Is the female equivalent of an incel a woman that can't get a man to commit?

[Anonymous]

If a woman is currently a single, childless 30+ year-old and she's still dating is that the female equivalent of an incel.

After all, both fail in their main function from a biological point of view. Meanwhile the man for whatever reason can't attract a woman and remained an involuntarily virgin, the woman had a couple relationships (live-in bfs that leads to a break-up; she just can't get a man to marry her) but has been unable to get a man to commit and give her kids within her best years.

Yes

No

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1 y

If that woman in that example is depressed because of that reason, being in a couple long-term relationships (living together with boyfriend after boyfriend but no commitment) and can't get a man to commit.

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1 y

She's after all an involuntary unmarried, childless woman.

[Anonymous]

Incel is slang for “involuntarily celibate”. So technically the slang in absolute terms could apply to any man or woman who wants sexual activity but struggles to get their expectations met.

But the actual connotation for “incel” is far more negative. It denotes lonely sexually frustrated men who lash out about their struggles online and off. They theorize that feminism and modern society has created a dysfunctional relations between men and women. This term is often used to label, ridicule and dismiss men who ventilate their frustrations.

Now the the truth of the matter is much more complicated. For one it’s a hard fact that there more and more single men and women in western society. In a different time era most of these people would of been married and had kids by now. Whether or not the marriage created more life happiness (and argue it does is most scenarios) is up for debate.

My question is 1) are our expectations realistic? 2) how do we handle being single? 3) how do we treat people who are single?

Personally I just want to date my equivalent more or less. In my entire life I have only met and dated one woman who I was very compatible with. I have dated several other women but this particular girl at that time was my true counterpart.

However I tragically met her at the wrong time in my life and to further complicate things she started making friends with the wrong crowd. She got involved with improv which I initially fully supported. But then she started rubbing shoulders with far leftist feminists. They influenced her and not in a good way. We already had dating problems but this crap poisoned her mind even more. She ended up breaking up with me which I accepted. But the way she TREATED me (like I was less than human) is byproduct of her new companions.

Anyway everything seems to be about short term gratification and resolutions nowadays. And this is screwing everything up.

[Asker]

She likely already had a weak mind and the crowd she hang out with reinforce it. No one with a strong mind would change for anyone.

[Opinion Owner]

That’s what I kept telling myself. But I loved her because she was actually NOT like that when we dated. That’s why I was so shell shocked by her behavior. I can accept a break up. That’s her choice but how she did it was a matter of respect.

But she didn’t have many friends though and was very introverted. She immersed herself in an environment where she was constantly being told her shitty behavior is justified.

[Asker]

Needless to say she's still an adult and what she does and acts like is on her. She's responsible for it. If someone can change her personality and mindset so easily after getting with the wrong crowd then you dodged a bullet.

[Opinion Owner]

Yes very true. I was far from perfect myself at the time. Didn’t cheat but I acted disconnected. Didn’t communicate well.

But I ask myself what would of happened if I acted better prior to the break up. We would of likely stayed together for a bit longer. But something would of gone wrong down the road.

Anyway I am about 99% sure she cheated on me the week before we broke up. Out of frustration with me she fucked her co-worker and used that as a mental catalyst to finally break up. But to protect her ego she has to see me as lower than pond scum. That hurt a lot.

[Opinion Owner]

Anyway you wondering if I have a case to be made whether or not feminism is responsible for my mistreatment (this wasn’t the only incident but was definitely one of the most painful ones)

In a perfect world everybody could judge for themselves and be true individuals. But our upbringing, environment and collages DO influence our decisions. Especially difficult decisions.

I believe every generation has always had good and bad men and women. There were Cersei Lannisters hundreds of years ago. They exist today.

With that said it’s the middle in the road impressionable people who are being negatively influenced. She wouldn’t of treated me like that if she was raised in a different generation/culture.

This ties back into the grievances many single men have about modern women. There are some legitimacy to their gripes. But the victim complex itself created a vicious cycle. Complaining doesn’t solve anything.

So how do we improve? I don’t know.

[monorprise]

"They theorize that feminism and modern society has created a dysfunctional relations between men and women. This term is often used to label, ridicule and dismiss men who ventilate their frustrations. "

Do we today have a functional relationship between men and women if we can't even have enough babies to sustain our population much less form families to support them?

