If Males All Go MGTOW and Women Decide to Go WGTOW... Aren't We All Screwed?

If Males All Go MGTOW and Women Decide to Go WGTOW...Aren't We All Screwed?

I was just thinking about this the other day.

The MGTOW or "Red Pill" movement is gaining a lot of steam lately and more and more guys are saying, "to hell with women." I totally understand where they're coming from; I have male friends who say they're so terrified to approach women for fear of being accused of doing something terrible or even illegal, they just can't risk it anymore. And I've noticed most guys who come up to me are like timid little mice, just waiting for me to flip out and call the cops because he looked at my legs or something.

So yeah, I understand it. I do believe feminism has gone waaaay too far and being an egalitarian, I firmly believe in equal rights for all, not preferential treatment of any kind. At the same time, let me add that a LOT of MGTOW guys I've come across do seem to be little more than butt-hurt losers who, instead of stepping up their game, have decided to just scream "I quit!" like a petulant nine-year-old and blame all the world's ills on women. Sorry, had to get that out of my system. ;)

Anyway, what's the consequence of this? Well, it's obvious, isn't it? Women are just sort of shrugging their shoulders and going, "well, fine. You don't need us; we don't need you." And these days, given all the strides females have taken over the years (yeah, they exist), there really is no reason for a woman not to be successful and happy on her own. No reason whatsoever. Women are attending and graduating college at a higher percentage than men, women are occupying more and more management positions in the workforce, etc. We CAN do anything and frankly, we ARE.

If Males All Go MGTOW and Women Decide to Go WGTOW... Aren't We All Screwed?

But isn't all this...kind of sad? I mean, if we all just hate each other and blame each other, and men go their way and women go theirs, what's left? Hell, the only people getting into relationships will be homosexuals, right? Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, but men and women just keep driving a wedge between the sexes and it doesn't bode well for the future. The problem is that separation and blame doesn't really solve anything. MGTOW is fine in principle but there are elements of escapism and defeat in it, just as there are in any woman who resolves never to marry or even date. It's giving up, isn't it?

The worst part is this is all affecting the young people. YOUNG people are giving up. WTF is that? The entirety of your adult life is in front of you and you've already sworn off women (or men)? And you think there's nothing wrong with that? If all we have left is a bunch of MGTOWs and WGTOWs, the world is going to become a very dark and bitter place...I mean, darker and bitterer than it is already. :(

If Males All Go MGTOW and Women Decide to Go WGTOW... Aren't We All Screwed?
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Most Helpful Guys

  • Polymath
    Oh man, where to start? Ok, first off, I'm not a MGTOW, but I do know some of what they are/do, generally:

    1. MGTOW and Red Pill are not even close to the same thing. Perhaps before making a post like this you should actually try to learn about them.
    2. You start off by assuming that MGTOW are "losers" or just "terrified of approaching women". Again, you fundamentally misunderstand what MGTOW is.
    3. A lot of guys ARE afraid of approaching women because of what many women do. How many times have you seen a guy approach a girl (or you) and the girl forcefully or in humiliating fashion, rejects the guy (because he's the "wrong" guy; had it been the right guy, there would be no rejection).
    4. You're assuming MGTOW revolve around "hating women" or that they have "given up" on something. Again, this fundamentally misunderstands what MGTOW is.

    There ARE some MGTOW's that ARE bitter, but usually it's because of experiences they've had. MGTOW's are not guys that have "given up". They are guys that believe that the game is rigged against them, and that relationships with women tend to not be worth it. Since the rise of 3rd wave feminism, women have been becoming more and more unhappy, for reasons that are probably a whole other conversation.

    Contrary to what you're fatuously asserting, most MGTOW's are guys who have actually been pretty successful with women; they simply have come to the conclusion that they'd rather focus on themselves, and doing things that they like and want, rather than focusing on things for women, or that will attract women.

    Personally, I think that MGTOW's, generally, make some very good points, which I'll dare to summarize:

    1. With divorce rates well over 50%, and the overwhelming majority of them initiated by women, why would any man want to get married? Also, gold diggers.
    2. With the divorce and family courts stacked against men and in favor of women to a degree that borders on ludicrous, this makes getting married or having kids even more of a risk.
    3. **MOST** relationships with women are like being an island, and every day the ocean erodes more and more of it. You move further and further away from the things and people you like, and instead of a relationship that is complimentary and symbiotic, you get something else entirely. Also, relationships tend to cost money, and that calculation tends to be one way, even in an age where young women out-earn young men.
    4. Womens' looks have an "expiration date", and even women know this.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Maybe you should do a take explaining MGTOW is.

    • Polymath

      I don't know maybe. As I said before, I'm not a MGTOW, and I wouldn't really feel right representing a group I'm not a part of in that way. I agree with a lot of what MGTOW's espouse, but disagree with some as well. The only reason I replied to this take was because there was obvious things that were very incorrect or common misconceptions and I thought I'd correct what I could.

    • Good post, but I would like to add some things.

      Second wave feminism (1960's) led to women being able to support themselves doing easy office work. This upset the natural order of society. Their newfound money led them to seek divorces.

      The breakup of the family unit led to a rise in gang violence.

      These extra rights that females have gotten over the past half century have led their standards to become so ridiculously high that you basically have to be George Clooney to attract some women.

      Throw into this the fact that most "women" these days grew up playing Pokemon.

    • Show All
  • OlderAndWiser
    Your concerns are well founded and you have summarized the problem very well. There are some guys who truly do not know how to be in a relationship and they refuse to acknowledge any responsibility for their failures in relationships, so they call it quits with women. And there are hostile feminists who want to put a guy in jail if he commits the crime of commenting on their physical appearance.

    This behavior is reinforced by new media, the education complex, and their biases in teaching values. We are teaching children that if they are a member of an identifiable group based on gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, etc. and if they have a problem with the way they are treated, they should look for another group upon whom they can blame their problems and then demand that other group change. We have shifted far away from teaching individual responsibility and it seems like very few people want to acknowledge their role in creating their own problems in life.

    Having said all of that, I think the biological urge to mate and procreate will continue to bring men and women together. The birth rate has declined in recent years but we are far from being in a zero population growth status.
    Is this still revelant?
    • RedCar

      You're wrong. In the Angloshpere, the birth rate is below the minimum required for zero growth. Soon, most English speaking countries will revert to other migrant ethnicities. By 2050, US, UK, Canada & Australia will be mongrel nations incapable of accomplishing any national goals or objectives. Their vast war machines and nuclear arsenals will fall into the hands of naturally violent cultures. Mankind as we know it5 will not make it to year 2100.

    • @RedCar Right. The sky is falling!

Most Helpful Girls

  • TayTay21
    I totally understand why guys are giving up on women (and vice versa). This generation sucks. Most people in it are self-important assholes who have zero capacity for carrying on actual long-term relationships. It's incredibly rare to find someone who has empathy, a good heart, and the judgment to know what is valuable and what is not.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Danny01239

      Says selfie queen

    • TayTay21

      @Danny01239 Oh yes, I took a pic of myself, so I must be a bad person. You're as shallow as you are stupid.

  • Sara413
    It's a non-issue. The percentage of boys doing the "MGTOW" thing is so miniscule it makes no perceptible difference to anyone. Not to mention, most of them are quite undesirable anyways, which is how they've ended up so bitter in the first place.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Every time a man gets a divorce, a new MGTOW is born.

    • Sara413


      Eh.. Ok. Still no one's problem but his.

    • Wrong! All of of the millennial guys that I know have no interest in getting married and the divorced guys that I know are now into the MGTOW lifestyle. This is a growing movement even if they have never heard of MGTOW.

