"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." Agree or Disagree?

[Still-alive]

Said by Seneca the younger an ancient Roman philosopher

Strongly agree

Agree

Disagree

Strongly disagree

Undecided

A total of 40 votes were cast: 13 girls and 27 guys. See detailed results

[TransAm85]

Carlin and Pryor are 2 of the best comedians hands down. I wasn't born til '85 so I was too young to understand what they were talking about when my mom watched them. lol I was raised Catholic and went to private schools, but I've met all different kinds of people with different beliefs. This Hindu man made a funny remark.. we're all like top soil on this huge planet, but we still worry about everyone else's opinion, yet we're all the same. :) That sums up society today!

[LovingLoverReturned]

Religion is False, meaning? It doesn't exists? 🙃.. lol the wording you use is tricky.
Also... Religion is what teaches that there are false religions. So then the wise are also religious...

But many practices if religion do it as keeping tradition alive... imagine you travel and everywhere is atheistic... there would be nothing to observe besides the land...

[LovingLoverReturned]

Exist

[Still-alive]

The roman guys words not mine :P

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

@LovingLoverReturned Are you a teacher or lecturer?

[LovingLoverReturned]

@The_Shadow_Dweller lol why?

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

@LovingLoverReturned Just the thought process is like a teacher😅
My mom's a one, so I could sense that vibe.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@The_Shadow_Dweller yes lol

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

@LovingLoverReturned
In school or in college? Like graduate or post graduate college...

[goaded]

"Religion is False, meaning? It doesn't exists?"
How do you get from there to there?

Religion obviously exists. What they say is simply not true, it is false. They all say that about the other religions, but fail to make the final logical step that their religion is also not true.

There's infinite evidence for people (and animals, even) lying to gain an advantage, there's none for any of the gods religions claim.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded what lie exactly :) ?

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded you think you are so logical. Fine.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

Religion is there for people to have faith in something. To rely on something in desperate times.
When a group of people is formed, a new entity can be formed to support the people at least mentally. This entity as the group grows turns into a religion and then the group into a clan. And then after thousands of years, traditions get formed, around the corr values of the entity.

That is why so many religions are there in this world. As many groups, as many religions.

Its okay for you to believe and not in any religion. Its true if you think it so, and its false if you think it so.

Simple. Also, not all people are strong minded, and all of us need an imaginary assistance at some point. Hence religion...

Its neither good nor bad as both the sides of a coin. The religion resides on the width of the coin. Exactly in between.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@The_Shadow_Dweller @goaded there is a basic thing atheists don't understand. It's so simple. Anything can be a God. Anything can be worshipped.
2) They trust in the unknown and trust without evidence countless things. They really have no choice.
But each person has their own experience and know why they believe what they do.
3) it is never wise to stereotype.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Referring specifically to the atheists on this thread.

[LovingLoverReturned]

And to the ones who think alike

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

@LovingLoverReturned Yess. Exactly.

The entity I mentioned can be anything from a stone to a tree. You just need to have faith in it.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@The_Shadow_Dweller people look for results. And they stick to things that yield results. Just know that
. take care ✌

[goaded]

"Anything can be a God. Anything can be worshipped."
That didn't make Prince Phillip a god, though, did it? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_Movement

"2) They trust in the unknown and trust without evidence countless things. They really have no choice."
"They" being atheists? Only for the reason that there is too much information for a single person to absorb. However, what they believe in is usually supported by evidence that you can look into.

"But each person has their own experience and know why they believe what they do."
That is essentially defining "truth" as "what I believe", and not "somthing that is objectively the case". Any other species as intelligent as humans may eventually discover that things are made up of atoms, they won't re-write the Koran.

Earlier, you asked me "what lie exactly?" - For a start, anything that goes "God is angry...", or "if you do this God will do that".

"3) it is never wise to stereotype."
"there is a basic thing atheists don't understand."

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded.. referring to atheists on this thread is not a stereotype... I witnessed exactly what they said for myself

2) People will trust the government or a scientist word, many never having done experiments themself... because scientists don't lie... and scientists have no motives... whether you like it or not, you like to admit it I realise it or not you have to put faith in things :) and people...
but who is disagreeing with science anyway? I'm not..

1) I don't see the relevance nor do I know who prince Phillip is.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

@LovingLoverReturned
Yess. Results speak more than other things. 👍👍👍

[goaded]

It didn't look like you were referring to just the two of us, but OK.

You don't have to take a scientist's word for anything (although you'd be wise to in most cases where they're talking about their area of expertise). You also don't have to perform the experiments yourself. All you have to do is listen to an explanation for some phenomenon, pick some aspect of it, and ask "how do you know that?". You can do that over and over, getting deeper and deeper into the centuries of knowledge that led to their understanding. Some times, you'll get to a point where the answer to a question (usually "how does that happen", rather than "does that happen") will be "we don't know yet". That doesn't mean everything they've found out is false.

"1) I don't see the relevance nor do I know who prince Phillip is."
And you couldn't be bothered to click on the link I provided and read the first sentence or two.

He was the Consort of Queen Elisabeth II, and worshipped by a religious sect. He was not a god, even if those people believed he was.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_Movement

"The Prince Philip movement is a religious sect followed by the Kastom people around the villages of Yaohnanen and Yakel on the southern island of Tanna in Vanuatu. It is a cargo cult of the Yaohnanen tribe,[1] who believe in the divinity of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh (1921–2021), the late consort to Queen Elizabeth II. "

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded doesn't change what I say. I could give you possible reasonable explanations for many things... doesn't have to mean the explanation is right because it is reasonable. People go with it anyway. They trust.. they have no choice

Often as years past you hear the statement from scientists "what we first thought we understood"...

