Are we becoming an increasingly less forgiving society?

[Anonymous]

Nobody wants to be a door mat or a victim. But forgiveness isn’t necessarily about letting someone off the hook or just forgetting what happened. Its about letting go a past transgressions.

There are also spiritual reasons for this. I know I’ve harmed people in the past (most unintentionally but not always). But I can’t expect to be forgiven if I don’t forgive others.

I think a lot people on GAG including myself have big hang ups about being harmed by others in the past. It might be good to ventilate about it but to dwell on it forever isn’t helpful.

Yes

No

Updates

+1 y

For what it’s worth I admit I struggle with this. There is one ex in particular who literally who did some very real damage to me years ago. She wasn’t the first or last woman to harm me. But she treated me like I was less then human at the end despite her telling me “I was a good man to the core” only a few months prior.

But after a long struggle I forgave her. The anger/hurt over the memory comes up and I have to remind myself that I have forgiven her. It really did give me an

Updates

+1 y

Odd but legitimate feeling of peace. That doesn’t mean what she did was okay. Doesn’t mean I will ever forget about it. But it’s letting go of a grudge that is weighing me down.

Anyway when there is an old saying “hurt people hurt people”. When you don’t forgive them you will likely inevitably harm someone else who doesn’t deserve it. And if they don’t forgive you then the vicious cycle continues. Then it’s a race to the bottom for society.

[ta-ra]

An alarming amount of people don't want to take accountability for their own actions or play victims. You're either labeled something atrocious or canceled. People are demanded to behave a certain way or be outcasts or stay silent in fear of backlash. It's exhausting and counterproductive. We as humans need to do better, be kinder, and remember that everyone is going through something. Have more empathy and just be more nicer in general. Not group every race, gender. Religion as one and look at individuals. Hold certain people accountable and not the whole. Then maybe the world can start forgiving and healing and stop being so jaded and unstable.

[Asker]

Touche. I see people often “apologizing” for things they shouldn’t (because of societal pressure) but paradoxically not apologizing for thing they should. Bs needs to stop.

[ta-ra]

Correct but most of times their apologies are disingenuous. They do it for damage control.
So people need to be more sincere and more forgiving.

BUT I read your update remember to forgive but never forget, never tolerate anyone who treats you less than anything you deserve ❤️

[Asker]

“ Correct but most of times their apologies are disingenuous. They do it for damage control. ”

Yep they do it for optics which the wrong idea to begin with. But society has placed this paradoxical pressure on people to “apologize” for the wrong things vs not owning up to what really matters.

[Asker]

Anyway I think more people need to bite the bullet and NOT apologize for things they shouldn’t. But there is a very real fear of social ostracism or worse cancel culture. If you have the financial means you can afford to bite the bullet. But if you don’t then this is a horrible catch-22.

But on the flip side we should be more forgiving to people in our personal lives. And forgiveness doesn’t always require that someone sincerely apologizes to you. Easier said than then done but there is real freedom of letting go of that anger/malice and desire for revenge.

[JosyJosy]

Too bad you're anonymous, you come off as very mature.

I'm currently in a tango with a guy who's getting angry at me as if I'm attacking him, but we just share a different view, is all.

"Nobody wants to be a door mat or a victim" What annoys me is that a lot of people want to be a victim or think they are, when they're not. Like you have to walk on egg shells for no reasons. People don't take the time to look at the person and try to understand them and jump to conclusions.

Happy to read this. Faith in GAG restored.

[Asker]

There is something seductive about holding on to a grudge. The anger feels like you are getting back at the person or something.

Forgiving someone for what they did doesn’t mean their mishap is “okay”. Doesn’t mean you suddenly trust them again. Doesn’t mean you even forget about it (but if possible it’s healthy to forget it). It has to do with giving up resentment.

As for the door mat comment. People think it’s weakness to forgive. But it really isn’t. In fact it’s strength. But again it doesn’t mean what the other person did was “okay”.

Also the victim complex is a whole another issue (yet it’s related). People confuse sympathy with respect. Not the same thing either.

[Asker]

Out of habit I post anon. I would de-anonymize this question if I could but I can’t.

Truth is I got a long time hang up over a particular ex. I’m just a but embarrassed to be posting content that mentions her again tbh. But again this about forgiving her (which is easier said to than done). Really need to keep that mindset because it’s the only way I will ever fully heal.

