A US Navy Sailor a stranger Female Nurse at Times Square during post WW2 celebrations
The controversy is that the kiss was non consensual
1 mo
Do you find this famous picture controversial?
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From the NY Times obituary of the "nurse" in the picture...
Greta Friedman, Who Claimed to Be Nurse in V-J Day Photo, Dies at 92
By Eli Rosenberg
Sept. 10, 2016
Greta Friedman, who said she was grabbed and kissed by a sailor in a euphoric moment that made for one of the most defining American photos of the 20th century, died on Thursday in Richmond, Va. She was 92....
The black and white image of a woman and an American sailor was shot by the renowned photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt on Aug. 14, 1945, after the news of Japan’s surrender effectively heralded the end of World War II. The photograph ran as a full page in Life magazine shortly after.
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The photo has served as a symbol of the exuberance Americans felt at the end of World War II, capturing what many saw as a charmingly ideal portrait of the United States at a portentous moment of history. It has been the subject of countless reproductions, re-enactments and tributes.
Greta Friedman But in recent years, some have noted its darker undertones.
In 2012, a writer on the website Crates and Ribbons argued that the picture depicted not a moment of romance, but a “sexual assault by modern standards,” pointing to Ms. Friedman’s description of the kiss during her interview with the Veterans History Project.
“I felt that he was very strong. He was just holding me tight. I’m not sure about the kiss,” Ms. Friedman said. “It was just somebody celebrating. It wasn’t a romantic event.”In an article in 2014 about the photo, Time, whose parent company discontinued the monthly publication of Life magazine in 2000, noted that “many people view the photo as little more than the documentation of a very public sexual assault, and not something to be celebrated.”
Ms. Friedman did not shy away from the photo or her role in it, her son said. Mr. Friedman said he believed she understood the argument that it was an assault but did not necessarily view it that way.
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Most Helpful Opinions
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Yes everybody knows this would like not be okay in modern times.
But this is a famous historic moment about the exuberance of winning WW2. Why can’t we just respect the historical moment for what it is? Why do modern feminists got to cherry pick and tear into this? If they had it their way they would:
- Have the woman being kissed change her story of being “surprised and handled strongly” to being “sexually assaulted”. They want to change verbiage to people equate this with “rape”. Word change = Marxist brainwashing
- They would tear down all statues of this (there is are several including a large one in San Diego), remove any picture of it from educational history books (unless it was negative example) and shame anybody with this artwork.
- They would continue to use this an example of “western white male patriarchy”. Nevermind the heinous atrocities imperial Japan committed during WW2 (read about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre ). They had “comfort women” on their naval ships as sexual slaves during WW2. That was the enemy that sailor was fighting and defeated.
No modern male civilian or military will in right mind go around doing this to random women without risking severe consequences. This serves as artwork not a some bullshit example of “rape culture”. Really how many real life “rapists” were inspired after seeing this?
Yes it was “strong” and wrong if you compare to nowadays standards (yet I remember young women in college hanging up posters of this in their dorm rooms). But it’s also a historical symbolic moment about victory in a major war that threatened freedom as we know it.
If you think western men mistreated women in the 40s you should have read about how imperial Japanese men treated women during war times. They had aspirations to invade the United States at one point.
So appreciate it for what it is and leave it be.
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I've heard about this controversy.
No, I think the photo is an interesting piece of history, and it should not be demonized because culture has changed.
Also, this is a tightly cropped image. The original shows the larger context, and context always matter. It can't be thrown out to suit a different, specific narrative. Too much now is about slant, angle, POV, opinion, political alignment, social causes, etc. etc. This image wasn't created to make a political statement. It wasn't propaganda, either. It was, and is, journalism at its purist.
We can discuss, now, what it means to us (some of us), in this time and age. But what we cannot do is retroactively say that it was then, therefore, bad in its origin. It was a different time, different culture, and that cannot be stripped to apply today's values. Perhaps the woman who was kissed did not like it. Perhaps she was angry or disgusted. Be we don't KNOW this. And we cannot defend her honour, or values, or apply our own, today, to her, back then. What could just as easily been true is that she rejoiced with him. "The war is over, hallelujah!" she may have said, along with him. He fought for his country, performed a duty that many men did, and luckily it did not cost him his life, or hers. If that isn't something worth celebrating, what is...
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No, it's not controversial at all. It's a time of celebration. The war had ended, and if it was me I'd accept his kiss too. History always repeat itself. You need to do some History about world War 1 and world War 2... also , do you're homework about active duty officers returning home after being away for over a year before you past judgment on a kiss. It's sad that you view this as controversial. This kiss is a celebration, a blessing, not controversial. Stop thinking negatively and celebrate your freedom that so many have fought for. Speak to any military veteran and they will explain "the kiss".👮♂️👊🇨🇦✌️
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Maybe he is still alive so we can arrest him and maybe she or her family can get some reparations.