You seem not to be aware of scientific America admitting to what science really is that science is. Perhaps because you are an atheist and not a scientists... or a scientist who isn't aware of this.
www.scientificamerican.com/.../

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded obviously I wasn't referring to Philip being a God if he don't know who who is...

I said "people can worship anytime and make anything a God"... God basically means something or someone with authority (not necessarily self given authority... someone can just make me their God without my permission) and believed to be strong or powerful...

[goaded]

I'm pretty sure nothing I say is going to change what you say. And "[Science] can’t supply absolute truths about the world, but it brings us steadily closer" (the sub-heading of your article) is precisely my position.

That article's headline is: "If You Say ‘Science Is Right,’ You’re Wrong", but it's not as wrong as saying "Science Is Wrong".
www.scientificamerican.com/.../

[goaded]

Prince Phillip was a person, a thing, and he was worshipped as a god. Gods aren't just "strong or powerful", they're super-natural.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded sometimes supernatural :)... are you to describe what a God is? Or is religion to describe? Lol... pretty funny if you want to argue with religion about what a God is

2) ... and lastly I will say atheists who feel they have support of most atheists should think again. And Many have no science behind their beliefs.. it's simply they feel that the word is a bad place... I never said you think you have much support... I'm just putting this out there

3) I wasn't referring to the two of us.. I was referring to those on this thread... I said that.

4) in the first place science has nothing to do with religion in most cases... so whether science is true or false doesn't make religious beliefs true or false... when it comes to the physical earth, not all religions belief things that contradict science.

[goaded]

That's twice you've twisted someone's words in this opinion. I didn't say "sometimes", @Still-alive didn't say non-existent.

Gods are supernatural, by definition, not just heroes.

"3) I wasn't referring to the two of us.. I was referring to those on this thread... I said that."

You said: "@The_Shadow_Dweller @goaded there is a basic thing atheists don't understand. It's so simple. Anything can be a God. Anything can be worshipped. "

Not "you two", not even "you atheists", which could have been ambiguous, just "atheists". Then I pointed out that Prince Phillip was worshipped as a god, even though he wasn't one.

Of course "science has nothing to do with religion in most cases", it ignores religion as irrelevant. It is not the same in the other direction, though, is it? (And which religions don't make any claims that contradict science?)

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded YOU didn't say sometimes. I am telling you it is sometimes.

2) you did not read carefully... When someone said God is false. They ususlly mean he doesn't exist... I NEVER said @Still-alive said God doesn't exists... I asked still alive a question to clarify what exactpy they meant

3) hindus, Christians, Muslims, and more... Denominations of those religions. I bet you are fixated on specific sects of those from Abrahmic religion...
I don't know if you are unaware or dishonest... most religions barely mention anything related to science thus there is nothing to contradict... and yes... I've read the books
If you looks at the Bible doesn't talk much about things that can be disproven by science... but it is good with archeology and geography if that's the science you refer to...

[LovingLoverReturned]

3) you haven't given me anything... you are the one claiming things without giving examples of naming a specific religion... I am only left to assume you have the same thing in mind always about 6 days in the Bible as your whole basis for implying that all religious groups beliefs contradict science... and i will ask you, do you deny that literary devices exist in language?

[LovingLoverReturned]

I will also ask you do you even know that the Bible says that things were created in 1 single day?

What is the point? The point is... the word day doesn't refer to 24 hours if 1 day and 6 days were used to describe the same thing.

And what will they tell you? Some will say it was a epoch... for example "in Shakespeare's day".

And when they say...

[Still-alive]

"the word day doesn't refer to 24 hours if 1 day and 6 days were used to describe the same thing."

Who says it doesn't mean that? citation?

[LovingLoverReturned]

So what exactly are you talking about. Are you saying all religions contradict science? And give a few example if tou want to go down that road. I honestly don't care to defend all religions.. but I just might or at least hear what you have to say

[LovingLoverReturned]

@Still-alive read the whole comment , :)

Day has more than one meaning.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@Still-alive and you didn't answer my question... do you deny that language has literary devices?

Anyway. I prefer to focus on one conversation at a time... thank you. I don't have all day to be on gag

[Still-alive]

you didn't cite anything.. most people know what 'day' means. when you say something contrary to that you must provide evidence. you provided nothing. just rambled on...

[LovingLoverReturned]

@Still-alive If you become exasperated because of all these notifications. Just remember you are the one who started this... and are prodding it further

[Still-alive]

im not exasperated... but you seem to be a slippery one in your responses... so far. :)

[LovingLoverReturned]

Give an example of my slipperyness @Still-alive

[LovingLoverReturned]

And what does that mean? Do explain

[Still-alive]

not until you provide proof that a 'day means more than a day in the bible' :)

[LovingLoverReturned]

There is no proof that a day means 24 hours in the Bible honey

[LovingLoverReturned]

The proof is that 1 day and 6 day was used interchangeably

[LovingLoverReturned]

So I have proof but you don't

... I even have second proof when I gave an example of tan epoch... when something has two meanings, you are only assuming which meaning is correct. But with the proof I provided shows that it means the second meaning

[goaded]

And a third time!
@Still-alive didn't say God, he quoted someone saying the wise saying *religion* is false.

I said religion is lies. You're saying gods aren't supernatural, when I don't think any god would be described as natural. Prophets, heroes, maybe, but not gods.

