore! Their point isn't actually to give up on women but to hate on them. My response to them is okay than leave women be. Noone is forcing you to be with them. Yet they dont wanna leave them be, but hate on them, so they lie to themselves and do that out of spite and hate. Women saying they are giving up on men is usually cause they got really disappointed and they dont wanna give up on their ideals or even if they want to settle it can be that they cannot accept lower than they can cause they couldnt be happy. Even if finding a good partner is so hard for them they still might wabt a babay and have kids, so their compromise may be having a kid without father in the picture as the relationships w men werent sustainable to them. So they can accept not having a man in their life but not not having kid (s).
@Aakash_Hangargi well this has been my experience and I never said it applies to ALL, like that is constantly something that needs to be highlighted also majority of men says they want only sex or something casual Sure there are decent men wanting serious relationsips but majority in my expereince didn't want that or haven't been mature enough to even know what they want Sure there are all sorts of women out there too
@Aakash_Hangargi well i guess in my opinion men blame their unability to find a decent woman on women wanting equal rights and women their unability to find a decent man on them not performing at the level that is acceptable for them
Has anyone considered these two things. Both men and women, especially when young, have unrealistic expectations of a partner and relationships. Many people seem to expect more from a partner than they do from themselves. Secondly, many younger men are sex focussed not love focussed. That usually comes later in life for men. So, since women have become more promiscuous and it's easy to get laid, men who are motivated by sex have no incentive to be in monogamous relationships and fall in love.
@jerdanro I agree to first part, not on the second. Promisuicty depends on a person and influence only goes so far, character prevails. There have always been promiscueted women but now they are just more free about it. And no woman that rerains from sexual acts can any man want to do that as well if he is promiscueted type of person, its all down to mans character.
@jerdanro I meant women that are promiscueted always have been that way, I didn't meant all or most women. Same i said of mans promiscuity applies to women. Its really down to ones character. In the past promiscueted women have just been more shamed about it so they hid it and refrain more.
Why do I only see this topic on this website that's? If seems like it's the last place where people of either sex who want to go their own way would be.
Answering your question - yes, there are both men and women who don't want a relationship. Plenty of autistic people for example. People who are asexual or are just not interested in having children, which for many is the reason for finding a partner. No need to turn it into an ideology, that's when things get toxic. Just do you and stop making it everybody elses's problem.
Because social media destroyed a lot of people’s minds by brainwashing them with bullshit knowledge , if everyone put theirs phones down and looked at the world around them they would realize that social media is a crock of shit , Not everyone cheats and not everyone has affairs , people that get into relationships should put their fucking phones down and focus on each other instead of focusing on stupid shit that they see on social media , This world has become a selfish piece of shit world , people only care about themselves and what is best for them , Social media feeds our heads with useless knowledge that everyone is pretty much an asshole and everyone cheats , it’s a load of horse shit
any reasonable possibility of an argument for this ends right there
" I keep hearing more and more women..."
you hear what you want to hear, you see what you want to see
you interpret what you want to interpret and then you say what you want to say
"women being more MGTOW than men" is just not a thing... it's just a lazy generalization based on your biased perception of some personal issues you must have about yourself therefore with others , nothing else...
There are far more MGTOW than WGTOW out there. Apart from those in the online community there are more mgtow in the real world that people don’t know about. I’d consider myself one of those types. Sure I’m active online but not in any mgtow communities online. by the way, mgtow isn’t a movement people. It’s a lifestyle choice often temporary. Why is it more accepted for women to bang a guy, have a kid and kick the father to the curb to become a single mother? This is why I believe we live in a gynocentric society. Fathers and men in general are nothing but tools for women. It’s no longer the man who is the head of the household anymore. He’s always subservient to their wife. “Happy wife happy life” is why I’m never getting married. Why should the wife be the only one happy? I’ve bumped into too many unhappy married men because their opinions and judgements aren’t taken seriously let alone into true consideration. It’s always second to their wives.
There are two kinds of women in General the one who initial bendsover and later make you bendover and other one she bends you over from starting itself But in the end in both scenario you are the one to bendover 🤪
I’m not part of either group I find feminism to be redundant, irrelevant. And just a haven for hurt women with a chip on their shoulder and man haters to spread hateful and toxic views.