I think you touched upon the key issue with short term gratification.

Every relationships is built upon needs and must have rules and structure to secure those needs in trade for other needs.
This structure has basically been abolished, with the effective abolition of Marriage as a direct result people have no system upon which to even base such a relationship anymore.

There is no security with no-fault (and Highly unequal) divorce nor is there any common goal of children and security of value to both man and woman as well as the rest of sociality worth justifying the sacrifice.
The Institution simply doesn't exist anymore among ever larger shares of the population. Indeed one has to wonder how you even talk about it's effects given its ever greater lack of definition.

How can you possibly judge the effects of a color without selecting a color to study?

Either way as a culture we are dying for want of stable children who might carry is forward. There literally is no future for our culture if this problem is not solved.

[Opinion Owner]

@monorprise not enough people are willing to accept that there are consequences to your behavior. Also there are core immutable biológical differences in both men and women physically and psychologically. But these natural differences to motivate procreation and a survival of our species and DNA.

Anyway my story is complex. I tried to do the right thing when I was younger. The old school way of doing things. Sadly my upbringing left me woefully unprepared for how “modern” women date. Chivalry is now considered weakness and left me vulnerable to be exploited (friéndzone). So this lead to be to have a “well if I can beat ‘en join em” attitude where I manwhore it up in my late 20s and early 30s. But retrospect I regret that to a certain extent but it was better than having my masculinity insulted through friendzone bs.

[Chazmatazz269]

Of course not. “Incel” is just a continuation of the communication laziness of young people; short for ‘involuntarily celibate’. There ARE involuntarily celibate females.
Maybe there should be a term for “involuntarily single”, but that would include almost everyone. Wouldn’t it?
Also, contrary to popular opinion, it’s widely considered very antisocial to label women negatively. So even if only women were involuntarily single, nobody would be allowed to say anything about it lest they be labeled a misogynist, marginalized and canceled. Women are light and grace and beauty, and sugar and spice and everything nice. Men are heathens and monsters and demons, and snakes and snails and opossum tails. Women can do no wrong. Men can do no right.
Our current system of sociopolitical credits offers no equivalency. Women are God’s gift. Men are an unfortunate necessity.

[Anonymous]

ROFL. Go back to school sweetie. You don't want to be a dimwit with a half dozen children all by different fathers sitting on welfare your entire life, do you?

Incels more often than not have social problems. They are bullied. They may behave oddly. They are, in many ways, typical sociopathic individuals.

A woman in her 30s with no kids typically isn't an incel, she went to university & got a career & didn't become a dimwitted welfare mama contributing little to society.

[BlueScorpio]

Mmm well the whole incel thing is to mean involuntarily celibate, meaning they want to have sex but can't cause of rejection like you said. So I wouldn't say that would make her an incel causes she obviously still catching male attention and getting sex it's just not leading to a lasting relationship.

[BlueScorpio]

So her issue isn't lack if sex/male attention, uts lack of commitment. She'll always have options it's just they might not be around long.

[Asker]

yeah both genders are different and so have different challenges. I couldn't compare it to an involuntary female virgin because we rarely have trouble finding sex/male attention so I had to come up with what a woman wants the most.
Since for us, sex is easily achieved (any desperate man will be willing), that's not our goal. Our main goal is to actually land a man that proposes marriage, which there are fewer men available that'll give her that in comparing to just men wanting sex.
So a woman that had a couple relationships (live together with a boyfriend) but it lead to a break-up, her years were wasted and the man never proposed... she ends up being an involuntary childless, unmarried woman.

[Asker]

While the man is an involuntary virgin (he would've wanted to attract a woman, to have sex, have a relationship with her), the woman is an involuntary unmarried woman. She wanted marriage but the man either never did or kept postponing it with false hopes, kept her in the ''forever girlfriend'' zone. Both are sad and depressed about their situations.

[monorprise]

@BlueScorpio In both cases there must be a reason for the brevity of the relationship, and the fact that the man is unable to secure any relationship at all.

In the woman's case either she is driving the men away or she is only choosing men who have little reason to be loyal and in either case not holding them to some kind of commitment.

