No, Fascism refers to a particular form of government and to militaristic views.
American nationalists are those who don't want us to get involved in wars, trade, or humanitarian efforts in other countries. They want us to use all of our resources at home and ignore any benefits of international cooperation and not give preferential treatment to trading partners like China. Trump ran on a nationalist platform. America First!
It doesn't mean that they want the military to run the government and that we should invade Canada and Mexico, which would be Fascist.
I am patriotic, but I'm not a nationalist. I learned way back in college about the importance of having alliances, being part of the world economy, and helping the oppressed. We are part of a global community. Withdrawing, the way of the United States did before World War I, can really cause problems for us down the road. On the other hand I don't think we should be over-involved, either.
@PunkinPie Ok, so it sounds like nationalism is not fascism. Nationalism does seem, however, to be PART Of fascism. That is that say, among other things, fascists are nationalists. Correct?
Patriotism ("we've got a lot to offer") is the better form of nationalism, jingoism ("we're #1") is the worst (especially if you're actually #37!).
Wiktionary says this (and Webster's, says something similar):
nationalism (countable and uncountable, plural nationalisms)
1. Patriotism; the idea of supporting one's country, people or culture. 2. Support for the creation of a sovereign nation (which does not currently exist). Basque nationalism, Kurdish nationalism 3. (Britain, Ireland) Support for the union of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. 4. Jingoism; the support of one nation's interests to the exclusion of others.
@None11am there is something very wrong to assume your country is somehow the greatest, when the reality is that every country has a dark history and has horrible imperfections.
Not the greatest,, but I genuinely believe Britain has done mostly good for the world despite some low points and so I'm proud of it. It's people like you who don't give a shit about what your country has given you yet use its services who are ignorant
@None11am your country has only been decent for roughly 50 years. Your people didn't outlaw the death penalty until 1964 and you hanged people until then. Not to mention the problems with the monarchy. Your queen still has the authority to declare war for any reason she sees fit. That's an outdated and non-democratic system. Plus your people are almost as fat as Americans.
We are a proud and upright people who stopped slavery and freed Europe of oppression and tyranny, and have fought for democracy around the globe. We also were the world's first truly democratic nation, and our legal system has been copied the world over. What nation are you from? Judging from your attitude a very rude and pathetic one.
@None11am your nation started the crusades, aka 1000 years of darkness. It would be the same as Germany trying to say they gave the world great cars. Your country fucked up a lot worse than it gave back.
We didn't start the Crusades, that was the pope, you ignorant little twerp. Also, if it wasn't for us the Germans or the Russians would rule the world in tyranny. You still haven't answered my question. Where are YOU from? Then I can avoid it like the plague, unless you're just an exception and you're mentally ill, which seems like a very real possibility?
@None11am nationalism is what allowed people like Hitler and Stalin to proclaim they could somehow "help" the world by converting them to their country's way of thinking. Both dictators convinced their people that their country was the greatest and they both used nationalism to further their goals of world domination. Nationalism is a bad idea even though it seems like a good idea on paper. You're extremley simple to think that it's a good idea. Life isn't simple and neither is politics.
You fucking leftie Yanks are a pain in the ass to begin with. You're a bunch of ignorant, pathetic wasters. Also, nationalism is what held us Brits together when we fought the Germans and the Japs to free the world. Of course you lazy sods didn't join that one for a long time. You are an extremely judgmental and ill-informed man, based on your previous comments
@None11am you're just gonna throw childish insults without backing it up with facts. The British didn't use nationalism to hold themselves together during the second world war. Nationalism is thinking your country is the greatest, Winston Churchill never said England was the greatest country in the world. And most of your country is left compared to my country anyway. Although, it's nice to see that Europeans can be just as dumb as the conservative Americans.
You're the one who's blatantly lying, saying we started the crusades. And national pride and the feeling that we were doing good is what held us together through the war. You've just proven to me that many Americans are ignorant, rude, and throw out blatant lies to counter opinions you don't agree with. Your country is so great in many ways, yet self righteous and uneducated people like you are giving it an increasingly bad name. Nationalism can be bad, but it's not all bad. Back up your opinions with facts before making blanket statements on history
@None11am here's Encyclopedia Britannica (your own country's encyclopedia) https://www.britannica.com/event/Crusades And we're talking about nationalism, not loving your country.
