Why did God had to kill his son (Jesus) in order to forgive our sins? Why didn't he just forgive without such killing?

[Real_princes]

Why did God had to kill his son (Jesus) in order to forgive our sins why didn't he just forgive without such killing?

Updates

+1 y

The problem is... does God by killing his only don condom and encourage killing?

[Anonymous]

What Christianity teaches is that everyone killed Jesus. Not merely the Jewish authorities that instigated his execution, not just Pilate, on whose authority Jesus was killed, and not just the Roman soldiers who carried out the execution, but all of us, because of the weight of our sin.

Jesus was born into Judaism, which, at that time, practiced animal sacrifice to atone for sins.

God’s plan, as laid out in Hebrew scripture, was to send an “anointed one”. It explains that this new king would deliver the Jews from their greatest enemy. At the time of Jesus, that would have ostensibly been the Romans, since they ruthlessly occupied Israel with military force and compelled Jews to pay exorbitant taxes to Rome.

The Jewish expectation for this king was someone who would defeat their enemies. Jesus claimed to be this person, but failed to meet the expectation because he was basically a pacifist who taught that sin, not the Roman Empire, was the greatest enemy. This is the pivotal difference that separates Judaism from Christianity.

Jesus allowed *himself* to be executed as a sacrifice, thereby bearing all of humanity’s sin himself and making a relationship with god available to all of humanity. It was meant to be a powerful symbol to the Jews of the day, who, as I said, sacrificed animals to atone for sin. This is why Jesus is referred to as “the lamb of god”. (Lambs were a common sacrifice.) It should also explain why he needed to die… as a punishment and sacrifice for humanity’s sin.

Christianity also teaches that he rose from the dead three days later. It is meant to show that he was who claimed to be, and that god has ultimate sovereignty over sin.

[Real_princes]

All these limitations are human but the Lord is divine and can't be held to your standards
Besides all of what you said is heresy and is disputed by majority of people

[Opinion Owner]

I chose my words carefully. I said, “what Christianity teaches”. Not, “what is absolutely true for everyone”. What I explained is basic, and not debated within or between Christian churches. So I fail to see how anything I said is heresy.

And what human limitations are you talking about? The rising from the dead bit? That’s a human limitation?

[Real_princes]

The limitations I am referring to are being ki d and just love and revenge all these are human attributed not Devin

[Opinion Owner]

I don’t understand what you’re saying.

[Opinion Owner]

Regarding your update… god doesn’t condone the killing and he doesn’t *do* the killing. The idea is that he lays down his life for humanity.

[Real_princes]

But in christianty there are two gods one is God the other is Jesus and one killed the other

[Opinion Owner]

No. That’s just wrong. I’ve tried to explain it but it’s not sinking in. You have too many preconceived notions and you aren’t going to be open-minded enough to let them go.

[Real_princes]

The limitations I am referring to are being kind and just love and revenge hate all these are human attributes but god is Devine and can't be judged by our standards

[Opinion Owner]

You aren’t making sense. Please state your point coherently.

[Real_princes]

It is clear but read carefully

[Opinion Owner]

It’s not. I can’t even guess what you mean.

You said “all these limitations are human” and when I asked for clarification, you said, “being [kind?] and just love and revenge”. That makes no sense at all. I’m not even clear on whose limitations are we talking about! God’s? Jesus’? Humanity’s? Also what do you mean by limitation? How is love a limitation?

And how is it relevant to the question you asked? Your main question, as I understand it, is why did Jesus need to die? Also, why did god kill him. I’ve explained all that and I’ve put a lot of effort into trying to understand you and give you a thoughtful answer, so please do me the favor of putting some thought into your follow-up.

[Real_princes]

What I meant is that all human feelings of love and hate fear and justice etc are human and god cannot be judged with having the same feelings

[Opinion Owner]

How is that relevant? Who is judging god? And what does it have to do with what you asked?

Are you saying god doesn’t *have* these feelings?