Not that there exist any form of real commitment in western culture with the effective abolition of Marriage via no-fault (as well as highly unequal) divorce.

Regardless it makes no sense that there would be such a population of incel with great motive to remain loyal to any woman, as they are unlikely to get anther one and yet none of them are being taken by theses women with no commitment.

Which brings us to discuss their problem, why is an incel undatable?

[coachTanthony]

Sounds more like the woman is settling then being involuntarily not married. She can obviously attract a man now she just needs to set some standards for herself and enforce boundaries. Not even close to a comparison. Most incels can't even get a date.

[monorprise]

How will standards do anything but make her problem worse?

Either she is driving away the men she gets, or she is consistently choosing men who have little reason to be loyal to her.

Don't tell me there are not loyal men out there with such a population that can't even get a date, and thus afford to be disloyal to any woman they do get.

In either case what option does she have for them to commit anyway given the effective abolition of Marriage via no-fault (as well as highly unequal) divorce?

[Guy13]

That’s an interesting consideration. I think age and never married are the two biggest factors. Divorced women were at least not afraid to try marriage or commit. Older women snd kid issues.

[Avicenna]

No, I would not conflate a woman in that situation with a male incel. Those are two very different situations.

[victoriaxoxo]

I actually met many incel women. Many many. They spend a lot of time trying to get into a relationship. They make most of their life about looking good enough to be some guys wife. But more often than not they are used by men for sex only. Most men don't want anything serious with this woman. Eventually this woman agrees to be the 'other' woman in a relationship because she can't get 1:1 commitment from a man. A few things I heard incel women say:

1. I just want some guy to marry me

2. Why are all men such fuckboys?

3. If you ever see him cheat, just don't tell me

4. How do you get all these guys to commit? Do you use dark magic?

5. Maybe it's not so bad to be the mistress, he might eventually leave his wife for me!

Incel men and women are overall very insecure people. They're usually immoral. However, I also think people who exploit incels are also highly immoral. You're abusing a person who is desperate for human contact and connection with no interest of ever being serious with them. It's kinda evil.

[BoobMan]

Eh. Maybe, but it's not a great comparison. From what I've seen, when a woman "can't get a man to commit" it's almost entirely because she's deliberately picking dudes who won't commit. The flip side of that woman for guys would be a guy who ONLY goes after 9s and 10s and always gets shot down, but COULD be banging a 7 regularly. No one would call that guy an incel even if he's not currently getting laid. The "involuntary" part of "incel" means that he CAN'T get laid.

So same thing with a woman. It's not really being an "in-single?" if you're always with dudes and they won't commit. The term of that girl is "bad dating judgement."

[MountAverage]

No. First of all, incels are social cripples (not just when it comes to dating but in general) and have severe mental issues. There's men who don't succeed in dating and are lifelong virgins but who still aren't incels in that sense. They're still normal, decent people, just for whatever reason not capable of attracting women. To be an actual incel is far more about their highly toxic, delusional, and misogynistic mindset.
Also, being a 30+ year old single women (or man) is totally normal. That fact alone doesn't tell you anything significant about their personalities. It just means that her last relationship didn't work out. How is that comparable to being an incel?
And "main function from a biological point of view" - nah, that's not really relevant. This is mostly about cultural/social norms and expectations and their influence on individual desires.

[loveslongnails]

Explain to me how after being in the first long-term relationship with a non-committal guy, she allows herself to be in a second "long-term" relationship with the same outcome?

I'm not sure it's wrong to say to a guy early on, if not the first date "I'm looking for a committed relationship that will lead to marriage (and children), so if that's not anywhere whatsoever what you want, let me know now and save us both some time. If it IS something you want, then let's see if we fit". Or something like that.

She's not an incel by any stretch of the definition, in my opinion.

[Asker]

I think she must probably have bad luck or the guy can lie to her about wanting marriage and kids. There are certain men that fake future and tell lies to string along women.

[loveslongnails]

Of course there are, but I find it difficult to believe that ALL these women around the world are constantly being deceived by lying men, as if they themselves have no radar to pick up on a guy's behavior and his words. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[MCheetah]

The female equivalent of an incel is a feminist. That's literally it, right there. I wrote an entire MyTake to respond to this question, since it was too big to answer here.

