Why do people say they believe the Bible to be the 'Word of God'?

[Siri137]

They're equally valid as far as I'm concerned.

When it clearly is not. When Muslims say they believe the Quran to be "God's word", Christians deny it, but if you look at the situation objectively (like an atheist or agnostic would) they have just as much right to assert their holy book came from God. Why not? After all, it says as much. Just read it.

Okay, now this is what I want. Actual objective evidence that clearly demonstrates the Bible isn't like every other religious text on the planet, and truly IS unique. You know, like a passage that actually reveals knowledge the ancients of the time when the text was written couldn't possibly have known (like the existence of Antarctica, or the existence of the planet Neptune). That would help.

[DJB72]

The New Testament was written by eyewitnesses to the Resurrection - something no other religion, ancient or otherwise, can say. It wasn't written down hundreds of years later as was the case with the Qur'an after an illiterate claimed it was taught to him by angels.

The Bible as a whole consists of 66 books written by 36 individual scribes over a period of at least 2000 years who didn't have access to each other's writings the way we do today. Despite this, there are 63779 cross-references across the entire collection of writings.

There are at least 450 "Messianic" prophecies in the Old Testament, all of which are referenced in the four Gospel accounts and the Letters as having been fulfilled by Jesus.

For an idea of how likely that is, the odds of Jesus fulfilling just 8 of them is calculated to be 1x10¹⁶. That's roughly the odds of covering Texas with quarters two feet deep, just one being marked with an "X" and flying over in a helicopter and finding that one coin first time at random.

Here's just 8...

OT: The Messiah will be born in Bethlehem.
Micah 5:2
Written 700 B. C.

NT: John 7:42 – “For the Scriptures clearly state that the Messiah will be born of the royal line of David, in Bethlehem, the village where King David was born.”

Fulfilled 27 A. D.

OT: The Messiah will be born of a virgin.
Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6-7
Written 735 B. C.

NT: Matthew 1:20-23 –’The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and He will be called Immanuel (meaning, God is with us).’”

Fulfilled 30 A. D.

OT: The Messiah would be from the lineage of King David.
Jeremiah 23:5
Written 600 B. C.

NT: “Jesus … the son of David …”
Luke 3:23, 31
Fulfilled 30 A. D.

OT: The Messiah would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver.
Zechariah 11:13
Written 487 B. C.

NT: “They gave him thirty pieces of silver.”
Matthew 26:15
Fulfilled 30 A. D.

OT: The Messiah would have his hands and feet pierced.
Psalm 22:16
Written 1000 B. C.

NT: “They came to a place called The Skull. All three were crucified there-Jesus on the center cross, and the two criminals on either side.”
Luke 23:33
Fulfilled 30 A. D.

OT: People would cast lots for the Messiah’s clothing.
Psalm 22:18
Written 1000 B. C.

NT: “The soldiers … took his robe, but it was seamless, woven in one piece from the top. So they said, ‘Let’s not tear it but throw dice to see who gets it.’ ”
John 19:23-24
Fulfilled 30 A. D.

OT: The Messiah would appear riding on a donkey.
Zechariah 9:9
Written 500 B. C.

NT: “They brought the animals to him and threw their garments over the colt, and he sat on it.”
Matthew 21:7
Fulfilled 30 A, D.

OT: A messenger would be sent to herald the Messiah.
Malachi 3:1
Written 500 B. C.

NT: John told them, “I baptize with water, but right here in the crowd is someone you do not know.”
John 1:26
Fulfilled 27 A. D.

Bear in mind that the Gospel accounts, Acts, and the letters of Peter, John, Jude and James weren't written by scholars who'd studied the Old Testament, but by ordinary people. Fishermen. A doctor. Only Paul was raised studying in depth.

No other religious writing in any religion is as cohesive as the Bible. The supposed "contradictions" are usually a result of poor translation into modern languages and passages out of context.

