Are men more insecure when the woman they are dating/married to makes more money then them or vice versa?

[Anonymous]

I went through this about 10 years ago. My then 25 year old girlfriend made more than me when I was 32. But at the time I was pursuing a dream (I was a professional athlete) and I my time was consumed with training. I was no dead beat but I just had a different focus at the time.

I was doing freelance work just to pay the bills and I was struggling. She even offered me money at one time (which extremely kind of her) but it I turned it down out of pride and went further in debt.

Anyway the insecurity was on my side when it can to this (also contributed to our break up). She didn’t care but I did. It had a lot to with being raised to “be a man” when it came to being a breadwinner.

Nowadays I make a lot more money given I’m retired from my sport and have full focus on my career. But I am also a lot more “boring” now since I’m no longer the free wheeling adventurer I once was.

But money is a touchy issue. Form a evolutionary perspective I really do believe most women still subconsciously expect a man to provide for them even it’s unnecessary or impractical. They might get into short term flings with guys who offer other benefits (looks, excitement, adventurer, personality, etc) but when it comes to long term commitments they have a much higher bar on this

I also believe when a woman makes more money then her boyfriend/husband she’s more prone to cheating. Especially if she is comparable to him when it comes to looks (maybe she will stay loyal if she’s physically unattractive compared to him)

In fact I believe it’s unfairly more socially “acceptable” for a woman to do this given the guy is considered a “chump” if he is financial dependent on her. More more acceptable then vice versa.

I have a divorced uncle who worked a low paying his entire life and was supported by his (comparably) rich wife. She was no multi millionaire but she earned a lot more than him.

She ended up cheating on him the entire marriage. He tolerated it because they had kids and he needed support.

Men are more insecure in this scenario (unnecessarily)

Men are more insecure in this scenario (for good reason).

Women are more insecure in this scenario (unnecessarily)

Women are more insecure in this scenario (for good reason)

Updates

1 y

Interestingly enough the male votes are all over the place on this one and the female votes are exclusively A.

I think it’s because men in general get so much mixed messaging on this. Worse we go into a relationship believing one thing is true just to later find out the opposite. Just too much confusion.

Personally I HATE being financially dependent on anyone. Doesn’t matter if it’s other men, women or the government. I just never want come off as a mooch or freeloader.

[Anonymous]

Statistics show that womenwill divorce much more often if the guy doesn't make more than her. It's probably just a simple "what's the point of this relationship if it's not financially beneficial?" And "wait, so he can divorce me and the government can force me to provide for him, against my will?" And since women aren't simps like men, then bail.

Personally, I would be thrilled if my wife outearned me. She would lose all control over me because I can bail at any time and then make her my slave through alimony and child support.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Thats not a relationship, thats a type of sexual predator called a gold digger.

[Opinion Owner]

@TheSpaceGnome 100% true, but also extremely common.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Maybe in your circles, but in mine its rare. (video gamers, science geeks, comicon cosplayers, tabletop game collectors, etc).

When your hobbies are pricy, and are how you meet people, it weeds out gold diggers, because no one that poor can afford to build a wahammer 40k army, or buy a wall of science literature, retro games, and collectable figures mint in box, or have a closet full of cosplay outfits, or a high end pc rig.

Gold diggers are also mostly airhead bimbos, and I have higher IQ requirements in my social circle than that.

[msc545]

Women have no trouble taking mone from men because they believe it is their right to do so.

Men have trouble taking money from women because they are raised to be "providers'.

[msc545]

A provider is just female code for a simp.

[Asker]

@msc545 once upon a time the word “provider” made sense. A 100 years ago it was extremely difficult (but not impossible) for a woman to make it big on her own. There were a few notable female musicians and actresses who made big money in the 1920s. Also women could vote in 1920s.

200+ years ago virtually no woman could make it on her own. Only exceptions is if she got married to a husband who started up a silver mine, plantation, business, etc, he passed away early and she took over the business and effectively managed it. Not common but it did happen.