[kiraith]

if you want the true answer , how you put isn't right,
God didn't kill his son at all, understand that the penalty for sin was eternal death meaning no 2nd life, no human is without sin we are all equal because have sinned because we are cursed from the fruit.
jesus saw because of satans manipulation that all who had not sacrificed animals for repentance or who had no idea of truth because of world that would lose most people, jesus offered him self out of his love to save us, it is a gift :) the romans killed jesus not God, you are not talking truth

[Real_princes]

So the penalty of ANY SIN is death regardless of the nature of that sin

[kiraith]

yes any sin that not repented was equal to eternal death ( God wasn't talking bout you should be killed, he was trying to explain the importance of repenting to the 1st lot of people & us) but God had a plan it wasn't tell us all to make us scared it to make us aware, forgiveness can't be earned by any works - no human is without sin, you could do all the best good things in world & not make a difference for forgiving as only God & jesus can do that, it is to show how much we need God & forgiveness or we all deserve to be lost as all equal. but now we are all forgiven because of jesus who chose to come save us, his blood forgave all it only now if you reject the gift like satan tricking people to do.

[kiraith]

you will soon see more changes, the 1st beast will be given its power as its almost fully healed - catholic system not the innocent people but the system, is lying to people & if read proper bible can see it clear. rome killed jesus through satans manipulations of their greed & fear of losing power & their false gods, when rome invaded in dark ages & tortured & killed 100,000 christains they changed the truth to control it, 4 things out in open for all to see that evil dressed as good & lying. 1) keep Sabbath, last day calander is Saturday, ask any catholic priest & they admit changed from Saturday to Sunday, just as jesus warned. 2) break another commandment not worship statues of anything in heaven or false gods- they worship statues of jesus & marry, 3) jesus said confession is between you & God alone, but catholic shame you into thinking need a human prieist forgive you, only God & jesus can forgive.
4) fake baptisms, read bible careful, they all was full submerged

[Real_princes]

This sounds as a knifing god... with all respect This is a punch of BS as God can forgive all of us without the blood of his only son

[Real_princes]

All the four things you mentioned are teaching of Islam

[kiraith]

yes he can forgive without blood but that's not how he doing it or wouldn't needed animal blood at start, because there is power in the blood, is a lot things could be done simple but for certain reasons not all told to us yet, you say Bs yet what was the `1st repentance? why blood of the right animal or pure lamb that's rare? you say understand bout animals blood, animal blood couldn't forgive us all for constant sinning as needed a animal for each sin done, only jesus blood could cover all alive & dead & those to be born yet, God could just forgave then but forgiveness wouldn't be the amazing gift it is that comes from jesus own offering of self, to show us how much really loves us & die for everyone of us & sparing animals for our all sin. as far as islam goes from my understanding they believe in jesus a propthet of some muhammand, cancelling out the trinity that the 3 are 1 , even tho jesus spoke of it, but I know most the rest is same as Christian, but rome is our enemy

[Anonymous]

God is a just God, so when man sinned the punishment for that was death, however God being a loving God, took the punishment for us and took on the form of man (Jesus) and died for our sins. Since he was with out sin he was the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Now because of Him, instead of receiving what we deserve (death) we can have eternal life with Him, as He invites us into heaven if we believe Jesus is God's son, and that he died on the cross (Also did not stay dead) to forgive our sins. :)

[Real_princes]

But cuz God is the almighty he can forgive without killing his son beside justice and kindness is a human feelings and God is Divine

[Opinion Owner]

Yes, God is divine, but still is just actually, he would have to be since he is the ultimate judge over us in the end times. God also is perfect with out sin and no sin can enter heaven, therefor when man chose to sin, it mad God sad. He made a plan though, so he could make us righteous again and allow us to enter heaven to be with Him. That is why Jesus was to die for us, there had to be someone to take the punishment for our sins for us to be made pure. The reason God does not ultimately forgive us with out Jesus's sacrifice is because he is holy and if he did not keep up justice, it would be like a judge on earth letting the murders, terrorists, rapists just go free with out any punishment and just keep going around hurting everyone. It would be awful.