The female equivalent of an incel is a feminist. The male equivalent of a feminist is an incel. They are the same type of person.

[vennominaga]

yeah i agree, incel=male supremacist, and both types of people are internet vandals, both are "EDGELORDS", who "THINK FOR THEMSELVES"(sarcasm).

[vennominaga]

both are aged 18-30, who think that their edgy opinions make them so hardcore and superior to the normies.

[Asker]

Interesting. They both seem to blame their misfortunes on the opposite gender and are indeed undatable.

[Price511]

I mean a failure in whatever biological point you’re trying to make (which I presume is having kids) isn’t what makes an incel. It’s getting no bitches and feeling angry about it that makes them an incel.


Incel, noun; an involuntary celibate.
Celibate, noun; abstaining from marriage and sexual relations.


So basically incel has no gender, since “no bitches” and “no sex” is a problem any gender can have. :)

[UnknownSwede]

I wouldn't say an incel has to be angry over it. That is just the ones that you hear about.
You most certainly have involuntary celibates that don't blame others for their situation and become misogynistic.
But you're right that it goes for both genders.

[Price511]

True, that’s a fair response. The reason I added that in is that is also the contrast between the idea of what an incel is to most who think of the word, and the literal meaning of the word. Typically what is presumed from an incel is that they would often be angry about the situation in the first place, so I decided to add that in as a little tidbit. Thank you for the genuine discourse though :)

[UnknownSwede]

Yes exactly. I have a friend that didn't have sex until he was in his late 20's and I never heard him blame others or anything. He was a pretty heavy guy with low self-esteem in regards of his body from that so I guess he knew it was all up to himself to change if he wanted to have sexual relationships. Although I don't know if he was being a hateful misogynistic person in secret online, but I never got that vibe from him.

[Asker]

Both genders have different types of failures. While the incel might fail in attracting women (hence why he's an involuntary virgin), the woman that fails to get a boyfriend to propose marriage is an involuntary unmarried woman. Both of them would've wanted those goals if it was up to them to decide. If the girl would've offered herself, that incel would've taken the chance. Similarly if that woman got proposed marriage, she's happy and accepts it.
They are not in that situation out of choice. If it was out of choice, it would've been declining an offered opportunity.
@UnknownSwede
Hopefully he got the help he needed.

[UnknownSwede]

So I'm involuntary not a billionaire then? So it's the same thing?

[Asker]

@UnknownSwede
If that's what you wanted for the longest and are depressed about it then yes.

[dustybiker]

No. An incel is someone who refuses to adapt. They think the world has to bend to them.

What you describe is a woman with bad luck in the dating field, probably has issues she refuses to change and nobody wants to commit to, but not an incel.

[Lionman95]

I would say no because the difference that an incel is one because he can´t attract and have healthy relationships to women at all.
A female equivalent would be a women who´s been dating for many years but was never able to get into a relationship with guys but was ghosted instead.
It´s also not important how old she is.

[Anonymous]

It depends on what definition you use for "incel". If you mean the actual true definition, which is an involuntary celibate guy, then yeah I think you are 100% right about that.

But if you use the more commonly used meaning of incel now, which is a bitter male who hates women, then I think the female equivalent of that is a feminist.

[Asker]

yeah I pretty much mean a man that has been having bad luck attracting a woman for whatever reason has isn't a virgin by choice. He would've liked to experience sex or even have a relationship but can't get a woman and is depressed about it.
Meanwhile the woman has been in a couple relationship and live together with those bfs but can't get any of them to propose marriage to her. They all end up giving her excuses and keeping her as a ''forever girlfriend''. She can't get a man to marry her. She's an involuntarily unmarried woman.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah that sums it up pretty well. I agree with you.

[Anonymous]

I LOVE ignoramuses like you. You need a kick up the ass.

"failed their main function from a biological point of view"

A lot of people happen to have fertility issues. Some are even born sterile, it happens. To bitches & losers of similar mindsets these people have no value because they can't have a kid. Whereas they more often than not contribute MORE to society & life than someone who has 2+ bastards by 18 & fuck knows who papa was.

[Pudsmucker]

I personally think she has her standards and that they are high. And she's quite finicky on who she dates. I have a daughter that was quite finicky and she married late in her life. A lot of young men that she dated did not meet her standards that she wanted.