But again, you said the Brits started them, and we didn't. And think about how nationalism has helped people stay together in times of oppression. Think about the Tibetans banding together in face of Chinese oppression and keeping their nationalism and love of Buddhism alive. Nationalism used wrongly is bad, but used correctly it can hold people together. You're grasping at straws, my friend
@None11am your own country's encyclopedia says the crusades were started out of England. Nationalism means you think your country's the greatest and best in the world. Winston Churchill did not perpetuate a nationalistic society during WW2, that would be stupid because Hitler was using Nationalism and Churchill obviously didn't want anything that Hitler did. We're talking about Nationalism, thinking your country is better than every other country. Not pride.
Well, nationalism doesn't actually mean feelings of superiority, it means live of your country. If you actually did your research and looked up the definition of nationalism you wouldn't find superiority in it. Also, it said that the pope started the crusades with the help of Norman knights.
Also, seeing as you seem to lack education, I thought I'd also explain that the Crusades weren't about nationalism, but were a series of religious wars instigated by the Pope. They were launched to take back the Holy lands and were led by a militant Church and a sense of religious, not ethnic, superiority. You might want to read a bit more sir, instead of showcasing a bad case of American arrogance without evidence.
"In 1095, Alexius sent envoys to Pope Urban II asking for mercenary troops from the West to help confront the Turkish threat. Though relations between Christians in the East and West had long been fractious, Alexius’s request came at a time when the situation was improving.
In November 1095, at the Council of Clermont in southern France, the Pope called on Western Christians to take up arms to aid the Byzantines and recapture the Holy Land from Muslim control. This marked the beginning of the Crusades." -Didn't start in England. A response to Muslim control of the Holy Lands. Not nationalism, per se, but geopolitics.
@None11am do you have a learning disability? You seem to have gotten lost in the conversation. We weren't talking about the Crusades as the same as nationalism, I brought up the crusades because it was England's fault. It never had anything to do with nationalism.
But the Crusades weren't England's fault, and I don't get why you brought them up on the first place. Also, I have just consistently said that sometimes nationalism is good and can bring people together, like the British in WW2 and the Tibetans today. Are you unable to accept that relatively reasonable opinion? Typical American liberal arrogance. Because of morons like you who spout drivel without proper evidence, your countrymen vote for idiots like Trump.
@None11am you've clearly gotten lost because you're not even getting the point anymore. And Liberals voted against Trump. What are you even talking about anymore?
You've obviously lost this argument and are grasping at straws. If you were literate or possessed even marginal intelligence you'd understand my point by actually reading it, but seeing as you're extremely stupid, I'll spell it out again. Lefties like you can't admit it when you're wrong, so it's no wonder the average American lost faith in you people and voted for a moron like Trump. You're the one who lost the point when you started bringing up the Crusades and bashing England and denying history when I was just making the point that nationalism is not always bad. Now why don't you go read some history and improve your analytical skills before mouthing off needlessly and telling people they're ignorant and simple when you don't immediately agree with them? Is this easy enough for you to read Yank, or do I need to spell it out again for you? 😁
Yank, you know what I'm talking about, you're just acting dumb to try to make me look stupid because you know you've lost this one. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're actually intellectually challenged and can't read my very clear reply. Either way, do me a favour and keep your ignorance and aggressiveness at home, and don't come to England, you know, the country that actually teaches its children to think critically and not make blanket statements on topics. :)
Again, my point is that lefties like you make blanket statements without evidence and become aggressive when others don't agree with you. It's because of that attitude that Americans became disgusted with your fellow lefties and voted for a moron like Trump. You really are stupid if you can't read something as simple as that Yank. What kind of education do you have in America? God forbid, if it molds minds like yours, your nation really is in trouble.
By the way, you still can't admit that you're wrong that nationalism is not always bad, which was my original point before you started bashing England and making up facts so we got off topic. Seriously, are you mentally disabled?