    • Show All

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What Girls & Guys Said

    it's not good
  • PatriarchalOppressor
    Wow. Just wow. Nice attempt at social shaming. Obvious attempt to get men back on the slave plantation. Might have just said, "Man up, sissies!"

    This approach isn't going to work anymore. All forms of social programming and misandric brainwashing have been catalogued. Just Google 'shaming tactics'. I can believe you tried it. Amazing people still do this.

    Affirmative Action, Title IX, VAWA, No-Fault Divorce, alimony, asset division, child support (alimony++), WIC, SNAP, De Facto Relationships, Committed Intimate Relationships, The Cohabitation Rights Bill and various other female-friendly forced wealth transfer laws and policies abound. Men's ability to compete has been removed with all forms of female-only quota systems.

    Wait until Affirmative Consent is finally made federal law and becomes official criminal law. Feminist activist judges are already using it in some courts. You'll go to jail and be stripped of wealth in civil court on an accusation alone with just a preponderance of evidence (i. e, you had sex and then broke up with her).

    This is serious stuff folks. The danger is that far too many men are vastly underestimating how this impacts their lives. Anti-male programming starts from a young age and increases in intensity as the years pass. Much of it is covert and hidden in plain sight. This is why pro-male sites/groups are so deeply shamed in mainstream media - and by the author of this question. The PTB know that if the social shaming of men stops working, it's all over for them and those like them. Women despise pro-male groups because they know it threatens their privilege over men.

    The good thing is that men are waking up to the above - globally - thanks to the decentralization of information through the internet and the rejection of social shaming, brainwashing and programming - like yours.

    Men need to stop enlisting - and if drafted - sue the government for anti-male gender discrimination and gender sexism. What we need now - in reparation for the centuries of male-only conscription and an all male front line fighting force - is a couple of centuries of female-only conscription and an all female front line fighting force. It's long past time women start fighting for their own rights - rather than relying on men's deaths for those rights.
  • skyysarahtops
    I hate feminists and I'm a girl. Feminists are just spoiled brats that think they're the fucking queen (well they aren't). Feminism has gone way out of control. I believe women should not get equal pay because once it's equal, they'll complain "I do a much better job than a man. I need more money!!" N O.
    Fuck Feminists. They'll go crazy once Hillary (the mashed potato) Clinton wins.
    Also, women who think chivalry has died, is right. Not only is chivalry when a man is respectful to a woman but it is also:

    chiv·al·ry: the medieval knightly system with its religious, moral, and social code. historical knights, noblemen, and horsemen collectively.
    "I fought against the cream of French chivalry"
    the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, especially courage, honor, courtesy, justice, and a readiness to help the weak.

    Fuck feminists. They need to get laid or have an orgasm with a guy. I heard that orgasms release stress💁 :^) kek memes
    Hate me ladies, I don't care. Stop being brats to men. We're all equal so don't be a bitch to them, ladies
  • roamer
    Are we screwed? —Not all. Social engineering is a symptom of convincing ourselves we are gods and masters of the universe, environment, biology, physics, etc. When life is perceived as very easy, and survival instincts are unnecessary to thrive, odd inversions within sexual behaviors and relationships emerge. No one seems to need anyone else anymore and having sex becomes as casual as buying a latté. A mammal population that expands under these conditions reaches a maximum comfort level and assimilate an analogy to mice overpopulation experiments e. g.: pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/.../viewcontent.cgi
    I never considered my degrees/career as a form of independence. I strive for independence from the system that I believe is very fragile and fickle by living simple with my own: water, grown and hunted food, off-grid electrical (solar-hydro), and barter options to name a few. There was this woman in the office that strutted and proclaimed her independence; and I would always simply ask, “oh did you move out of the city and start living off the land?”— crickets and silence-is-golden. Almost all women (and increasing male humans) have simply shifted their dependence from the individual, family unit and resource self-reliance to the collective government; and mistakenly, to their own chagrin, perceive it as independence.
    Our society is way over “degree-ed” and “career-ed” creating a huge virtual infrastructure of make-work jobs that produce nothing, blow out the debt and eventually hyper inflate. Society is very top heavy with “I am important”… “I am in charge” ..”I am independent”…”I don’t need anybody”…”oh by the way I need to go buy some food and my car is on empty”. This presents a very unstable, unsustainable, and fragile long term structure. The people (mostly men) that produce and bring: food, water, electricity, oil/gas, infrastructure, and other to this unstable structure are looked and spoken down to as second class citizens by an elite class of “independents”. When things go badly as they always have throughout history, one can wipe their butt with a degree and a career because only those that are handy, resource self reliant, traditional family oriented will survive and successfully procreate their offspring into future generations. The men and women separatists will simply end their genes by natural selection. No matter how convinced one is of their greatness and god like status, she/he/other is still bound by basic biology, environment, and life’s epoch.

  • Phoenix98
    That's why you completely ignore people from both groups and focus on the women or men not in those groups the sensible ones.

    Besides it's not like we're missing much a lot of feminists or at least hardcore ones are not that great looking.
    • Djaaaaaay

      Opinion owner. Great observation !!

    • Phoenix98

      @Djaaaaaay Thank you.

      Nice car by the way, like the Cadillac in the background used to own one just like it.

    • You know that this rate I see a future where men and women are legally separated and are not allowed to be with each other other because of a feminist View of men never being with women. And that may sound stupid but so does all this arguing going on between everyone about it

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  • alphadoggystyle
    One big thing you got wrong is that women are being "meh" are pretending to dont care about this. Fact is, women cannot handle being alone as well as men, and women are not as independent as men. And you describing mgtow men as whiny and giving up, well they are not anywhere close to as whiny and pathetic as most feminist women are, most mgtow guys just stopped caring about women and relationships because its easy enough to get some casual sex without commiting and less risk in doing so. meanwhile women are complaining that there are no good guys left to date and whining that guys aren't approaching them anymore. Men are turning away from marriage and women at large are trying to shame men into wanting marriage again, but failing to do so.
    Most of the tax money are payed by men in western societies, the highest earners are men, not because of discrimination, but because men are superior to women and the more productive gender. Meanwhile the only reason women are graduating at a higher rate than men at college these days is because of feminist school system and teachers favoring girls, and quotation laws etc, at the same time, many physical labour jobs exists that dont require education as incentive for guys that pay well, and women dont take this path as they are physically weaker.
    Frankly a society cannot work without a large population of hard working men, and with less children being born, the politicians are trying to solve this problem short term by allowing thousands of immigrants into their countries (and majority of immigrants are young or middle age men).
    Fact is, men can handle being without women easier than the opposite, so no, women are not shrugging their shoulders and being fine with this, they might pretend to be, but in reality they are fearing the consequences for good reason.
    • RedCar

      Short version: For men, the fucking you're getting isn't worth the fucking you'll be taking. Simple as that.

  • hellionthesagereborn
    Well first and foremost the reason why women are gaining so much isn't because of women, its because of unfair laws and an unfair system. For instance management jobs, well female hiring quotas. Their are no male hiring quotas but their are for women this gives women an edge over men and its one that is legally mandated. Then for education its because its become so feminized that men/boys are not allowed to act in any way that would be deemed masculine, in fact this is why its almost entirely boys that are put on various behavior altering drugs (something of which was never needed before our society started punishing males for being male) and in fact the school system itself has fully admitted to pandering to women. They created an environment that benefited women and harmed boys. Ironic since when it was reversed it was deemed to be sexist but when it happens to men its some how women just being awesome and men being worthless. As for MGTOW, what your saying is kind of just an example of why we have this to begin with. The problem is its a protest its men stating that women are mistreating them that society is mistreating them and the law is mistreating them. By simply insulting them and telling them to essentially just to "man up" and just keep pretending everything is fine when it clearly is not. Blame does solve things because it establishes what the problem is what the source of the problem is and thus allows us to figure out how to fix it. If we don't acknowledge the problem then its not going to get solved.
  • BellePepper
    Well first of all there no such thing as WGTOW since women are somehow capable of making their personal life choices even without a "movement".