[Opinion Owner]

Here is why I believe God is kind, the Bible says in Psalm 117:2 "For His loving kindness is great toward us and the truth of the Lord is everlasting. Praise the Lord."
Also - Titus 3:4-6 "But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior".

[Real_princes]

Made God sad? You have to differentiate between God and the human

[Opinion Owner]

I actually believe that God is capable of grieving. This verse is one reason why I think that.
Genesis 6:6 - The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. This is the time during the great flood when man was living in extreme unrighteousness and God was grieving that His creations were behaving that way.

[Paris13]

This is the Story of The Salvation Story where God gave His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ to us to Die on that Cross for us so We can learn Who He is and Sacrifice out own Life for Him on Earth by Serving Him. Get Saved.
"Lest a Man be Born Again, He cannot Enter that Kingdom of God."xx

[Real_princes]

This is very biblical.. we need some thing factual
As a Christian you may believe that out of conviction but for others they need reason and logic

[Anonymous]

He chose to. He didn't have to

Similarly, thete are many sacrifices in hindu mythology which were not needed but people chose to sacrifice.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images

[Real_princes]

Thanks for the info

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah, krishn is very similar to christ

[ecfresh]

Because of free will. As humans we have the freedom to either follow God or Sin (separation from God). If God just forgave all sins then everyone would be able to do whatever they wanted all the time and there would be no consequences. We have the freedom therefore to follow Jesus and accept Him as our Savior or turn away from God. If we turn away then we will be judged.

[Real_princes]

We can accept Jesus and follow him.. But did God had to kill him so we can do that

[ecfresh]

Nope. Jesus died to fulfill the scriptures and to conquer sin. Before He died people were judged by their acts. Now thankfully we are judged by Faith, much better for humankind. Yes Jesus had to die in order to set this up correctly.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

God The Father is holy and can't behold sin before His holy eyes, therefore He sent His Son Jesus Christ as a perfect sinless life sacrifice on behalf of sin that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized shall be saved from the wrath to come.

The blood of Jesus Christ washes away your sins, but if you refuse and continue to harden your heart to the calling of Holy Spirit to come to Christ and accept and believe the gospel of the lord Jesus Christ then you will be damned to hell.

[Real_princes]

Again all these feeling od sin and anger and revenge are human and can't be attributed to divine God beside whT example god is giving when he kills innocent person to eradicate the sins of others

[MrKinktastic]

The Romans killed Jesus, his father just allowed it to happen.

Or in a more metaphorical sense, its so that you are able to relate with his story of life, love and rebirth and use that for your own spiritual growth. His is not the version of the story I use but the rebirth story is deeply important to most religions in some way shape or form.

[Real_princes]

He allowed it and Jesus died on the crosd

[MrKinktastic]

That is more or less what the first interpretation I gave said yes.

[Cammy137]

Its a story. Sacrifice is one of the major keystones of every religion that has ever existed.

[Real_princes]

It is not just a story Jesus did die and sacrifices in other relegions is by animal not sons of the lord

[Cammy137]

1. No, you have no evidence to support that beyond a collection of gospels that were written 2000 years ago, some written decades after they supposed events.
2. Wrong, in other religions MANY sacrifices are made by Gods. Atum in Ancient Egypt sacrificed his all seeing eye in search of his children, Odin sacrificed his own life in search of knowledge, Buddhism is about sacrificing the vices of life in search of enlightenment.

[genericname85]

actually all of the books were written a few 100 years after it happened. nothing in the bible is even close to contemporary eyewitness accounts.

[genericname85]

also nothing that is mentioned in the bible can be found in scriptures from the actual contemporary times.

[Q-tip-boy]

Read Mahabharat and you can see number of sacrifices
The truth is that Christians unnecessarily boast about a single sacrifice.

[Q-tip-boy]

And dont you think that it was judt because of *lack* of foreknowledge that god had to sacrifice his son?