You know what, I made my point clear a long time ago before you started veering off topic, so I'm not going to argue with an ignorant fucker like you anymore
Sorry to butt in, but saying the English started the Crusades is like saying the British started WWII; both were responses to wars of expansion by the other side.
He was saying that all nationalism is bad, and I said sometimes it's good and can bring people together in times of crisis. The he started bashing England and saying it started the crusades and all kinds of BS, and he's claiming I'm ignorant when I gave actual evidence.
According to Wiktionary, nationalism can include both Patriotism, the idea of supporting one's country, people or culture (good) and Jingoism, the support of one nation's interests to the exclusion of others (bad).
I think None11am is arguing for Patriotism, and John_Doesnt is arguing against Jingoism.
So, you're both right (apart from the minor detail of the Crusades part, unless you think Britain and France started WWII).
@goaded it was the Catholic church of England that started the crusades according to Encyclopedia Britannica which I gave a link to. If England's own encyclopedia agrees to it than so should you.
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the big differences is that nazi didn't care about the good people. which is immoral, they send them to die, and for no reason.
The differences are trivial. They are all shitty authoritarian ideologies.
What's the difference between patriotism and nationalism?
Patriotism means you're proud of being from your own country, but you don't think that you're a thousand percent better than every other country.
@PunkinPie So Nationalism is like Fascism?
No, Fascism refers to a particular form of government and to militaristic views.
American nationalists are those who don't want us to get involved in wars, trade, or humanitarian efforts in other countries. They want us to use all of our resources at home and ignore any benefits of international cooperation and not give preferential treatment to trading partners like China. Trump ran on a nationalist platform. America First!
It doesn't mean that they want the military to run the government and that we should invade Canada and Mexico, which would be Fascist.
I am patriotic, but I'm not a nationalist. I learned way back in college about the importance of having alliances, being part of the world economy, and helping the oppressed. We are part of a global community. Withdrawing, the way of the United States did before World War I, can really cause problems for us down the road. On the other hand I don't think we should be over-involved, either.
@PunkinPie Ok, so it sounds like nationalism is not fascism. Nationalism does seem, however, to be PART Of fascism. That is that say, among other things, fascists are nationalists. Correct?
Yes I would say so. Good point.
Patriotism ("we've got a lot to offer") is the better form of nationalism, jingoism ("we're #1") is the worst (especially if you're actually #37!).
Wiktionary says this (and Webster's, says something similar):
nationalism (countable and uncountable, plural nationalisms)
1. Patriotism; the idea of supporting one's country, people or culture.
2. Support for the creation of a sovereign nation (which does not currently exist).
Basque nationalism, Kurdish nationalism
3. (Britain, Ireland) Support for the union of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
4. Jingoism; the support of one nation's interests to the exclusion of others.
@PunkinPie absolutely - except Scotland really IS the best country in the world!!! LOL
@Bella16 Well, second only to England. :)
Actually, that's jingoism; England voted the country out of the EU. How hard is it to get a Scottish passport?
There isn't one. They're synonymous. Nationalism is just political patriotism.
All of them suck, so let's just agree on that.
Nationalism is wonderful if you're from a country that is good and has done a lot of good for the word
For the world
@None11am you're gullible or ignorant.
Ditto my friend. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your country's achievements, because they're like your extended family.
@None11am there is something very wrong to assume your country is somehow the greatest, when the reality is that every country has a dark history and has horrible imperfections.
Not the greatest,, but I genuinely believe Britain has done mostly good for the world despite some low points and so I'm proud of it. It's people like you who don't give a shit about what your country has given you yet use its services who are ignorant
@None11am your country has only been decent for roughly 50 years. Your people didn't outlaw the death penalty until 1964 and you hanged people until then. Not to mention the problems with the monarchy. Your queen still has the authority to declare war for any reason she sees fit. That's an outdated and non-democratic system. Plus your people are almost as fat as Americans.