[Siri137]

You claim:
"The New Testament was written by eyewitnesses to the Resurrection - something no other religion, ancient or otherwise, can say. It wasn't written down hundreds of years later as was the case with the Qur'an after an illiterate claimed it was taught to him by angels."
Those who composed the books of what we now call the New Testament made the claim that there had been a resurrection, but all we have is their word for it, and nothing else. Why should anyone believe them?
As for the Quran, no, it wasn't written hundreds of years after the time of Muhammad. It was written when he was still alive. Don't be so ignorant!

[Siri137]

You claim:
"There are at least 450 "Messianic" prophecies in the Old Testament, all of which are referenced in the four Gospel accounts and the Letters as having been fulfilled by Jesus.
For an idea of how likely that is, the odds of Jesus fulfilling just 8 of them is calculated to be 1x10¹⁶. That's roughly the odds of covering Texas with quarters two feet deep, just one being marked with an "X" and flying over in a helicopter and finding that one coin first time at random."

This is just plain wrong. There are NO messianic prophecies that the one who claimed to be the Messiah during the first century actually fulfilled. None, zero, zilch!

[Siri137]

Claim:
"NT: Matthew 1:20-23 –’The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and He will be called Immanuel (meaning, God is with us).’”"
That's actually a mistranslation of the Greek. The word that was mistranslated as 'virgin' actually meant 'young woman'. The entire belief that Christians have that their false god was "born of a virgin" stems from the inability of the original translator to correctly translate. And his name wasn't Immanuel, now was it?

[slatyb]

Nothing was written about Jesus imagined life during his supposed lifetime. This is beyond dispute. Also the Gospels are not consistent with each other.

[DJB72]

Ok...
I actually listed 8 of the prophesies about the Messiah from the Old Testament (OT) and where you can find the fulfillment in the New Testament (NT)

As to why the claims are believable, consider Watergate...

Under threat of a few years in a late 20th Century jail, a dozen people recanted their account and admitted they were lying. After a couple of weeks.

Now consider what the eyewitnesses to the Resurrection faced:
Paul was beheaded
Peter was crucified upsidedown
Stephen was stoned to death
James brother of John killed by sword on Herod's order
Philip was either beheaded or crucified in Greece
Bartholomew alongside Philip
Andrew was crucified
Simon the Zealot was sawn in two

In fact, the ONLY Apostle not murdered was John the Beloved who died in exile on Patmos, the Roman equivalent of Alcatraz.

In addition to the disciples there were around 500 witnesses that saw Christ after His Resurrection. The Romans tried to eradicate Christianity until Constantine converted, ending the majority persecution of the first 300 years.

[DJB72]

The quran was only written down for the first time after Muhammad died on the orders of Abu Bakr in around 632-634AD. Before that it was an Oral tradition

[DJB72]

"Virgin" in the Greek does indeed literally translate to "young woman".

Of course, Matthew was referencing a passage in Aramaic so it's a translation of a translation. In the Aramaic Isaiah wrote that Matthew quotes it literally means "virgin".

Emmanuel is a title, not a name. Like Prince William is Prince of Wales - that's not his name, it's his title.

[slatyb]

You have provided no evidence that the Gospels were written during the early first century. You can't because there is none. There are no contemporary records of Jesus life. He was unmentioned by Roman historians of the time. Very odd if he was causing unrest in Palestine.

[strateguy632]

very good, but you give your gold to someone who doesn't appreciate gold. just bias prejudice for sake of arguing n baiting.

[strateguy632]

@DJB72 my praise was to you.

[strateguy632]

to @siri137 content "virgin" i heard that propaganda from rabbis who try to hide their own traditions that it does meAn virgin in written traditions but only scholars catch their devious lie they not represented their own traditions.

[DJB72]

@slatyb Josephus the Jewish historian, Pliny the Roman historian both wrote during the first century and mention a teacher called Yeshua - the Aramaic of "Jesus" - whose followers were multiplying exponentially following his execution by Pontius Pilate and claims he had risen from a sealed tomb guarded by Roman soldiers.

Perhaps you're not as well read as you think?

And again, look how long it took to expose the lies around Watergate - and none of those guys faced crucifixion, being flayed alive, boiled in oil or fed alive to animals in Rome.

But I'm casting pearls before swine again...

[slatyb]

Josephus was born after Jesus death. Not an eyewitness.