    And it's not a bad thing when people choose to not have children several countries are suffering from severe overpopulation. There are also several people who choose to not pass on their genes to the next generation for good reason.
    • Oh? So whats feminism if not a womens movement? Seems like you didn't think that one through, to busy trying to ridicule a group without actually bothering to understand why they exist to begin with (and just to preempt you no, I am not a MGTOW I think they will fall to the same destructive idiocy as feminism, I just empathize with their reason for going that route what with everything being against them).

    • @hellionthesagereborn So we both know that I blocked your last account. WTF makes you think that I care what you think or what you say?

    • BigJake

      LOL you're delusional. Women are constantly proclaiming how they don't need a man, how they're independent and fine on their own. In fact, women have been doing this far longer than men, since about the time the feminist movement reach critical mass in the 1970s.

    • Show All
  • SaintJones
    I gave up, but it's not women's fault that women aren't attracted to me lol. That's dumb.
    That said, humans are kind of shitty (not individually shitty; every individual I've ever met has been beautiful, even if they're a bit of a prick, but as a group we're always trying to impress each other and sizing each other up which generally results in something bad happening). I wouldn't mind seeing the species as a whole get knocked down a few billion members over a few generations, and let the rest of Earth recover and shake us off like a bad cold. That won't happen, but it's a nice thought. We wouldn't be "screwed" though or go extinct.
    Another important caveat here, is that this is only a VERY limited phenomenon in Western Nations and East Asian Nations. Africa, Latin America, the Middle East and Southeast Asia are all still baby-booming. If a man wants to quit trying to date women, then he's just joining the majority of men in history who never got laid either (think about the implications of most of human society being polygamous throughout history, even pre-history. Most men were left out of the breeding pool). And if a woman wants to avoid it to advance her career, then good! Even throwing out the wonderful things that woman is going to achieve, (which you shouldn't but you can, and still have a pretty good deal) women are the limiting factor for growing a population, and the human population on Earth right now needs to shrink, as it's not sustainable, so we could use a little less of our "limiting element".
    The concept you're referring to though is called the "Malthusian Equilibrium", and I'm a little rusty, but I believe the basic crux of it is: as women are educated and spend the first 10-15 years of their adult lives advancing themselves and their career, they spend significantly less of their "fertile years" having babies, which is a great thing, and not only for women individually, but also the species as a whole. If people were still getting married when they were 15 and then having 12-15 kids like in the old days then we would have WAAAAAY too many people.
  • pnl86
    For a second, I thought this said "MTG," and I was like, "OMG, someone posted something about MTG!"

    False alarm. Anyway.

    Dude, just wait until Hilary becomes President. I can see it now. Can you see it now? I mean, it's obvious. The media is painting Trump as a villain, a sexual villain, who disrespects women, and Hilary will just in as "the first woman President" and issue an executive order regarding sexual assault and rape.

    Then, she's going to stack the U. S. Supreme Court with ultra liberal justices that are going to pay "lip service" to the 14th Amendment. We're going to hear the media bombarded with, "When a woman accuses someone of raping her, how come nobody believes her? It's like this uphill battle she is fighting. It's almost as if people are PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in this country. Luckily, we have an objective panel here tonight to talk to us about this topic of conversation. We have with us the Author of 50 Shades of Grey, adult film start Sasha Grey, Elizabeth Warren, and the dumbest fuck Republican we could find from our pool of idiots to present and articulate arguments for the other side."

    First question for our panel, "Without getting distracted with other crimes, should we really continue to maintain the oppressive and un-American standard of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in crimes where the victims are women and the nature of the crime somehow touches upon sex?"

    Second question for our panel, "Now, some people argue that there's some kind of danger of mere 'accusations' being enough to essentially smear someone's reputation or destroy the public's opinion of someone without an actual conviction in a court of law, Republican crackpot, what do you have to say about that?"

    RC: "Well, just look at the case of Donald Trump, you had a 70-something year old woman come out of the woodwork in the 11th hour after 30 years.. and then you had actual evidence of a crime being buried under the rug with Hilary Clinton, yet.."

    Moderator: "I'm so sorry, we will come back to that maybe 10 years from now, but right now we have to move on to.."

    Look, I'm happy with the way things are going. Give women power and let them go nuts. Let feminism go nuts, seriously. Give them the shovel and let them keep digging. The world and history books needs to see what the female feminist ideas of "equality" and "fairness" look like.
  • DonRomeo
    Thanks for your post! Very ballanced considering its hard to be for any of us.

    I've been on the front line of the gender war. As an innocent civilian & victim, for about...19 years now? Wow.

    I've written many essays on the subject, and read many more related to the subject. I'd call myself a leading expert, though this reply won't do it justice, because, like most male victims of the gender war who are allowed to be, Im absolutely hammered.

    First though, the equivalent of MGTOW, is... well there isn't one. There are extremist feminazis, and they control the mass media. Because humans are infinitely stupid, they believe and obey the mass media, and thus the populace is also, either dormantly or actively, Feminazi.

    I've been a male rights supporter for such a long time that frankly, when I think of MGTOW, I think of the words 'very, very late'. And this is the 1st male equality movement in modern history. It will soon be illegalized, like everything else that concerns male rights. But it is not extremist, and it is not 'losers', as some very overprivelidged, feminine, weak excuses for men have suggested. Feminists are losers, yes. But MGTOW can be equivalated to the Black Panther movement. Except theyre not currently using force to get any results. The 'losers' mentioned are humans who have been given outrageous prison sentences, those who Amnesty International should be campaigning for, had it not been infiltrated by Feminazis itself. The 'losers' are innocent men and boys, many of whom are innocent and are in prison right now as we speak. These 'losers' are men + boys living in Third World Poverty - including, but in no way limited to, those doing dangerous + underpaid jobs, slaves, Dalits (Hindu caste system), conscripts (military slaves, effectively ghosted to work in labor camps (barracks) and living with abuse, with no income other than what makes it legal under the GCs - with the partial exception of Israel, exactly 100% of conscripts are male), the homeless (80-82% of homeless people are male), and everything that comes from being male and of too low a social/financialstatus to get your sexual and other needs met), suicides (77% of suicides are male), unemployment (of males is vastly, Vastly higher than that of females, reccession figures have only scraped the iceberg), immigration displacement (figures for native males losing jobs to immigrants is multiples higher than for females), premature deaths (why life expectancy is lower)... out of characters.
  • JudgmentDay
    NOPE, it won't be dark and bitter anymore as long as some of us choose to accept that this will become the next step in evolution, should it ever occur and happen:






    Because of this, and because why not?:



    As long as Technology, research and developments into science and engineering succeeds in various areas such as Artificial Intelligence, Electronics, Nanotechnology, Space Technology, Biotechnology and Bioengineering, it would be the end of Humanity's sole dependency upon traditional methods of reproduction such as through sexual reproduction, or surrogate mothers.

    People will be given new options, new ways to live, no longer have to ever feel any more suffering from pain, illnesses, or loneliness.

    No longer solely dependent upon another person to help them cope and provide them comfort.

    If Transhumanism succeeds then those bitterness will disappear forever. All the previous dependencies such as on love, desire, sex, relationships, will all eventually become obsolete, retro, or even possibly redundant.