[Sonorous]

I've got a feeling that forgiveness is one of those things we humans have always struggled with. But that since we have the internet making every single controversy just a few clicks away, more eyes can pay attention to it & keep it afloat longer than it would have been kept afloat.

[inhua]

for the vast majority of human history and human prehistory for that matter, we have been very unforgiving to one another. people would cheat, rape, murder and eat one another and not give a shit about it. humans are animals and animals have 2 goals in life, survive long enough and pass on their genes to the next generation

then along comes religion and spiritual belief to give us our morals, ethics, values and a meaningful purpose in life that didn't revolve around savagery

ever since we've gotten rid of religion and spiritual belief, society has reverted back to their animalistic ways under the guise of worshipping liberalism as a new religion instead and that includes being unforgiving to your enemies

and to some degree, this is necessary because tolerance and forgiveness is being taken advantage of by those who weren't forgiving of you to begin with

[Asker]

Very true.

[ManOnFire]

This is a good question. Not sure if we are increasingly becoming less forgiving, or maybe just more open about it. Although I have to admit that it's something I somewhat struggle with myself, especially as a believer. I can forgive a person, but I don't want to stay associated with them. It's like forgiving them from a distance, yet not forgetting what they did and that they could do it again, and maybe not to me but to someone else. And then there are others who I have forgiven and I still mingle with them.

It's funny though. I notice that many people will forgive some of the worst individuals, or people who have done some of the worst, slimiest shit to them, yet they will decide to completely cut off and harbor bitterness to people who's crimes were some of the lightest and least harmful. I think this is a big moral sickness in our world today. I think it's just another human ailment that falls in with 2 Timothy 3.

[Asker]

You have to remember that forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things.

You can maintain distance from someone after you forgive them. You can also forgive them even though they didn’t say sorry. It’s not the same as reconciliation.

[ManOnFire]

Good point. Cuz I can't see myself reconciling with someone who did me absolutely dirty in the past. I also wonder if we as believers are entirely understanding forgiveness right as well. It is difficult for me to grasp the concept of forgiving someone who doesn't even ask for it and is not even sorry for what they did. And it seems counterintuitive to the Bible also: in order to be saved a person must acknowledge that they are a sinner and repent for their sin before God can accept them, yet it seems to be that we are told that we have to forgive all people who sin against us even if they're not sorry. God can reject unrepentant hearts, yet we're told that we're supposed to forgive people even if they're unrepentant. I have a very hard time with this.

[Asker]

“ Correct but most of times their apologies are disingenuous. They do it for damage control.”

There are two significant women in my life I have absolutely struggled with when it comes to this. One was the one I mentioned in the comments. The other is a direct relative. She’s too afraid to have an honest and private conversation with me over some issues.

But as for the ex (only woman I ever trusted 100% in romantic regards). It’s not that I still don’t occasionally get angry and depressed. Not that I still occasionally long for her to reach out to me and make amends for what she said to me at the end. But I have found real power in reminding myself that I have forgiven her. It shuts the demon down in my head.

As for the spiritual end of things. Jesus did say to “pray for those who persecute you”. The Christian concept of loving your enemies is by far the most radical and challenging spiritual concept ever presented to humanity. Doesn’t mean be a pushover and just taking abuse. But “seeking revenge” and holding on to hate has an insidious method of consuming the harmed person. More often then not they end harming someone else who doesn’t deserve it.

But there really is something about it Christian concept of forgiveness. True believers usually have aura of peace among them. And communities that are built on those principles usually stay strong, solid and successful. But America is losing that and it shows.

[Asker]

Sorry meant to post “ Cuz I can't see myself reconciling with someone who did me absolutely dirty in the past”. I know EXACTLY how you feel about that. Exactly.

[ManOnFire]

I suppose that's a good way to look at it. I only ever felt like revenge with one ex, and that feeling didn't last long. The way I tend to look at people who have wronged me us, they'll get what's coming to them so I don't need to worry about it.

[Asker]

I just wanted 20 mins with one ex face to face to tell her exactly about she said to me at the end did very real damage for a very long time. I used to have a very young and fun energetic vibe to myself. But after what she did it was the true beginning of middle age for me.

But I have to be at peace that I will never get closure from her no more how badly I yearned for it.