[DJB72]

The historical existence of a Jewish man named Yeshua and referred to by his followers as the Messiah has been settled for centuries. It's been questioned in recent years as a result of the internet, where total fucktards can openly share their idiocracy concepts with impunity.

@slatyb that would be you

Your argument holds as much historical integrity as the "flat earth" theory I'm sure you already believe.

As a reliable source you are as much use as a waterproof teabag, a chocolate fireguard or a tissue paper condom.

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries. I fart in your general direction.

[RetroReviews]

Right on my brother! Giving you a hi five right now 🤚😎 love how you laid everything out like that that is beautiful

[RetroReviews]

Ooooh snap you just got roasted @slatyb 😅 I dig your tenacity @DJB72 maybe you got a little bit of of Elijah in you when he was having The showdown with the priest of baal when he told em they need to cry out louder or maybe baal is taking a nap lol

[DJB72]

I've been responding to these "arguments" almost 40 years. And I'm fairly sure the same Spirit lives in me that inspired Elijah 😂

Besides, I love the smell of a hog roast...

[RetroReviews]

Right on keep up the good fight brother

[DJB72]

Amen 😊

[RebelinSteel]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/4HB7zqP9QNo

It’s just as well they had not really thought about Science Fiction back then, the Bible and others could have really been a great read.
Read old n new testaments, it’s like not exactly a book of evidence.
For one moment if it was all true, all religions from then to now have been in a constant battle with open warfare at times. Crusades, Ottomans in Balkans, Catholics v Protestants etc.

All books supposedly push peace but those very same religions don’t bat an eye at massacring people.

[Siri137]

"Wait till Biggus Dickus hears about this!"

[Bricealan]

@Siri137 ... well, damn who is Biggus Dickus? Have you been peeking?

[RebelinSteel]

@Bricealan

https://youtu.be/kx_G2a2hL6U

[strateguy632]

to @rebelinsteel
pretty ignorant not to distinguish between who attacked and who was doing self defense.

[RebelinSteel]

@strateguy632 does it really matter, it’s hard to say who started things etc.

So thirty years war who was defending?

The Albigensian Crusade who was defending who was attacking?

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Protestants mostly spread that around that the bible is the literal words from the mouth of God.


When you put the text into historical context, a lot of the meanings that we’ve interpreted for the modern day change quite significantly. For example, the famous “Turn the other cheek” speech was not a call for the end of violence, but very much a call to arms against the Roman occupation. If a Roman soldier was seen beating a man who didn’t fight back the soldier was the one who got punished, but if a soldier is seen fighting someone who fights back, then the soldier is legally able to arrest them. It was a strategy to try and give power back to the people whose land had been annexed by the Roman Empire.


But as time has gone on and Christianity eventually gained a lot of power and influence in the Roman Empire to the point it became their official religion and the old pantheon was discarded. That influence has remained for generations, Rome was the christian capital for decades on decades. Christianity today is the most powerful religion politically in the west, with the most influence and most vocal political backers that push for religious representation. No longer can you read the text from the perspective of the underdog when they’re now the ones in power. The messages of kindness can still be there, and normal christians follow them fairly well, but as for the doctrine itself it was written by men, for men under an occupation of war. The old testament used to be exclusively an oral tradition until a Babylonian occupation of what was then Israel exiled the Jewish population from their lands and they realized their religious traditions would be lost if it wasn’t somehow preserved. The religion never had an origin story about the making of the world at the time either, and a lot of the book of Genesis was plagiarized from popular competing religions at the time (see the epic of Gilgamesh) and adapted into their religious worldview. The book was written by men who were afraid to lose what they had and wanted to make sure it was preserved. The book is not the direct speech of God penned to paper. If that was the case, no bible would ever be written in English.

[shoeboxcerealcard]

Because it teaches the Laws of God. The laws of Nature. It is the word of God. However, 99% of people misinterpret the Bible. The think it's about evil vs good and that heaven and hell are real.

[DrPepper12]

It is NOT the word of God but I'll play along. Which God?