Any time a religion states as fact that their god (or gods) created everything like it is now, they're contradicting science. At least the Dalai Lama accepted that the moon is indeed a large celestial body with mountains, etc., when he was shown it through a telescope.

"If you looks at the Bible doesn't talk much about things that can be disproven by science... but it is good with archeology and geography if that's the science you refer to..."
Not geology? Or cosmology?

If you accept that "literary devices" make up most of what the bible has to say, we have no problem, but that's not necessarily what people believe. And you say that what people believe is true, don't you?

I'm not just focused on Genesis (and the other religious creation myths), I'm pretty sure eating pork and shellfish isn't too problematic, let alone beef fried in butter. I'm mostly focused on the Abrahamic religions, but that's because they already convinced people that the Greek, Roman, and Norse pantheons were bogus religions. People believed in them, too.

The good parts of religion can be boiled down to "be excellent to one another!". But they don't do that.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded I am waiting for your examples of where the Bible contradicts science

[Still-alive]

Oh yeah? why do we need proof a day means more than what most people know a day means?

It's like saying "There's no proof the clock mentioned on that show refers to an actual clock'...

We all know what a clock is so why should we think it means something other than what we all think a 'clock' is? unless they provide evidence within the text or something that indicates it means something different. so onus is on you to provide this evidence a day means more than a 24 hour day.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded and to save us both time... I will say something else

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded the Bible never said that certain foods are bad for you... you are making assumptions...

Just because I tell you "do not do this" does not mean I said "doing this is bad for you"... there can be a number of different reasons for saying such... in some cases...

Why is there a rule for civilians not to wear army attire in some countries?

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded there is no need... I already told you that the Bible and other religious books are not made up of science related things... a fee barely touch on them...

[LovingLoverReturned]

You asked for proof... I never said you needed it.

Further there is a need for some people because ""1 day" and "6 days" are usd interchangeably...

So congratulations.. now you know what an epoch is. Do you want a cookie?

[LovingLoverReturned]

Lord, where is the logic from those speaking about logic?

[Still-alive]

lol you are so disrespectful when you argue too... biting...

see very slippery. we ask a question and you provide nothing other then gibberish you just made up.

anyways ill make my leave now. Goaded here is better a this than me.

[LovingLoverReturned]

If I don't tag anybody by default... I am talking to the owner of this thread @Still-alive

But.. with sn exception... just now I was talking to nobody in particular when I said "lord...

[Still-alive]

" Lord, where is the logic from those speaking about logic?"

it's all over the place in goadeds responses to you... but you aren't paying attention it seems.

[Still-alive]

also you just profaned. congrats!

[LovingLoverReturned]

That's your opinion @Still-alive

[Still-alive]

lol thats all you got huh? amazing.

welp im done here

[LovingLoverReturned]

You and goaded have lots of opinions about the religion and the Bible. But the Bible is there. It is in hardcopy. It says what is says.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Not only about the Bible... but religion in general... is generalizing...

[Still-alive]

Right and if it says 'day' it doesn't mean day apparently...

[LovingLoverReturned]

Day doesn't have one meaning. You aren't being logical right now.

[Still-alive]

ok lets see the quote where it says a day isn't a day. :)

[goaded]

So far, you've asked if @Still-alive said Religion doesn't exist when he clearly only quoted someone else saying religion is regarded by some as false, that gods are (sometimes) not supernatural (without giving an example), and that you only meant the specific atheists in this conversation, not all of them, when you said "there is a basic thing atheists don't understand. It's so simple. Anything can be a God. Anything can be worshipped", then ignored the fact that Prince Phillip was not a god (as I'm sure he would have told you himself) despite being worshipped.

Name a creation myth that doesn't conflict with science. Or a god whose adherents don't think is divine and supernatural.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded prince PhillipPhillip p Philip prince phillip.. you keep repeating.. he has no relevance to most religions groups.. your one example doesn't cover everyone.

The examples are worshipping statues...
And yes pharaohs were considered God's

Now your turn to give examples of where.. let's stick to Abraham religions contradict God..

3) I clarified that I meant "atheists here" . You can't read minds... right now you are assuming what I meant despite me clarifying. Weilk you argue with me over over own thoughts... bravo. m.. very logical goaded

[LovingLoverReturned]

I'm correcting a mistake in wroting:
Your turn to give example of where religions abrahaimc... contradict science

[LovingLoverReturned]

Not only are you trying to read my mind

The tactic you are using is talking about irrelevant things... let's stick to the science discussion... that is your field of expertise :) so tell me a few examples of science statements in Abrahmic books that contradict science

[goaded]

You're such a fan of science, I'm sure you understand the importance of a counter-example. Like "All things fall to Earth" - "nope- helium doesn't".

My obvious point was that just because something is considered a god, that doesn't make it a god.

"I clarified that I meant "atheists here" . You can't read minds..."
I wasn't reading minds, I was reading words, which needed that clarification, which sounded like back-pedalling.

Anyway, the bible vs. science:

[LovingLoverReturned]

By the way.. I was using sarcasm... I wasn't assuming science is your field of expertise lol

Do you know what sarcasm is? Maybe you will argue that I wasn't using sarcasm... everything is plain as day in English. Pun intended :)

[Still-alive]

lol you're dense...

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded use scriptures dear :) to present proof from the Bible... give me even 4 scriptures

[goaded]

"Do you know what sarcasm is?"
I'm English. Of course I don't.

[Still-alive]

yet you provided no proof from the scriptures about how a 'day means more than a day' so i guess you can just ignore things you find inconvenient or you can't answer adequately huh?