Anyway at a subconscious level the vast majority of women EXPECT men to “provide” for them whether it’s necessary, fair or not. It’s evolutionary for them. It takes extra mental effort for them to self reflect on the fairness of the ordeal.

But my ex girlfriend from 10 years ago actually was not like this (at the time). Rare find. But she was also very enamored by my adventurous free wheelin’ lifestyle at the time. If I was just some average boring smuck plodding along I wouldn’t of made it past the first date. I had be “exceptional” in some other way.

Again it actually takes women mental effort (which is very painful for most of them) to look at these situations fairly. Most of them take the easy route of entitlement whether they admit or not. It’s the reason they self justify cheating on a male partners when they have money and he doesn’t. A rich man who cheats on his not rich girlfriend/wife is considered a “scumbag” and she’s a poor victim.

Think of the great Gatsby. One female character Myrtle was cheating on her handsome yet poor working class mechanic husband with Tom Buchanan was a rich guy yet a scumbag. Myrtle was no question a hoe but nobody felt sorry for her poor husband. Meanwhile Daisy who was married to rich Tom was considered more of a “victim” and her emotional affair for Jay Gatsby seemed more justified. But she herself was just a socialite who never earned any of her real money.

[msc545]

You make excellent points, but I take issue with your use of the word "evolutionary" in this context. It has nothing to do with evolution and everything to do with GREED. This is an important distinction.

[Asker]

Both men and women are capable of greed when it comes to taking advantage of their partners. But women generally feel much less guilt about it. Reason being is there was a time in history where being selfish was necessary for their very survival. And although this is extremely unfair, unnecessary and ultimately self destructive in modern times it’s unfortunately preprogrammed into them to think this way. But again many of them are ultimately self sabotaging themselves.

But again there exceptions to the rule on this. Not common but they do exist.

[msc545]

Women have far more opportunities and social approval to exercise their greed than men do, and it is very often focused on men exclusively.

[Asker]

@msc545 yes that is very true. But as men exactly WHAT can we do about it?

There is one thing women crave more from men then vice versa. And it’s not money. Nope. It’s ATTENTION and validation.

Men need to respect themselves and walk when their efforts aren’t being reciprocated. There is an old saying that the “strongest position at the negotiating table is to be about to walk away and mean it.” And if more men could have the self respect to cut the rope when they aren’t getting the respect they deserve then we would have far fewer problems in this world.

But unfortunately too many men have been brainwashed to kiss women’s asses. We also have ego problems dealing with rejection. On top of that both men and women judge single men much more harshly like “he’s alone because he’s lacking something” vs how they judge single women. That bullshit needs to stop.

[msc545]

My short answer is - I avoid them except when I want sex I just pay for it. Kind of a shortcut but it works.

[Asker]

@msc545 i actually was doing exactly that for a while. At least in that scenario the transaction is honest and out on the table. I reasoned to myself “why should I waste 200 bucks on some ungrateful bitch on a first date when I can get right to the point with someone else”. And it’s not just money either. It’s also wasting time and dealing with the disrespect. The psychological aggravation is the costliest of all.

But that can lead you down a different path (sex addiction). Because you get used to getting what you want immediately. But it’s only a temporary relief. You then want more and more. Thats why I gave it up completely.

Anyway be careful.

[msc545]

Excellent points. I have mitigated the sex addiction risk to some extent by sometimes doing the GFE (girlfriend experience) with a few "professional" women I have found myself extraordinarily attracted to / pseudo-involved with too quickly. For me, too quickly is a red flag vindictive of my own latent irrationality, and this is a way to curb that. A few dinner dates and a few day outings with no sex and minimal touching involved, along with liberal conversation, tends to encourage the return to reality on my part. I have had real trouble in the past with sex addiction, so I need to proceed (if at all) with great care now. She still gets paid, but I don't become an addict again - hopefully). I have actually become friends with a few professional women this way.

