By that logic, the only rational belief system is Agnosticism, because it accommodates the possibility of a deity without committing to any of them. Atheism would fall into the same category as religious folks, because Atheists actively believe that there is no god; which is a form of faith.
No, atheists don't "actively believe that there is no god", we don't base things solely on belief at all, we reject that way of thinking. We think logically, not based on blind faith. Calling atheism a religion is like saying that "bald" is a hair colour.
Merriam-Webster defines Atheism as 1. A lack of belief, or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods. 2. A philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods.
You don’t get to choose your own set of facts bud. The second part of that definition calls atheism a religious position and a strong disbelief in god or any gods.
Disbelief is not belief, it's the OPPOSITE of belief. Damn were you dropped on your head as a child? And "religious position" could also mean a position on religion, not a religion itself. Fuck it, I'm not arguing any further. You're trying to solve a really complex concept by trolling and using a dictionary definition, so it's clearly not very important to you. If you want to believe that a big old man in the sky runs the world by causing the random death of innocent people, go ahead. Dig your own grave.
@syskerully I agree completely, that’s why am agnostic. You’ll see from a lot of responses people assuming I’m atheist, which is not true. I believe atheism is just one more religion because it comprises the belief that people hold onto with emotional, irrational, attachment.
@winterfox10 sorry, I meant I agree with you. Atheism is the religion of no religion. If you believe there is no god (s), you are BELIEVING there is no god (s).
@zeitgeist057 your point is based on a technicality and a casual use of language. For example, you just said "I believe atheism is just one more religion", does that mean you follow a "religion" that believes in the religious nature of atheism?
@syskerully clever semantics, but no. I am not attached to the belief that atheism is a belief system in opposition to any logical argument. If you have a decent reason (as it seems you might) to call it a belief rather than a religion, I'm fine with that.
@syskerully I find it interesting that you think I’m trolling you, because I wasn’t trying to elicit an emotional response. The problem with calling this a semantic argument is that we are talking about what words mean. These words have a very certain and clear meaning. The reaction you seem to have to finding out that the definition is different from what you believed it was suggests an emotional stake in your atheistic beliefs. The same emotions that other people use in their beliefs in god. I’m sorry if you thought I was trolling you, that wasn’t my intention.
Religious people are capable of intelligent thought. There were plenty of scientists that had their religious beliefs (like Isaac Newton for example). You can still have a knowledge of the world around you and hold on to your own beliefs.
You are right. I wanted to update myTake, but it appears too late to do so. I was wrong to say a person cannot also be intelligent and rational, it is definitely deeper than that. Thank you.
There is something, though. That keeps people blindly believing in the unverified/unverifiable. I suspect it is fear based, or some other "negative" element of the psyche that I wish to avoid.
No , faith is things hope for.. The Bible demanstrates how reliable the Bible is by things you read in it. It gives us a promise of a better life now and in the future. It's like God told the Israelites when they left Egypt. If you follow my words you will prosper. And they did. But it also if they don't there lives will be full of troubles and strife Which history has shown.
Yes, exactly like Gregor Mendel, if he had access to the exponential growth of information and technology of over a century after he died, and still subscribed to these unfounded beliefs.
I'm very impressed with everyone's historical references, don't get me wrong. But, like a genius goat herder from the Stone Age, G. M. gets an exemption for the information available to him at the time. These days, believing the myths of any religion is an exercise in ignorance.
Very smart people usual also have eccentric and illogical interests. Being able to blur the borders between what is accepted as real today and what seems crazy is a major factor in what makes people creative geniuses… If you are rigidly logical you’ll never do anything important. You need to be a little crazy to think outside the box. Thus why you see many scientists that were also religious, were obsessed with ghosts and the afterlife, play around with “magic” or astrology… Great minds are creative and enjoy playing in all sorts of ideas not just logical ones.
Good points, certainly. We don't come up with original ideas following everything that has already been laid out. Though I wouldn't go so far as to day a "rigidly logical person will never do anything important"... it doesn't take that much imagination to come up with a scenario in which that would be false.
I guess you place importance on a different rung than I do… Semantics... Ideas that change the world do so because they are outside the scope of what is considered real by the consensus. They are amazing, because they are so over the top that they seem magical to most people.