[LovingLoverReturned]

4 scriptures of where it contradicts science... beside the discussion on 1 day and 6 days

[Still-alive]

Provide the chapter and verse por favor

[LovingLoverReturned]

I did provide proof. You just skipped over it conveniently. I'm finished talking to you anyway.

You haven't provided a single ounce of proof still alive... you are just trying ti fan flames. You also trt try argue that your reason for not providing proof is that I didn't lol... that is not a good argument

[Still-alive]

nice projection. the only one not providing proof here is you.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Nice projections... the only one not providing proof here is you @Still-alive

[goaded]

4 scriptures that say what? They contradict themselves, let alone science.

"Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth." (which never happened). "When Noah was 500 years old, he had his first of three sons".

"His son Shem started the family line which led to Abraham, which is where we get the term “Semite”(descendants of Shem)."

Wait a minute, most anti-Semites are against themselves. Classic!

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded does science say that the earth CAN NOT be flooded? Yes or No?

Does science say that ancient humans could not have sperm production at an old age? Yes or no?

[LovingLoverReturned]

The answers I know are No.
If yours are yes then... that's your problem.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Lol funny there are scientific theories that say the earth was full of water at one point

[Still-alive]

Here's why you are so desperate for a 'day' to not mean a literal 'day'

"In our day, the doctrine of six-day creation has been denied by Christians who hold to theistic evolution. Their denial is based not on exegetical considerations, but on a desire to reconcile Scripture with the theory of evolution.12 To accomplish their compromise between the Bible and modern science and its reading of the geological record, they claim that the "days" of Genesis 1-2 are not literal days but really "geological ages." Their attempt to reconcile Scripture with the theory of evolution is a dangerous attack on the Faith and the integrity of Scripture."

chalcedon.edu/.../the-meaning-of-day-in-genesis-1-2

See it attacks your faith and you can't have anything attacking your faith so you have to back-peddle and make things up to justify your faith...

Up until evolution days a day literally meant a Day to most people christians and non christians alike... after it was discovered that 'hey actually the earth is way wayyyyy older than what the bible claims' thats whan YOU and other... mainly creationists' come out of the woods to tell us that 'oh a day doesn't actually mean a day it means 'epochs' of geological time' ohhh ok...

except no. you just made that up... just made it all up lol. because you can't accept that just maybe.. that creation story is fibbing a tad... and maybe you are confronted with unacceptable truths. and rather than deal with it honestly you just lie/bullshit to yourself.

[goaded]

"does science say that the earth CAN NOT be flooded? Yes or No? "
Yes. And nobody really believes people ever lived to 777, especially when few people lived to 77.

[LovingLoverReturned]

I already told you why i conclude that day is ysed as an epoch in references to creation of earth... . 1 days was used interchangeably with 6 days.

Are you angry? Come again.

[Still-alive]

provide the chapter and verse where that is said...

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goadedsciemce ABC is the source of earth being underwater... showing it is POSSIBLE...

Where is your source that the earth cam Not be flooded?

[LovingLoverReturned]

Nevertheless @goaded it seems science ideas contradict each other :D

[goaded]

Why do you keep talking to yourself. Make an argument, then wait for the response, don't anticipate one that isn't coming!

"Old age" is 77, not 777.

"Lol funny there are scientific theories that say the earth was full of water at one point"
I'm not sure that was ever the case, but if so it was millions or billions of years before humans were around.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Im proud of you still alive... you are going to open your Bible and read what it actually says.
'
1) Genesis 2: 4
2) Genesis 1:1
3) 2 Peter 3: 8

[goaded]

@The_Shadow_Dweller You had crap teachers. :)

[Still-alive]

@goaded notice how she doesn't provide the chapter and verse where it says 'a day means an epoch?'

interesting huh?

[goaded]

It would only be something in the bible, which isn't proof of anything that it's something in the bible.

[LovingLoverReturned]

biblehub. com https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-4.htm KJV is the most used but you can look at various bible versions

[goaded]

@LovingLoverReturned Your idea was literally in the comic I posted.

[LovingLoverReturned]

You are impatient @Still-alive...

[goaded]

*It would only be something in the bible, which isn't proof of anything other than it's something in the bible.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded are you insulting the dweller now @goaded making assumptions about him. Youa re just looking for somebody to attack

[Still-alive]

oh i've opened the bible many amnyyyy times before. i used to be a devout catholic.

yeah thats right and this is how i know you are just bullshitting :)

anyways thanks for providing actual chapters and verses. lets look

Genesis 2:4
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

Says nothing about a day = epoch of time...

Genesis 1:1
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Says nothing about a day = epoch of time...

2 Peter 3: 8

“But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day”

Ah here we go!! something relevant... and i knew you'd use this eventually.

here's what this quote actually means: The problem is that God is not attempting to redefine our words in 2 Peter 3:8. Peter does not say that one day is a thousand years; he says that one day is like a thousand years. In other words, he is using figurative language to make his point. The point is not that we should interpret the word day as “a thousand years” everywhere we find it in Scripture; rather, the point is that the passing of time has no bearing on God’s faithfulness to His promises. He is “the same yesterday and today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). Besides, the day-age theory requires much more than 6,000 years in the creation “week.”

You religious folk are all about 'context' and yet you conveniently leave out the relevant context for that quote... pretty funny.

nice try!

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded Were you there before you were born? No. You ""think"" the earth couldn't be flooded... but there is no proof that it couldn't;t be... whether humans are on earth or not is related to HOW scientists say it is possible for the earth to be covered.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@Still-alive nice try being dishonest

English Standard Version
These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

Berean Study Bible
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.

