Do you believe women are happier when they are obedient and submissive in a relationship?

[HawkPerception]

Yes

No

Updates

1 y

When I say submissive, I'm not talking about sexually, although it can somewhat be applied in that sense as well

[fartingspinster]

For some girls this is a dream, for others they dont want to be completely obedient and submissive. All is okay.
But I do think more women would be happier if they were in a healthy relationship where a man leads (in his masculine energy) but is also connected to his feminine energy and can properly care for a female that is completely in her feminine energy (wants to follow).
Ballroom dancing is a great example of this. The man leads and has to showcase his masculine form and energy, but he is a partner still and doesn't dance at a speed his female partner can't follow. Males do more work in most dances but the females often times are the ones that shine and the males dont get upset or annoyed that the spotlight is on the female. He is her supporting role. And she in turn makes him also look good because without a good female partner a male doesn't go far in competitions.
Both dancers are in their own energies but together its a dance of yin and yang. Where they know how to upstage each other when needed and downplay and let the other person shine when needed. A constant ebb and flow and thats really how a marriage should work also. A man doesn't always make the decisions in the house by his lonesome if he's taking the lead, he asks her for her opinion and guidance even when she is being submissive and obedient. And she's okay to not worry about the smaller decisions and is happy to not worry about such things when he takes the lead.

Most marriages in the 20s-50s were like this.
But the females married to men who weren't good leaders suffered.
So for females who enjoy being submissive and obedient - you need to really choose your partner wisely and maintain a sense of independence somehow in case things go sour. And he should encourage and ensure you are also.

And for men - if you want a wife like this, you need to accept all the traits of feminine energy and you can't pick and choose. You have to be intune with your own feminine energy or at least just be marveled by the opposite sex's energy and dont try to mansplain and turn her into masculine energy.

[fartingspinster]

Thanks for the MHO!

[NicholasRedone]

@fartingspinster you also well deserved MHO described , even if a bit lengthy, how well a couple can work if the man leads, in a caring way 😋🤭

[NicholasRedone]

@fartingspinster which doesn't mean a woman should not be able to speak up : she always should. "I do what I want with my body" - Definitely, Maybe quote

[fartingspinster]

@NicholasRedone lmao, yeah it is lengthy 😂

Exactly- leading in a caring way. The difference between a tyrant ruler and a caring king.

Yeah, sadly masculine energy to the extremes can be quite toxic... and its not easy for anyone to get a word in or be outspoken in their presence. They get shut down and reeled.

[Bunnynurse03]

Sure, long as there is trust and respect on both sides and you make her feel safe in all aspects, she will submit and be happy to, you WILL need to be that MAN that leader etc. and when all the above falls into place smoothly there will be healthy sex life also.

[NicholasRedone]

@Bunnynurse03 how your own relationship - pants wearer 👖 or is it 50/50 😁, if that ain't too personal to ask

[Bunnynurse03]

Single. Cannot find a man, makes now what ever the age behave like little boys not like men. That’s why there are so many relationships that have distrust, toxicity, no respect. A perfect example of mutual respect and submission in the healthy sense is Beth and Rip from series yellow stone she submits to him. Both masculine people but he makes her feel safe he’s also a man. Being violent isn’t a factor here

[NicholasRedone]

@Bunnynurse03 how did you navigate your 20s lol if ya don't like modern men ; there's the nerds who stay at home or the men who live and breathe the gym - thoughts lol 💭

[Bunnynurse03]

No social media in my 20s was great real men back then dated the honest way no jumping from option to option! Last 10+ years I’ve worked in construction so very front and centre with male behaviour. As for the nerds / gym junkies etc as you call them they are just as bad as modern men as you call them. You all want that old school style of dating no one wants to put in the work both genders. Everyone seems to want to try and find love in this new hook up era. Nothing wrong with nerds or blokes that live and breathe gym.. you seem envy there?

[NicholasRedone]

@Bunnynurse03 nope, I'm just wondering lady how you've ended up alone? 🥁

[NicholasRedone]

@Bunnynurse03 written later : I apologise, that was uncalled for on my part. I'm sorry, I'm sorry for saying such a below the belt hurtful comment. Kind wishes :) for the weekend

[TheRealPepperPotts]

No way. It hides relational problems, is confrontation-averse (even when it's critical), and is a very imbalanced approach to relationships. No way in heck.