An 'all knowing ' 'almighty' god should have stopped satan from fooling his children but instead he let satan fool his children. And God didn't even tell Adam and eve about the 'complete' truth about the knowledge tree.

God had to sacrifice his son because it was his mistake that he couldnt stop satan from misleading Adam and eve

And it was God's *Dharma* to do it. So you shouldn't be boasting about it because it was his duty (righteousness) to do so.

Buddha sacrificed wealth and kingdom. Buddhists never boast about it

Mahadev gave his sacrifice (he gave away his wife) to create the universe but have you heard anyone boast about his sacrifice

Eklavya sacrificed his fingers for his teacher Dronacharya

Danveer Karna gave away his armour and earings for his mother and died in the battlefield but no one boasts about it

[Q-tip-boy]

There are many many sacrifices made by "the Lord"(in different religions) but the people belong to those religions never boast about it

Christianity is a story based religion and christians dont stop boasting about a single sacrifice. They creat fear of god and use human's greedy nature to seek converts showing them the benefits of heaven.

God could forgive even without sacrificing his son. It was his choice and his dharma to sacrifice his son. So stop boasting about how 'the lord sacrificed his son'

[Cammy137]

In response to your update: Throughout the Bible God regularly encourages murder and death. It's not news. He even offers it as a reward to his followers, vowing to help them raise armies to conquer lands. Let's not forget that God has also killed many children himself. He had plenty of practice before sending his own son to die.

[Q-tip-boy]

Plenty of children...

I think you're talking about the story of Moses

Yeah, it was stupid in his part to do it. He had no valid reasons for the killings

Christian image of God is just unbelievable

I was shocked to know these stories when I first learnt about them.

These stories are meant for creating fear of God and controlling people by making them feel greedy about the benefits of heaven

[Cammy137]

@Q-tip-boy Exactly. The way I always looked at it, even as a kid being told these stories in school, church or at home, was that the Old Testament is supposed to make your fear God. It demonstrates his power, his ruthlessness, his violence, his rage, and his wrath. The stories are essentially the stick, smacking the donkey's ass. The Old Testament is essentially the bad cop. While the New Testament is supposed to show you the loving side of God: look, he sacrificed his own son, his own mortal form, just to rid humanity of its sin. The New Testament is the carrot that the donkey chases after, it's the good cop. Of course you then reach the end and it returns to the bad cop: Jesus will return and bring hell to Earth.

[Real_princes]

@Q-tip-boy wow what a discovery

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137 exact

[Q-tip-boy]

@Real_princes thanks and i shared this with my friends and they laughed at the cristian hypocrisy and their exclusivity claims.

[Real_princes]

@Q-tip-boy any time my good man

[jacquesvol]

It's not sure Jesus ever existed

[jacquesvol]

His existence was never proven

[Jjpayne]

Meooow!
media3.giphy.com/media/FRg1FUARsn96/giphy.gif

[Jjpayne]

wow did that go in the wrong place … sorry but while I am here

[Jjpayne]

For what I am taught sacrifice is in the blood, when adam and eve sinned they needed the blood of animals to cleanse their sins because they were impure. This was to show that no man or woman could deal with sin on their own, they needed help. That's why Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice, he shed his blood once and for all. No more blood of animals. Life is in the blood and that's why Jesus had to die to give his life as a ransom for many

[Real_princes]

All these limitations are human but the Lord is divine and can't be held to your standards

[Jjpayne]

I think that was biblical... What I said, I could pull out scripture if that's less confusing

[Real_princes]

Nice God bless

[BigRob420]

He didn't kill his son to forgive us, Jesus gave his life to save us. This is to portray that some good people will die in the fight against evil. Don't give up and keep fighting for what you believe is right to your last breath.

[Real_princes]

He gave his life and God carried out the execution.. What kind of God is that?

[BigRob420]

One that does not impead free will.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

There's only one reason that makes sense: Jesus was a Ginger. So obviously God had to kill him and the authors of the Bible had to erase that detail from history.