We are a proud and upright people who stopped slavery and freed Europe of oppression and tyranny, and have fought for democracy around the globe. We also were the world's first truly democratic nation, and our legal system has been copied the world over. What nation are you from? Judging from your attitude a very rude and pathetic one.
@None11am your nation started the crusades, aka 1000 years of darkness. It would be the same as Germany trying to say they gave the world great cars. Your country fucked up a lot worse than it gave back.
We didn't start the Crusades, that was the pope, you ignorant little twerp. Also, if it wasn't for us the Germans or the Russians would rule the world in tyranny. You still haven't answered my question. Where are YOU from? Then I can avoid it like the plague, unless you're just an exception and you're mentally ill, which seems like a very real possibility?
@None11am nationalism is what allowed people like Hitler and Stalin to proclaim they could somehow "help" the world by converting them to their country's way of thinking. Both dictators convinced their people that their country was the greatest and they both used nationalism to further their goals of world domination. Nationalism is a bad idea even though it seems like a good idea on paper.
You're extremley simple to think that it's a good idea. Life isn't simple and neither is politics.
@None11am I'm American and it would be nice if every ignorant Britain avoided my country. We've already got enough historically ignorant people here.
You fucking leftie Yanks are a pain in the ass to begin with. You're a bunch of ignorant, pathetic wasters. Also, nationalism is what held us Brits together when we fought the Germans and the Japs to free the world. Of course you lazy sods didn't join that one for a long time. You are an extremely judgmental and ill-informed man, based on your previous comments
@None11am you're just gonna throw childish insults without backing it up with facts. The British didn't use nationalism to hold themselves together during the second world war. Nationalism is thinking your country is the greatest, Winston Churchill never said England was the greatest country in the world.
And most of your country is left compared to my country anyway. Although, it's nice to see that Europeans can be just as dumb as the conservative Americans.
You're the one who's blatantly lying, saying we started the crusades. And national pride and the feeling that we were doing good is what held us together through the war. You've just proven to me that many Americans are ignorant, rude, and throw out blatant lies to counter opinions you don't agree with. Your country is so great in many ways, yet self righteous and uneducated people like you are giving it an increasingly bad name. Nationalism can be bad, but it's not all bad. Back up your opinions with facts before making blanket statements on history
@None11am here's Encyclopedia Britannica (your own country's encyclopedia) https://www.britannica.com/event/Crusades
And we're talking about nationalism, not loving your country.
But again, you said the Brits started them, and we didn't. And think about how nationalism has helped people stay together in times of oppression. Think about the Tibetans banding together in face of Chinese oppression and keeping their nationalism and love of Buddhism alive. Nationalism used wrongly is bad, but used correctly it can hold people together. You're grasping at straws, my friend
@None11am your own country's encyclopedia says the crusades were started out of England. Nationalism means you think your country's the greatest and best in the world. Winston Churchill did not perpetuate a nationalistic society during WW2, that would be stupid because Hitler was using Nationalism and Churchill obviously didn't want anything that Hitler did.
We're talking about Nationalism, thinking your country is better than every other country. Not pride.
Well, nationalism doesn't actually mean feelings of superiority, it means live of your country. If you actually did your research and looked up the definition of nationalism you wouldn't find superiority in it. Also, it said that the pope started the crusades with the help of Norman knights.
Also, seeing as you seem to lack education, I thought I'd also explain that the Crusades weren't about nationalism, but were a series of religious wars instigated by the Pope. They were launched to take back the Holy lands and were led by a militant Church and a sense of religious, not ethnic, superiority. You might want to read a bit more sir, instead of showcasing a bad case of American arrogance without evidence.
"In 1095, Alexius sent envoys to Pope Urban II asking for mercenary troops from the West to help confront the Turkish threat. Though relations between Christians in the East and West had long been fractious, Alexius’s request came at a time when the situation was improving.
In November 1095, at the Council of Clermont in southern France, the Pope called on Western Christians to take up arms to aid the Byzantines and recapture the Holy Land from Muslim control. This marked the beginning of the Crusades."
-Didn't start in England. A response to Muslim control of the Holy Lands. Not nationalism, per se, but geopolitics.