I’d say logical specialists that study the creativity of someone else, help to develop an idea over generations ocne it comes into inception. Breakthrough however come from the edge of insanity...
@BeMuse I don't mean to say imagination and creativity aren't important, just that getting so carried away that you mistake the imaginary for the material, is dangerous.
Yep, that why the establishment always try to shut down the visionaries… Change is dangerous. You have to get a little dangerous sometimes. Sometimes you change the world, other times they poison you and set you on fire...
Sometimes you strap a bomb onto yourself and walk into local mall, and sometimes your government uses your inability to separate the imaginary from the concrete, to recruit you for killing others and obtaining control of their resources.
356 opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
Religion has always been a tool for a few to control the masses of people and make them obey the wishes of those few through far-fetched dogma and unrealistic doctrine.
Not a believer either, but the values of the european culture has its foundation in catholicism. As we saw, Europe was able to separate culture from religion and did progress. However, it doesn't apply for the religion of love, it's so explosive XD
@CrazyRay43 this is great, I really have to have someone here to see this.
@AmandaYVR look at what this man is saying, he's assuming that I'm religious merely because I asked him a question. Not only that he claims that I'm ignorant. This is a good example of why I don't really stay active here this much, you say something and a person will find some way to try and throw in a little insult for no real reason. Sir, I'm not religious, not even at the slightest.
Seems like your own ignorance caused you to assume that I am as such, the irony here is amazing.
@CrazyRay43 and for the record, you didn't even answer my question, maybe answer it? Or are you just unable to answer it? Not too hard too do, assuming that you're "iNtElLiGeNT" and "LogiCaL".
Also, I said "It would be a shame to just count everyone who believes in a good not logical and intelligent" because it wouldn't be "iNtElLiGeNt" to just have the belief in Christianity be the main thing to declare that someone is tottaly a logical and a intelligent person, which I was wondering is that something you completely believed in, BUT I WASN'T SURE so that's why I wanted to ask, but NOOOO you had to go mister aNnOyInG mode on me and say that I'm ignorant and religious, when you don't even know a damn thing about me.
And to think I actually agreed with your Take, how disappointing.
@don-_-don But the asker pretty much said it in his opening statement. He's making it very clear, what his stance is, and that he invites debate/is looking for a fight. Do you want to argue with him? Choose your battles, D. It's either entertainment and a contest of wills, or it's a depressing example of divided ideologies.
I think you have to pick your battles more carefully if you don't want an argument. You walked into the fire here. It is to be expected on such a provocative topic.
P. S. The person who replied to you is not the Asker. They're different people.
@AmandaYVR Walked into fire huh... I didn't think a topic like this was so sensitive.
I didn't even think of this as a battle, I just asked a question.
Well, the lesson I learned from this is that I'm not going to say or interact with someone unless it's actually important or relevant. I didn't think doing something as simple as asking a question would make that happen, oh well, I shouldn't have expected people to be well mannered and respectable, especially those who are older than me. Oh well, shame on me. I say that with sarcasm and seriousness.
And I did not notice that until now, the question wasn't even for him.
Well...@CrazyRay43 you're just an nosey asshole then😑 forget everything I said prior and just know that.
@Don... ahhhh nvm I guess you blocked me? I didn't even respond to you yet.
But if anyone else is following and cares, I didn't mean to say everyone who believe in religion isn't intelligent, but rather that intelligent, logical people could follow a simple, logical process to exit religious beliefs.
I don't argue religion with anyone, nor try to dissuade them from it, even though ever since being a child I have been atheist. But zeitgeist, I concur with you. I liked your phrasing on this, "... but rather that intelligent, logical people could follow a simple, logical process to exit religious beliefs." I have known and talked with many people who were raised encouraged (i. e. as children forced) to follow their family's religious beliefs, but as adults they went their own way and I know of at least a dozen examples where they "exited" for very various valid reasons, such as hypocrisy, judgementalness, being exclusionary, and a real lack of forgiveness. Spirituality may have some benefits, but organized religion can be quite wicked, and me and many others want nothing to do with it.
@AmandaYVR I have a similar story. My mother was a 7th Day Adventist and her parents Methodist. My father was atheist from a Catholic family. I lived with my mom and was raised Christian for about 16 year before I left to live with my dad for a year, then off to college. After taking a philosophy course and thinking for about 2 years, I came to the conclusion that the "God" of my youth was not a belief I could justify holding knowing the potential validity of the thousands of other religions or philosophies. It was at that point I saw it's just an imagination game, and people come up with all kinds of fantastic stories, but that doesn't make them true (even if they could be).