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Not at all. Indeed, the fact that it outrages some in this generation says more about this generation than the alleged offense that this photo is supposed to illustrate.
This photo captured a moment of pure joy and pure relief. From 1941 to 1945 Americans had been getting up every morning not knowing whether they were going to live or die. Even those on the home front sacrificed. Rationing, seeing their loved ones shipped off to distant lands, perhaps never to return.
Indeed, as an aside, my own mother was born 9 days after Pearl Harbor. Her parents had been married for just over a year when she was born. Then, a mere 2 weeks after my mother was born, her father was drafted into the Navy and sent to the Pacific. Leaving behind a wife and a little baby, the former not knowing if she would ever again see the man she loved. Her baby effectively being raised without a father.
This photo then captures that moment when Americans - men and women - learned that the sacrifice and fear and suffering was over. There would always be the memory of those who did not come home, but for the rest, there was hope that life would be normal again - and it was sheer joy.
It speaks ill of the historical ignorance and material indulgence of this generation of Americans that they cannot see that photo and recognize what it represented. From the relative comfort of these times - it's material prosperity, it's physical safety - that someone could see that photo and either not be aware of its' context or see it as an offense speaks to this generation's historical ignorance and self-satisfied comfort. A generation that wallows in its' self-absorption and cannot imagine the horror and sacrifices of a past time and the sheer joy and relief that came when news arrived that the horrors were over.
Nope, this is not a controversial photo. Rather it is an appreciation of the risks and burdens that a previous generation suffered and utter joy and relief that came when news arrived that the sacrifices were over at last. It is, then, not controversial, but a reminder to the current generation of the fear and burdens that their grandparents endured and how much it meant when, at long last, those burdens came to an end.
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Hell NO and the fact that is simply a still picture nobody will ever know what the interaction was moments before the photo was taken. Also considering the moment in time when this took place I doubt very few hugs and kisses were non consensual.
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The controversy is deeper than just it's was non consensual...
It's the fact this image was used as couples goals and seen as oh so romantic for decades before everyone learned the truth that this was infact not a couple and just someone who forcefully grabbed and kissed a stranger on the street. Which kinda just shows we didn't analyse the picture enough, knowing what we know now we can see the awkwardness of the photo, we can see she was caught off guard, the tight grip of his arms holding her in a way she cannot escape from them...
Should he be punished for it? No, should we learn from it? Absolutely. Let's not glorify assault.
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This is the Navy Sailor in the picture... I would have loved that kiss lol
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Some people just need to make a controversy and get offended 24x7
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Right? How dare history prove that once upon a time, the Navy wasn't gay.
In all seriousness though, no. Aside from the picture of the Japanese surrender on the deck of the USS Missouri, there is no more iconic image of the war's end than that photo. If "hurr durr the kiss was nonconcential" is problematic, then I guess we need to just close down all public places and ban social interaction forever because the miserable cows are crying again.
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For reference. A recent article, given the controversy over this photo with The VA. The nurses granddaughter weighs in.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/granddaughter-of-nurse-in-iconic-kissing-v-j-day-photo-speaks-out.html - 830 opinions shared on Relationships topic.
Was the kiss consensual? No. Would it have been, had she been asked? Maybe, maybe not; I've heard many women over the years have claimed to be the one pictured, and the responses have varied.
But here's the bigger question: was his time in the fighting consensual? And the bigger question still: why does no one else ask that? Why is being forced to kill or be killed less controversial than an unrequested smooch?
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Not really , unless she had a problem with that why would anyone else have?
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No of course not. Now if she objected to it after ok that’s her choice. But I think back than, even when I was younger we didn’t make a controversy out of everything. I’m sure a lot of women would love to be swept off their feet like that. Many have them have never experienced a man like that. A man who’s romantic, wrote his girl love letters like my grandpa did w my grandmother when he was overseas during war.
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No, not at all. She doesn’t appear to be pushing him away! Her arm is relaxed at her side to indicate to me she didn’t mind. Ha!
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The demand for controversy is more than the supply these days lol
This will always be a iconic picture
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I've always found it unpleasant because clearly forced.
it's a photo that captures a moment of emotion.
not sure about controversial...
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If this happened today that Sailer would be articled out of the Navy.
Man, I miss my 1990's U. S. Navy.
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It's a kiss, as long as she is kissing him back what's the big deal
- 1.4K opinions shared on Relationships topic.
Probably not quite as controversial as the many rapes the Russian soldiers engaged in.
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It is non consensual, but I don’t think she felt violated so much as startled
- 790 opinions shared on Relationships topic.
Back then guys dipped girls in dances. So she was used to it.
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