Even if you actually believe "no evidence proved god exists," isn't shutting yourself to the possibility a mistake?

[strateguy632]

I believe a spiritual God exists and people did write proofs

I believe a spiritual God exists but nobody tried to write any proof

I reject the idea of a spirit God for no reason

I close my mind to the possibility a spiritual God exists

If i can't personally detect radio waves then i say they don't exist until i see for myself.

I have doubts maybe god is not real but maybe exists

I claim god doesn't exist with a basis to support my claim

[blueonblack22]

Whether you believe in a higher power or not it’s up to you.

But the recent rise in atheist (and more ugly rise of antitheism) is really more attributed to zeitgeist and social contagion. It’s not new either. Many of communist countries are very anti religion. Karl Marx called religion “opium for the masses”. Now wokeness is the new dominate religion.

But I am also seeing a change in Christianity/Judaism. There was a time decades ago that self identifying as Christian (despite whether you were a true believer or not) was considered “respectable” by society. Fake people namely sociopaths would identify as Christians to improve their social status. But nowadays churches are have more real believers attending. That’s an ironically a positive sign because Jesus hates fake believers.

Anyway it’s not only no longer in “vogue” to be a Christian but becoming increasingly more difficult (and dangerous). More and more atheists are becoming anti-theists and are being increasingly more aggressive, hostile and discriminatory towards Christians. They think they are “on to something” but they are just repeating history.

[Ladsin2]

Well written response, but I have some contentions.
Firstly, you reference the opium of the masses as being derogatory towards theists. A larger view of the quote; however, changes the meaning quite substantially in my opinion. "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." Religion, in this context is the thing which provides solace for a suffering people in a suffering world. While it may be the case that the consolation isn't real that doesn't detract from the fact that it provides many people comfort in their time of need. This is what I think the quote actually means.
Secondly, I may have gone through an angsty atheist phase which you would likely consider to be antitheist, but in many respects anti-theism can be seen as a result of the encroachment of theists. Jefferson told us that their would forever be a wall of separation between church and state, but it seems increasingly that that wall has chinks in it. One example that comes to mind is the addition of "in god we trust" being added to the currency as a response to the atheists of communist russia.
Thirdly, I like that you focused on the Judeo-Christian distinction as it is really interesting to me that so few "anti-theists" focus on islam. They refuse to point their guns at it because they fear the outcome of it. The prime example being Richard Dawkins shutting down on Piers Morgan when asked about Shamima Begum.

[Caroline91]

Jesus doesn’t hate anybody.

[blueonblack22]

@Caroline91 of course he doesn’t. He never preached murder and violence either. That can’t be said for other faiths out there but I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole on this thread.

But Jesus even though Jesus doesn’t hate the sinner he DOES hate sin. For example when he forgave the adulterous woman he said “your sins are forgiven. Go in peace and sin no more”. He didn’t tell her it was “okay” for her to keep doing what she was doing.

[blueonblack22]

@Ladsin2 “ Thirdly, I like that you focused on the Judeo-Christian distinction as it is really interesting to me that so few "anti-theists" focus on islam. They refuse to point their guns at it because they fear the outcome of it. ”.

Yes I have noticed that as well. In fact hypocrisy couldn’t of been any more pronounced after the Israel Gaza conflict. Western progressives now have “gays for Palestine”. Absolutely insane considering what many Islamic countries do to homosexuals.

Anyway I don’t want to go down the Islam vs Judeo-Christian rabbit hole. But it seems like radical Islamists and far left radical progressives have found a common clause: destroying western civilization. But let’s see their horrifying agenda succeeded. Do you think radical Islamists would happily co-exist with far left progressives? There would be mass genocide, oppression and slavery in that scenario.

Also about “encroaching on church and state”. Are Judeo-Christian principles such as “love your neighbor” and the Ten Commandments (thou shall not kill, steal, commit adultery) really bad ethical principles for a well functioning society? That doesn’t mean people should have their arms twisted to get baptized, go to church, etc. Jesus never preached persecution. But again are the moral foundations of biblical scripture “oppressive” for humanity? Christian’s are forcing burqas on women nor oppressing them.