I'm not saying women just bowl over guys and are rude and obnoxious, either, but the whole submission concept is generally only applied to women and not men, particularly in church settings, even though scripture states "submit yourselves one to another...". I am very much in support of people operating in their strengths and communication in relationships. Submission is a very open-ended concept and I have seen it abused far too many times. The unhappiest, sickest women I've ever met are in high-submission roles to oblivious men.

My response has nothing to do with thinking women should run the show or dictate everything. It's simply that I don't think any respectful, loving partnership should require one partner to always give up their desires, preferences or opinions just to keep the peace or stay in their lane.

If I have an opinion, I'm going to express it, and if I strongly believe in it, I'll fight for it. But that doesn't mean I'm disrespectful or unable to come to a compromise of some kind on the issue. I just don't see a positive outcome to yielding just because it's "my role" to do so, if that makes sense. If my spouse is insisting on making a stupid financial decision that will jeopardize the well-being of our family, I'm going to let him know and I may involve other people as an intervention if I deem it necessary. I'm generally a peace-loving and agreeable person and I don't like conflict, but that doesn't mean I'll sit by when there's a real issue. It's my job to be a good partner, too, and sometimes that means stepping up when it's hard and letting a guy know, kindly but clearly, that he's making a bad decision and I won't support it.

[Ladsin2]

Well written response. I don't think women, or anyone really, like the idea of submission and obedience. That's for kids and dogs. Do you not think though that women want a man to be a leader? They want a man that's capable and competent that they can trust to lead the family in the right direction?

My presumption is that they want to follow a good man, but don't want to be told to submit or obey. If you have to tell a woman to do so you're likely not capable, competent, or demonstrating that you are those things.

[TheRealPepperPotts]

@Ladsin2 Thank you; I know this can be a touchy subject for people. :)

I think of it like a business. Everyone has a role in the business that contributes to its success. If the marketing director comes into the accounting department and starts punching in numbers and making stuff up, there's going to be a problem, and if an accountant comes into the marketing department and tells them they are all fired, there's going to be a problem. The departments need each other for their strengths and skills, but they don't have a submissive/dominant dynamic overall. They are interacting and communicating based on their understanding, skills and needs. Obviously there are supervisors and managers, but they are not in charge of, say, what their employees are supposed to eat or where they should live.

[TheRealPepperPotts]

The problem with a woman/man submission dynamic as a whole is that there are no clear limits on what that is supposed to mean. It could mean anything from she does everything he says or wants until the day she dies, or that she lets him manage the large financial or difficult decisions for the family. It's too broad and open-ended.

My personal preference is someone who is a responsible person who respects my opinion and insight, of course. :D I see myself as an asset to the partnership who has valuable things to contribute so that life is a success and problems are navigated thoughtfully. To shut my contributions down because I am the woman would be a terrible loss in the relationship.

So, yes. A man who is capable and competent is great. I'd just add that the most capable and competent men are those who utilize the people in their lives for the good of the bigger picture. The idea of a John Wayne style isolationist decision-maker is super unhealthy, and it doesn't really work in real life. We need people. The people I respect the most are the people who chose skilled, quality, trustworthy people to manage things that they aren't good at themselves, and trust them to do an excellent job without micromanaging them.

Just my thoughts and thanks for seeing the heart of what I'm trying to say. :)

[Ladsin2]

Appreciate the follow up! Have a good one.

[TheRealPepperPotts]

@Ladsin2 You, too. :)

[Joshydavid25]

"It's simply that I don't think any respectful, loving partnership should require one partner to always give up their desires, preferences or opinions just to keep the peace or stay in their lane."

I think of submission on a way where, you both have a say, but only one person ultimately makes the choice.. Submission is much more nuanced than just "be my good obedient wife".. It's more like in case of the women "I'm allowing you to be the leader in our family".. Ultimately..

[TheRealPepperPotts]

@Joshydavid25 I hear that. I think if a woman leans that way on her own, it works. If a man is the one trying to force it, or falling back on "submission" because he's simply a terrible leader, it's not good. I used to agree 100% with what you said though. I still kind of agree with the principal of it.

I think the bottom line is that the guy has to be a basically good leader. Assuming he is, he'll receive feedback from his team member when he's wrong and have the self-perception and humility to shift course if needed.

That's kind of why I said submission as a term is too vague. There needs to be some specific perimeters for what submission means, and what constitutes appropriate versus enabling manifestations of it.

[Joshydavid25]

"I think the bottom line is that the guy has to be a basically good leader. Assuming he is, he'll receive feedback from his team member when he's wrong and have the self-perception and humility to shift course if needed."