[ManOnFire]

I used to think needing closure was important or would make things better. The truth is, it really doesn't. It might even make things worse. What she did is what she did. Maybe she even still thinks about it. Maybe she even does want to make it right, but can't bring herself too, or can't find you.

I think sometimes God let's people hurt others not so much for the free will aspect, but because that person is supposed to later on reap what they sew.

[Asker]

Well the context in which I behaved leading up to it didn’t help either. I’ve had plenty of bad experiences with women in my life. But there was something really different about this incident. I don’t think often about the other past incidents but this one stuck with me for a very long time.

But again when I made a decision to forgive her I felt a sense of release and freedom. That doesn’t mean the old pain just vanished. But it really was the best path for healing.

[provokeesmokee]

Yeah, we are, and it's great.

Too long, too many people have been able to get away with shitty things because people had this fucked up "turn the other cheek" mentality.

Now, people are being called out and humiliated for being terrible, which is great. It makes it clear to other terrible people they need to check themselves, and it empowers those who need to check these people to do so.

If folks are acting like shit, then they get called out on it. Then, they face a choice: stop acting like shit or keep getting called out.

[Asker]

Thank you for your feedback however I think you have misinterpreted the bigger picture here. Forgiveness is NOT about the offender. It’s actually about the person who got harmed in the first place. Clinging on to malice is not going to give a happy life.

But I don’t expect to change your mind. But I wish you the best out there. Thanks again for your feedback.

[provokeesmokee]

Not everyone deserves forgiveness and I personally have found as the person who got harmed that there are more benefits to not forgiving.

But my experience is my own, so I don't expect you to understand.

We all have our own experience, lives, and standards.

[Asker]

It’s not about the other person “deserving” forgiveness. They don’t even need to know they have been forgiven. It’s about letting go of malice and the desire for revenge. It has to do with healing. It also doesn’t mean you forget about it either. But again it’s about surrendering that anger/hurt. If you cling on it then it WILL fester. Both harming you and harming others who had nothing to do with the offending person.

I get it that this is easier said then done. The one person I mentioned in my comments seems to jump up in my memory at least once a day at some point. But I know she isn’t going to ever reach out to me to apologize. I also know I am not going to realistically “get revenge” unless I wanted to break the law or something which I would never do.

But she was harmed by a different person before she met me. She thinks she is “evening the score” but harming me to get back at someone else. I could of easily taken my anger over her out on future women I met and will meet. But that’s wrong. Not every woman is the same nor does an unrelated woman deserve to be punished because of the actions of someone else.

So me forgiving her is about letting go of a burden. Because if you don’t forgive someone that burden will always be there whether you realize it or not. It will impact your judgment and you will harm others because of it. That is why forgiveness is necessary and powerful.

[BeeNee]

Through a lot of unfortunate experience I've learned not to just accept the apology when said. Words mean nothing more than the air it took to say them. When I'm apologized to, I simply say, show me with action and not just your words and I will come to accept your apology as truth. The ones that mean it, show it. It's not about being held under some thumb for the rest of their lives waiting for me to say okay. That's not productive in a relationship and I'm not waiting forever for anyone to right their wrongs, but it's about okay you said you won't do this because it's wrong, and you clearly are putting in that effort to correct it or aren't doing it anymore, so we can now move on and move forward. I expect to be held to that same standard, because without that mutual respect and ability to learn from your mistakes, you never will, and your partner will quickly learn your words, your apologies, aren't worth the air they're spoken with.

[Asker]

You are talking about reconciliation above. That’s not the same thing as forgiveness.

I had a very hard time understanding the difference between the two. You can forgive someone who doesn’t deserve it nor do they even have to know about it. It’s about letting go of malice. But it doesn’t mean you forget about it either. But you surrender your desire “to get even”. You give up the malice because it’s actually very poisonous.

[Lady_Heart]

Whenever i find it hard to forgive someone i thk of how many times i did things that god forbid us to do and still he is most forgiving, u wake up everyday n things goes well for u still. Then i also let it go, n forgive even if some didn't ask for it i forgive. For god n myself. Hate isn't good.

God said to forgive but never forget so that u won't repeat the same mistakes.