    It will become an entire new era and we'll see things entirely differently, but it could also mean this, well potentially anyway, should something go really wrong unexpectedly:



    I really hope for the best and hope that I would live to see it happen. And just maybe people can take off and leave and live on their own little planets and worlds eventually because of what evolution through technology and engineering will potentially provide us, or so I hope for.
    • It will become an entire new era and we'll see things entirely differently, BUT it could also mean this, well potentially anyway, should something go really wrong unexpectedly:



      at that point it won't matter anymore, go your own way don't go your own way. Sexual Reproduction, Mating, Dating, Love, Relationships are probably going to become obsolete at that point, at least for some, if they feel they really don't need any of it anymore and rather feel none of those feelings anymore all to not feel pain, loneliness, or any other kind of hurt anymore.

    • Unit1

      Remember even if a new era is coming with a new civilization, power does corrupt. Only those with good intentions and proper qualifications (and I don't mean education-wise but rather in a selection-based type) can withstand wielding power and using it to balance everything instead of abusing power.

      Of course this all remains merely a nice bed time story or a video game or a good movie.

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  • Unit1
    We are already screwed, more so as time goes on but in no way we are endangered by extinction.

    I'm going to get downvoted by guys but I don't care.
    What you say is right. However I'm a former MGHOW actually and I wasn't very long part of it. The reason why I "joined" MGTOW is because of what you described men bewaring from women and also hypergamy and gold diggers. I believed women marry men for their money and eventually divorce them. Well, that's for a big part actually true and as a result of it, I became bitter myself.
    MGTOW and the red pill philosophy had a very common pattern, that seems only one directional: Bashing females. Not once I saw MGTOW or Red Pill actually praising females and part of the community went on so much as to bashing females for literally NOTHING provocative. For example a female wanted to know their mindset and reasons out of her own curiosity and basically members of MGTOW shunned and shamed her for doing so, saying, that women are their enemies and will do whatever it takes to destroy men if it involves "spying" on them like she "did".

    Even as you said: "blame all the world's ills on women."

    Yes, this is what many of them DO practice!

    Far too often I saw that and it's nothing like good can come out of it. The bitterness was well over the top and I could not see myself in it.
    MGTOW was SUPPOSED to aid men against misandrists and men-hating societies such as the "real man" BS. But it has developed into something like any culture sooner or later would; Toxicity.

    So, I couldn't see myself hating women and girls and decided to quit MGTOW and recover from the "damages" caused to me and dropped the whole misogyny.

    Now I see, that there are bitter men and women out there and I'm glad I'm no part of it. I am just being me now and live life.
    If you want my full story, you can read it here: www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a29613-how-i-turned-from-being-bitter-resentful-towards-girls-into-a
    • Unit1

      There is a big and crystal-clear difference between those two images below. Both of them are MGTOW samples. One aids the men, who face misandry and gynocentrism and the other is simply misogynistic and bitter.



      I felt freed and peace when I was in MGTOW but after I quit MGTOW and started loving females again, I felt even more freed and even more peace and even harmony. I keep moving forward now.

      @JudgmentDay I'm sure you are interested in what I have to say regarding this. You're welcome as always!

    • i already responded to this, you know me. I'm a big proponent of transhumanism and nanotechnology. I figured if those things evolve and become a reality some day, we can't ever be screwed, we'd only become MUCH BETTER and MORE EFFICIENT than we ever was. We talked about it before, remember how I said we're so fucking limited because of the physical forms that we are given and trapped in. I believe and feel that the human body form being made out of flesh, blood, and bone is a terrible idea, it's way too vulnerable and we always suffer, as in specifically we have to constantly nourish and maintain our current physical forms which is a big burden, if only we ran on energy that is auto-regenerated rapidly instead and produce minimal to no waste at all instead, sigh. That and very little risk or chance of ever dying, or upgrade-able to such, but it's only my wishful thinking as realistically it is unlikely to ever happen the way I want it to though: easy, effective and painless.

    • Thus meaning no more sole dependencies upon the traditional natural methods of reproduction, slow, inefficient, as when humans use those methods, they may end up with a kid with horrible genes, constantly sick or hurt or develop some horrible disease they suffer from and may even be a disease with no cure. It's just Way Too little control. your kids might absolutely hate you, and won't ever listen to what you tell them, etc., and that could get themselves hurt or even killed.

      And also, because people can and will suffer and die, and you can't get consent from them in the first place that they ever be here. Explains why so many depressed and unhappy people had completely given up all hope on life and ended themselves, they probably wouldn't want to come here if they had known beforehand. I know I wouldn't want to bring someone into existence here and have them suffer through the same shit that unhappy depressed people had to suffer through and endure through no matter what.

  • Radontal
    I completely agree with you. It's bullshit that the loud minority have such an influence. What happened was that feminists tried to be empowered and took some features that define the role of the man in society (breadwinner and provider). This along with constant nagging on how men have it better and should feel ashamed led to men becoming huge pussies. Men became scared to approach women and take risks, which made them form stupid groups like MGTOW. You are right that there is a defeatist and escapist attitude in MGTOW. It's basically men's form of extreme feminism (which argue or not defines it the most). So now we have angry feminists that can't get laid vs. angry MGTOWers that can't get laid shouting at each other blaming the other sex for all the problems in society, while taking no responsibility.

    The saddest thing is that they have an outlet through the internet and since it is a topic of interest to them, they talk, and shout, and cry about it a lot. Kids hear it, lap that shit up and think that there is this big difference between boys and girls. Considering how much easier it is to look at a screen than talk to people, they don't realize that what they see online is complete garbage and so the cycle continues.

    It's not a big percentage of the population that actually believes the shit that feminists and MGTOW say, but it's probably going to increase due to people always avoiding responsibility and giving up too easily. The PC culture also plays a role in this, but that's a completely different bullshit story.

    I don't agree that the world is going to become a dark place. This is mostly happening in western society where the US has influence. The rest of the world is fine in this regard. What is probably going to happen has happened in history many times. The family structure is weakened, leading to worse economy and internal strife, leading to separation of the population, which ultimately ends with either being taken over by invaders or old values being reintroduced.

    As much as people want equality, it can't happen in a stable society. People define themselves by their roles in society (e. g. protector, housekeeper etc.) and when you take those roles away it all turns into a big pile of shit. Everybody is lost and doesn't know where they belong. What is needed is not equality, but compatibility. There is a reason why searching for a mate is called "finding you other half". Compliment each others' strengths, don't try to be the same.
  • errorgoodnameunfound
    I'm glad there is some balance in what you wrote. Therefore, instead of satirizing it to show the flip side, I'll answer back with a more balanced suggestion as well.

    Perhaps there's other issues highly affecting everything beyond male or female, like bad parenting and money issues. Women can occupy all the management positions they want, even get way more college degrees, but fact is, many of those college degrees end up worthless because NOBODY wants to train anymore and EVERYBODY wants experienced people without giving it. I've heard young men AND women both point this out and were REALLY upset by it. So that is something beyond gender needing fixing BADLY that would help both.

    Also, men still more than often not only are at the tip top, but many females ENABLE them to be so and bring down other females for the sake of it. That needs addressing as well, as I'm pretty sure The Handmaid's Tale points it out.

    Back to bad parenting and money, I don't think there's specific "generations" as usually all the boomer/millennial this and that is utter horseshit meant to sell more books. But I definitely think some older and younger people universally relate to age, regardless of gender. I do think many older people who were parents are very much at fault for raising kids either in the way of telling them they could do anything, achieve anything, and THEY were the ones giving "participation trophies," and started it in the first place. That, or they were the kind of parents that expected absolute obedience to traditional, conservative ways but gave LITTLE in terms of actual financial security in order for one to stick to it their whole lives.