King James Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

New King James Version
This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

[LovingLoverReturned]

Tanakh 1977 says day

NASB 1995
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

NASB 1977
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

Amplified Bible
This is the history of [the origin of] the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [that is, days of creation] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens—

and various ones

[LovingLoverReturned]

@Still-alive aww I used to be an RC toooooooooooooo

[LovingLoverReturned]

KJV is from the 1600s by the way :)

[Still-alive]

ah i see so you just choose which translation of the bible is most convenient to you right?

But sure lets use the first translation:
"These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."

Generations of heavens refers to the family line that god just created... the family line of Abraham, noah etc.

That second part of the sentence however needs a bit more explaining: " in Genesis 2:4 we have a specialized use of the word yôm. The actual construction is beyôm, meaning “in (the) day (of),” or simply “when” (as it is correctly translated in the New International Version). The word “day” does not have its normal referent here; rather, it is part of an idiomatic construction. it is therefore not correct to use Genesis 2:4 in the argument about the meaning of yôm in Genesis 1."

creationbc.org/.../

So the original hebrew word 'day' was translated from is used in a metaphoric way rather than a literal way. it does not mean' epochs' of time like you're hoping it does though. read that link to understand. sorryyyyy

[LovingLoverReturned]

silence of the goats...

... silence of the lambs...
or more accurately... silence of the humans

[Still-alive]

also i noticed you have no rebuttal to what i said about the other bible quotes... nice.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded... @Still-alive you and your partner were talking to me at the same time.. I was replying to still alive... like if you didn't know... 2 men, 1 woman... do you get it now? I wasn't replying to myself

[LovingLoverReturned]

KJV is the commonly used Bible, Further majority of translations use "day" ... I am going with the majority.

So you claim (without scholarly source) that the word day isn't used in normal referent. So which referent is it used in? Neverthless ""one day"" ... ""the day"" still show that the Bible doesn't necessarily refer to 24 hour days fo creations when compared to other bible verses saying 6 days.

Further feel free to accept unsesible theories... that is your choice... i accepted the explanation that made sense, that they were epochs.

[Still-alive]

Nice... well most people interpret the word 'day' in genesis to mean '24 hour day cycle.' and i showed that one reference of the word day was a metaphorical one in that specific bible quote. and it was literal in the previous verses.

"i accepted the explanation that made sense, that they were epochs."

So if anyone can interpret whatever we feel it means why go to a church at all? why bother with all that pageantry and such? unless they all have common understandings as to what the scripture means right?

Further going along with your 'we can interpret the bible however we feel' why do hardcore religious conservatives seem hellbent on forcing their interpretation of it onto everyone else? i guess they also all have a common understanding as to what the scriptures mean too...

Nah... you're using what makes sense to you because its inconvenient if it means what it literally means in the text.

[LovingLoverReturned]

second peter 3: 8... let's leave out your assumptions and stick to the actual scripture...

My point was never that this scripture is an epoch... infact I never said this scripture was in relation to the specific time of creation... I shared it because it supports the other scriptures : showing there is possiblibility for God to refer to 1000 years as a day and that God has no limited time to live so he could have most definitely taken this amount of time to cret the earth.

I guess you didn't know about genesis 2:4 because you asked me about it... now you pull up something quick that you probably didn't even read yourself in

3) do people have any rights at all to say whether a university graduate scientist is a quack?
Well so do they have rights to say translations are not widely accepted by schools of thought or scholars...

[LovingLoverReturned]

It's simple... Everything can't all be true... Just like all science theories can't be true at the same time

And you are bringing up an irrelevant point. Who is forcing who here?

[Still-alive]

"second peter 3: 8... let's leave out your assumptions and stick to the actual scripture...

My point was never that this scripture is an epoch... infact I never said this scripture was in relation to the specific time of creation... I shared it because it supports the other scriptures : showing there is possiblibility for God to refer to 1000 years as a day and that God has no limited time to live so he could have most definitely taken this amount of time to cret the earth.

I guess you didn't know about genesis 2:4 because you asked me about it... now you pull up something quick that you probably didn't even read yourself in "

oh no i knew about it definitely. i didn't think you were so dense as to think it actually supports your idea that a day=6days. i showed that the word 'day' was derived from that hebrew word and in which it was a metaphorical usage of that word and not a literal one. you seem to cannot understand this concept somehow...

"let's leave out your assumptions and stick to the actual scripture..."

my 'assumption' is providing and analyzing the CONTEXT of that quote... you are always abotu context right? until it inconveniences you right?

"showing there is possiblibility for God to refer to 1000 years as a day and that God has no limited time to live so he could have most definitely taken this amount of time to cret the earth."

im just gonna restate what i said here: "The point is not that we should interpret the word day as “a thousand years” everywhere we find it in Scripture; rather, the point is that the passing of time has no bearing on God’s faithfulness to His promises. He is “the same yesterday and today and forever”

The thousand years = figurative language, not literal, and within its context its demonstrating that god is always the same god. has nothing on how long a day is to God...

anyways

[Still-alive]

"Just like all science theories can't be true at the same time"

but they can be tested and observed and predicted and basically the scientific method... the stuff in the bible is just... 'whatever i feel like it means to me'

my last point was that Conservatives if they get there way WILL force their biblical interpretations on all of us in the states. so therefore what ones personal interpretation is irrelevant in the face of that since they all seem to share a similar interpretation.