[Anonymous]

I have no problem forgiving. Where I run into problem is no women want to. I know ANY woman I date at my age is bitter beyond belief. I don't even have a very extensive dating history. So these women want to be bitter at me at an offense I never even committed. Honestly I think most women in my age group are just looking for retribution anymore. This is why I find it easiest just to be single and just wait for the rare woman that's still got a positive outlook. Unfortunately I'll be single and most of them will be single (till they get lonely and date another dud without thinking it through and repeating the cycle) and it's just too bad that this is how it has to be. But I can't do the healing for these women. And I can't make the smart choices for them. So what ya gonna do. ::::shrugs:::

[Asker]

I get real sick of women having attitudes towards innocent men for past transgressions they experienced from unrelated men. I got some hang ups about how some women have treated me in the past. But I have the maturity not to make negative assumptions or worse “punish” a new women I meet thinking it’s “evening the score” or some bs.

Anyway what you described above is pretty much the entire crux of modern feminism. Two wrongs make a right in their backward thinking. It’s f*cking adolescent thinking and nobody wins.

[BeeNee]

This is a red flag for me in men, when they overreact to something based on their past relationships. They are quite literally triggered and choose to take whatever that was for them back then, out on you. Phrases like, "you're all like that," or "I should have known," when they haven't even spoken to you in anything but misplaced anger and you've had no pattern of anything to indicate whatever they are talking about. It's a game I don't want to play anymore because you can't win when someone is hung up on, and hasn't yet healed from those festering wounds. You shouldn't have to tip toe around someone trying to be this ideal of "the perfect woman," or "the perfect man," who is free from any flaws. We all have them, but not every single person you meet is going to "eventually disappoint you." That's a horrible albatross to throw around someone's neck when they haven't done anything to warrant it.

[Opinion Owner]

Yes! This is exactly what I'm talking about! But with women. You can't win if she's like this.

[Asker]

@beenee i actually tried to avoid gender differences in the original question. Of course your life experience will be much different then mine.

However with all due respect I think women are much more heavily influenced by their emotions on this. Their emotions can make them tolerate crap they shouldn’t from the wrong men vs. being way too judgmental of men they don’t feel emotionally “connected” with.

Not to say men aren’t occasionally guilty of this double standard crap themselves. But we typically have better 20/20 hindsight.

[RingOfFire]

You'll forgive me for not forgiving others who portray men of my race as the root of all evil and the oppressors of everyone else.

Screw that. If you're going to push that agenda you will get pushed back twice as hard. If that sounds like a lack of forgiveness, talk to the ones who are doing it, not me.

[Asker]

I get exactly where you are coming from. But this really is for interpersonal relationships not ideology/movements. But I get what you are saying.

[RingOfFire]

Kudo to you for understanding that point. 👍

[RingOfFire]

In my personal life I am extremely forgiving. I know what it's like to go through hell and understand that most offensive behavior people engage in is the result of their own personal hell getting a grip on them that they can't shake. I never hold a grudge and always believe in redemption.

[Asker]

I struggle with some grudges tbh. That’s why I need to remind myself why forgiveness.

But if I don’t forgive others then I can’t expect to be forgiven. And when I look back on everything I’ve done in my life I know I wasn’t always the good guy. Done plenty in my life I am not proud of. Some of it was recently too.

[RingOfFire]

As far as the story goes there has only been one man in history who never did anything he needed to be forgiven for.

Forgiveness isn't only good for the other person, it's good for YOU. It takes a lot of energy to hold a grudge and to hate. You can release that stress by forgiving.

[Asker]

Exactly ^^^^^. You get the entire point I am trying to make. And I brought this up not because I have an easy time forgiving people (I don’t) but to remind myself it’s a higher path.

[Asker]

Also the ideal of forgiveness did originate from Christianity. I am a believer but this ideal in itself has power to it regardless of your beliefs.

But I think non-believers struggle with this more. They aren’t in a community that reinforces the importance of that ideal. It’s getting worse in society too.

But look at my last response to provokeemonkey. I obviously have differences in opinion with ideologies with her. But I didn’t go off on that. Instead was honest how I struggle with this and my it’s self destructive. Also people often confuse forgiveness with reconciliation. They are not the same thing.

[RingOfFire]

I am not Christian or religious, but my religion shares many of the same values as Christianity and so do I, religion or not. I think the point you seem to allude to is right... as societies become less religiously oriented, as American society is becoming, forgiveness, and many other values traditionally associated with religion start to fade and I think that is a significant factor in the decline of many civil traits in America today.

