Why does everything Christians believe have to be in the Bible?

[BCRanger10]

Protestants and Evangelicals often accuse Catholics of "not following the Bible". To which I ask, where is it clearly and explicitly stated - or even just implied - that everything Christians believe, say, and do must be clearly and explicitly stated in the Bible? So far as I can tell, it's not.

It's for this reason, among others, that the Church, in addition to the Bible, also appeals to tradition and its teaching authority.

[Anonymous]

Sigh.

Catholics... 😒

It really comes down to one simple question:

Do you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible as the sole and supreme authority of doctrine (sola scriptura ) or do you ascribe to the belief of papal infallibility?

You see... it’s either the Bible

... or the Pope.

Who has the ultimate and final say?

Frankly I’d rather trust in scripture and God’s Holy Word than some old man in a pointy hat seated on a throne... ELECTED by a group of other old men in robes. The whole thing reeks to high heaven of politics.

But hey, if you need a middle man between you and God feel free to keep on going to mass and buying into that whole weird hierarchy of priests, monks, friars, cardinals, bishops, and archbishops. Do you all have a Human Resources department?

At least you’re Christians.

I could go on about the numerous issues Protestants take with Catholics, but truth be told I like your traditions. There is a sacredness to Catholic sacraments that is lacking among Protestants.

But the veneration of saints, all the good and pomp and thrones and robes and Italian loafers... it really makes a lot of Protestants kind of sick. It’s all just so... gawdy.

[worldscolide]

Most Christians don't follow the entire Bible anyway.. And no my friend this is not an insult of any kind.

During the council of Nicaea in 325 ad, they removed something like 66 books from the Bible. Known as the gnostic gospels. I've actually studied some of them..

[BCRanger10]

Do you know why those books were not included?

[worldscolide]

I can only guess. Some of the books were more um radical than the ones that are in it now.

They also modified Genesis. In the original Genesis god man and woman at the same time, Adam and lilith. Lilith for some reason did not want to be attached to Adam, so she was banished from the garden and eve was created from his rib.. In the versions you read, it's just Adam and Eve.

There was the gospel of Thomas which said, "the kingdom of God does not exist in a place of stone and tember, it exists inside of us and all around us, flip over a rock and I am there" my guess is that specifically would take power from the church because it effectively says the church is not needed.

Or the gospel of marry magdalene, was likely pulled because it showd that Jesus valued women in his ministries as much as men.

Or the gospel of judas, where Jesus tells him "you shall be cursed for generations" " you will come to rule them all" "you will exceed all of them for you will sacrifice the man that clothes me"

And so on.

[BCRanger10]

I'll recommend a book to you, if I may. It's called The Case for Jesus, and it was written by Dr. Brant Pitre. He's a seminary professor in Louisiana. In this book, he notes that these Gnostic so-called "gospels" were often written long after the events they claim to describe (in some cases, centuries later). As such, they have no way of verifying that they were written by the alleged authors.

For another, they often depict Jesus saying one thing, but then pulling a separate group aside and giving them contradictory or "secret" knowledge different than what He had just taught. He is not alone in these conclusions.

There are other issues at play, but those are likely the most significant.

[worldscolide]

I will give it a read.

[BCRanger10]

It's a good book. Thank you for a good discussion.

[worldscolide]

Welcome my friend

[Daniela1982]

Truth speaks louder than words. The Catholics do NOT follow the Bible in everything. There was a lot of shit done by Catholics that was certainly not Biblical, like murdering Indian children in their schools, the Inquisition, witch trials, etc. Oh what secrets the Vatican hides from the world. If people DID follow what the Bible outlines for their lives, they would not have the amount of problems they have and know how to deal with them instead of having wars and everyday rapes and murders. Here is what the Bible says vs. what the Catholics say.

[Miah04]

I'm Christian and believe 90% of the Bible was made up by kings to get us to follow their rules.

There is too much contradictions in the Bible. God can't think vanity is a sin, but demands to worship him and pay the church.

God can't send jesus down to pay for our since so he can forgive us, but be as wrathful as the bible makes him out to be.