[goaded]

"are you insulting the dweller now" Who's the dweller? Obviously not, I'm not insulting anyone, just disagreeing with you.

"Were you there before you were born?"
No. Were you there when John Lennon was killed?

"No. You ""think"" the earth couldn't be flooded"
No, I know that there is no evidence that the Earth was flooded.

[LovingLoverReturned]

seeming is not factual.

The stuff in the Bible is not related to feelings. It is related to linguistics and language studies. Nice try though :) Also humans can do the same with science if they wanted to... nobody is stopping a scientist from making conclusions based in feelings, they do it all the time... and this just goes back to what I said in the beginning about atheists trusting scientists without doing experiments themselves...

Neverthless... I already showed what science is countless times. Scientific America admitted that ""if you think science is right, you are wrong."" science is a means for POSSIBLE explanations of things, scientific explanations have been updated over the years, just showing what scientific America stated www.scientificamerican.com/.../\
s

nice explanation of what science is LOL , those pushing science don't even know what science is undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_04

[Still-alive]

" nobody is stopping a scientist from making conclusions based in feelings, they do it all the time... and this just goes back to what I said in the beginning about atheists trusting scientists without doing experiments themselves..."

it's based on observations and testing and retesting... not feelings. anyone who makes conclusions about science based on feelings are called 'pseudoscience' and should be shunned from all scientific discourse.

"and this just goes back to what I said in the beginning about atheists trusting scientists without doing experiments themselves..."

aah who's stereotyping now? not the one making baseless assumptions about atheists right? gimem a break lmao

"science is a means for POSSIBLE explanations of things, scientific explanations have been updated over the years, just showing what scientific America stated"

correct... no one disputes this... you just made up this strawman in your mind.

[goaded]

Of course you're going to ignore the "[Science] can’t supply absolute truths about the world, but it brings us steadily closer" part. Religion does the opposite. It pretends to supply absolute truths, but it doesn't. Saying "Science is wrong" is worse than saying it's right.

"nobody is stopping a scientist from making conclusions based in feelings"
One scientist, perhaps, but the others will show if they're wrong.

[LovingLoverReturned]

You just wrote a whole long paragraph about something I didn't say. I started off by saying the scripture in peter is not referring to the creative days... but nevertheless it shows that the things mentioned about the creative days is POSSIBLE according to the Bible

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded religion is not about science dearie, so your point is not relevant here...

[Still-alive]

which was a figurative/metaphorical usage of that word. not a literal one.

you are really thickheaded aren't ya? ;)

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded i presented multiple times that religion is not about science... it barely touches on it... i just discussed long with @Still-alive about one single sentence lol on days

[goaded]

So, how do you decide if religion is true? Dearie?

[Still-alive]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6g69VZdTXM

here ya go. this guy explains what a day means very clearly for you. enjoy

[LovingLoverReturned]

That's exactly what I said... day was metaphoric in a sense... and not 24 hours... So who is the thick headed one?

I love how you say I'm disrespectful for disagreeing with you... but you are respectful by calling me thick-headed and saying I am bullshitting.

[Still-alive]

lol im only following by your example dear. i could have kept this more respectful but you kept tossing names out at me an goaded like no ones business ;)

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded
:) studying historical accounts, using the information I learn and observing the results, then I decide if to trust.
So what was the last experiment you conducted?

[Still-alive]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdWlWVLHXd4

here ya go. another good explanation for why people like you are so desperate for a 'day' to mean' epochs of time' ;)

[LovingLoverReturned]

have a nice day thereforegodexists.com/.../

[Still-alive]

lol proves nothing

[LovingLoverReturned]

you are lying on me dear @Still-alive

[Still-alive]

You are thickheaded dear @LovingLoverReturned

learn how to argue properly next time with actual logic.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@still alive that video is not answering the question ""Why people like me want Day to be non literal"... I already showed you why it is non-literal... not why I WANT it to be... but why it is... nobody can tell me why I want something or not.

[Still-alive]

and your response was bogus :)

[LovingLoverReturned]

@Still-alive indeed the videos you send prove nothing except that this man disagrees with some people

[Still-alive]

that last video shows how the context within the bible itself shows how a day or 'yom' means a typical 24 hour day... that is proof yes. :) you just don't like it so you ignore it.

[LovingLoverReturned]

the link i sent shows how the context within the bible itself means days isn't necessarily 24 hours

[goaded]

" studying historical accounts, using the information I learn and observing the results, then I decide if to trust.
So what was the last experiment you conducted? "

I dropped a crisp a second ago. It fell according to both Newton's and Einstein's theories predicted (being at a tiny fraction of the speed of light). By the way, what you said implies you're not interested in any scientific experiments, just historical accounts you decide to trust, or not.

Why did you pretend you thought @Still-alive said religion doesn't exist?

[Still-alive]

welp ill let you and goaded continue. i think i've shown how

1. thickheaded and slippery you are with your replies and

2. how desperate you are for religion to be true you'd find whatever you can to help you prove it to be true even to the point of making things up.

my work is done

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded you keep ignoring what i say, the bible and other books barely have science ,

what am I to test using science? If Rahab was a prostitute?

I do scientific research but there is barely any to do... archaeology is a science but not the one you have in mind... I can however test the advice given by religion and see if it works.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded You want to know if someone is a doctor, you see where they studied, (let's forget the fact whether he forged the certificate or not)... are you also going to confirm if he really had wife and children, if in high school he one a basketball match... in order to believe that he is a doctor?