[Real_princes]

What does ginger mean

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

You know, a ginger kid. A kid with red hair and freckles

orig00.deviantart.net/.../...hegoon503-d6nsrwd.jpg

[Real_princes]

Do God killed him cuz he was ginger

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

It's the only explanation

[jacquesvol]

@Real_princes red haired

[mattdzz]

It’s a metaphor that nothing can be done without sacrifice. Lemme guess, you want “free” healthcare, tuition, education, rent etc too, right?

[Real_princes]

No... but Jesus did die

[mattdzz]

We all do

[Real_princes]

But he was supposedly killed by his father

[genericname85]

lol yeah or why did he make us to sin (he knew that's what was gonna hapen right) so he just created us to punish us, cause he gets a sick kick out of punishment right? he even killed his own son... what a sick fuck.

[Real_princes]

Relax dude... this is God you are talking about

[genericname85]

so what? am i going to hell now? xD i'd prefer going to hell, cause the devil actually seems to be a nicer dude overall... but make no mistake i believe in neither of them anyway. and if you believe in god, then from your perspective it's my problem if i insult him, not yours right? ^^

[Real_princes]

God bless you

[genericname85]

it's so ironic when you say this to a person that doesn't believe in god xD i know it's not meant in a bad way but it still makes me chuckle every time xD

[Real_princes]

What is XD means

[genericname85]

Laughing with eyes shut? Dunno. I just always use it xD

[jacquesvol]

According to religion, god invented everything. Sin too, thus.😆

[genericname85]

@jacquesvol yeah. he's ultimately responsible for every evil we do so he has to go to hell. he sacrificed his son in vain xD but well i guess he likes people dying for stupid reasons...

[jacquesvol]

@genericname85 a complete OT full of murder , rape and genocide
And in Acts 5 he kills two people for dodging church taxes.

[Anonymous]

Because it wasn`t God that killed Jezus. If there was a God, do you think he`d let Jezus, his son, die lol

[Real_princes]

But that what the bible says

[Opinion Owner]

The bible was written by a bunch of men to control the masses.

[Real_princes]

So u believe Jesus didn't die

[englisc]

Haven't you realised that much of the Bible contradicts itself and makes no sense whatsoever?

[Real_princes]

Yet did the Lord kill his son

[englisc]

I don't think that the Christian "Lord" even exists, so no.

[Real_princes]

All books of all religion s are thecsame

[Anonymous]

Christ wasn't the son of the god of this earth. He was sent to pay the price to fulfill the covenant made with the god of this earth and redeem us, and to tell the Truth to those who would hear it so they could be free.

[Opinion Owner]

Our Father didn't kill Him, their father did. Their father most definitely condones killing and all other sin. Look at the events of the old testament. He either ordered them to break commandments under the threat of death, or rewarded people who broke them.

[Real_princes]

So you Believe there is a God of this earth and other God for other earths

[Real_princes]

So who is your father and who is theirs

[Opinion Owner]

Christ told us already. All you have to do is read it.

John 14:30 and 8:44

What you've been taught isn't necessarily the Truth. You must read and think for yourself (eyes to see and ears to hear) and pick who you trust to teach you (you have but one teacher)

[johnwalker732]

All the sins and wrongdoings of mankind were taken out on his son and not on humanity. Instead of them suffering, he took their punishment for them so they wouldn’t have to.

[Real_princes]

Why not forgive without killing

[Anonymous]

He didn't have to. He chose to. As to why, we have guessed many reasons but who can know the mind of God?

[Opinion Owner]

"does God by killing his only don condom and encourage killing"

You're either trolling or you missed the point of the story. He condones self-sacrifice.

[Real_princes]

But why did he chose to kill if killing is a sin

[Real_princes]

Why the rudeness

[Opinion Owner]

"But why did he chose to kill if killing is a sin"

Again, he didn't. Your inability to read basic English, is no doubt the source of your many confusions in life.

[Real_princes]

Your aggressive and rude attitude shows your lack of education and manner and further shows you give a shity example of Christian

[Opinion Owner]

I'm not a Christian. Again, you make a lot of incorrect assumptions.

