Do you think that this premise is wrong? Can't we get to the first cause with this?

[behnam1999]

"Every change has a cause".

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I think a better question is why would you want to go back to examine the first “cause” for change?

[behnam1999]

Because it’s the most important question: is everything around us here for a reason or did it all just happen for no reason at all? That changes how we see life, purpose, and even ourselves.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

So, you’re saying you pretty much want to find the “cause” we choose to label as “God” right?

[behnam1999]

No , I’m trying to follow the logic to wherever it leads. If that leads to something timeless and uncaused behind the universe, then sure, you can call it God. But I’m not forcing that label, I’m just asking the question honestly.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I meant more in the sense of the thing that created the universe as we know it than an actual being. But if that’s the case, wouldn’t you just be looking for the big bang?

[behnam1999]

The Big Bang is just the first event we can measure, it doesn't explain why anything began. I'm asking what caused that event to happen in the first place. So I’m going a step before the Big Bang.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

And I take it you don’t want to believe the theories about how the universe was a singular mass that exploded due to a gaining of too much mass?

[behnam1999]

I’m not against any scientific theory, I’m just asking the question those theories can’t answer: where did that initial stuff come from? Even if the universe started as a super dense point, why was there anything there to begin with?

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I see, well good luck figuring out the universe before the universe. No one has any answers about what that might have been, except maybe the Lich from Adventure Time lol

[behnam1999]

😄 Haha, the Lich might be onto something! But jokes aside, saying “no one has any answers” is actually why the question matters so much.
Because if there really was a beginning, then either:

1. It came from nothing for no reason, which breaks everything we know about logic and causality…

or

2. There was something timeless, uncaused, and powerful behind it, and that changes everything about how we view life, meaning, and ourselves.

I’m not pretending to have all the answers. I’m just not okay with not even asking the question.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I more meant his bit about how “before there was everything, there was nothing. And before there was nothing, there were monsters.” But yeah, you’re basically looking for the catalyst of the creation of the universe, AKA god lol

[strateguy632]

I agree and that is a self evident truth, and as you said must lead to a first spirit cause.

[Dargil]

Hard to find Day Zero.

[behnam1999]

What do you mean by finding Day Zero?

[Dargil]

How far back does the first cause go? Such as with Palestine or Ukraine.

[behnam1999]

Doesn't matter how far back is the first cause. The only thing that matters is to prove the existence of the first cause.

[Dargil]

You may have to go back to Genesis.