Why do you think women rate men lower in attractiveness than vice versa? (Page 2)
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I don't think its because women are better looking but I would agree that pictures play a big part.
You talk about how women spend much longer than guys on their profile pics than men do. Fair enough but selecting just the right picture, taken at the right angle and the right lighting and filter probably will make you look more attractive, in the picture. But click and done, to me thats more candid. I want the person to find me hot when they're stood next to me not while browsing through my Instagram pictures.
Well all the really hot guys ruin a lot of girls standards... when they 'get' a guy like that for a while every other guy that's even slightly lower in attractiveness goes down like a million points. Then you get a load of picky girls that want the best.
It's a combination, but also because women are the more attractive gender. That's just the way God made them.
You say they're more attractive as a straight guy of course but if you look at the animal kingdom it's the guy that's the most attractive with animal species. They have to be that in order to out compete other males. I'm a straight male too so I get it but if somebody that isn't a human objectively looked at our species I doubt they would think fat deposits would seem more impressive than functional muscle.
Nah, dawg. It isn't just boobs. Look a a woman's face and then try telling me I'm wrong.
@cavmanier I am a woman and I think boobs are more attractive than muscle lol. There's a reason why women comprise 20% of buyers of Playboy, yet Playgirl (featuring male nudes) went out of business.
"Look a a woman's face and then try telling me I'm wrong"
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I agree as a straight guy but we're biased. We are the last ones that can be impartial. Look at nature though for impartialness.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I'm challenging both of you to find me one example of a species where the female is prettier than the male. there are lots of examples where males are prettier than females. We know why males are prettier. They have to compete for mates while females don't.
@mistixs
"I am a woman and I think boobs are more attractive than muscle lol"
So? You are a biased human that grew up in a society were society sexualizes womens' bodies. I bet you don't like eating bugs either but your ancestors loved them. That's 100% due to cultural reasons. Ancient civilizations like the Greeks and Romans favored the male body though. Females were seen to be incomplete.
"There's a reason why women comprise 20% of buyers of Playboy, yet Playgirl (featuring male nudes) went out of business."
That means nothing. Look deeper. You are a very surface level thinker. Realize that women tend to manage a large amount of family transactions. I used my exes amazon account. That didn't mean that she was using products I bought on there. She did computer stuff because that was her thing so I let her do it. That is a common relationship dynamic. Women tend to seek control over these things, especially managing finances. You think because some Finance statistics exist in must mean women are using the product. That's not true though. You base your thinking awesome bizarre statistics.
You base your thinking one some bizarre statistics**
@cavmanier I still like the girl animals, though. Except the buck. But that's probably just because I was raised in the country. So my culture fetishizes bucks and antlers.
Also, I already gave you an example of one species: Homo sapiens. And since I'm not into bestiality, then that's the only one that's relevant here.
Well it's widely accepted that the males tend to be more attractive in nature. I gave you a bunch of examples. I meant give me an example that isn't human because you can't be objective about humans. I figured you couldn't give me an example though. I'm not sure it actually exist. It's not about beastiality. We can see that males develop these physical features in order to impress women. Women spend no resources on looks in my examples.
@cavmanier "because some Finance statistics exist in must mean women are using the product." Ok, according to PornHub, the most common porn viewed by women is lesbian porn. I did a poll on GAG & of the women who said they prefer lesbian porn, a majority said that it's because the people are hotter. Thus, the women are hotter.
Okay but what you are saying here is a different claim. Women watching lesbian porn would not mean they think the girls are just hotter. That would mean the girls are lesbians as well. Straight porn is not catered to women. It tends to focus on the womens' body. Straight women do not prefer that.
You seem to believe these porn hub accounts are credibly female. First off all though, how many people make porn accounts? Honestly, those are not going to be fairly sane people. These are going to be horn ball men or people on the extremes of society. I would bet you 95% of people (are at least the by far majority) that watch porn, do not make porn accounts.. I mean seriously? And of the small count of people that make accounts, tons of men will make make girl accounts. Even if some girl accounts are real, I would not take this small representation of girls to represent average female sexuality. Again, you base your belief system on some wacky statistics. I feel like maybe you seek these crazy out? I'm not sure though.
