Jewish, do you believe you are following the 10 commandments?

[lightbulb27]

Specifically..."thou shalt not kill"?

How do you justify centuries of conflict and killing, some of which was not self defense, but conquoring to gain lands... even if God said so.

Isn't that stealing..."Though shalt not steal" and "Coveting your neighbors goods".

I didn't say it's easy to follow the commandments, but they are there for a reason.

This is not a criticism, but an effort to understand your thinking.

[NamerOfStars]

The word is better translated as "murder" than "kill"- but note that Yahweh Himself murdered what would've been hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent children in the name of a pissing match with his Egyptian counterparts, AFTER specifically forcing the pharaoh to maintain it. To say nothing of killing the pursuing Egyptians, then chiding the pre-Israelites with "Why are you celebrating? Those were my children, too!", with no one brave enough to say "Well then maybe you shouldn't've killed them, you schizophrenic asshole!".

It's tempting to say that was before the Commandments were given, and that's true, but He didn't exactly mellow out afterwards; instructing His followers to not only kill enemy soldiers, but civilians, children, animals, and even PLANTS ("leave no living thing", remember).

Fundamentally, Judaism is about following the will of a deity; questioning His morality wasn't part of it. This is why there's a sizeable chunk of Manhattan encircled, high above the ground, by 18 miles of fishing line, to enable the Jewish population to leave the house carrying things (which includes the likes of keys, wallet, and baby) on the Sabbath. The rules say that you can't leave "home", but this was devised (many centuries ago; it's not a New York invention) as a means of expanding what "home" constitutes, to essentially circumvent any real sacrifice and allow you to live your life relatively normally. An appallingly large part of Jewish philosophy arises from allowing no separate "spirit of the law"; there is the letter, and ONLY the letter, all because Abraham couldn't be bothered to ask for clarification.

[lightbulb27]

he's sounding more like Mohammed...

[NamerOfStars]

Kinda, yeah.

[strateguy632]

The question has a gap.

Each jew today can say "i didn't murder" so DID obey all ten. Not about paSt centuries.

Also for many centuries Jews were victims not "centuries of conflict and killing" it never happened so no item to justify.

But catholics n atheists oppressed jews how do you "justify" that?

[lightbulb27]

thats my question, if they believe they are.
I think Christians realize they are not. catholics.. no idea. athiests, not sure there is a moral code. they live by the law of worldly power I'd assume and dont fret. When there's a measuing stick, it gets tough. I think Jesus even spoke to that... how we all fail, and that's the point He made.

[WintersDaughter]

Jews don't follow just ten "commandments" Jews follow the 613 Mitzvot.

The Mitzvah is about murder. Jews don't conquer land, they have their own. They haven't started any wars, they've finished them.

[lightbulb27]

didn't know that, good education. But my question was about 10 commandments...
that sounds strong and confident. it's also not true, depending upon how you see history. If someone believes God said that, of course they believe it. but there's no question they wiped out other tribes and kicked others out.
they are a strong nation of people, built around their beliefs. that is true.
Israel started conflict with USA by attacking USS Liberty. USA decided to make peace... because they are heavily influenced by Jewish. Just one example.
They are a very protective peoples... in the insect world, I'd consider them more like yellow jackets. Devout to their nest, they will attack and chase without refrain.

I see your answer is don't murder... but thus is ok to kill. I'm not sure all Jews agree with that, but it's a reasonable answer. Depending upon how one differentiates murder and killing.

How do you see the difference between murder and killing? Is firing a tank shell into a compound with children, to get a combatant... killing, or murder? and why?

[WintersDaughter]

The attack on the USS Liberty was an accident that Israel apologized for. They were in the middle of a war and couldn't identify the ship. When they found out it was American, not Egyptian, they stopped immediately.

The difference between killing and murder is that murder doesn't have a justification. Killing can be self defense or in a war.

For example, when Hamas uses children as shields so Israel won't attack or is hesitant to do anything. When Hamas hides in hospitals, schools, houses and churches. Aka commits a war crime so they can keep attacking Israel. Israel then has to make a choice, do nothing and have their people die or go in and kill Hamas and try to spare civilians. Israel tells people where they're attacking so civilians can get out, they don't have to do that. It's more than Hamas does.

You do realize that civilians are the highest causality in every war, right? And Israel has the LOWEST civilian to combatant ratio.

[lightbulb27]

Good definition. not sure why my Bible says "kill" vs Murder... there's clearly a big difference.
USS Liberty, that doesn't match the witness testimony of the survivors. can provide the video if you like. It had a big American flag on it... at minimum. They tried to sink a spy ship is what it looks like.

For sure, the USA tallies of killed in Iraq, vietnam, Korea, WWII etc... is huge. War is disasterous.
But that's my question as to if they think they are following the commandments... as understood...

The true story told in "Hacksaw Ridge" is an example of conviction to the law... by a Christian/Catholic. But if everyone in military did that, we wouldn't have power against those opposed.

I'm not aware of civilian to combatant death rate of Israel... not sure about that.

[strateguy632]

www.biblegateway.com/.../ to @lightbulb27 translation

[Agape93]

1. God created those commandments, so fighting in his causes violates nothing.

2. They didn't steal land. Israel is their ancestral land, given by God to them

[lightbulb27]

so it's not killing if the decide it isn't? I don't understand...

[Agape93]

Technically it's supposed to be translated as thou shalt not murder. But yeah, if God says to wage war in his name, you're good.

[lightbulb27]

are you Jewish?

[Agape93]

Does it matter?

[lightbulb27]

you seem to know a bit and I was asking the question of Jewish.

[Agape93]

Ah ok

[lightbulb27]

I can convert you to Jewish if you like, just mail you an entertaining hat and some bagels.

[Agape93]

Well that's kinda racist ngl

[lightbulb27]

humor is sometimes...