I think that the simple definition is just to yield.. But I think what you said is the perfect example of healthy submission.. I think a lot of people are afraid of the word "submit" but we do it all the time.. If you're following the instructions of anybody you're in a way submitting to them in some part. A woman simply letting a man lead her is her submitting to him.

[Apple1996]

Nope submission is natural for men not women. Women will play being submissive for protection tho since men act like control freaks because often times they have no control in the other areas of their life besides a relationship.

There's some saying about how men are the head of the household but women are the neck that turns the head. Meaning women have full control but in a sneaky way 😂

[ProbablyClueless]

I've been saying this for years; I don't know where the hell the idea of men controlling women came from (at least in civilized society), because women will straight up do whatever they want to do. The idea of control is an illusion.

Unless there's threats of physical violence and the woman is legitimately isolated, like in a backwoods cult or some shit; she's literally going to do whatever she feels like doing.

[Apple1996]

@ProbablyClueless yep exactly i don't understand it either. We are all in control of ourselves. There is no need for someone else to do it

[DishLady]

Nope. I say “no” bc (as with everything) it’s been taken to an unreasonable extreme and ha led to toxic, abusive iterations that far outnumber the kind, compassionate demonstrations of what it is to love and be loved.

[Finchie40]

The only type of girl I will consider a relationship with , I been with opposite and those relationships sucked compared to a girl that loves being submissive.

[AviatorTom]

I'm sure some women are happier, but most women are not.

[Altheavas]

The concept of its entirety is misinterpreted.
Actually, no one would be happy by being in a controlled environment, where they have to be obedient and submissive to keep the peace.


The context of being happy, and having women retreat to her feminine energy to what seemingly portray obedience and submissiveness are not actually of weak women. She is a capable, industrious, and dependent on her own. The presence of a man to fulfill her needs is not needed, she is content on her own.
Doesn’t mean one size fit all: referring to most women who own that role; some are simply naive, and easy to control. Also, not all men can either.


Where the obedience, and submissive come from, is by having a man in his masculine energy, he is emotionally intelligent, he Listens with action. He sees all her potential and capability, he comes to her life not to control her but to be her partner.
For that woman being submissive and obedient quietly take place, with him being a gentleman, when he is respectful, supportive, caring, a provider (a provider is not all financial.), understanding, patience, she feels safe, no berating. They consider of each other in every decisions before actions. It’s where mutual understandings, communication, trust, transparency, emotional, physical, intellectual intimacy thrive on their own. He leads, and he knows how to leads.
If he assume his role as the man she needs in her life, she will assumes hers, it’s his responsibilities to bring her to her feminine energy, and that she’s able to trust him to lead.
Her respecting him, and trusting his leadership is called submissive and obedience today. Like someone who isn’t bright much. We don’t have much of that today characteristic.
Don’t think either that he isn’t submissive and obedient to her also, they just know their role, and prioritize each other as they should. If he wouldn’t submit to her; and it’s not in equal footing. I would say it’s of weak egotistical masculinity, the relationship is bound to fail.


We’re not perfect, and this is not actually a lot to ask, it’s just requires self discipline and integrity.

[hahahmm]

Women are happier when they have less stress. The reality is that men handle stress better -- at least old school/traditional type dudes. Maybe not dudes who act like women and chug soy milk.

If the guy who is a leader makes good decisions that reduce stress she would be happier. If he makes poor decisions then she won't be. Unfortunately life isn't perfect tho. Everybody makes mistakes.

And as I've said before, nobody is entitled to be leader even tho men were - I believe - intended to be leaders. It has to be earned (similar to respect).

Now the feminists will claim that women are great leaders and better off independent. Don't listen to that. That vast majority of women themselves say they don't want a woman leading. From a male POV the reason is that women prefer not to take responsibility when bad things happen. That's sort of one of the jobs of being a leader tho.

[PeachyPie93]

Yes if I have a good partner I like being submissive to him, but more often than not you end up with a guy who only takes and doesn't give. So it's usually not in the best interest of the women.

[HawkPerception]

Key words there... good partner. I agree with you. Having a partner that disrespects you and expects you to do everything in a relationship is not someone you'd want to follow. And I agree that most dudes have the emotional intelligence of a toad and are lazy to do their part in a relationship.

[fartingspinster]

I agree also. Most men want someone who will be submissive and treat them special, cook/clean and wait on them. Honestly... if a female is willing and wants to do those things, thats great. But they dont realize that acts of service begets acts of service. You can't expect to add nothing in the relationship expect financial income and think thats equal. The girl who is submissive is completely in her feminine energy, and needs to be treated in her feminine energy with kind words, romance, and acts of service also. I love when I see a married couple that understands this, and they live in such harmony. They usually are both vulnerable with each other in the home.