If you are right about your claim about women finding women more sexually attractive, you are saying they are mostly lesbian or at least bi with a preference for females. That's a different claim that women being objectively hotter.
Can you give me one counter to my examples of how males are the species in nature that focuses more on their looks? I know you dodged it because there are no examples.
See how I actually countered your arguments while you completely dodge mine.
@cavmanier female animals are less flashy than male animals because they need to draw less attention to themselves, to avoid predators.
You say male animals are more attractive but that's also not objective.
"female animals are less flashy than male animals because they need to draw less attention to themselves, to avoid predators."
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I'm sorry. I'm just about to give up with peoples' ability to critically think on this site. Zero animals want to draw attention from predators. Zero zero zero. I don't know if you're saying male animals need to draw more attention or they can handle more predator attention? That has nothing to do with looks though. The fact is male animals tend to I have the more appealing look. That flashy look you're talking about signals health. Health equals beauty. That is the point. You're trying to rationalize about predators. So what. No animal wants to draw predators. The point is male animals have flashy attractive looks despite predator risks. Zero female animals that I'm aware of are signal health like males do but I guess this is different with humans though. We're the one exception supposedly. All right I guess so. We'll just go with that. Society can't have any impact. We are just the one exception in nature where females are the flashy and more attractive species.
"You say male animals are more attractive but that's also not objective"
That was my point with humans. We have subjective biased opinions about looks. With animals its different. We are looking at objective physical features that we are pretty certain signal health, fitness and ultimately what other animals would call beauty when put in human terms. The male peacock does not spend lots of nutritional resources and extra weight that causes him to move slower if it does not signal him as a more attractive mate with females. It makes him objectively more attractive. This is not an opinion. We see the females prefer the large feathers. What is an opinion is your a subjective opinion about human females but that is largely influenced by culture. You just don't realize it.
Which animal do you think has to try harder when it comes to their looks? Which animal do you think has a greater incentive to be attractive when it comes to the termination of it mating? I'm only speaking facts here.
I know it is a weird concept that males may actually be objectively more attractive than females (which is pretty much proven in the animal kingdom). I'm a straight guy so I'm only attracted to females but when I try to think objectively and just look at facts my opinion is at males are probably actually more designed to be attractive than females. Maybe I'm wrong but that doesn't seem to be true in the animal kingdom.
@cavmanier "they can handle more predator attention" Yes, they can. Females need to draw less attention because damage to their bodies will harm their reproductive prospects more than it will for males.
A female needs to be healthy enough to carry a pregnancy and give birth. Any injury can significantly damage those chances.
In order to reproduce, a male just needs to be healthy enough to nut; that's it. An injury won't do as much damage to his reproductive prospects, so he is more free to be flashy.
This is also why male humans take more risks than females do.
If that is true, which I think is a lousy argument because males have just as much incentive to stay alive as well, that's not in contrast with males being the more attractive sex. You're basically starting up another conversation about risk that has nothing to do with beauty. The fact is that males put more effort into their outward appearance because they have more incentive to. Only the top males mate. All females mate. Males have incentive to be attractive because many males don't mate. Look at humans. Any girl can get sex. Only the top 10 to 20% of guys on Tinder get laid. Who do you think has the incentive to be more attractive?
Studies show that both males and females have a partiality towards females. So of course humans would prefer females. Not only are they much weaker and need protection, but more women means greater reproductive success. So we would find it useful to like women and be drawn to them, even among other women since if a man distrusts a woman's sexual fidelity, he could then become dangerous towards her. So it's obviously survival/evolutionary strategy for us to have preferance for women, not to mention that we literally have the most vulnerable and helpless infants of any animal species on the planet to protect as well. That helps explain our innate "women and children first" instincts.
Therefore I see the point that we can't be objective on which is actually the "fairer sex". And I do see the point that for the most part, at least in land animals except some mantis species and some underwater species, the brightest colors, the best manes etc. seem to most often be seen on the male. But as mentioned, this isn't always the case, so I'm not sure how much of a rule it is, just that it seems most common across the board.