[Caroline91]

@blueonblack22 I was just taking exception to that one comment in your post.

[Ladsin2]

1) What do you think of the full quote, does it change your interpretation as well?
2) It is certainly interesting that the progressives are so gung-ho on destroying the west as they will be the first to die if it comes to it. It's why Hamas flew in and killed all the pro-palestinian jews at a rave on a holy day.
3) The REAL Ten Commandments! ↗ That's not the real ten commandments, but the frequently cited 10 are about half good. ~6 of them half to do with thought crimes which I'm not a big proponent of.

[Anpu23]

The issue is that many Christians seem to turn this into a binary equation. Its not. Is there a God?

Yes? Okay, humans have worshipped tens of thousands of gods just because we accept the devine doesn't mean that your God is the correct path.

Even if we accept Christianity as the correct path, there are several churches each claiming the only path to God.

So is it better to be an unbeliever, a believer on the wrong path, or or even a believer in the wrong god?

[strateguy632]

You just admitted atheism is a problem. As i was asking.
Thinkers can't be atheists.

[ThatGuyAaron]

"Thinkers can't be atheists."

Then why do theists tend to be science deniers?

[Anpu23]

Not necessarily, certainly an agnostic could be a thinker "I do not know" is certainly a valid answer.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

"Shutting yourself" to any possibility is a mistake, cuz u just being in denial.

Deciding you don't believe based on the evidence u have, so ignoring unless new evidence comes, is fine & normal for anything.

[strateguy632]

That leads to denying radio waves that only now we know exist. "Deciding you don't believe based on the evidence u have".

[GOLDFISH_smile]

"... unless new evidence comes" that's an important part. New info, gotta reevaluate beliefs

[strateguy632]

But in 1600s you would "reject radio waves" because no Proof... yet and be WRONG.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

B4 there was ANY evidence of radio waves, why SHOULD someone have believed it? Hmm? Even if they did believe it would do them no good, they can't even use until it's discovered anyway.

[strateguy632]

Because it needs to be DOUBT if you can't prove "yes or no". You can't claim no just kuz you don't see them.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

If there's no reason to believe that's not doubt that's just no belief. If there's SOME reason to believe then u can not believe, unsure, or believe despite doubts. If LOTS then belief, unsure, or not belief despite doubts. If total proof then belief, ignorance or denial. No way to reasonable belief without ANY evidence.

[WhitneySnow]

I believe in God but it’s not something anyone can prove. You just have to accept it on faith.

[236color]

Ah, Pascal's wager. Now let's say I believe God exists, but I believe in a different God than you do. What happens to the one of us that's wrong? What if we're both wrong and God is actually some third God neither of us believe in? Religion is based on faith, not knowledge. There may be a God, there may not. That's a fact that doesn't change no matter how convinced you are one way or the other. I do have a spiritual belief, but I am also comfortable in my uncertainty. While I'm not Christian, I find truth in 2 Corinthians 5:7 "For we walk by faith, not by sight". To me that confirms that religion is about faith, not knowledge, and further, trying to "prove" religion shows in my mind, a lack of faith.

To me, the important part is not if deity actually exists, or if the first people were made out of clay and a rib, or if someone rose from the dead 2000 years ago. The important part is how this set of beliefs alters my behavior.

[236color]

The fact that people pitch this line shows me that they don't really care what you believe, they just want you to go through the motions of their religion so you don't make them uncomfortable.

[GallopAcrossEurope]

Oh I'm open to the possibility of some sort master... *thing* or something manipulating the universe, either with some degree of conscience or randomly... I just I don't think any of the current religions make an iotum of logical sense when paired with science and what we know about the world so far. Pair it with grifting pastors or priests who resemble more or less used car salesmen than people who are actually interested in spiritually inspiring believers, and you can see why I prefer to keep the whole "existence of god/gods" thing as a strictly theoretical matter. If a god truly existed in a physical, I wouldn't need a damn "holy book" or a legion of missionaries to evangelize the word, I'd already be able to come to this conclusion without their interference in my life whatsoever simply through collected scientific material.