The trouble with the "GFE method" (as I call it) is when it inverts and the woman becomes unreasonably enamored of me which is not expected of a pro - but it happens. I find this very difficult to deal with and I struggle with it. In the latest manifestation of this, the other night I said, point blank, " I could never really have anything long-term with someone in your profession" to which she responded "If I stop doing this where will the money come from, and what will I do?", for which I had no good response. Almost anything she would at her very young age (22) be qualified to do would involve a LOT less money than she makes now, and I am not inclined to support her. That said, she is a brilliant, beautiful, charming young woman with great potential... I look forward to our time together.

As you can see, GFE inversion, while it may seem flattering, is also a VERY big problem.

[msc545]

*"vindictive should read "indicative - sorry

[Asker]

@msc545 the bottom line is are NEEDED by a woman (money, attention, affirmation) vs WANTED by one (she loves you just for who are).

We can argue that all woman need men to a certain extent (and that’s evolutionary to an extent). But I once was wanted (at least I felt that way) by a one particular women who was viable. I didn’t know how to handle it at the time and screwed it all up (another story). But there is definitely a difference.

Also when it comes to sex addiction it’s often a fantasy addiction. You want to see someone in a way you wished things are.

Anyway no judgment on what you are doing. I get it. Been there. But I did something similar but I was never satisfied. I wanted more and more. Never got in trouble with anything (thank god). But I had a huge moment of clarity with it all about 6 months ago. That’s when I joined SLAA and since then I’ve been increasingly more confident at respecting myself in dating even if it means being alone. F*ck other people’s opinions of me.

[msc545]

I guess I really question the idea of "needed" since as men we can and often do provide all of those things you mentioned (money, attention, affirmation) for ourselves BY ourselves. It is not as though they are unattainable by women although you do mention evolutionary factors (that I might alternatively call "social") which I think are should not so easily ignored as I tend to do.

I am very interested in hearing more about SLAA and about your moment of clarity. Can you DM me, please?

Thanks!

[AI Opinion]

As a relationship coach, it's juicy to explore the dynamics of love and money! Your experience highlights the societal pressures and internal battles men face when their partner earns more. 💸 It's common for men to feel insecure due to traditional gender roles of being the "provider," leading to potential self-esteem struggles. However, let's not ignore the power of a supportive partner, and in many relationships, love and understanding trump financial imbalance.

As for cheating, it's a spicy topic! Financial dynamics can create ripples, but emotional connection and commitment often hold stronger sway. A stable love life is about communication and aligning your priorities. Remember, being financially interdependent is a partnership, not a hierarchy! Embracing evolved relationship models can lead to a happier, healthier connection where both partners contribute uniquely. Keep rocking that adventurous spirit in love! 😉

[Summeroflove]

It really depends I will say though…. What matters is genuine love and connection. If you have that it won't matter who makes more money.

But men need to be aware of women looking for money not all gold diggers get super rich men many marry men and use them who are making a more moderate salary. These women will cheat regardless.

If someone’s going to cheat they’re going to cheat point blank. I don’t care if they’re making millions or staying home unemployed. They’re going to cheat. When you marry someone who has it in them to cheat you’re getting cheated on no matter what. Just remember that.

[msc545]

It ALWAYS matters matter who makes more money.

[Summeroflove]

@msc545 if that matters. Just remember…. If something happens to you and you loose your money or cannot provide. Would she honor her vows or would she leave?

Love should be a deeper connection most don’t understand that

[Summeroflove]

@msc545 it’s men with the mindset like yours. Who get abused. Chested on. And used

[msc545]

You know - fuck you, simp. It is men like men who are careful to make sure that does not happen. You are an opportunity waiting for a bad woman, simp.