    BOTH ways of raising kids are TERRIBLE because either way they easily become naiive, egoistic, narcisstic, etc until shit hits the fan and they go through several mental breakdowns.

    This is WAY more than gender. And as somebody already 37, sorry, but people younger than 28 were more than likely raised much differently and unless you understand that, and that an economy that refuses to change for it's current consumers, but instead laughs at them as they slowly die from bankrupcy (lookin at you Blockbuster) you won't get why younger people are MGTOW and WGTOW. by the way, ZERO reason to judge people for being single until they themselves are happy, male or female. Period.
  • Splithead
    We can almolst grow children completely in vats. I'm serious. Add to that that we have extreme levels of consumerism in companionship. There's a subscription service you can pay for to text a boyfriend or girlfriend that is actually not even a single person. It's like a phone sex line only whoever you get assumes the persona of your caring significant other and asks you about your day. There are even weird emotional prostitutes now. Abercrombie and Fitch type guys you can hire to come over and give you a massage and listen to you complain (for women). Every gender is cool except straight male. Essentially what will happen is that we will all go down to our base instincts and become polygamous and hypergsmous respectively. We won't have a single "one" we will construct our partener from bits and pieces of available options. Having sex with people will be as random as having friends. We'll all just have gen and fuck buddies and paid escorts of some type or another. Until of course apple puts siri in a silicon body lol
  • NJ_Casanova
    What the hell does MGTOW stand for?

    " I firmly believe in equal rights for all, not preferential treatment of any kind." You're going to get a lot of FEminst haters for that one, LOL.

    Delusional people can't handle the truth;-P

    It's so true that the whole movement has caused a guy that is aggressive to come off as a pervert or sexually harassing. I know guys that won't even tell a girl, "You look nice" because she AUTOMATICALLY thinks he is hitting on her, wants to get in her pants. Once you face that so often it just isn't worth the trouble.

    That's one of the reasons why I only date girls that ask me out.

    I know plenty of older "Independent" ladies like that, who turned into "Cat ladies". They don't date (no guy will put up with their sexist/opinionated attitude) so they live a solitary life with their cats. That's a "RED FLAG" thing for me... If a meet a Girl with multiple cats.

    I think you also missed... Girls now don't treat their man, like women use to. Guys have been moved so far down her priority list that the guy ends up leaving as he's not getting the attention affection he needs ( and we all need to feel that from our SO). It use to be that a man wasn't a man and a woman a woman if they didn't take care the other and their needs. Now it's seems everyone has gotten selfish.

    I think if your SO isn't the most important person (equal to you kids if you have kids), then you aren't in love and shouldn't be together.

    The whole "Girls can do everything" concept is great for little girls and their self esteem. But is has gotten to the point where it's arrogance and an anti-male movement. Do these career women really want to carry that mentality into a relationship, which basically says you don't need him at all. In the end they will be alone and thinking... was it worth it?
  • USMC-Crossroads
    In that case... No one gets 'Screwed.' ;)

    But, seriously, the truth is that women (mainly Dems) are allowing the Media to set the tone for what men perceive as the average woman's POV. - Which is bullshit, of course, as the Media only serves itself with any of it's programming. Think about this; Every SitCom, every RomCom, and every commercial, where there is a normal couple, the Man is ALWAYS made to look stupid, inept, and utterly useless... Useless around the house, lazy, the worse driver, a poor parent, a lousy listener, making too little money, incapable of making even the smallest decision, and, in all other situations basically an out-of-shape slightly-retarded man-child. So, ladies, what do you expect us to do? Honestly now. If you're a man these days, you loose a point. A white man, lose another. A successful white man, one more off. A Christian successful white man, one more. And a Conservative Christian successful white man... He is the DEVIL! You can (and will) say 'No, no, no, that's a lie.' Really? We're just making it up? We're not seeing this on every TV series, movie, and news broadcast? Ok, Honey... I guess you're tight... after all, I'm a man, so I'm obviously incapable of truth, feelings, and intelligible speech. So c'mon, "Why do so many MGTOW?"... Well what do you expect us to do? Just put up with it? Fuck that. Pay attention here - Men want to be MEN, and we want women to be WOMEN. We want to protect you, and provide for you, and love you. If all you see are men treating you like shit, then stop being a slut, stop going after the six-pack and pretty face, stop looking for the dollar signs. From my (a U. S. Marine) point of view, the MOST important job the world has ever known, is that of a mother - and our job, is to make sure you can do your job. ALL MEN REALLY WANT IS TO TAKE CARE OF OUR WIVES AND CHILDREN. And it pisses us off when all we see is this generation saying that a woman who wants nothing more than to be a wife and mother isn't a real woman. Being a wife and mother is the ONLY way to be a true woman, and our job (as men) is to help you do that... NOT help you do it less, but help take away all the obstacles in your life that prevent you from being the best mother you can be. A man's destiny is self-sacrifice, for the express purpose of making damn-sure that the woman in his life can be herself and fulfill her heart's intent... which should be raising her child. We love women, and just want you to be safe.
  • mjz00
    well lol at myself having to look that one up, never heard of it over hear in the uk have to say, what I do see is people around my age, separated often with children but men and women living independently so obviously losing that desire need for settling down we once had, its taking me a while about myself and the men I encounter of how to understand the general concensus its often seems we are grown and secure and although have a basic need for intimacy and company the idea of a full on committed ltr is a little lost on us.. not all of course. I look at the younger generation and the things they go through, express and question and feel for them so much, it all seemed so much simpler back in the eighties and nineties... i have a feeling thats it all so up in the air, neither male or female really know whats going on and where we stand, this kind of makes sense coming from a society that has changed so so much from the fifties with social and religious confinements edging their control over people, these have been diminished along with so much change in general in the world. We are like lost intelligent souls set free and I see a lot of running wild thats understandable but also potentially dangerous to us all. Setting upon eachother again is understandable but ideally we should try to understand eachother and except we are all going through this together and its our job to try to find the balance for the best of all. This may lose some people but this is the millenia of the age of aquarius a time of truth and evolvement of the human spirit a connection and understanding to all, its only the beginning but people of this time are at the start of it, a lot of people seem to be very aware of the chaos so is this not an internal drive to find a solution, how on earth do we progress? Surely only together as man and woman whatever your orientation we are all one are we not? xx
  • pervertedjester
    I've created my own acronym P. P. L. M. A. (Psycho's Please Leave Me Alone) ... so far it seems to be working.
  • Mustachekitteh
    The way I see it there are over 3 billion men and women on this planet. So out of those billions of people at least 1 of them will accept you and want to be with you. It's just most people these days are too damn lazy or just write off LDR's. Due to the fact that they don't have any determination to truly want to be with someone. If you're not will to put in the work to look for someone then don't even bother trying to have a relationship.
  • CasaNorba
    WTF there's a WGTOW now?

    you gotta be kidding me, I thought the purpose of FEMINISM was to teach women to actually go their way and be strong and independent. so if there's a WGTOW does this mean that FEMINISM was actually a failure?

    anyways no to answer your question I'm a mgtow member myself and joining this movement was the best thing I've done for myself. it feels good to realize that as man you can be yourself and actually enjoy being yourself without the need of the approval and the expectations of the opposite gender. so with that said men (at least) are screwed at all.

    now going back to the WGTOW that movement is bound to be a failure. obviously thanks to feminism everybody now knows that unlike men women can't really survive on their own without the presence of a man to take care of them and solve all their problems. its also funny how the same people who ridicule us members of the MGTOW calling us "virgin losers" etc now want to get on our level and start their own movement ripping off of ours, talk about CHARACTER ASSASSINATION!

    to be honest I think if women want to start their own "go their own way" movement they should call it WFOALMA. which stands for...