[Pohjolan]

If a God existed and considered it necessary for us to know, we would.

So if a God does exist then its some guy controlling our simulation who doesn't even want us to know that we are in a simulation or some 4 dimensional creature that perceives us like we do plankton.

All man made religions are made by men. Like the scriptures are restricted by the knowledge of men of that time and people's ability to travel.

There's no reason why a actual God would have to restrict themselves to one continent for any longer period or much less one part of a continent.

If Americans had been Christians before Europeans arrived then they might have been on to something.

So for all practical purposes. No.

[Ladsin2]

Damn, doesn't look like my answer got posted so I'll have to retype it. Suffice it to say my original answer was something like...

I'm and agnostic atheist. Gnosis is in reference to knowledge. A-gnostic means without knowledge. You can be an gnostic theist or atheist. You can also be an Agnostic atheist or theist. Theism is a belief statement. You either believe there is a god (theism), or you don't believe that claim (a-theism). I believe agnostic atheism is the null-hypothesis. If a theist wishes to provide evidence to support their claims I'll assess them and see if they're convincing to me or not. Thus far I see insufficient evidence to believe the claims of theists.

[Djaay]

You're absolutely wrong about this... although just as scripture also implies or emulates , those who aren't, won't, disbelieve, contest , deny the God of the Bible ) ... God will not then reveal himself to them. Being born again in his spirit The lord and the holy spirit has already revealed its self to us ones. That's how we know the truth. But we are restricted in ways we can't show you the truth without u yourself going to the lord and save ur own salvation where u also would then have a revelation of revealing... That's why u think otherwise and always will till ur born again. If not , then you'll never really know any truth.

[PeachyPie93]

Even if god doesn't exist, I rather go through life living a good way, being respectful and feeling like I always have someone on my side even in the worst of times. Then to go through life not believing in anything and feeling like we really are all alone. Faith is what keeps me going in this shit box of a world.. without faith I would just be a criminal because I hate most people in general and knowing you won't get punished if you don't get caught is one hell of a bargain.

[AviatorTom]

I was raised in a Roman Catholic family, attended Catholic grammar and high schools, and fully believed in God. As I've aged, I've become skeptical, and consider myself an agnostic.

[strateguy632]

The kind who claim "impossible to know" but blind faith believe no? Or doubt or what?

[Redstang88]

I think most people are open to the idea of god (s) if presented anything that vaguely resembles proof. I think many, certainly myself, are rejecting organized religion which is perfectly valid

[strateguy632]

Nope already 2 votes pf 10 by ignorant who
Have more faith when they read "no proof" despite false just ignorant of proof,
open.library.okstate.edu/.../

[Redstang88]

What? Your poll options are ridiculously biased anyway

[strateguy632]

That is impossible because i gave SEVEN DIFFERENT options.

[Redstang88]

Yeah and they’re all biased

[Caroline91]

I think there is a difference between belief and empirical knowledge. Belief is more in the realm of faith.

[grega239]

God doesn't exist because we have no proof.

If evidence is presented i'll change my mind

[strateguy632]

But if you said that about radio waves , when we had no proof "because we have no proof" you would be wrong.
We see we can't say no, due to lack of evidence. Just doubt.

[grega239]

What?

[FunkyMonkee]

That's what I say!

[FunkyMonkee]

There's at least 3000 dead people from just over 25 years ago that says it DOESN'T exist!

[strateguy632]

There is "at least 4 college students" despite education but
on film say you can add 5 plus 5 and get 5 ones! People can be wrong
"How much is 85 plus 25" 115!

[strateguy632]

Another bright mind corrected himself 100, wait no 60".
Kinda takes away the "assumptions" that college campus protests are the smart ones in society. Lol.

[FunkyMonkee]

Posted on the wrong question, again?

[Paradox316]

I think there are no gods because they are a demonstrably man made completely abstract concept that depends completely on the human mind to exist.

[exitseven]

This is what is called faith,.

[LiamJHayden]

Pascal's wager.

[Dongie]

I know He exists.

[Jmmmfi4]

USUALLY IS

[_piotr]

Yes, it is.