@cavmanier "males put more effort into their outward appearance" then why are most males rated unattractive?
Studies show that [in humans,] both males and females have a partiality towards females.
@mistixs I would suggest that men work out harder and it generally takes more effort for them to sculpt their bodies. They do not groom as tediously and religiously, so from that perspective I would say women put more effort there. Though I'm not sure how we factor beauty and sanitary products invented by men for women. But men are designed to physically work harder in general which affects their appearance too.
"They [may] not groom as tediously..."
@mixtixs
"males put more effort into their outward appearance" then why are most males rated unattractive?
I'm sorry when I said males put more effort into their appearance that may not have come out right. I didn't mean like they put on makeup or brush their hair a certain way in terms of these cultural things we do. What I meant is biologically in nature males are designed to put more effort into attracting females than females do when a females. Most guys will still sleep with the ugly chick. Girls will not sleep with the ugly guy unless he has money, an amazing personality etc so the guys have more incentive to be biologically “fit.” You can see this with the more extravagant animal displays. I did not mean cultural things we do like makeup though.
@mistixs
"males put more effort into their outward appearance" then why are most males rated unattractive?
Oh and I don't claim to know the answer but my guess would be that women are harder to please. Look at women in general. Aren't they harder to please? They are harder to please when it comes to pretty much everything. They're more picky than guys not just in relationships. They're more picky about a partner. They're more picky about what their bedroom looks like. They're more picky about if somebody talks loud. There more picky about excetera excetera excetera. They seem to be more picky about looks. They have higher standards. Maybe that's built into their biology as well because they are the selectors. Being the selector does not mean that somebody is more attractive though.
@Lightning8 I would like to see what animals you are talking about where females seem to be the ones displaying more attractive features to attract males. I’m a fish hobbyist and have a pretty good knowledge about fish so I would be curious to see female fish that are more extravagant. Every fish I've seen so far in my memory the male is more extravagant. I'm thinking betta fish, platies, guppies, etc.
I don't know about extravagant but what comes to my mind is the anglerfish
@cavemanier I was going to add the orchid mantis as well since the female has the bright colors, but in courtship or when the female first selects the male, there is a performance that the male displays to be chosen. So I'm not really sure how I'd factor that one since I don't study them
@cavmanier **
@Lightning8
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No I think you may have misinterpreted what I was talking about. I was talking about features males have to impress women. Female angler fish do not have those type of features. You're talking about another dynamic which is that certain females are dramatically bigger then than males like with angler fish. That is not about convincing males to mate with them. It's really a separate topic. I don't think female mantises are more colorful either. Maybe I'm Wrong. I'm pretty sure mantises are adapted to blend into their environment though. I don't think their colors are for signaling strength / beauty. All they do is sit around all day and stealth. Without being an expert myself my guess would be that species like angler fish that don’t swim and just sit on the bottom of the ocean and mantises which don't really walk and mostly just sit in one spot, are likely opportunistic maters. I wouldn't think they would have many options with mates. Of course when you have low options you're not going to be selective which is more likely to show within the species. These animals may not have adapted to care much about who their partner is. Animals with more mobility like birds and fast swimming fish probably give better examples of species with sexual competition.
@cavmanier I can agree that soumds fair
Because they can because men are desperate as fuck. Women know that men are desperate as fuck and them at there will always be another 50 men lined up for them in their dms. Men outnumber women 9to1 on dating apps. Look at all the pathetic desperate losers on here who call any girl that post a pic a 10/10 and calls her gorgeous and perfect. How pathetic is that from men. Girls know guys are desperate do girls can be picky. It’s guys fault. Guys need to quit putting women on pedestals
Well it's the difference between our evolutions women have adapted to be more selective with who they want to have kids with since they will raise the child and they want to them to be as strong as possible
Vs men are more about trying to spread there genes to as many women as possible to carry on there genes.
Or the incels are right and women just want chads
I honestly think that it's much more about the quandry of choice. That having more choices seems to make any choice seem less enjoyable.