  • castratedwhiteguy
    The problem is that 70% of all divorces are filed by women, and most times these women just quit trying even if the guy is a good husband. Right now, Christian values are dead and with it, the sanctity of marriage is dead also. So in today's society relationships are disposable. In today's toxic politically correct climate why would any guy in his right mind make a marriage commitment knowing that he'll probably end up losing everything he's worked for in divorce court? Today, no fault divorce, feminism, easy women, the rap culture, cheap prostitutes and internet porn have made the need for long term relationships obsolete. Feminism blew up the traditional family and MGTOW is the backlash. I agree, this makes western civilization a much darker and more bitter place. However, for decades feminists (today all women are feminists, including you) wanted this to happen and now women are choking on their just deserts. Women destroyed chivalry and only women can undo the damage. We're watching and waiting, but from a safe distance.
    • juliaanita

      your name is so appropriate.

    • @juliaanita I'm glad that you found my my user name amusing. I figured I may as well add a bit of humor to the discussion...

    • juliaanita

      Well, lots of times this kind of discussion needs a little humor. thanks.

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  • VeritechAce
    Yes, I agree, it is kind of sad; the whole situation between men and women (in the interest of full disclosure, I am a MGTOW). I'd like to address some of your comments:

    --"And I've noticed most guys who come up to me are like timid little mice, just waiting for me to flip out and call the cops because he looked at my legs or something."--
    Unfortunately, this is a consequence of a lot of young men not being raised by a father. Typically, because of divorce, but it can also happen if the father is just not involved in the boy's life. Additionally, in public schools the boys are discouraged and chastised when ever they exhibit any kind of masculine behavior. As I understand it, a lot public schools have even discontinued recess and boys are forced to suppress their need to burn off that excess energy. Also, masculinity is maligned and ridiculed on TV and in other media. So, with no role models and masculinity frowned on at every turn, are you really surprised that boys are growing up timid? How could they be anything else?

    --"At the same time, let me add that a LOT of MGTOW guys I've come across do seem to be little more than butt-hurt losers "--
    So, just out of curiosity, how many MGTOW men have you met in real life? I've met two and neither was a "butt-hurt loser." Both went MGTOW after getting divorced (one got divorced twice; some men just have to learn the hard way). Neither is an INCEL type, and both continue to date; just vowed never to marry again.

    --"And these days, given all the strides females have taken over the years (yeah, they exist), there really is no reason for a woman not to be successful and happy on her own."--
    Well, this is a point that is well discussed in the MGTOW community. The essential belief is that WGTOW can't happen because women cannot be happy on their own in the same way a man can be because it is not in their nature to be alone. I'm not sure I subscribe to this belief; instead I adopt a wait and see attitude. Please understand, in my experience, I am not happier when I am with a woman; the drama, the shit-tests, the manipulation and controlling behavior, I have a very low tolerance for such things; I don't treat people that way, male or female, and I don't accept such behavior from anyone.

    Ultimately, I don't think that a prevalence of MGTOW or WGTOW will be such a terrible thing. Men and women will work out their issues or they won't. There will always be men and women who get together; it is in our nature.
    They have WGTOW. It is called feminism. And like MGTOW, it is for losers. Both ideologies merely attract losers and/or those who struggle and are less than successful with the opposite sex. Like neckbeards and fat women. It gives them a pseudo-educated way to blame others for their own shortcomings and evade personal responsibility. Both sexes are resorting to these ideologies in mass. I am not sure what the long term effects will be, but I predict that we will be a much lonelier society where pornography, cam girls/guys, and sex toys like robots will become that much more acceptable and widespread.
    • willzville

      That's the irony. Feminists in general (not all) are usually the type that men wouldn't flirt or go after, it seems like they are trying to level their own playing field by making sure that attractive women don't get attention either.
      There is a reason why the black power and anti-racist movements have ground to an almost non-existence — because there isn't enough racism going on socially and in the workplace to warrant the movement. Yet with feminism it's morphed to continue demonizing men despite all the numerous privileges, beneficial double-standards and assistance.

      Even if a 90% tax was imposed on men, the overwhelming majority would still choose to be men and that's something that feminists can't stand — that they will never be men.

    • Afrochick


    • MGTOW isn't for losers. It's for guys who realize that feminism, corporatism, the sexual revolution and the court system have corrupted women to the point where making a marriage commitment is now financial suicide.

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  • Chief16
    Its that age old story, loser men blame women, loser women blame men. But at the end of the day, most people will end up with someone. Even if that wasn't what they planned in the beginning.
    I do think some men and women are genuine when they decide not to commit, and that's perfectly respectable. Their life, their choice. Don't believe the loud minority of the MGTOWs and WGTOWs, they're usually miserable and
    • Djaaaaaay

      Very well put , I agree with this. Accually I almost thought I said this ... jk

    • DonRomeo

      I think you need to be a military slave being abused by a lieutennant, doing a prison sentence for a new post-9/11 sexual or political law change, sleeping rough, suicidal, substance-addicted, long-term unemployed, living in a shanty town or other Third World Poverty, or in say Iraq or Afghanistan, or in the Trenches of the First World War, before you make such sweeping, unqualified judgements about male rights campaigners.

    • Djaaaaaay

      @DonRomeo Really?

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  • tyber1
    It's my opinion that women cause 90% of the gender fighting. One-sided expectations and demands, ridiculous standards, the whole marriage clusterfuck. Why should men bother with this bullshit? I'm not MGTOW but I can certainly understand why they are pissed off. I'm not gonna say that men are perfect, but I don't see men taking advantage of women nearly as often as the other way around.
    • juliaanita

      Of course you don't see men taking advantage of women. You're a man

    • @juliaanita And your a woman. Your views are going to be bias. However, a lot of time women get taken advantage of by the same guy that 50x other women want and he most likely fucked. Men at least try different types of women, while women more often than not tend to go for nearly the same exact thing and get burned then form a generalized conclusion about men.

    • tyber1

      @BubbleBoy69 basically what he said. @juliaanita There are definitely men out there who are users but it tends to just be the same scummy ones that think they can get what they want because they pretty much can.

      I not only know more women who are users, but there are more types of women who use men in different ways. Women generally have to worry about whether the guy is using them for sex and whether he will sleep with other girls. Guys have to worry about girls using them for free dinner, using them for attention, using them for free stuff, cheating, taking our wealth in a divorce, taking the kids. It's a lot more diverse. And those concerns in many cases stem from the special treatment that women demand. He needs to ask me put, he needs to pay for dinner, he needs to as me to marry him, he can't sign a prenup, yada yada. Sometimes the same women do all of these things but unfortunately most women do at least some of these.

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  • PrincessofNohr
    You're blowing these "movements" way out of proportion. Only a small, vocal portion of the internet even knows about it. I bet you could ask 100 millennials at random, and 90% wouldn't know what MGTOW even means.
    • Firstly, MGTOW is not a movement, it's a philosophy. There are no organizations and no leadership. MGTOW is growing organically, without the need for proselytize or recruitment.

      Second, you might want to take a look at the Herbivore Men in Japan. It's a similar phenomenon to MGTOW, albeit for different cultural reasons. They are about 15 years ahead of western cultures in this regard. Some surveys indicate that 70% of Japanese men under 30 are Herbivore Men.

    • You don't need to know what Mgtow is, to be Mgtow. Most had no idea what it was but had been living it for a long time.