I was atheist for a while, but it was more of a backlash of anger at feeling foolish, and I've settled into agnostic as I simply just don't know. Or rather my belief is that it is impossible to know. I'm glad some other folks here pointed out Einstein, as I think Al was very close to my own stance.
2.7K opinions shared on Religion & Spirituality topic.
Religion relies on believing in things. Science is the opposite of believing: knowing, the word science means knowing. You can't have a scientist who is religious because you can never "know" a religion.
I am a deist so that means i can be religious by choice. Also because there is no 100% proof of the absence of god that's why i'm somewhere in between. If you want to talk about the logical people then those are just people who just judges anyone.
@liam_hayden as I said, " the only logical solution is to just admit you don't know. It's not that hard, it doesn't hurt (unless you are really egotistical/narcissistic, etc). It's just the truth. You don't know. No one does."
Exactly. My point is that all of us at some point make a leap of faith as to what we believe. That leap might be based in logic or not. People like Alister McGrath and the late R. C. Sproul are examples of intelligent, logical people who came to a monotheistic, Christian worldview.
In my opinion of all the big religions, christianity is the least logical one. I love Jesus as a person and the message of Jesus. Everything else makes no sense.
Thats because its a combination of history (highly bias history as it the old testament was basically a journal of the jews who wrote it), politics (because your religious leader was your defacto political leader) and religion. So it gets all kinds of jumbled and messed up as these three things interact causing a lot of conflict within the writings themselves.
Combine that with the fact that its been translated so many times (from aramaic spoken accounts to hebrew written, to latin, to greek, then some cross over back to latin, then old English (which is entirely different from modern English), and then have all context removed from it (it was thousands of years ago, we don't speak the same way as they did (for example just two hundred years ago a coffin refered to any box, in fact cook books routinely talk about coffins which were standing crusts (stiff enough to stay upright under their own weight and to be filled with what ever it was you wanted to put in it), yet today Coffin is exclusively used to refer to the box we put dead people in. So you can only imagine how many issue of context your going to have from 2000 years ago (new testament) and for old testament even longer.).
@Милашка you could also say with the same amount of error: "If you don't like obesity, then why are you so obsessed over fitness? You want to be obese." Another example of a religious person who cannot think clearly, understanding the world only through a distorted lens of the blind believer.
your logic is flawed. Your analogy sucks. I didn't say you like religion. You are obsessed with it not because you like it but because you're scared of the idea of God.
@Милашка agreed we can chat about it elsewhere if you like to post your own opinion. You have twice now argued by putting words "you want", "you're scared" in my mouth. Wrong on both counts. I used to believe in God and it wasn't scary at all, it was comforting. But it was a false comfort. You are the one who is scared to live in reality that has no God. I understand your fear. But don't project it onto me.
hmmm... I think I will prefer the credibility of Wikipedia over "waterwind" and "bethinking". Wikipedia also mentions his quotes regarding Spinoza, and many other quotes which clearly illustrate his agnostic stance.
"... Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true..." "The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve..." "... It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions... If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it..." "My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly..." "... The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this..."
also Einstein wasn't that smart. hawkings basically came along and pointed out a lot of things he got wrong. And hawkings pretty much took it upon himself to come up with a perfect theory to why god don't exist aka black holes would make god pointless. Really good theory that seems pretty true.
@Kaneki05 we all work off the giants before us, but none of them or us really know. Acknowledging that you don’t know is the most enlightened perspective I’ve seen thus far.
That is true about working off giants before us but he missed some very simple things. And true you could argue hindsight is a fortune but eh i still think if he should of realized somethings. he was more the mild of the pack intelligent who worked upon Newton who wasn't that intelligent himself just kinda pointed the obvious that gravity exists since for some reason no else thought about it and started to progress the future to think more rationally which was 100% good thing but i wouldn't say he was highly intelligent just cause he was one of the few people to question gravity at that time.
Just more a lot of even more dumb people existed lol. And true again even hawking admits that he don't know some things and don't think somethings will ever be explained but he's pretty assured on his factual theory on things. And i cannot see a flaw with it and i am still waiting for anyone to point it out.