If he is so wrathful. Why could we live a life of sin and but right before death, go I'm sorry forgive me god. And immediately forgiven

[Miah04]

Most of my belief of god comes from things i see and experience

[BCRanger10]

What do you know about, say, the history of the Bible?

[Miah04]

It's all around us. King james Bible is called that for a reason. It was rewritten to fit his beliefs.
a lot of the stories are based off other religions with spins on them.

And as for jesus. Everyone screams he is a made up character in the bible.

He is a real man. He is in ancient roman historical documents from before the bible exsisted, ancient Jewish as well.
His existence is not questioned by historians, his miracles are.
The Romans and the Jewish historians write about him as a trouble making liar, who brainwashed his believers.
He was also originally jewish, and during his life the jewish religion split into 2 sides.
He opened his own synagogue until he believed he was the son of god. Then he departed and began preaching Christianity. Which is what outraged the Jewish community.

[BCRanger10]

I'm talking about how the Bible came to be, not necessarily its contents. I mean the Early Church Fathers, the early councils of the Church, and Saint Jerome for starters.

[strateguy632]

every line, someone fooled you. "90% of the Bible was made up by kings to get us to follow their rules" that doesn't match the CONTENTS.
mostly stories 70% story not rules. 25% ceremony like books exodus leviticus. opposite of 90%. 2, "demands to worship him" didn't demand "praise me" like vanity so no contradiction. 3, wrath was different time before jesus. then called "law of death". no contradiction because different time. 4, finally, @miah04 god knows thoughts! if a guy plans that, to sin until old age, god knows.

[Miah04]

Is there a reason you keep trying to get my attention?
If you haven't noticed by now. I really am not at all interested in your opinions.

It's why i have ignored you.

Nothing you have yet said to me has sparked any interest, nor have I found you as someone i would like to spark any conversation with.

It's kinda now getting awkward that you continue to try and engage with someone who ignores you

[Daniela1982]

Doesn't sound like you are actually a Christian to me.

[mandyfire98]

It does get pretty awkward when everything has to be by the book because it's said in a book. If it's not in the book it doesn't matter. At some point when is the book itself being worshipped? It's also a book that has a whale swallow a man whole and he lives in his tummy. That's what is being taken 100 percent literal by some people. It's scary.

[BCRanger10]

I agree with the first half.

The second, not so much. The central mystery of Christianity is that of a man who claimed to be divine being beaten to within inches of his life, then being put to an incredibly painful and gruesome death (I'd recommend reading C. Truman Davis' description of the Crucifixion from a medical perspective), and not only that, but rising again from the dead. If that's the case, then a man being swallowed by a whale doesn't seem all that outlandish.

[mandyfire98]

You don't think that maybe that's just a parable?

[BCRanger10]

No, I don't. And here's why. For one thing, I have to stand by what I said about the Passion of Jesus.

For another, it's surprisingly not an isolated incident. There was a man just three years ago who was swallowed whole by a whale off Cape Cod and lived to tell the tale. Here’s a link to the news story (ironically, this is not the one I was looking for)...

www.capecodtimes.com/.../

There's that and the fact that humans have survived a host of other things that defy belief. Case in point, there was a Japanese man in World War II who survived BOTH atomic bomb blasts.

[mandyfire98]

Fair enough

[BCRanger10]

I get that it sounds totally crazy. Though correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember you saying on another thread somewhere that you were raised Catholic, so you're at least somewhat familiar with it.

[mandyfire98]

Yeah I get it. I understand why people believe. Not knocking it. The messages are great at the end of the day. So it's not bad.

[BCRanger10]

Thank you for a good discussion!

[mandyfire98]

Hey I'm always up for a great discussion

[Seinna]

Well, the Bible says that you cannot add or remove anything from it... and that's what Catholics do. Some catholic doctrines are even in direct opposition to the written word of God and anything that's not in the Bible is man made. You can believe whatever you want but ultimately your choice is this: do you want to follow God or man?

[BCRanger10]

"Well, the Bible says that you cannot add or remove anything from it"

Where?