  • BrittBratt2416
    Yes humanity would be screwed if that was to happen. I just feel like mgtow are men who are frustrated, heartbroken, and mad about not being able to get a woman or get into a relationship. So they put the blame on women but deep down inside they want a relationship and they want to be loved..
  • Sami365
    Not that I think it will happen, but it makes me wonder if it's possible that humanity will just split up between genders some day, men in their own communities and women in theirs, only coming together to procreate (or not at all if we can it all by lab). I've always found it quite interesting, but I believe there are more flaws to this than pros.
  • AceOtana1
    I don't know if I could class myself as MGTOW but I have gone off women completely, and for numerous reasons. If I were still interested in women (emotionally) I'd never get married. Getting married to a woman is like giving her the controls to your life. If she turns nasty, she could screw your whole life up with a divorce, or threaten a divorce as leverage.

    I've been happily single by choice for 27 years, and I reckon I'll remain so for the rest of my days.
  • Cryostatic
    "I have male friends who say they're so terrified to approach women for fear of being accused of doing something terrible or even illegal, they just can't risk it anymore."

    I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Your male friends are just terrified to approach women, period.

  • Mrwoo99
    Women could never go WGTOW because women need men and without men civilisation would collapse without men to run it. An for a start everything a woman owns in her life is made by men, hence the word man made... I've never heard of anything woman-made.

    Women know they're screwed without us, they seem to forget it was men that brought us to how advanced we are today because if it was down to women, we'd be still aging through an era where we'd be still living in houses made of wheat.
    • CasaNorba

      that's exactly what I'm saying!

      either way wasn't the purpose of feminism to teach women how to go their way and be strong and independent without the need of a man?

      so yea we should let them worked their asses off at trying to be like us at creating this so called WGTOW so we can pop champagne and celebrate the fact that feminism itself was a failure.

  • HiItsMeee
    *****READ THIS*****

    Hey you, you are missing the whole point, I created an account just to say this to you, I am not a MGTOW but you are just not understanding their view and their reason behind it, there are no feelings such as hatred or bitterness or defeat in majority of MGTOWs, SOME of them certainly have had those bitter experiences at the beginning, and those things acted as a catalyzer for some or as an activation energy provider for some others to become MGTOWs, but MGTOWs in general don't hate women or relationships or the people who are in relationships, they may try to convert other men into being MGTOWs but they don't hate those men or their partners, they simply think that they may be able to introduce a better and easier way of life to their mates, MGTOWs are just a bunch of poor men who simply don't want to deal with drama anymore, they are just going their own way, for better or worse, they reached a point that made them think that they are not benefiting much for those relationships, let them go peacefully, haven't you done enough? Is it so hard to understand? Why are you saying these things about them? Also just for the records, as I know some people may ask, I am not a MGTOW as I said, I am a poor 24 year old virgin man who is a full-time student and will probably remain virgin for the rest of his life (by choice, not because I am ugly or have a medical condition), but I support those men who choose to be MGTOWs.
    • HiItsMeee

      Just before someone else mentions, I'm 24, not 27, I entered 1990 as my birth year when I registered, I didn't think that was important.

  • kevinflynn
    I wish I were a woman saying this because I know every point I make will be dismissed summarily because I am a man.

    Anyhow still going to voice my take on this subject..

    MGTOW is a byproduct of something.

    Women, you want to be the boss, but conditionally.
    You want all of the rights and responsibilities but NONE (ZERO) of the accountability.

    The double standard rule that you all live by is chocking the life out of the conventional nuclear family. Your job in life is to be perpetually dissatisfied.

    I have a theory about this.

    Our genetic dispositions are for survival. Too much of either and ite short version is

    BACK IT DOWN A FEW NOTCHES. Learn to be happy with men in your lives and stop selling the fascade of "I don't NEED NO MAN!" that's horse shit and here we are... in THIS situation. Thank yourselves.

    The men you cite as "pussing out over it" isn't a butthurt thing. We are bound to logic. If the speed limit is 55 and you will get arrested going 80, we will eventually calculate the futility in travelling at 80mph and keep it below 75mph for good measure.

    This straight logical linear thought has eluded women since they've been aware of men.

    The ball is in your court because you screamed at us for decades to lob it to your side of the net.. and now you're just holding the ball and crying bloody murder... (reference my earlier point of "double standard" and ZERO accountability)

    It is a theory I have, as stated but it is this..

    Men's genetic pre-disposition is to procreate. Have sex. Impregnate ultimately.

    This is good. It sustains the global body count. However if unchecked and rampant, we then would have an over population crisis.
    I truly believe that the woman's genetic predisposition is to be dissatisfied with their mate, their surroundings and things generally that occur on a daily basis.

    Why? Well if all we had for our longevity protection was men impregnating, we would still die off... because we would not advance. We would never be able to counter plague, offset wildlife threats or climate threats.

    Women are highly responsible for this. They say to their cave man. "There aren't enough tree bearing fruit here. There are not enough bison. This cave is too small. It gets too hot here" these nags if you will drive the cave man to change the environment to meet her needs. This then makes evolution from an industrial/technological standpoint possible. I know that is highly simplified. Men aren't just sperm donors and women contribute more t
    • kevinflynn

      more than just counterpoint or complaint. Too much men procreating, bad problem. Too much women dissatisfied, bad problem.

      There's a balance. I can say this, I am a man who is confident, NOT butthurt, certainly opposed to red pill. (I have a staunchly religious red pill male friend. He's screwed) I am able to attract women that I have an interest in. In fact it is FAR easier for me to get JUST SEX from women than to try and cultivate a deep meaningful long term relationship from them. The main problem I run into is that about 3 months in, unsolicited, women I date just start in with a list of gripes. Almost as if some sort of survey about their satisfaction was presented. They also will never entertain the prospect of hearing me out on my list of items (which I never have any.. I am a man. No smoking. No cheating. That's about all you have to do to keep me satisfied.) This isn't something that's going to encourage men, especially the meek.

    • kevinflynn

      -continued from pt2

      Now I don't want to only cite women. Once we get past this stage and women do a course correction on the current running protocol of "dating" (i. e. poly-insertwordhere) and get back to a stable baseline, then I can dissect man's contribution to this debacle.

      There has been so much done by women that before I can even begin to wax the male fault in this current flux, that it wouldn't even make sense to add it here.

      The most distilled manner in which I can explain it is this:

      Those are all female byproducts unrejected by men. They have been fine tuned to getting laid. This is horrendous. So they will do say and become anything a woman indicates which will gain them sexual access. It's pathetic. The real women want the real men. Self created. Follower of nobody or any trends. So STOP rewarding these butthurts and make them work on themselves by themselves. Then we can get to the accountability of men...

    • kevinflynn

      Lastly, the one item that both sexes are guilty of (at least a given percentage) which is eroding the viability of long term relationships. (AWIAW and LTR are redpill acronyms.)

      "What's in it for me." and "Dating you until the next best thing comes along"

      This nothing for nothing and constantly on the look for upgrades by BOTH SEXES is exactly what is making this not work anymore. People have been raised to want more, be unhappy with the current and be self centered. It's paying off...

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  • RoryS
    Here is what drove me MGTOW... At a dry club in Salt Lake City (no alcohol) I said Hi' hope Your having a good time tonight - to a rather husky lady who turned out to be a feminist. She screamed that she was going to call the cops... and so other folks did... Police arrive, handcuff me and get my side of the prerogative. It was told to police I "sexually assaulted" the feminist lady.. and no clarifying statements were made. Needless to say, I rebuffed that, and the police watched the surveillance video. After vindication I did nothing more than offer pleasantries I was uncuffed and free to leave. That was when I realized hanging out with my male friends who are also straight was the only safe angle a single white male can take. No more, never again... Thankfully it was in a facility that did not serve alcohol, and that had high-quality video. The lunatic feminist was not charged with making a false report to police and was also free to go about her evening - surmising to accuse another male? Copulation, company and dates are not worth the liable and risk of freedom. that was 2005. MGTOW will remain my destiny until my dying breath. Let some other guy fill the boyfriend shoes.. I got a house and good job to protect.
    • RoryS

      This video sort of validates my experience.