You can have your own beliefs without crapping on others, I've never understood that, you're really not more logical than you think you are because the fact is NOONE knows what happens when we die
You keep saying I have no idea but I have given you an answer. When you die, your senses stop functioning. You stop thinking, feeling, experiencing anything. We know this because of cases when a person goes brain-dead but their bodily functions are kept running through machines.
@Slim57 no one knows, exactly. which is why if you read the whole thing you will see I said: "... the only logical solution is to just admit you don't know. It's not that hard, it doesn't hurt (unless you are really egotistical/narcissistic, etc). It's just the truth. You don't know. No one does..."
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
41Opinion
By that logic, the only rational belief system is Agnosticism, because it accommodates the possibility of a deity without committing to any of them. Atheism would fall into the same category as religious folks, because Atheists actively believe that there is no god; which is a form of faith.
No, atheists don't "actively believe that there is no god", we don't base things solely on belief at all, we reject that way of thinking. We think logically, not based on blind faith. Calling atheism a religion is like saying that "bald" is a hair colour.
Merriam-Webster defines Atheism as 1. A lack of belief, or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods. 2. A philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods.
Exactly. A LACK of belief. Not this out that type of belief. Just like bald is a LACK of hair, not this or that type of colour of hair.
You don’t get to choose your own set of facts bud. The second part of that definition calls atheism a religious position and a strong disbelief in god or any gods.
Disbelief is not belief, it's the OPPOSITE of belief. Damn were you dropped on your head as a child? And "religious position" could also mean a position on religion, not a religion itself.
Fuck it, I'm not arguing any further. You're trying to solve a really complex concept by trolling and using a dictionary definition, so it's clearly not very important to you. If you want to believe that a big old man in the sky runs the world by causing the random death of innocent people, go ahead. Dig your own grave.
@syskerully I agree completely, that’s why am agnostic. You’ll see from a lot of responses people assuming I’m atheist, which is not true. I believe atheism is just one more religion because it comprises the belief that people hold onto with emotional, irrational, attachment.
@winterfox10 sorry, I meant I agree with you. Atheism is the religion of no religion. If you believe there is no god (s), you are BELIEVING there is no god (s).
@zeitgeist057 your point is based on a technicality and a casual use of language. For example, you just said "I believe atheism is just one more religion", does that mean you follow a "religion" that believes in the religious nature of atheism?
@syskerully clever semantics, but no. I am not attached to the belief that atheism is a belief system in opposition to any logical argument. If you have a decent reason (as it seems you might) to call it a belief rather than a religion, I'm fine with that.
@syskerully I find it interesting that you think I’m trolling you, because I wasn’t trying to elicit an emotional response. The problem with calling this a semantic argument is that we are talking about what words mean. These words have a very certain and clear meaning. The reaction you seem to have to finding out that the definition is different from what you believed it was suggests an emotional stake in your atheistic beliefs. The same emotions that other people use in their beliefs in god. I’m sorry if you thought I was trolling you, that wasn’t my intention.
Religious people are capable of intelligent thought. There were plenty of scientists that had their religious beliefs (like Isaac Newton for example). You can still have a knowledge of the world around you and hold on to your own beliefs.
You are right. I wanted to update myTake, but it appears too late to do so. I was wrong to say a person cannot also be intelligent and rational, it is definitely deeper than that. Thank you.
There is something, though. That keeps people blindly believing in the unverified/unverifiable. I suspect it is fear based, or some other "negative" element of the psyche that I wish to avoid.
No worries mate, it's still a good question!
No , faith is things hope for..
The Bible demanstrates how reliable the Bible is by things you read in it.
It gives us a promise of a better life now and in the future.
It's like God told the Israelites when they left Egypt.
If you follow my words you will prosper. And they did.
But it also if they don't there lives will be full of troubles and strife
Which history has shown.
You have reiterated what I have posted on here for years!
What you mean like Gregor Mendel...
Yes, exactly like Gregor Mendel, if he had access to the exponential growth of information and technology of over a century after he died, and still subscribed to these unfounded beliefs.
I'm very impressed with everyone's historical references, don't get me wrong. But, like a genius goat herder from the Stone Age, G. M. gets an exemption for the information available to him at the time. These days, believing the myths of any religion is an exercise in ignorance.