[Crimsyjo]

Not at all. And actually most women are the ones running a household whether she appears so or not. Being obedient is weak in my eyes. You can cooperate and make compromises in a relationship but one should never give up ones own autonomy, desires, wants, goals. I guess some women like it (and sometimes the man) and I can't judge if that's what they like and makes them happy. But defo not for me!!

[Will_Allard]

I don't think anyone should be obedient of anyone else in a relationship, but there will naturally be a more submissive partner usually.

It is interesting that the guys slightly thought that women would be happier is a submissive role than the actual women -- I think that is pretty telling.

My own experience is realising that some women are just better equiped to take the reigns in a relationship. They're a lot less likely to abuse the position as well, which cannot be said for men

[Joshydavid25]

Women love when a man takes the lead.. Some wanna be lead by a man and basically do nothing.. Some even wanna be submissive to the point of being obedient.. So I would say that women are happier when they feel like they can trust a man enough to let him... But it's all about her letting him do it...

[KittygosMeoWW]

I’m happier when I’m not forced to be in a male energy and have to take care of everything. I prefer to allow a good man to lead in the relationship… key word good man. I’m not submitting to an asshole who doesn’t know how to take care of a woman and is misogynistic.

[NicholasRedone]

@KittygosMeoWW I liked how you worded that kitty. The importance of a kind man "who's worth submitting to" ; right?

[NicholasRedone]

@KittygosMeoWW I can't claim credit for the one liner but you may think back to classic WWE with Trish and her boyfriend wrestler in screen lol "if you go out there and be good tonight, I'll be good for you tonight" - saucy 😋🤭😋🤭 oh my.

[sirderpsalot123]

If they aren't being disrespected in the process. Nobody wants to be treated like a child.

I think most women will naturally want to be submissive to their boyfriend/husband assuming they are genuinely masculine in a safe and healthy way.

Men who go on and on about women's submission are just telling on themselves that they aren't capable of inspiring that from the women they're with.

[dustybiker2]

If it doesn't sound like she'd be happy or look like she'd be happy, she's probably not going to be happy in that situation. So no.

[dustybiker2]

Weird gag glitch.

[HawkPerception]

It's been happening a lot to me recently. It will cut my messages in half after I post or it won't show my links or it won't allow me to post images. GaGs devs are really slacking

[dustybiker2]

Maybe it's AI choices. lol

[Calru]

Obedient and submissive? I seen these two words so often the last 7 years connected to women and I disagree every time. I want a woman who feels she can use her voice when she's with me. What's the point of a relationship wife both partners can't speak their minds to tell eachother when they're wrong or to give eachother advice?

Whatever an obedient and submissive woman she isn't for me. I want to know she can handle things if I'm away for whatever reason as I'd imagine she'd expect from me, though I'd also have her back if she ever needed me.

[HawkPerception]

It's not about not having a voice and being a slave. It's about the man making the final decision in a loving and respecting relationship. I would also always want to hear my partner's opinions on things.

[Calru]

Who's to say the husband is wiser than the wife? To be given such authority in the relationship is basically saying his decision is the most important. Whether or not she expresses her opinion in that type of relationship, whatever the husband decides would be the final decision.

Hence, it wouldn't be a relationship with equally expressive partners but one based on obedience of one or submission of choice no matter how small.

[Calru]

Although it does vary culture and environment.

[Ladsin2]

Said A, but think it needs to be fleshed out. I believe that most women want a man that they respect and love to be a competent leader. They will naturally want to follow this man and be happier for it. They don't consider this submission or obedience. They just want to do what he wants to do and trust that he's going in the right direction.

[trumpetplayerforlife]

In my relationship I'm the boss and in control that's the way I like it and it works for me and my husband but in the bedroom he can dominant me all day... if you go on TikTok you will see a lot of women post about wanting to be dominated un be but if he try to tell u to do something outside of bed he will get attitude lol

[Kelley1]

There is a small and specific population involved in BSDM that includes doms and subs. The subs in that population may be happier being obedient and submissive.

That does not apply to the majority of women. Many women in relationships may let the man lead and make most of the decisions. However, they will retain the obtain of speaking up and expression their opinions and acting accordingly.

[ProbablyClueless]

It seems like the relationship is more the result of a woman being happy than the other way around (where the woman's happiness comes from being obedient and submissive).