[shyonehere]

The whole incel movement on the web was started by a woman (Alana's Involuntary Celibacy Project), so I don't think a "female equivalency" is needed... it's just assumed to be vastly more popular with males at this point.

[monorprise]

A woman dating a man who won't commit within 6 months needs to find a new man.

Men don't commit for a few different reasons, but ultimately unless all of them are time-limited within that window they should be dumped.

[Anonymous]

No a female incel is the same as a male incel. They believe they are nice and therefore deserve every man or woman. Specifically they prefer the most attractive mate even when they themselves lack in looks and have a crappy personality. They have an entitled personality and can't see their own character flaws. They key takeaway is they don't respect other people a boundaries and believe they are all that when they're not.

[CA4444]

Mmmh Im 30 and single and no kids… I could be meeting my soul mate much later in life there is no rule I can’t really force it right.. and I wouldn’t be having kids just because or getting married with someone I’m not deeply in love with

[boggboss]

I wouldn't say the biological function matters anymore as we essentuly tore that shit up when we started modern day life and no I wouldn't say that's the female version of a incel

[vennominaga]

every generation calls themselves the modern day.

[boggboss]

Because every generation is the modern day compared to what was before

[Asker]

The reason I call it their main biological function is because that's how it is from the evolutionary biological stances. The man is suppose to attract a woman and spread his genes meanwhile the woman is suppose to be selective and get a provider within her most fertile years that'll be her life partner. It's not a benefit for a woman to be dating around and be stuck at just cohabitations that lead to break-ups and no child nor commitment.

[Asker]

Likely if the man fails to attract a woman, then his genes aren't passed.

[boggboss]

Yet the ability for women to work and provide has destroyed what we would cannot the main biological function many women also choose not to have kids again with how society is we no longer adhear to the same laws of nature as we once did

[vennominaga]

Friend, from what I observe, most aged 18-27 year old women seem content with playing video games and eating icecream all day. They simply don't give a damn about all that, only men seem to care.

Want to be her friend? Sure. Want to leave her? Sure. If she is a highly hormonal women, she'll have sex too. Although she doesn't "need" sex, clitoral simulation simply induces pleasure, and she can rub herself or use toys. She mainly just wants to live with her parents and play video games.

LOL, I would post an image/meme if I could but my level isn't high enough.

[boggboss]

Funny how I have a partner thats the opposite or all the women that are also in my workplace but if that's what u think fair enough

[boggboss]

Also funny u say women just play games when men are the main consumers of games

[vennominaga]

My point is is that our counterparts - age 18-30 year old women, are invisible on the internet and likely to ignore/reject men simply because they just don't care. A woman's life consists of playing games on her phone, not caring about what's on the news, not caring about "politics" or "religion", and, if she's that type of woman, rubbing her clitoris as a narcotic for depression. And her clitoris does not NEED to ejaculate/orgasm or need to be rubbed, she just uses it as a convenient narcotic. Hence why sex toys are popular among women - women don't care about companionship or men, she just uses clitoral simulation as a convenient dopamine inducer.

Women just don't care. Want to be her friend? Sure. Better not be some overly-attached "creep" trying to get her to "love" you though. She could care less about your gender. And she would rather just rub one out herself, than have to deal with annoying people (gender is irrelevant).

The political fanatics you hear on the internet are the minority of bipolar, psychologically troubled women. The average member is completely invisible and does not use her phone/computer for anything other than video games.

And she might use dating apps for random fun. You know, just bored.

[boggboss]

I got your point but I dont see as to why or what it was applied to when I questioned it I questioned how it was focused on women playing games when I know for a fact that's the past time of males our age as for women in relationships I'm in a relationship with a women in that age range and met her irl I also have female friends and know a few of my male friends partners that don't fit into this box u have explained surly also if women didn't need sex from males hookup culture wouldn't be such a massive thing no?

[vennominaga]

Most internet loudmouths are men. And the female internet loudmouths, misandrists, etc, are just a minority of edgelord narcissist girls.

Women are simply less intellectual and dumber than men. Hence, their indifference to "companionship". Women lack interest in religion, philosophy, or politics, they also lack interest in math and science.