Mgtow suffers from similar issues with a lot of its members.
personally I’m not gonna generalize and demonize an entire gender. Because of some bad experiences. That’d be denying myself happiness and living a miserable and pitiful hate filled life.
This is very well said! Sadly, a lot are indeed bitter and broken on both sides. There is a lot of hurt and to be honest, even though much of that hurt is justified, I still wouldn't give in to it either. I actually use the knowledge coming from both ends and it teaches me what kind of women I should avoid and whom I should seek. Putting that knowledge to action paid off well for me. Glad to say I found a wonderful girl who is on the same line as I am in life
Been redpill/mgtow since 2015. One of the 1st things I learned is mgtow is not a movement its a philosophy. So it means something different to everyone who hears it.
The red/blue pill analogy is very true. Take the blue pill and stay asleep forever in blissful ignorance. Or take the red pill and never rest again.
Mgtow isn't about hating women, or cutting ties to women completely.
You can go monk and cut all contact with women, you can play the field doing the pump and dump game. Or do what most men I think do learn to approach the world from a new understanding. Be it socially or romantically.
For me taking the RP was about self improvement, learning male and female nature/psychology. Learn how scewed the laws are. And how society views men sat in
As for women Hypergamy Gynocenticm Female reproductive strategy Why women like certain types of men. Daddy issues Shit tests The wall Female privilege
For men. The whole alpha beta thing Male mother need Male disposability Simping Male utility/ being an orbiter. Game Self respect and self improvement The black pill
Socially? The gyneocentric matrix Feminism Socio sexual hierarchy The double standards better men and women The biased laws family court, marriage license, child support and alimony. How rigged marriage is How scewed Dating has become in 2021s sexual market Why men are Feminine and women masculine today.
It's important to note any criticism of women today is seen as hate.
I don't hate women because most all of this is natural to them. As natural as breathing. Society stepped in and messed with the balances between men and women now things are completely unbalanced.
Women and men are not equals we're different. If you ask which is better. A smart person will ask at what?
@lucas262 Same here. The red pill saved me a ton of heartache and headaches. As well as finances. Can't say the same about many other guys I know who are still on the 'plantation'. Good to see a fellow red piller around here. This website needs it.
"A lot of girls seem to get really offended when they hear that a man has chosen to give up on women entirely and no longer seek relationships with them."
Maybe in your internet bubble. In the real world, no one cares about this so-called movement.
I don't know any women that does not want a loving relationship. In all of my 32 years of life interacting with women, not even a single one ever said that. However, it happens sometimes that we get hurt or end a relationship and then we want to "fool around" for a bit, but FOR A BIT. But we still want what we want, it's just that we didn't find it yet. Even engaging in casual or hooking up comes deeply from a hope that that guy will turn out to be the one.
I think it also has to do with the place where you come from. I see you're from Spain. As far as I know, Spaniards hold family and relationships at a higher regard compared to my people (Dutch) or Brits or Americans. Culture plays a big part when it comes to how family and relationships are perceived. I've noticed that cultures that are more 'individualistic' rather than 'collectivistic' are the ones that you will find men and women advocating to remain single more than cultures that are more collectivistic. SO with that being said, it doesn't strike me as a surprise that in all your life you haven't come across someone who thinks that way. I can assure you that if you come live in my country for some time (or the UK or the US) you will see a different scenario
I haven't forsaken women entirely. I'm just a lot more cautious than I used to be. And more accepting of the fact that there's so much more to life. Seek that which is less likely to betray you. That which is less likely to ever develop a terminal illness. Store up treasure in your soul, that the CCP can't steal from you.
One of my exes died of Huntington's. She was recently divorced, because her husband got tired of her. Her mom didn't think I had what it took to care for her, and chased me away.
She died last year, alone, deprived of basic needs and nutrients in a hospital that didn't care about saving her, because there was no covid money in it. Being not a relative, I wasn't even allowed in the building to say goodbye properly.
I don't want to repeat that sad story. She didn't just die, she was wasted disrespectfully. And I was powerless to do anything about it.
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