I think they generally prefer to do be obedient and submissive in relationships, but I highly doubt that you would make an unhappy woman happier through submission to her partner.

[chrissykerdock]

definitely i need to feel femine i don't want to be the man

[HungTexan]

No. Although for some couples it may work. I may be a dominant male, but I still prefer an intelligent an independent woman (like my wife). It works for her too, and she’s only submissive when we role play in sex sometimes.

[NicholasRedone]

@hungtexan or where it's a more refined or personalised refined "dominant submissive" type of duality - or not too rigid - yet somewhat rigid. In other words : it shouldn't always be a catch all - but if it's not then it's like half hearted lol 😂😆 - and it's always "variables" 😋👀 - I think some women are foolish when the man's got no brain when it counts - and likewise a woman who just bosses around her man, is a meanie 😁😲

[Dela_99]

Can’t speak for all women. I can speak for myself. I’m miserable when i’m asked to be “obedient” and ever since i was a kid i was very independent and if i felt someone was demanding me to do something that I didn’t want i’d do the opposite just to piss them off🤣

[alice55]

I would say yes personally because it's a lot less stressful to follow than to lead.

[standardguy]

Obedient is not the right word. She is not a kid.
But being open to accept the decision of her husband is a good thing. If both have discussed the topic, both gave their pros and contras and at last the head of the house has decided then there can be relieve and happiness about the future

[WhitneySnow]

No, I don’t believe that’s universal. But some people are.

[HippoDino]

Statistically men are more happy in relationships than women are, and are less happy than women to be single. It's pretty obvious once you know this that most women are in fact not happier to just be an obedient housewife.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Statistics have repeatedly shown that the most consistently happy group of women are those who are single and childless.

[fartingspinster]

Yeah but on what happy meter? Research is all about asking the right questions.
There are more problems when it comes to marriage and dependents. A single childless female has less problems and is free-er to do what she pleases. And she gets to see neices/nephews grow up. But what if it's a single/childless female that was not out of choice- I'm sure she wouldn't be happy. I've met many... and they are bitter as fuck

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I imagine a majority of the single and childless women they speak to aren’t male-centered like your bitter acquaintances are

[HawkPerception]

@CupcakeTheDestroyer I agree with @fartingspinster on this. Sure, single women may experience higher levels of freedom, self-fulfillment, reduced emotional and physical labour, and on top of that they don't have to raise kids, meaning less responsibility and stress... at least initially. But when life goes on and time catches up to them, they usually start to regret their choice of remaining single. They see other people with families of their own and partners that are physically and emotionally supportive and close to each other and they find themselves lacking in those aspects.

Now I'm not saying that all women that choose to remain single are like that. I'm sure there are many that are completely content with it and that's great for them. Not everyone is cut out for relationships or motherhood.

But I do genuinely believe that having a loving and supportive partner and having a family of your own is what gives people true fulfillment in life.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

If a woman lives a male-centered life, of course she’ll be miserable to be single long-term.

[fartingspinster]

@cupcakeTheDestroyer
I agree that one indicator is whether they live male-centered lives or not. But its doesn't have to be about males. What about lesbians looking for a partner and deciding whether they want to have their own children or adopt or no children.

There's a lot of complexity. And many are social beings who feel fulfillment from sharing in other peoples lives. Whether that mean marriage/partner/children or working in a growth development focus in their jobs touching other people's lives. I find it hard to believe that a human would be absolutely content living alone with no connection. Even animals provide connection and love, but they have such a shorter life span than us its like living an immortal life amongst mortals. Very very lonely

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I’m believing the numbers as someone who’s part of that happiest group lol

[fartingspinster]

*leaving this chat*

[Mikeynlade]

Doubt but I think they have bought the idea that being an independent woman for life is the way to go. Men don't want to take away your independence, they wanna share their life with women.

[NicholasRedone]

Unpopular opinion - for the most part, sure there's particular women who want that in their relationship, willingly

[madgoat]

I think they are happier when they have embraced whatever position in life they find themselves. Pretty much the same as men.

[msg321]

I think nobody (men or women) can be happier being submissive or obedient. As a man I don't want to be like that and I don't want a woman like that. This is not a ancient times slave-master relation

[mathnerd]

Definitely not, at least on my part

[Abdul17w]

Yes I truly do as long as the man is not abusive

[jimmy2]

Ir best to let the man lead but both equal

[Xawyx-2]

No, I don't think so.

[Xawyx-2]

And I'm not saying that just because I like dominant women.

[Godlord]

LMAOOO