[RetroReviews]

@DrPepper12 the God who knew you before he formed you in the womb, the God who spoke the universe into existence

[DrPepper12]

@RetroReviews oh! Me!! TY for clearing that up!

[strateguy632]

because not only does it say about itself it is from god, but even quran said it is good n light n from god.

this caused som ex-muslim to reject the claim "bible got corrupted" because if muhamed prophet he would know... and praised bible.

many ex muslim, for this leave islam to join Christian.

sadly they are oppressed n suppressed in some countries.

this makes you wonder how many would choose... to stay muslim if muslim countries obeyed the detail: " no compulsion in faith" in quran itself.

how many are just scared of extremists so pretend?

[RetroReviews]

Yeah that is maybe the biggest difference in the two religions Islam seems like it's fear driven where Christianity is love

[slatyb]

Because that were taught this as children and didn't much think about it. Everyone around them agreed or pretended to. Questioning the dogma was highly discouraged or punished. Most people don't think about it all that much, they go along to get along. The independent-minded people who do think about it tend to abandon religion.

[RetroReviews]

Why don't you read it and find out give it a chance. Start with the Gospel of John, the fourth book in the New testament but before you start reading tell Jesus you don't believe in him tell him if he's real to reveal himself to you then read the book of John

[Siri137]

Why are you just assuming I haven't read it. I have! That's why I can't accept it as being true.

[DrPepper12]

At least you don't block people like that pussy @strateguy632

[RetroReviews]

@DrPepper12 well I consider myself a soldier for Christ despite any kind of opposition or mockery I don't back down from a fight. Like David didn't back down from the Giant Goliath but he took him on and told him to his face he was going to take him down. But some Christians are timid and can't handle opposition. I don't like to burn Bridges either because you never know maybe you guys will come around or start asking questions if you start to see things and noticing. So thanks for the compliment LOL

[RetroReviews]

You have read the gospel of john?

[DrPepper12]

I've read the Torah, Bible and Quran several times for each

[Bricealan]

I being an atheist, have never understood that either, and I am one that has done a great deal of thought and study to hold that position and belief

[Siri137]

But of course the religious folk will just assume we haven't read any of it, because according to them if we had then we'd be Christian! :D

[DrPepper12]

It's a cobbled together, mistranslated, heavily edited, contradictory human book designed by committee.

To wit: Who was there with Jesus in the garden of Gestename when he was alone talking to dad? How odd that there is an entire recorded dialogue!

[BlackAndBlueBalls]

i'm not here to argue a point. I just wanted to mention how it's interesting that even during the times when Jesus was a living breathing person, the people demanded evidence just like you're doing. :D

[Siri137]

Well, yes...
Of course! That's the normal thing that a person with a brain would do.

[BlackAndBlueBalls]

The "word of God" isn't here to convince you of anything or prove anything to you. It's here to give you the choice of whether or not you believe in it. The entire premise of it is based on faith and believing; not pure knowledge/proof. But I think most of us have known little kids or people who are like that. Everything you tell them, they'll say "nuh uh. prove it to me."

[Siri137]

"Faith and believing, not knowledge or evidence."
Then it's absolutely worthless, isn't it?

[strateguy632]

@BlackAndBlueBalls in other words they were skeptic not naive and must hav been convinced with proof.

[slatyb]

Yes. They grow up to be scientists and journalists.

[DrPepper12]

Yes And that's a good thing that both children and adults demand objective evidence. Were you to try to sell religion to an adult without mentioning it as a child You would be laughed at and ridiculed for trying to pass off that fiction as reality!

[RetroReviews]

@BlackAndBlueBalls yes in Jesus himself said it is a wicked and perverse generation that demands a sign

[RetroReviews]

@DrPepper12 it's funny you should mention children because Jesus said unless you become as this little child you we'll never see the kingdom of God he means that childlike faith when you were still innocent and you had imagination and you believed and things without demanding proof or evidence

[slatyb]

@RetroReviews yes, like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. Then some of us grow up.

[talka20]

Bible "now" is not in its original form... a lot of contradictions have taken place... that is why it has not remained as a word of God anymore

[Siri137]

Anymore? It never was.