    • So, instead of writing off the experience as an unfortunate brush with crazy, you decided to write off the entire female population as a whole? I'm genuinely confused about your logic here. There are shitty people of both genders. I'm sorry about your experience, but it has jaded you.

    • wow dude i didn't know feminist insanity in america had gone this far. wow. i guess men looking to marry go to the east nowadays... .

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  • 10dsw
    Actually it's funny because the moment I switched relationships (which was too much work) for hook ups (which is easy af to get nowadays) is the moment I became "not bitter" lol
    • Justin201

      and where is it easy AF, where u live bro

    • 10dsw

      @Justin201 Vancouver Canada, it's a joke how easy it is around here

    • RedCar

      Canadian women have always been easy. Watch for STDs though!

  • blahblahnose
    Look around you. The real world is not the internet. Most people are still pairing off and always will be. No online movement is going to stop us falling in love.

    If this has any effect maybe it'll be a force for good. Maybe society will finally accept that being single past 30 or 40 or 50 is a valid lifestyle. It is not in fact forbidden under the laws of the universe and maybe the endless discrimination against older single people will finally ease off.

    Lots of people saying that MGTOW guys are just blaming women that they can't get laid. No one ever seems to take it to the next conclusion though - that maybe single guys wouldn't feel the need to blame anyone if they weren't taught from as soon as they can crawl that their entire worth as a human being is solely based on their ability to "get laid" and earn big money (the latter also causes lots of problems of course).

    Likewise, maybe single women wouldn't feel the need to blame someone if they weren't taught that their entire worth is based on their ability to attract a man.

    The feminist movement has made big strides to get rid of the latter of those two but obviously doesn't give a crap about the former.
  • Lonewolf881
    I know I'm only 16 but if I still never get asked on a date or still remain invisible to guys, or have any romantic/sexual encounter with anyone in real life by the time I'm 20 I will officially label myself as going WGTOW. I have four years to figure this shit out, if not, I'm winding up alone for the rest of my life.
    • Not true just relax as a woman you are in the fortunate position of being able to sit back judge your suitors and keep rejecting until one of them floats your boat. Don't worry

    • @Primemutton lol no guy seems to even like me so it's not like it's ever gonna happen lol

    • I am 46 and have never had as much as a date. I can assure you that at your age no need to worry just yet PM me if i can give you any advice that you don't want making public

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  • DodgersGM
    MGTOW and WGTOW are going their own way in miniscule numbers. It's nothing to worry about.

    And to be honest, there's this little evolutionary voice in the back of my mind who's all, "let all the MGTOW -- thin the competitions!" lol
    • Yea, that's what Japan probably thought, now look at them. They are offering people money for marriage and children.

    • DodgersGM

      @Truthatanycost I could be mistaken, but I thought that financial reward only came from childbirth -- not marriage.

    • I can't remember which but it's most likely from child birth. That whole problem started small just like all problems do. I see a lot of shaming and ''oh it's just a small subset of people'' lol but I bet Japan wished they did something earlier.

  • Anpu23
    The connection between MIGTOW and Red Pill is in error. They are separate movements.

    As for where it comes from. The way to change this is to stop this campaign of fear, demonizing of men and boys. Men are not inherently dangerous, regardless of what the government would like people to think.

    • RedCar

      Not exactly. Red Pill is essential to the MGTOW decision. You are conflating Red Pill and PUA. Pick Up Artists have nothing to do with Red Pill or MGTOW. They are a cult unto their own, are not concerned with MRA, feminism or anything of that matter.

  • DanoMR
    Not the same thing.

    MGTOW's just want a life without the complication of a relationship.

    Red-Pillers are glorified seduction artists who pretend to be intellectual because they are familiar with some shoddy psychology they toss around in their echo chamber. Generally shitty dudes as far as I'm concerned.
  • John_Lion_84
    That's only in America. You people are crazy with everthing, everything is over rated and you are fine with it. I never had this feeling to approach a woman, because am not in over rated murica. people are nice, men and women are nice and pleasant. You created a big bubble that can't be taken a way. People would say '' well Europe is different'' in this case it sure is and it's good. Our young people are doing fine compared to your youngesters.
  • WhateversCheapest
    I don't think there is a "gender war." But then questions like this get posted and a gender battle starts which could progress into a gender war if I didn't leave this comment to remind people this whole thing is ridiculous.
  • raspberry0416
    There's no problem for women. The only people who lose out are the men who would rather have a partner but can't get one that they are happy with. If they would rather quit than improve themselves, well it's their life and their choice.
    • Bobbyhill1

      you are doing that same gender vs gender crap. ''theres no problem for women'' I can name over a dozen problems with women, but I can also do the same with men but I know, women are perfect and never the problem in this case. I mean, modern day fem didn't hurt a fly lol

    • @Bobbyhill1
      I meant MGTOW doesn't cause problems for women, not that women are perfect

    • Bobbyhill1

      yeah that way of thinking does make women feel salty. After all, there are a bunch of women on the internet saying ''why dont guys get married anymore?'' ''why do guys like girls?'' they truly do care because each gender is pretty similar. I care about how women act in society because it effects me vice versa. Im pretty sure a mass scale of guys acting like this effects women who deal with them on a daily basis unless women are robots or the guy acting like this is truly undesirable to begin with. We are human after all, and the majority of us want acceptance and attention from the opposite gender, dont you agree?

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  • AnonRom
    What would probably happen is that people would start reproducing in a lab style setting so guys jack off and doctors use the sperm to impregnate women. Also assuming that 100% of people would override their evolutionary prerogative is a poor assumption. I don't care how mad you are staying away from the opposite gender is really fucking hard long term (even for me and I'm usually a misanthrope)
    • I know some that have been staying away for over 30 years, it's not that hard when you have other interests.

  • PiuBravoRagazzo
    Divide and conquer
    Divide us on race

    Then everyone is at each others throats and attacks and kills one another. And the group of the real racial supremacists, conquer us all
    • Not entirely innacurrate, that is what ISIS has been trying to do with the west, and it's what the west did to the world about 200 to 300 years ago

    • Yep, that's exactly what's going on. That's one of the goals of a Marxist ideology: divide and concur along race, sex, religion, and politics, in order to tear down civilization, in hopes of rebuilding a Marxist utopia. "From chaos, order." It hasn't worked since Nimrod first tried it; all it does is create chaos.

    • @VeritechAce I can't wait for the day when all marxist literature is burned and all those ideas about communism are destroyed along with the people who want to enslave humanity with their regressive ideology

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  • Ariixi
    I honestly feel like white older people are the ones who feel like this. The younger generation is definitely not the same lol
    • Actually, MGTOW started among black men, except it wasn't called MGTOW, or so the claim goes among the IMBOR community.

    • No! The MGTOW movement is made up of mostly younger guys aged 20-35 years old.

    • That's a lie. Im labeling as WGTOW and I'm 16.

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  • HikerDude
    I don't think anyone is "winning" this deal. Marriage and family will become something only immigrants undertake over time, given the number of women who proclaim loudly how much they don't want to have kids.
  • greycadillacs
    Apparently my experience so far in the world is completely different, because besides seeing examples of whiny men on here, I really have never had a problem having well-adjusted relationships with like-minded females, and neither have any of my male friends.