It's women that don't care about relationships or companionship and only about "pleasure". And unlike male masturbation, women get a literal "HIGH" from the mindblowing clitoral orgasm, whereas men merely get this "relief" that allows them to forget about sex.

I would post a meme where an angry male "loser" is a Cho-Seung Hui Mass shooter with a pistol, and female angry "loser" is a 280 lb slob who's angry that her mom won't take her to the zoo (and whose ass has blocked her clitoris from being reachable), but I don't have enough points, so whatever.

[boggboss]

Lol sure thing seems your wither just rambling or venting about stuff I never even asked about

[vennominaga]

yeah well women don't care about men or companionship. they care about eating. and masturbation.

[vennominaga]

they also don't care about Trump. every young woman you meet, and her thoughts are usually "Not a fan of him," followed by "don't care about politics."

[boggboss]

Lol so are most young people not a fan of him lol funny how they are not intrested in companionship yet me and my friends have partner in that age range

[vennominaga]

women don't give a damn about "gender", they just don't like hanging out with men, because males are stronger and might strangle her or beat her.

and of course for sex, any rubbing will do. Women tend to rub better and know the clitoris better than men anyways. Duh. Again, they don't biologically need to ejaculate sperm, but the clit has 9001 nerves for lots of fun anyways.

[boggboss]

Are u copy posting from a red pill forum or aomthing lol

[boggboss]

Your just saying stuff like it's relevant or factual again women clearly enjoy sex otherwise they wouldn't indulge in hookup culture

[vennominaga]

they prefer sex with women, since women know the clitoris better, women are also cleaner, better-looking, and, admittedly, less evil and violent and selfish. (most people hate their dads, because he's a selfish jerk).

[boggboss]

So u are just posting random shit

[vennominaga]

the only thing that women care about is cheese, video games, and masturbation.

[Asker]

@vennominaga
Meanwhile it seems like random posting to me (makes no sense), my question did had a lot of truth when it comes to biological needs between the genders.

[TheSpaceGnome]

No, a female version if a male incel is a female incel.

Also everyone who has ever wanted sex, has been an incel. It just means you want sex and currently aren't having it because you're single.

[DDoSAttack]

FINALLY, someone said the truth.

[TheSpaceGnome]

@DDoSAttack Well I mean it's short for INvoluntarily CELibate. I seriously don't understand why people think it means anything else.

[Asker]

Maybe the genders don't experience the same failure. The reason why I gave those comparisons is because while the man has to do the asking out and attract a woman (then get one to have sex with), we can already easily have sex. We have to get a man that will commit, that will put us the ring and propose marriage within our best fertile years.

An incel is obviously an involuntary virgin (he didn't chose to be a virgin due to religious beliefs or out of choice) but an involuntary unmarried woman isn't by choice either. She wants marriage in that case and is imagines being proposed to but the boyfriend she's living together with doesn't or postpones things or gives excuses. Therefore, that's involuntary too.

[DDoSAttack]

life is garbage either way, sex or not, love or not, i just want some evidence of god's existence, hence i want things in life to go smoothly/the way i want!

my heart is failing LOL.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Not having access to sex when you are horny, is not a sign of failure lol. Nor is having trouble finding someone worth committing to.

Also no, most people, male or female, tend to want both sex and commitment. The casual sex hookup culture is an extremely tiny percentage of the population, what you are referring to is not normal human behavior, it's weird people.

[DDoSAttack]

the word is just an insult, it's like if us men are single, then we're "incels". WTF?

[Asker]

@DDoSAttack
It only applies if he's unhappy about being single and is sad about not being able to attract a woman. If a man is single by choice and happy then nope, the term wouldn't apply in that case.

[TheSpaceGnome]

@DDoSAttack Using it as an insult is only somthing idiots do. It's a person in a particular state of disatisfaction, thats all.

[TheSpaceGnome]

something*

[DDoSAttack]

I'm single because I live with my parents and therefore can't meet anyone.

It's not that I can't attract someone, it's that I don't even see anyone!

what a dumb term.

[TheSpaceGnome]

@DDoSAttack It would be like using hungry as an insult. Just makes the bully sound retarded.

[DDoSAttack]

exactly, a man/woman stranded on an island is an incel, because he/she can't meet anyone.

all those zoo animals who were brought over from africa are all incels as well!