[talka20]

well im towards "anymore"

[strateguy632]

@talka20 very ignorant we hav old manuscripts.

[OtterMan68]

That the people who wrote The Bible were inspired by God to record what happened, prophesize, or preach.

[Dargil]

Why do Muslims say they believe the Koran to be the 'Word of God'?

[Siri137]

I don't know. You'd have to ask them.

[Dargil]

So it is then for Bible believers.

[DrPepper12]

Because Muhammad claimed he was the "seal of the prophets" and as such the last revelation of God and the true revelation of God because previous versions got corrupted and misunderstood

[RedInnocent69]

Because Muhammad recited the Koran as revelation.

[AlexEfron]

What's interesting about such claims is that for a Muslim, Gospels indeed are word of God. Torah and Injeel (Gospels) are considered to be word of God but corrupted with time.

[RedInnocent69]

Because they’re not very bright, probably never read it, and don’t know anything about history, even of things they purport to care about. Just ask, ‘who wrote it?’

[strateguy632]

an eyewitness wrote as record
recorded in book john.

[RedInnocent69]

That’s only one part. The history of the church and finalizing the Bible in it’s current state is well documented.

[strateguy632]

but the later stuff is commentary less important anyway.

[DrPepper12]

He's claiming that it's real because a source within the source says so. 🙄😂

[AviatorTom]

Christian religions teach their members to follow God's Word, as it's written in the Bible.

[Kaneki05]

Because it's what the want to believe why else?

[Kaneki05]

They*

[Kelly6]

@siri137 i read both bible and Quran , which was given by my friend and once did analyze both.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

I know it is because the Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of God's inspired word we call the Bible.

[jahaims]

They lack critical thinking skills

[strateguy632]

as if no college professors are christian. they have skills n know bible is good. think of c. s. lewis n more. way smarter than average atheists

[DrPepper12]

Don't bother with straight guy. He's completely lost.

[RetroReviews]

@jahaims do you know who Simon Greenleaf was? He had serious critical thinking skills. He was a founding member of Harvard University School of law. He became one of the most respected authorities on evidence. And he was asked to put Jesus and the resurrection to the test. He eliminated anything that was not admissible. He went over all the facts including over 500 documented accounts of eyewitnesses that saw Jesus after he was dead and buried. And he concluded after examining all the evidence that Jesus and his resurrection is as established as any other historical event in history.

[jshm2]

What about the Torah?

[Siri137]

What about it? That isn't the 'word of god' either.

[AngryCarl]

It's a shared delusion.

[strateguy632]

that is quite "angry of you" intolerant even fundamentalism fanaticism if people don't think same as you they must be delusional.
was einstein delusional, hawkings? darwin in authentic evolution... all rejected atheism n wrote about god making big bang etc.

[Siri137]

@strateguy632 You mean Hawking, not "Hawkings", and yes, he was an atheist. Einstein was culturally Jewish, but he didn't believe in God either.

[DrPepper12]

@strateguy632 why can't you accept that religion is dying out and humanity is coming to its senses and growing up?

[strateguy632]

to @siri in your dreams.
read hawking book chapter 8. he wrote god made big bang. einstein also said he believed god was real. as dawkin quoted.
if genius believed god was real... you can say all genius are atheist but it is a lie.
i can see people telling god "you are not real you are not real" each lie is another lie.

[Kingofkings1992]

Because they are stupid.

[strateguy632]

very condescending. why don't you say they are lazy?

[Kingofkings1992]

@strateguy632 because they’re not lazy they’re stupid

[strateguy632]

your username seems christian. nice to meet a fellow christian here.

[Kingofkings1992]

@strateguy632 nowhere close to it buddy. I’m an atheist.

[strateguy632]

but why your usename?

[Kingofkings1992]

@strateguy632 that has more than one meaning

[Jennz6]

Read John 1:1

[Jennz6]

@Siri137
https://imgur.com/a/nWLiJrl

[PavlovsCogk]

@cassie88 doesn't see this.

[Jennz6]

@PavlovsCogk God is the Word

[Jennz6]

@siri137
God is the Word and the Word was with God