[ohsheeT]

Why don't you just become confident and not worry about it believe me in time it all works itself out be confident that her feel secure with you that her trust and respect you because that's what she sees from you that's what it's all about the money money doesn't even matter at the moment breadwinner doesn't even matter at the moment first of all you have to be deeply in love and so does she but when you're worried about little things that's not going to happen quit judging her quit judging yourself and do whatever it takes to provide for her and make her happy it all works itself out

[IslaTheWitch]

my salary is enough to be the sole breadwinner... so... I've never cared much for the occupations and salaries of men I've met... as long as he had a job and could pay his bills, it meant he was independent, and it was all I need to know... :D

also... men I've met were rather supportive of my career and wanted me to be happy with my work...

[Asker]

Fair enough. That’s how it should be.

[ImalwaysrightOK]

More insecure but for good reason. Women that make more are usually cheaters or will cheat as they lose respect and belittle the man no matter how good he is.

[Asker]

Some guys have “emotional leverage” on women in these scenarios. It’s very rare but I’ve seen it happen.

Also some men really have little or no shame about being underachieving dead beats. That’s definitely NOT me though. Being the breadwinner is very important to me. Admittedly so important I self sabotaged myself over it once.

[slickrick6600]

I think it’s so cool if a girl makes more no pressure on me to provide everything, all I want is to know that I can take care of her if she fell ill or couldn’t work. The more she makes the better, i however wouldn’t ever ask her for money or spend her money no matter how much she makes id have to make my own money to spend on things I need. If my soulmate makes 6000 or 600000 a year id love her the same guys who don’t see it that way I don’t understand

[TheSpaceGnome]

I don't subscribe to the whole "breadwinner" thing. My income would be mine, and hers would be hers, and if either of us struggled at any point, the other would help out.

You can't overthink these things. Its a relationship, not a business. if eithee of you is even keeping track of how often or how much help was needed by who, then you are doing it wrong.

[Asker]

Thats a good point. But it can become an issue when one person is financially dependent on the other.

[TheSpaceGnome]

No, it doesn't become an issue, because if both people actually love eachother, the person helping is happy to help, and the person receiving is greatful and eager to return the favor, so they aren't going to remain dependant on purpose, and will make every attempt to regain financial independance.

Sometimes one of them gets sick becomes disabled and then its permanent or at least longterm until they heal, but even then, if a relationship can't accomodate those types of situations, then they don't have any idea what love is.

This is why marriage vows exist. In sickness and health, in poverty and wealth, etc etc. its to let people know what they are getting into when they marry. You do not toss out family like broken toys when hard times happen, you stick together and remain loyal to eachother no matter what, so long as neither person cheats.

[DrPepper12]

If these are the things that cause concern then the relationship is on a rocky foundation to begin with. It simply doesn't matter. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Anonymous]

Dumbass men rejecting kind good women just because he wants his ego to be boosted

If a woman is still dating you even though you make less then her then she doesn't mind it

Stop looking for a reason to throw a good woman away

[oldpigg]

I would only date a woman who is a doctor. Salary doesn't matter since all female doctors have good salaries.

[Asker]

Well good luck with that. That definitely narrows down your options but hey it might work out for you.

[Anonymous]

It's not about being insecure. It's about how a woman treats her partner when he earns less. Not always, but it is often the case that she loses respect for him as a man. I've seen it happen enough that I know for a fact it's a thing.

[CB-Raido-Time]

Men are and were suppose to be the bread winners in life and women have taken men's place and men view that as a form of emasculating men.

[Asker]

Well considering women are both graduating at higher percentages from college AND corporations are intentionally promoting women over men to adhere to DEI this shouldn’t be a huge surprise.

[HungTexan]

It shouldn’t matter in a healthy relationship.

[jahaims]

That depends on the individual not the gender.

[Asker]

Gender roles do still play in. Obviously upbringing, culture and life experiences can factor in. But still there are evolutionary factors that impact both men and women (often subconsciously).