Very smart people usual also have eccentric and illogical interests. Being able to blur the borders between what is accepted as real today and what seems crazy is a major factor in what makes people creative geniuses… If you are rigidly logical you’ll never do anything important. You need to be a little crazy to think outside the box. Thus why you see many scientists that were also religious, were obsessed with ghosts and the afterlife, play around with “magic” or astrology… Great minds are creative and enjoy playing in all sorts of ideas not just logical ones.
You have to be curious to make discoveries...
Good points, certainly. We don't come up with original ideas following everything that has already been laid out. Though I wouldn't go so far as to day a "rigidly logical person will never do anything important"... it doesn't take that much imagination to come up with a scenario in which that would be false.
we need all sorts, the diversity of humans is one of our great assets.
(And, ironically, one of our difficulties as well, especially in these times. )
I guess you place importance on a different rung than I do… Semantics... Ideas that change the world do so because they are outside the scope of what is considered real by the consensus. They are amazing, because they are so over the top that they seem magical to most people.
I’d say logical specialists that study the creativity of someone else, help to develop an idea over generations ocne it comes into inception. Breakthrough however come from the edge of insanity...
*once
@BeMuse I don't mean to say imagination and creativity aren't important, just that getting so carried away that you mistake the imaginary for the material, is dangerous.
Yep, that why the establishment always try to shut down the visionaries… Change is dangerous. You have to get a little dangerous sometimes. Sometimes you change the world, other times they poison you and set you on fire...
Sometimes you strap a bomb onto yourself and walk into local mall, and sometimes your government uses your inability to separate the imaginary from the concrete, to recruit you for killing others and obtaining control of their resources.
Yep we definitely have different rungs for how we measure importance. I guess we’ll have to leave it there.
Religion has always been a tool for a few to control the masses of people and make them obey the wishes of those few through far-fetched dogma and unrealistic doctrine.
Not a believer either, but the values of the european culture has its foundation in catholicism. As we saw, Europe was able to separate culture from religion and did progress. However, it doesn't apply for the religion of love, it's so explosive XD
Thank you for your response.
So let's get this straight, are you also possibly implying that everyone who believes in religion aren't intelligent?
You can be both intelligent and logical and still have " faith" in a particular religion.
It would be a shame to just count everyone who believes in a god not logical and intelligent.
You only have that opinion because you’re religious and believe that you’re not ignorant... but, guess what? You’re actually ignorant 👍👍👍
@CrazyRay43 this is great, I really have to have someone here to see this.
@AmandaYVR look at what this man is saying, he's assuming that I'm religious merely because I asked him a question. Not only that he claims that I'm ignorant.
This is a good example of why I don't really stay active here this much, you say something and a person will find some way to try and throw in a little insult for no real reason.
Sir, I'm not religious, not even at the slightest.
Seems like your own ignorance caused you to assume that I am as such, the irony here is amazing.
@CrazyRay43 and for the record, you didn't even answer my question, maybe answer it? Or are you just unable to answer it? Not too hard too do, assuming that you're "iNtElLiGeNT" and "LogiCaL".
Also, I said "It would be a shame to just count everyone who believes in a good not logical and intelligent" because it wouldn't be "iNtElLiGeNt" to just have the belief in Christianity be the main thing to declare that someone is tottaly a logical and a intelligent person, which I was wondering is that something you completely believed in, BUT I WASN'T SURE so that's why I wanted to ask, but NOOOO you had to go mister aNnOyInG mode on me and say that I'm ignorant and religious, when you don't even know a damn thing about me.
And to think I actually agreed with your Take, how disappointing.
@Lanadelrey25 please, look at this too, this just irritated me so much.
I do not see what I did wrong here😐.
Some of the most intelligent minds in history were also religious. Faith has nothing to do with intelligence dumbass. And no I'm not religious bub
@Lanadelrey25 thank you😊.
Get it now? @CrazyRay43?
@CrazyRay43 You jumped to the wrong conclusion.
@don-_-don But the asker pretty much said it in his opening statement. He's making it very clear, what his stance is, and that he invites debate/is looking for a fight. Do you want to argue with him?
Choose your battles, D. It's either entertainment and a contest of wills, or it's a depressing example of divided ideologies.