[Seinna]

Deuteronomy 4:2

[BCRanger10]

Was God really talking about something that didn't exist yet?

[Seinna]

He's God, He knows the past, the present in the future. You're trying to catch Him out, prove that God is wrong somehow? I don't know if that even agrees with catholicism. Look, nobody forces you to be a Christian or even catholic, it's entirely your choice... and it's the narrow and difficult path. If your pride and arrogance is stronger than your desire to know and follow what the Lord actually wants you to then perhaps it's too narrow. I will pray that the Holy Spirit gives you understanding.

[Agape93]

This whole shit is hilarious. A lot of them say their beliefs are Bible based when most of them have never read the damn book cover to cover. Most don't know mosaic law expressly allowed for slavery, or to take virgin girls as war trophys. They think it's all God hates gays and Satan, and Jesus hippie time.

[BCRanger10]

As I said to someone else though, that's the whole point of this question to begin with.

[Joshydavid25]

"Most don't know mosaic law expressly allowed for slavery, or to take virgin girls as war trophys."

It was having enemy nations who surrendered as indentured servants, and they spared the virgin women or more "innocent" women from death, let them mourn for a time, and married them since marriage was the ultimate protection for women at that time..

[Agape93]

Yeah because they definitely won't enjoy the girls. Don't patronize me, I'm not a fucking idiot

[EmmaMary]

What a complete and utter load of fucking Bollox.

[strateguy632]

because only stuff in bible has basis and source and holiness.

additions are man made not holy. Christians don't fast ramadan because jesus never said to, and same can't obligate "sacraments" that jesus didn't say. they are as foreign as ramadan.

[genericname85]

you can not "follow the bible litterally" either way. cause there's a lot of contradictory statements made within it that makes it logically impossible to do so. and even the most die hard catholics won't follow the bible litterally. cause they're not holding slaves, or beating their wifes.

[BCRanger10]

"even the most die hard catholics won't follow the bible litterally. cause they're not holding slaves, or beating their wifes."

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

I've heard this criticism before. And to be completely honest, it makes less and less sense to me all the time (not that it ever did to begin with, but I digress). Either things like slavery and spousal abuse are objective positive goods commanded or condoned by God that the Catholic Church is being blatantly disobedient in rejecting or there's a bigger picture. Hence this very question.

[genericname85]

well i am saying that the bible condones things that are straight up illegal today. that's only a critique in so far as that we currently alreay are living objectively better lives than what would have been possible if we only had the bible to live by.

the main critique was actually that it's not possible to live after the bible litterally, cause it's contradictory.

[BCRanger10]

Well, that also goes back to something else I said in the original question, which is that the Catholic Church is also aided and guided by tradition and its teaching authority (called the Magisterium). The Catholic Church does not believe in "sola scriptura", or the idea that the Bible alone is THE rule of faith.

As for these other critiques? You'll want to consult Saint Jerome, who spent twenty... ish years working to translate the Bible into Latin. If anybody in history would have anything to say about that, it would certainly be him. Or Dr. Scott Hahn, who has been teaching biblical theology at the Franciscan University of Steubenville in Ohio for at least thirty years.

[genericname85]

on a very fundamental level. isn't the bible cosidered to be the written word of god? like i already find it problematic to say that because who can even verify that? it's just stuff that people wrote down. and the different authors of the bible did not even agree with one another.

and then also there's a bunch of books and verses stored in a vatican library that the public will never even know about. "someone" decided these books are not canon. so i think if you wanna make the argument that the bible is gods word to live by, that's a highly problematic statement that clashes with the reality of it pretty hard.

like if you decide to be a religious christian, i'd say loosely living by the script is the more logical decision. cause then you don't have to defend the devine creation of the bible, which is factually indefensible.

[BCRanger10]

In a sense, yes. The Church does teach that God is in fact the principal author of the Bible. However, the Church also says that God authors the books of the Bible by way of inspiration an addition to dictation. I THINK that's how they'd explain it (probably much more eloquently than I could).

