What do you think about this statement from Greek Philosopher Epicurus on religion?

[madhatters4]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Greek philosopher Epicurus lived about 2100 years ago and is considered one the great thinkers of our world. His influence is profound and was particularly influential during the rise of democracy in the Western world. anyway... what are you thoughts on his statement above?

[CountryWanderer]

It's a thorny problem. How can a God who is all benevolent, all powerful, and all knowing create a world where evil exists?

I think part of it is God is so beyond what we can fathom that we can't, at least as of now in this life, grasp it.

Another clue is this in Genesis 8: "The Lord... ... said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done."

Through that verse we glimpse that part of God's goodness is mercy. He tolerates evil because to not tolerate it would be to end all human life forever. But he loves us too much not to do that.

[strateguy632]

exactly he does not instantly kill evildoer. he has mercy to give a chance to change. and allowed choice even for evil.

[madhatters4]

@strateguy632 but it's not just about the evildoer right? there is often a victim who suffers at the hands of evil

[CountryWanderer]

Which is why there still is judgement. God will have vengeance

[Levin]

Each person has free will. And with their free will they choose to do evil. Don't blame God. We all have a choice. And I don't even mean evil in the sense of something overtly wrong. But we all throw away our lives, make weak and cowardly choices, I mean come on. The least we could do is take some responsibility. The world is a shit hole. And that's God's fault? Or our own for our collective moral weakness?

And religion is a pile of shite? Well, no shit. The worst thing about it is that religious people want to kill each other and don't actually act in a religious way.

[Levin]

I know this thread is a bit old, but here is an excellent short explanation of the spiritual concept of good and evil and free will.

If it were impossible for man to sink into the abyss of evil, he would not have been able to attain what on the one hand we call love and on the other freedom; since to the occultist freedom is inseparably connected with the idea of love. It would be impossible for man to develop either love or freedom without the possibility of sailing down into the abyss. A man unable, of his own free decision, to choose good or evil, would be a being who would only be led on a leading-string to a good which must be attained of necessity and who had no power to choose the good of his own fully purified will, by the love which springs from freedom. (cont)
rudolfsteinerquotes.wordpress.com/.../

[jennifer_bloom]

This is a common issue with religious people. God does not want you to be attached to any thing on earth to the point that it makes you angry at God or hate your fellow human beings. I know religious people who become too attached to their praise and honour and end up bickering with others and ruining their reputations as good people. I've seen religious people become too emotionally attached to their money and end up being vilified and hated by those they tried to profit from.

[jshm2]

Epicurus was great in his short time, but not the brightest in matters of non-philosophy.

That quote of his is largely debunked, as modern philosophy rejects most of the limited understandings of his time.

For example, God doesn't "need" to prevent anything, nothing is going to outlive him and all comes back to him. Rather, it's the mortal fear which makes the supplication. Also "evil" is subjective. Or being able to "help", but not, can be "tough love" or an "object lesson".

[WindAtMyBack]

It's all pretty meaningless. That's the thing about logical thinking. Your logic can be flawless but you can still be wrong.

You can say, "If Johnny is ten feet tall, he would have to duck to walk through an eight foot door." The logic is correct, but that does not mean Johnny has to duck to go through the door. It's based on the assumption that Johnny is ten feet tall.

Epicurus presumes that evil exists, that he knows what evil is, and his definition of evil is the same as a god. He has not shown any of those things. So it's meaningless.

[genericname85]

apologetics hate this argument, cause they can't defeat it XD the best they can do is say "hurr durr, human logic just can't fathom gods reasons".

[strateguy632]

actually @Levin here defeated it very well and clearly.

[genericname85]

@strateguy632 yeah apologetics like to claim they defeated an argument when they never did, just like they claim there is a god when there never was. that's what faith is about. asserting ideas that aren't facts as if they were facts.

[genericname85]

@strateguy632 but if you remember how he did it you can try. i'd be curious.

[PeteA380]

Evil means cannibalism. It gets introduced via normalising bigamy (coitus with mote than one opposite gender person during lifetime).
You can google which hugely populous and continuously overpopukating country is cannibalist (they advance it as Hinduism even when they claim to be muslim😠)

[Anonymous]

I think when Epicurus creates a Universe and then breathes life into it then he can talk. Till then he's just an arrogant homosapien with an opinion.