@AmandaYVR I just wanted him to answer my question, not to debate.
I'm over it now, but I just got irriated at how he jumped to conclusions the way he did.
Debating him has no merit.
Besides, his response ruined any desire I would've had in terms of debating him
I think you have to pick your battles more carefully if you don't want an argument. You walked into the fire here. It is to be expected on such a provocative topic.
P. S. The person who replied to you is not the Asker. They're different people.
@AmandaYVR Walked into fire huh... I didn't think a topic like this was so sensitive.
I didn't even think of this as a battle, I just asked a question.
Well, the lesson I learned from this is that I'm not going to say or interact with someone unless it's actually important or relevant. I didn't think doing something as simple as asking a question would make that happen, oh well, I shouldn't have expected people to be well mannered and respectable, especially those who are older than me. Oh well, shame on me. I say that with sarcasm and seriousness.
And I did not notice that until now, the question wasn't even for him.
Well...@CrazyRay43 you're just an nosey asshole then😑 forget everything I said prior and just know that.
@Don... ahhhh nvm I guess you blocked me? I didn't even respond to you yet.
But if anyone else is following and cares, I didn't mean to say everyone who believe in religion isn't intelligent, but rather that intelligent, logical people could follow a simple, logical process to exit religious beliefs.
I don't argue religion with anyone, nor try to dissuade them from it, even though ever since being a child I have been atheist. But zeitgeist, I concur with you. I liked your phrasing on this, "... but rather that intelligent, logical people could follow a simple, logical process to exit religious beliefs." I have known and talked with many people who were raised encouraged (i. e. as children forced) to follow their family's religious beliefs, but as adults they went their own way and I know of at least a dozen examples where they "exited" for very various valid reasons, such as hypocrisy, judgementalness, being exclusionary, and a real lack of forgiveness. Spirituality may have some benefits, but organized religion can be quite wicked, and me and many others want nothing to do with it.
@AmandaYVR I have a similar story. My mother was a 7th Day Adventist and her parents Methodist. My father was atheist from a Catholic family. I lived with my mom and was raised Christian for about 16 year before I left to live with my dad for a year, then off to college. After taking a philosophy course and thinking for about 2 years, I came to the conclusion that the "God" of my youth was not a belief I could justify holding knowing the potential validity of the thousands of other religions or philosophies. It was at that point I saw it's just an imagination game, and people come up with all kinds of fantastic stories, but that doesn't make them true (even if they could be).
I was atheist for a while, but it was more of a backlash of anger at feeling foolish, and I've settled into agnostic as I simply just don't know. Or rather my belief is that it is impossible to know. I'm glad some other folks here pointed out Einstein, as I think Al was very close to my own stance.
Religion relies on believing in things. Science is the opposite of believing: knowing, the word science means knowing. You can't have a scientist who is religious because you can never "know" a religion.
I am a deist so that means i can be religious by choice. Also because there is no 100% proof of the absence of god that's why i'm somewhere in between. If you want to talk about the logical people then those are just people who just judges anyone.
If you believe that nothing became something and organized itself then you have more faith than I or any other religious person will ever have.
@liam_hayden as I said, " the only logical solution is to just admit you don't know. It's not that hard, it doesn't hurt (unless you are really egotistical/narcissistic, etc). It's just the truth. You don't know. No one does."
Exactly. My point is that all of us at some point make a leap of faith as to what we believe. That leap might be based in logic or not. People like Alister McGrath and the late R. C. Sproul are examples of intelligent, logical people who came to a monotheistic, Christian worldview.
In my opinion of all the big religions, christianity is the least logical one. I love Jesus as a person and the message of Jesus. Everything else makes no sense.
Thats because its a combination of history (highly bias history as it the old testament was basically a journal of the jews who wrote it), politics (because your religious leader was your defacto political leader) and religion. So it gets all kinds of jumbled and messed up as these three things interact causing a lot of conflict within the writings themselves.
Combine that with the fact that its been translated so many times (from aramaic spoken accounts to hebrew written, to latin, to greek, then some cross over back to latin, then old English (which is entirely different from modern English), and then have all context removed from it (it was thousands of years ago, we don't speak the same way as they did (for example just two hundred years ago a coffin refered to any box, in fact cook books routinely talk about coffins which were standing crusts (stiff enough to stay upright under their own weight and to be filled with what ever it was you wanted to put in it), yet today Coffin is exclusively used to refer to the box we put dead people in. So you can only imagine how many issue of context your going to have from 2000 years ago (new testament) and for old testament even longer.).