Quite a few years ago, as an experiment, a team created a fake female profile on a dating site. They gave her an average look and just a girl next door kind of profile. Within 2 days her inbox had over 25 hits. In comparison, the average guys profile may have 2 or 3 a month!
What? Where did you get these graphs? 0% in most attractive and only 2% in second to that? Excuse me not all women are so obsessed with mens looks. I do like a man who takes care of himself and do not want a slob, but this is way out of proportion. Women are not better looking than men. Men are simply more visually stimulated so they find many things visually attractive and thats why women spend so much time on their looks and selfies.
1. Women are the more often pursued sex. Their average standard is higher because of this. For that reason, the men will be rated lower
***2. Men don't wear makeup or anything else, and for the most part we don't get our hair done, etc, so we don't get that either. Mostly because honestly we would be judged for it
I blame society more for it, which seems like a cop out but it's our reality.
I put some effort into my looks and that doesn't help me getting any women.
but then again, I'm a European migrant, who's stranded in the east, who can't speak their language, so you'll have to ask me again in 5 years once i finally moved back home to Europe.
i however suspect, that women don't love men but i give them the benefit of the doubt anyway. I love women.
So what do you want men to do, wear lots of make up like women do? Even when women aren't wearing make up and don't make an effort to look nice, women are still gonna be regarded as the more attractive sex. In the olden days, when most women never wore make up and often wore dull boring clothes, they were still regarded as the more attractive sex. It's not rocket science.
Firstly there's a difference in the way men and women attract sexual partners. Men attract partners by being affluent and successful, women attract partners by being physically attractive. Also since women have a womb they are naturally selective about whose genetic material they allow to enter.
If I may be allowed to say so guys shouldn't be bitching about something that is just down to nature and evolution. If you want to score, up your game.
I think it has something else as well. Just look how different are women friend groups and men friend groups. Women usually like themselves more compared to how much men like themselves (but expressing it is another thing so keep it in mind) and thus women generally tend to like themselves and other women more than men for the same thing. Thus it's more likely men to rate women higher than women rating men.
Women have much more options. Guys are generally more desperate. I'm done with that though. I'm staying single. I'm apparently not remotely attractive. My ex made a point of telling me that everyday. The idea women are more empathetic is absolutely bullsh@t. Its why I don't find women attractive anymore.
I didn't choose any of the options in the poll because none of them reflects the reality of this question.
It has nothing to do with women putting more effort into their looks than men. Women simply are more picky, because they can be. There's nothing wrong with that, and women should not lower their standards or be less picky. It's just the reality of human attraction.
The only real problem here is the dishonesty and hypocrisy of women on the subject.
If a man is encouraged to be looking more than he should attractive, he will be spending most of his productive time behind a mirror, women world.
Men are made not to look hot where by every passes by is doing a thumbs up that this guy looks hot... No way, that's a woman world. But I cannot be surprised if such happens, we are in world where anything is possible now.
Not a surprise
Men are biologically made to spread their genes as much as they can , so any female of the same species is a godd candidate as long she doesn't have a disease
Women are biologically made to pick the best gene out of them all
Many males don't care about their appearance or sometimes appearance can be ruined due to performing dangerous or vigorous jobs
Overall there are more male incels than females so you can see this goes
I think men are more likely to highly rate multiple woman as men have a proclivity to polygyny but also women are more picky and some men don't put much thought into their pictures.
They are the faces of natural selection. In nature they pick and choos what the next iteration of mankind will look like. And natural selection has most often selected out. That's why it's harder to please women.
@update: It's about as fair as women choosing which breadwinner she fancies most
Well if the thing I. E. "HOMOSEXUAL" will usually make love to it's face before it takes a picture. Post it on the internet have women come to his place and play barbie's.
Also take the same men and put beside them very high paying jobs and their attractiveness will go up. It prooves that all women are gold diggers.
Men overrate women, because there is an additional factor: Would I take her home or not? If yes, it results in extra points, no matter whether it's a 6 or 9. That's why this derivation moves to the right in my opinion.