[goaded]

No, I don't keep ignoring what you say. I keep pointing out that you're misrepresenting what other people say. Starting with your first two sentences on this opinion: " Religion is False, meaning? It doesn't exist?". Nobody ever said religion doesn't exist.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded I accept that there is a level of trust needed for both the religion of science and the religion of spirituality.

Yeah ensure to check the definition of religion (there are different ones) before you attack me.

[goaded]

If you want my trust (religious or not), start by not lying. After that it's just a matter of pointing out the lies.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded I already responded to your statemnt about that... I asked a question.. I didn't misrepresent... I asked still alive to clarlify what he was sharing...

[Still-alive]

@goaded she loves lying it seems...

[LovingLoverReturned]

@Still-alive is a liar calling me a liar.

[goaded]

You asked a question pretending that "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." could possibly mean religion doesn't exist.

None of "true", "false", or "useful" could be applied to something that doesn't exist.

[Still-alive]

projection

[LovingLoverReturned]

projection from you onto me

[Still-alive]

nope.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded So what does it mean when atheists say God is false :) ?

[Still-alive]

I don't say god is false. i say 'i don't see the evidence for a god, therefore i don't believe in one.'

big difference... talk about stereotyping though...

[LovingLoverReturned]

I never said that you said God is false.

I am asking Goaded a question. :)

[goaded]

You didn't even say that, you said religion is false.

It means, @LovingLoverReturned that there is no evidence for a god, and lots of evidence of people pretending to know one to gain advantage (which is about the first thing I said).

[LovingLoverReturned]

goaed is generalizing and i am asking a generalized question.

[goaded]

Nope, you're misrepresenting people and pretending that you didn't.

[LovingLoverReturned]

@-what- do atheists mean when they say God is false?

[LovingLoverReturned]

@goaded they mean different things... usually that he doesn't exist... I never stated, once again... I asked still-alive to clarify... you are assuming a lot and things I mean... but I asked for clarification.

[Still-alive]

Did you know im an atheist? i was one of the atheists you were referring to earlier right? or did you mean @the_shadow_dweller?

Nah you meant me c'mon. and you just said "So what does it mean when atheists say God is false?"

If somehow you aren't including me and goaded in that flippantly dumb generalization... then apologies but its till a dumb stereotypical generalization and it makes you look like a moron :)

[LovingLoverReturned]

You look like a morn when you say

"I'm leaving now. I'll let goaded handle it"" yet you are still here.

Using your time on someone you think is a moron.

[LovingLoverReturned]

you like a moron when you say you are leaving yet still here talking to someone you think I a moron for hours

[Still-alive]

haha not even addressing anything i said. typical.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Very smart talking for hours to someone you think is a moron (I'm using sarcasm by the way)

[goaded]

I'm going to wait 10 minutes and then answer whatever's here. OK?

[LovingLoverReturned]

I'm not addressing your assumptions. Because I'm smart enough to know I can't teach an incompetent person anything when they don't want to learn.

[Still-alive]

I didn't say you were a moron... i said generalizing atheists like you just did makes you look like one. there is a difference there miss :)

[LovingLoverReturned]

Do you know how I discovered this about you? From to you earlier. And I concluded it would be stupid to continue trying to talk to you.

[LovingLoverReturned]

to you about anything related to science

[LovingLoverReturned]

or to religion

[Still-alive]

lol awesome. so just proves what said eariler you ignore things when its inconvenient to your narrative you're pusshing here.

i think you just saw this quote i made here--which by the way i was presenting in good faith and if anyone disagreed with it it was perfectly acceptable-- and got offended by it and started goading me into arguing with me which is why you kept tagging me over and over again lol. well you got my attention sweet heart. here i am and i pulverized your dumb 'logic'

[LovingLoverReturned]

Do I know you were an atheist? Yes. I saw you admit it on gag... unless you were lying...

You seem to be good at that. I was never talking to you in the first place, you started talking to me... i barely mentioned you... you wanted to talk to me.

[Still-alive]

nope nope. you tagged me several times im your conversation with you and goaded earlier... you don't tag someone unless you want their attention. :)

[LovingLoverReturned]

that's an assumption not a fact... whether you tag someone

Goaded also tagged you Wash he asking you any questions? No.

[Still-alive]

not only did you tag me you also directly referred to me as part of the 'atheists in this thread'

are you now denying this? slippery person you?

[LovingLoverReturned]

How did I deny referring to you as an atheist? I just told you I know you are an atheists due to your own addition.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Referring to someone is not the same as talking to them

[LovingLoverReturned]

you can't seem to understand that

[Still-alive]

ok good. so you referring to me and tagging means you pretty much want my attention. if you didn't you wouldn't have referred to or tagged me.

I was just gonna remain neutral but you kept goading me into arguing with you...

[LovingLoverReturned]

Nope. Goaded was asking me a question about you...

[Still-alive]

" Referring to someone is not the same as talking to them"

right so you just wanna talk about me without allowing me to defend myself huh? nice one. it doesn't work like that though.

[Still-alive]

" Nope. Goaded was asking me a question about you..."

and you tagged me. did you not?

[Wsx2wsx2ws]

Religion can be false and false religion has been used by rulers to get people to kill in the name of god so they are not accountable. Not just governmental rulers but anyone who wants to rule over you. The 3rd chapter of Genesis makes this obvious.

It takes wisdom to seek, see, select and sacrifice for truth at all cost. Till one seeks it he will never find it. So we have a lot more fools than wise.