The god of holes, nothing is certain until proven otherwise ; ) ...: ) ; ) : )
This is my new favorite take
:) thanks !
if ypu don't beliecve in God then why are you obsessed over religion? You want to believe that God is not real.
@Милашка you could also say with the same amount of error: "If you don't like obesity, then why are you so obsessed over fitness? You want to be obese."
Another example of a religious person who cannot think clearly, understanding the world only through a distorted lens of the blind believer.
your logic is flawed. Your analogy sucks. I didn't say you like religion. You are obsessed with it not because you like it but because you're scared of the idea of God.
Please don't argue on my opinion. Do it elsewhere.
@Милашка agreed we can chat about it elsewhere if you like to post your own opinion. You have twice now argued by putting words "you want", "you're scared" in my mouth. Wrong on both counts. I used to believe in God and it wasn't scary at all, it was comforting. But it was a false comfort. You are the one who is scared to live in reality that has no God. I understand your fear. But don't project it onto me.
Einstein wasn’t an atheist, that say a lot about who you think is intelligent and not.
@r3dthatdude he was agnostic, which is precisely the same stance I recommend in my take above.
en.wikipedia.org/.../Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein
If you google what he believes it says he believed in the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza:
https://www.waterwind.com/spinoza.html
If you read what Spinoza is and what he means by that
it says he believes in nature as god therefore you are wrong. you blundered by looking at Wikipedia.
Here is also proof
www.bethinking.org/god/did-einstein-believe-in-god
hmmm... I think I will prefer the credibility of Wikipedia over "waterwind" and "bethinking". Wikipedia also mentions his quotes regarding Spinoza, and many other quotes which clearly illustrate his agnostic stance.
"... Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true..."
"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve..."
"... It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions... If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it..."
"My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly..."
"... The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this..."
also Einstein wasn't that smart. hawkings basically came along and pointed out a lot of things he got wrong. And hawkings pretty much took it upon himself to come up with a perfect theory to why god don't exist aka black holes would make god pointless. Really good theory that seems pretty true.
@Kaneki05 we all work off the giants before us, but none of them or us really know. Acknowledging that you don’t know is the most enlightened perspective I’ve seen thus far.
That is true about working off giants before us but he missed some very simple things. And true you could argue hindsight is a fortune but eh i still think if he should of realized somethings. he was more the mild of the pack intelligent who worked upon Newton who wasn't that intelligent himself just kinda pointed the obvious that gravity exists since for some reason no else thought about it and started to progress the future to think more rationally which was 100% good thing but i wouldn't say he was highly intelligent just cause he was one of the few people to question gravity at that time.
Just more a lot of even more dumb people existed lol. And true again even hawking admits that he don't know some things and don't think somethings will ever be explained but he's pretty assured on his factual theory on things. And i cannot see a flaw with it and i am still waiting for anyone to point it out.
You can have your own beliefs without crapping on others, I've never understood that, you're really not more logical than you think you are because the fact is NOONE knows what happens when we die
Death happens. You lose consciousness forever. It's pretty simple to understand, just so terrifying that you don't want to.
Actually it's not, and again you really have no idea what happens
You keep saying I have no idea but I have given you an answer. When you die, your senses stop functioning. You stop thinking, feeling, experiencing anything. We know this because of cases when a person goes brain-dead but their bodily functions are kept running through machines.
You also said im terrified of dying which is not true, that sounds right to me too but still, you dont for sure know what happens
@Slim57 no one knows, exactly. which is why if you read the whole thing you will see I said: "... the only logical solution is to just admit you don't know. It's not that hard, it doesn't hurt (unless you are really egotistical/narcissistic, etc). It's just the truth. You don't know. No one does..."
Religion is for people who are too ignorant to understand the world around them
There's no evidence for or against the existence of a God, thus, your feelings are wrong.
I mean if they aren’t bothering you why worry about someone else’s beliefs system.
They do bother me. They are passing laws, enforcing them, causing wars, killing people, making decisions based on mythology.
This is a very logic and fact based MyTake, which is why it will never have any influence in a religious person.