And again, that's also where I'd say look at the early Church Fathers, the councils of the Church, Saint Jerome, and a handful of other Saints throughout Church history who knew the Bible from start to finish. Saint Anthony of Padua comes to mind. The early Church Fathers were much closer to the events, as well as the times, cultures, and languages in which the texts were written. Again, if there's anyone on earth who would have noticed something scandalous, it would have been them.

[genericname85]

well the church also said that you can just pay to be free of sin... remember Martin Luther? we should probably not trust what the churches say even if we decide to be religious.

[BCRanger10]

That's not what happened. As part of a fundraising effort to pay for needed renovations to the Sistine Chapel - no one works for free - the pope at the time (I forget who it was) said that monetary donations to this effort could reduce or altogether cancel a soul's time in Purgatory; we call these "indulgences", and that's not the same as being free of sin. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Church historian who thinks that this was a good idea. People misunderstand or they ignore. And then there's the simple matter of optics. Martin Luther did have complaints about this, but he had a lot of other issues as well. There are reasons why he was excommunicated.

At any rate, this in particular was at best a tactical error more than anything and can't by itself invalidate the Church's teaching authority.

[genericname85]

who cares about the semantics, if you can pay to avoid gods punishment. either way. better to stay in the real world. fiction has it's place but don't confuse it with reality.

[SoJust]

Christianity is not a book religion, it is not even a religion, Christianity is a way of life, the name given to people who follow the path of Jesus Christ is Christian, Christianity is based on teachings in the church, Christianity cannot be learned otherwise.

[DizzyDesii]

Im Christian and i don’t refer everything to the Bible. I’m sure it helps to come with receipts though

[Joshydavid25]

Well TBH the Bible is the foundation in which Christianity stands up.. It is the "Word of God".. It's basically the Blue print for how Christians should live like Christ.. Without it, we really don't have much to stand on..

[NamerOfStars]

Nothing quite like being told "your faith isn't Biblical" by people who go on to lecture you about the Rapture and the Antichrist, is there?

[supercutebutt]

Abortion isn't in the Bible but it is their #1 issue for some dumb reason. Religion is bullshit. :)

[BCRanger10]

But that's why I'm asking this question to begin with. The aforementioned Protestants and Evangelicals will have a harder time explaining, but well-informed and knowledgeable Catholics (among whom I'd consider myself) will shrug and move on.

[strateguy632]

but it is, who ever DISTINGUISHED between murder after birth to murder a month before? same baby that came out was in.

[supercutebutt]

@strateguy632 You wanted to murder Mike Pence over lies told by a sinner and he's been out of the womb for like 60 something years. Give me a break.

[strateguy632]

change the subject? just admit it is in bible.

[supercutebutt]

@strateguy632 It is not in the Bible.

[normalice]

There is much all religious people practice that is the opposite of what is described in their text.

[andreasderjuengere]

Agreed: it should be found there.
But long time ago, certain texts had been de-selected;
and further, several "churches" have varying Bibles.

[AngryCarl]

Maybe Christianity isn't the best religion for you. There are lots of others to choose from, or you could do like L Ron Hubbard and invent your own. If you can convince enough people of your bs you will get tax exempt status.

[EmmaMary]

This whole "bible" shite is complete and utter fucking Bollox.

[OtterMan68]

No.

How Christians should meet to have a church service is not. Wedding rings are not. Every hymn written is not in the Bible. Using a microphone is not...

[LiamJHayden]

I've met some like that. You are better off just smiling and walking away, because it is like speaking to a wall.

[Dargil]

Why does everything Islamists believe have to be in the Koran?

[DJB72]

Sweeping generalisation.

Like most it's wrong.

[soe11]

• Dogmatism is negative.
• I am humanist

[noohair]

The bible was not originally written in English, so there is room for error.

[strateguy632]

as if nobody knows greek?

[noohair]

@strateguy632 Originally Hebrew.

[laly520]

it has teachings n is a clear guide

[BCRanger10]

I didn't say otherwise.

[supercutebutt]

LOL. The Bible is a book of contradictions.

[laly520]

@supercutebutt ok? no one told u to believe in it

[_no_one_]

I just hate religion tbh