@None11am do you have a learning disability? You seem to have gotten lost in the conversation. We weren't talking about the Crusades as the same as nationalism, I brought up the crusades because it was England's fault. It never had anything to do with nationalism.
But the Crusades weren't England's fault, and I don't get why you brought them up on the first place. Also, I have just consistently said that sometimes nationalism is good and can bring people together, like the British in WW2 and the Tibetans today. Are you unable to accept that relatively reasonable opinion? Typical American liberal arrogance. Because of morons like you who spout drivel without proper evidence, your countrymen vote for idiots like Trump.
@None11am you've clearly gotten lost because you're not even getting the point anymore. And Liberals voted against Trump. What are you even talking about anymore?
You've obviously lost this argument and are grasping at straws. If you were literate or possessed even marginal intelligence you'd understand my point by actually reading it, but seeing as you're extremely stupid, I'll spell it out again. Lefties like you can't admit it when you're wrong, so it's no wonder the average American lost faith in you people and voted for a moron like Trump. You're the one who lost the point when you started bringing up the Crusades and bashing England and denying history when I was just making the point that nationalism is not always bad. Now why don't you go read some history and improve your analytical skills before mouthing off needlessly and telling people they're ignorant and simple when you don't immediately agree with them? Is this easy enough for you to read Yank, or do I need to spell it out again for you? 😁
@None11am leftists voted against Trump you idiot.
Yank, you know what I'm talking about, you're just acting dumb to try to make me look stupid because you know you've lost this one. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're actually intellectually challenged and can't read my very clear reply. Either way, do me a favour and keep your ignorance and aggressiveness at home, and don't come to England, you know, the country that actually teaches its children to think critically and not make blanket statements on topics. :)
By the way, it's fun debating with arrogant morons such as yourself. :)
@None11am do you really think liberals support Trump? You're more ignorant of politics than I thought.
Again, my point is that lefties like you make blanket statements without evidence and become aggressive when others don't agree with you. It's because of that attitude that Americans became disgusted with your fellow lefties and voted for a moron like Trump. You really are stupid if you can't read something as simple as that Yank. What kind of education do you have in America? God forbid, if it molds minds like yours, your nation really is in trouble.
By the way, you still can't admit that you're wrong that nationalism is not always bad, which was my original point before you started bashing England and making up facts so we got off topic. Seriously, are you mentally disabled?
@None11am you're really dense and you're just not making any sense. How can I argue with you when you don't even understand the conversation?
You know what, I made my point clear a long time ago before you started veering off topic, so I'm not going to argue with an ignorant fucker like you anymore
@None11am you made the point clear that you don't understand the conversation.
And once again, your arrogance and stupidity comes to the fore.
Sorry to butt in, but saying the English started the Crusades is like saying the British started WWII; both were responses to wars of expansion by the other side.
@goaded the argument was about nationalism but this idiot doesn't know what nationalism is.
He was saying that all nationalism is bad, and I said sometimes it's good and can bring people together in times of crisis. The he started bashing England and saying it started the crusades and all kinds of BS, and he's claiming I'm ignorant when I gave actual evidence.
Oh well, JohnDoesn't is just another arrogant left-wing American.
According to Wiktionary, nationalism can include both Patriotism, the idea of supporting one's country, people or culture (good) and Jingoism, the support of one nation's interests to the exclusion of others (bad).
I think None11am is arguing for Patriotism, and John_Doesnt is arguing against Jingoism.
So, you're both right (apart from the minor detail of the Crusades part, unless you think Britain and France started WWII).
Pax? :)
@goaded it was the Catholic church of England that started the crusades according to Encyclopedia Britannica which I gave a link to. If England's own encyclopedia agrees to it than so should you.
@goaded you're both idiots and I'm done with this conversation.
This was informative and well written. Thank you.
best to avoid that direction in genral
Ok cool
you can be all 3 too.
Thought provoking take...
Thanks for sharing!
Nationalist:me
Nazi:hitler
Fascist:mussolini
Interesting
Hmm... interesting
Ok cool read!
I am a nationalist.
Interesting take
Interesting take