[Twalli]

Napoleon saw it in a similar way. He called religion useful to keep the commoners happy. They were much easier to control when they believed they'd be rewarded in the afterlife

[Ghostluck]

It may or may not be "common" but I can say it sure doesn't feel like it any more. It seems to me that more people are atheist now than there are people who are religious. I hold no religions, but I do believe on God and I am on the fence about Jesus. I take the bible with a grain of salt, but I will say that most of the bible (aside from what it say about gays) is a good moral teaching. So I have to qualms with the bible in general, even though I don't believe 3/4 of it was any truth. I think there are *some* stories in the bible that might have actually happened, but the majority of it is simply a guide more than historical fact.

So, whatever that makes me, I have no idea. I believe in an all powerful and knowing creator of all things in the living universe and this being wants us to be good and decent people. Outside of that, I don't have any religion. Again, whatever that makes me.

[Still-alive]

“It seems to me that more people are atheist now than there are people who are religious. “

Its just you.

“There are an estimated 2.2 billion Christians in the world, which makes Christianity the largest religion on the planet.”

And thats just christians. Counting other faiths puts that number even higher. A d thats put of about 7 billion people overall on our planet.

[Still-alive]

www.worldatlas.com/.../...ns-around-the-world.html

[Ghostluck]

Fair enough. :)

[Ghostluck]

@Still-alive Not sure why that did not quote you the first time, but... as to what you are saying, my reply is, "Fair enough." :)

[Unfortunateguy27]

Only atheists and satanists regard that as true. It’s hard to believe in a God when you cannot see HIM. Only those with faith and believe in the Holy Trinity have truly experienced God as I have myself on several occasions. Thank you Jesus. Thank you Heavenly Father, ELOHIM.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

That is exactly what is happening in India. Religion is being used by people in power to divide the people and get the votes.
Religion based riots, discrimination are rampant in India now.

[goaded]

I don't know about the land of the shadow, but it's also being used in America.

The Second Amendment is a God-given right! Personhood starts at conception!

[menina]

I'm undecided. I mean, I'm not religious but I can't say that religion is false. However there are cases of rulers who used religion to control and to abuse their people.

[Sun_Kim-Ai]

I'm a ruler so to say, and I feel the power and influence of the religious caste in my territory to be an interference at best, and a threat at worst.

[goaded]

I've always wondered why no religion ever said "test your assumptions".

It was where the ancient Greeks went wrong. We could probably have avoided the dark ages.

[lottiebannotie]

Disagree partly agree but only because of humans own weaknesses

[lottiebannotie]

When you say religion seems to me you have no problem with insulting Christians would you be so woke with Muslims? Genuine question

[Still-alive]

I regard all religion as false...

[lottiebannotie]

So why do you abuse Jesus? Pretty sure you wouldn't dare say the same about Mohamed why is that?

[Still-alive]

where am i abusing anyone? im presenting a quote and asking if people agree or not.

[lottiebannotie]

I don't have time to go through every question and argument you have ever made just know it's been noted

[Still-alive]

lol ok... I am an atheist if thats what you mean?

Look we tend to scrutinize Christianity more often because... i don't know if you realize this but we live in a predominantly christian world so yeah they will receive more criticism more often then Muslims will since Christianity surrounds us where i live more. I have gotten into some religious debates with at least one muslim user on here in a respectful way.

[lottiebannotie]

It should always be in a respectful way you wouldn't dare make fun of Islamic beliefs the way you do Christianity I'm also a atheist but I don't abuse my friends and family

[Still-alive]

Where's the abuse? because i have the George Carlin clip up there? he makes many many salient points. and if you think he's disrespectful then... oh well i guess?

The few Christians im friends with on here i am very respectful towards.

[lottiebannotie]

Mock Mohamed the way you do Jesus? No didn't think so

[Still-alive]

Where am i mocking jesus? point to it.

[lottiebannotie]

So you think mocking your peers beliefs is fine but if I correctly call Mohammad you have a problem?

[Still-alive]

what? i disagree with your framing... where am i mocking anyone here? have you secretly been hating me this whole time or something? over some false idea you have about me in your head?

[lottiebannotie]

As if 😅 inflated self importance much 😅

[Still-alive]

Welp im done with this conversation. go hate on someone else under false pretenses. i got no time for this

[lottiebannotie]

Typically woke response don't handle criticism well 😅

[Still-alive]

if its false... and it is false.

[lottiebannotie]

Yawn

[Still-alive]

The only mocking anyone's doing here is you by the way... so long 'friend'

[lottiebannotie]

Truth hurts I guess

[Still-alive]

you want to have an actual real adult conversation about religion someday let me know.

[lottiebannotie]

What's the point? You can't do it here

[Still-alive]

Do you do this with everyone you disagree with? even your friends?

[lottiebannotie]

I call out bs wherever I see it by whomever

[lottiebannotie]

You want to talk about religion slavery take your pick anytime but go to school first I deal in facts not fantasy

[Still-alive]

Ok where's the bs that i posted? call it out. can you? you seem to not be able to do that earlier... instead choosing to mock me... its typical when someone thinks they 'got me' but really don't...

[Still-alive]

Would it make you happier if i posted that old south park clip making fun of mohammed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUvU80QNZXI

well its not on youtube but here's the news story.

[snackthatsmilesback]

Seems to be a little bit of both recently, hardly all one sided like that.

[Jdjrkekrrkrkkrkr]

Religion was made to hold people back from turning their thoughts into actions, the rulers used it to their advantage to keep people in order

[Dinosaursandanime65]

Religions are the Chinese knockoff equivalent of Christianity

[Slim57]

That's very interesting is all my thoughts about it really

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Strongly agree

[OddBeMe]

Yeppers