Try not to. You'll get further in life.

[Real_princes]

I don't need your freaking advise asshole keep it to your stupid delfg

[Anonymous]

they were stuck in abrahams bosom

they could not go to heaven
so imagine waiting 4000 years just for Jesus
that's a long wait

they were taken care of but could not go to heaven
once he died took back the keys

they could go to heaven

[Real_princes]

God can make them go to heaven without killing his son

[Opinion Owner]

nope their are rules in place

[Guanfei]

You're asking for logic in a fairy tale. That can't work.

[Addie_Taylor]

So you don’t believe in a after life

[Guanfei]

@Addie_Taylor Nope, no reason to. You die, that's it.

[Addie_Taylor]

That’s what you would rather believe

[Real_princes]

A lot of people don't think it is a fairy tale

[Guanfei]

Doesn't matter what you think, because that's all it is: something you believe in, there is nothing behind it, no proof

[Real_princes]

And no proof to the contrary

[Guanfei]

In fact, yes, there are proof. You could use almost every science discipline to disprove everything.
Starting by your god. Come on, seriously, an immortal and omniscient supernatural being who always existed and created the universe? That's kids stuff.
Jesus? Existence never proven. And I don't even talk about his "powers" that are, again, right out of a fairy tale.
Genetics proves that Adam and Eve story isn't possible.
The Flood? Same, no trace of such event.

And we could go on. Almost everything in your book goes against the laws of physics, from people walking on water to resurrecting the dead. All of that is nothing else than a fairy tale.

[Real_princes]

That is why they are called MIRACLE

[Guanfei]

Miracle that no one ever filmed or photographed, and are strangely much, much rarer since we have the tool to show it to everyone.

[Real_princes]

You mean miracles are not happening now because they were hearsay

[Anonymous]

Is what the church wants you to think

Jesus was Jewish. The romans killed him because he was Jewish

[Real_princes]

Actually the new instigated his killing according to the bible

[Opinion Owner]

What?

[Guanfei]

Nope. First, it's unlikely he existed. And if he was killed, it was because people called him the king of jews. Which was spitting in the face of the roman power and denying the authority of Rome. That's why he would have been killed, for rebellion.

[Opinion Owner]

He did exist. And he was killed, he was killed by the romans, FOR BEING JEWISH

[Guanfei]

Nope, try to make it antisemitism all you want, it's not. He was killed for being a public nuisance, and Rome authorities thinking it could lead to a rebellion.

[Opinion Owner]

No, he was jewish, they killed him because he was

[Guanfei]

Everyone was jewish there at that time, did they eradicate the whole population? Stop being so ignorant please.

[Opinion Owner]

They would have

[Opinion Owner]

Anti semitism has always been around. Since the times of the ancient egyptians, all the way up to modern times. they continue to try to ERADICATE US

[Guanfei]

Dude, either you're a troll, or you must be one of the most uneducated idiot I've read for a while. Go read some history books, you apparently need it.

[Real_princes]

Don't be paranoid no body wants to eradicate you..

[jacquesvol]

@Guanfei indeed

[jacquesvol]

Many tried to eradicate Jews: Romans, Goths in spain, Polish , Romanians, Germans...

[jacquesvol]

And Russian czars

[andreasderjuengere]

To make a statement, perhaps? Nothing is for free.

[Real_princes]

But why kill and his son just to make a statement?

[andreasderjuengere]

God's forgiveness is one of the greatest things to get from him. So in return, to sacrifice a bunny only, would not have done. Only Jesus' body was killed - three days later he was better than ever.

[Real_princes]

Don't agree

[andreasderjuengere]

That is your right.

[jacquesvol]

It made such a convincing legend

[Real_princes]

But is it true

[jacquesvol]

Update: in the whole Bible you'll find murder, rape and genocide in every chapter. And abortion too.

[jacquesvol]

*Nearly every chapter*

[Real_princes]

All books of all relegation s have the same