[Asker]

And only a true sociopath can function in a culture such what the west is becoming. This isn’t good.

[RingOfFire]

Yes, the decline of religion permeates Western culture these days and coincides with a decline of moral values. But I'm not sure which is the horse and which is the cart... i. e. whether it is the decline of moral values that led to the decline of religion or the other way around.

[Asker]

Honestly I’ve noticed a slight change in attitude in some people (in a positive direction) who I was ideologically opposed to just a few short years ago. They are starting to see the societal ramifications of their once anarchic worldviews. Unfortunately they had to find out the hard way (while harming everyone else in the process). But there has been some positive change. I’m cautiously optimistic.

[Anonymous]

The loud vocal cancel-loving knob-heads who wield political correctness as a cudgel, to embrace fascistic repression of free speech and free thought... they certainly are.

Historically though, those who embrace such authoritarian thought-control movements, always fall victim to it themselves, inevitably. As the pool of victims gets smaller, the vile movement will devour itself, as each of them realises that no one is perfect and yet the monster must be fed.

[Asker]

Yeah I get exactly what you are saying above. But I really meant to keep this for direct interpersonal relationships.

[Anonymous]

It is not society as a whole that is becoming an increasingly less forgiving, but one side of the political divided that includes The Intersectional/Identitarian crowd etc, they are the ones who have to use the derogatory terms of the day for they see as the slightest infringement.

[jshm2]

Quite the opposite in fact. We tolerate and forgive too much, it's why people are becoming evil and entitled.

People know even if they do their worst, they are less likely to be punished or killed for it.

[Asker]

Well what we tolerate vs what we don’t is a bigger problem.

But a lot of people thought I was talking about ideology/politics in this post. I really was talking about interpersonal relationships.

[Dargil]

People look at their opinions with religious fervor. Its not just disagreeing. Its disagreeing hatefully. Like Trump Derangement Syndrome. It reflects a loss of hope in the future.

[exitseven]

Yes, it has gotten a lot worse in the last ten years.

[TheSpaceGnome]

As a society yes, but I did not change with them.

I never follow society, I either steer it, or ignore it.

[Drewtate]

I think we are becoming a shameless society.

[Asker]

And when it’s “dog eat dog” then it’s a race to the bottom.

There has always been horrible unforgiving antagonistic people in every time era. But the people who used to be more in the middle are more and more looking at this as a zero sum game.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Yes and a lot of them are actually not genuine about it. A lot of people are just insecure and they do it to feed their ego.

[Asker]

Because they are doing that for “optics” which is separate yet very related problem.

[Anonymous]

People love to play the victim card and can't forgive, especially men.

[Asker]

“Especially men”

Alright I intentionally didn’t bring up gender in the original question. But I seem to recall that #metoo had mostly women calling out men for past (unsubstantied) incidents. In cases of real sexual assault and rape it was very justified. But there were several incidents of just bad behavior happening years or even decades ago that women hold grudges against men for.

For example you got people like Jonah’s Hills ex girlfriend complaining about “emotional abuse” and holding on to grudges about how Jonah talked to her.

I don’t see men going public often about “emotional abuse” they suffered from women. Just saying.

[inhua]

men can't the victims under the feminist narrative. they are perpetrators and are responsible for every bad shit that happens in the world

[Asker]

@inhua I intentionally left out politics and gender differences on this question. Forgiveness applies to a lot different scenarios. But I was referring to INTERPERSONAL relationships. Some people have not surprising mistook this for ideological debates.

Also you don’t have to be a Christian to understand the concept of forgiveness. It’s an ideal and not just a religious precept. It can improve your quality of life.

[Anonymous]

Cancel culture existed for ever. In old tribes you would literally need to move out of the tribe if you did something bad

[MJtheCoach]

We do live in a very low IQ D**B TIKTOK world.

[Anonymous]

Yeah Wall Street pushing DEI into corporate America.

[Asker]

I was forced to take this shit at my company.

[Opinion Owner]

It’s every company. You don’t get investments anymore if you don’t agree to the BS.

[Asker]

I think some of this is backfiring though. The real gravity of what really matters (the economy) is making companies stray away from wasting money on worthless bs.

[whistlingwh0res]

I think that children of prostitute and alcoholic creat problems

[FellowTraveler]

In my experience - most definitely.