The Key Differences Between Nazis, Nationalism, and Fascism

[TheOtakuMaid]

After the Virginia riots, it has increasingly come to my attention that people don't actually know what Fascism and Nationism actually are. So I am here to educate.

First let us start off with the statement Nazism, Fascism, Nationalism are not synonymous and three different things.

What is Nationalism?

Nationalism is loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially: a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or political groups. Intense nationalism was one of the causes of the war and as such, it is customary and unique to each nation. if you know someone who is a Patriot they are a Nationalist. And that is fine. While I don't like flag worshipers here much as I find them hypocritical that is in essence Nationalism. And so as the definition states an American Nationalist would actually be against a Nazi than for as a Nazi promotes German Nationalism and German Ideals (well probably less now but back then yes).

What are the benefits and disadvantages of nationalism?

Well, the few that there are would be the strengthening of one's culture and country. Every country has some patriots and in turn, nationalists. the strongest nations have the most.

The negatives, well most nationalists don't like criticism of their own ideas, culture, and country. So while the Nazis were Nationalists, not all Nationalists are Nazi's.

What is Fascism?

A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

An autocratic government thereby meaning Militaristic and lead by the Military and where one person possesses unlimited power. Think of a Monarchy, only no Nobility to balance out the power and more military base.

Now unlike Nationalism, I don't see too much value in this system compared to a Monarchy or Republic. However, I would prefer it over communism and socialism, for the case of America that is.

Benefits?

Well, the fact that Germany and countries that had it have greatly grown in power and such I would say it can be quite positive but more so for the collective than personal freedom but I still think it can benefit the individual as well.

Now as with nationalism, the Nazi's were Fascists but Fascism can be unique to each case so it should not be taken all as Nazism. As it's just a political system that can function quite well so long as the right conditions are met. Such could be said for communism but communism is taken based on the notion that forced equal outcome is somehow good when it benefits no one, not even the country.

What exactly is Nazism?

Well, it's more so an ideology than a political system. Neo-Nazi's in America are not actually Nationalist as they promote 40's German ideas than American ones and so are not truly American Nationalists. They can still be Fascist.

However, personally, I see Nazism as a very very bad idea to run anything off of. While Fascism can work along with Nationalism, the reason Germany lost was pretty much due to their ideology. If they spent less time gassing people and enlisted such people into their military, not to mention hold off on their conquest till absolutely stock piled, they may have won or at least ended in a draw with the rest of the world.

They failed not because of their system, but because of their ideology being Nazism. Personally, I also think we should just let this ideology die as it benefits no one really.

Well, that's a pretty simple explanation for each. Give me your opinions in the comments.

[suki248]

White nationalists = Racists.
White supremacists = Racists.
Nazis = Racists.
Neo-Nazis = Racists.
What the riots in my backyard had to do with: Racism.

Nice Take, but I don't know why you mention the Virginia riots if you're not going to mention RACIAL nationalism and the racial aspects of Nazism. If people are talking about these terms in relation to the Virginia riots, that's the kind of stuff they're talking about. Politics minus the racism is good to know but not exactly relevant.

[DonkeyRick69]

Black nationalism=rascist?

[zagor]

Nationalism isn't just an American or white thing. There are Nationalists in Africa and Asia and pretty much everywhere.

[CurlyHairGuy]

There is a big difference between white nationlist nazis and regular nationalists who pretty much just want their countrymen to be put over foreigners.

[zagor]

@CurlyHairGuy Not so much. Look at Zimbabwe.

[CurlyHairGuy]

@zagor if the definition of nationalism is patriotism then what is so wrong with that? They have drilled it in our heads all our lives to be patriotic. Now the white nationalists are a total different story they want to deport anybody who isn't white which is ridiculous and hateful me I just want Americans to be put first and I want our country to stop helping other countries while our vets and homeless go without any help and I think to want that is fair.

[OlderAndWiser]

The term "nationalist" gets used in different ways by different people. The definition that I use would lead me to disagree with some of the statements that you made about nationalism, but the only true disagreement is about the definition of the terms.

[goaded]

Nationalism:
1. Patriotism; the idea of supporting one's country, people or culture.
2. Support for the creation of a sovereign nation (which does not currently exist).
Basque nationalism, Kurdish nationalism
3. (Britain, Ireland) Support for the union of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
4. Jingoism; the support of one nation's interests to the exclusion of others.

1 is generally OK, many countries have much to be proud of, 2 & 3 have led to terrorism, and 4 frequently leads to wars. All in all, something to be wary of.

All four definitions' adherents will claim to be Patriots, of course.

[OlderAndWiser]

@goaded In the mid-1800's, César Cui, Aleksandr Borodin, Mily Balakirev, Modest Mussorgsky, and Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov ("The Five") banded together to create a "nationalistic" music for Russia. Tchaikovsky resisted their "overtures" to join the group. and his music is identified with Russia more than any other composer's music.

[OlderAndWiser]

Nationalism sometimes produces much good as I am sure you understand and would readily agree.

[goaded]

Patriotism sometimes does.

[ThisDudeHere]

In all actuallity, Nazism, or short for National Socialism, was an political-economic idea. Technically, it had nothing to do with anti-semitism.

[JohnDoe3000]

Yes it did. Fascism doesn't have to be anti-semitic , but Nazism is a distinct flavor of fascism combined with anti-semitism. This is where Nazi-Germany differed significantly from its fascist (but non-nazi) allies.

[RegularTK421]

Nationalism isn't just mindless flag waving. That flag not only represents a territory, it also represents a common people held together by common values, ideas, language and identity. Societies can be very different culturally, and some idea sets are not compatible. Example, you can't live under both a Republic or a Monarchy. You can't have a society that outlaws homosexuality, yet allows gay marriage. Sometimes it's one way, or the other. Now just because some people are different, doesn't mean they can not coexist. On the other hand, sometimes they can not. It will lead to natural conflict and headbutting. So yes, I consider myself a nationalist. The United States is best represented by the Declaration of Independence, the U. S Constitution, and a truly classless society that was the first to eliminate the concept of nobility and titles. To this day, I have no idea why certain nations still live under Monarchs. Now Fascism, doesn't necessarily have to give power to only one man. I will say that typically the government and military tend to have much more power and authority, and that the good of the nation comes before the good of the individual. Fascism if I remember right, translates from Fasces, which came from the Roman empire. I guess a loose translation of it means strength. Fascist economics in theory, sometimes called the third way, or third alternative, was really a mixed economy model but would always put the state at the forefront, rather than allow one to acquire vast amounts of wealth at the expense of his country. One could become excessively rich, as long as he did not damage his nation in the process. On the same note, one's wealth could not be taken and distributed to those who didn't earn it for senseless "equality." Typically fascist economics combined left wing economic models, with right wing social values. Germany made a few critical mistakes during ww2. One, was that Germany suspended it's nuclear program to conduct a more conventional invasion of Poland. Had Germany developed nuclear weapons first, they would have won ww2. Hitler also broke a peace treaty with Stalin, and invaded the Soviet Union which was a big mistake. Fascism historically did well against crime. The Sicilian crime families came to the United States because Mussolini's government was so effective in dismantling them. They didn't have any laws to hide behind to continue their criminal enterprises. They were simply hunted down and jailed or killed.

[RegularTK421]

The policing campaign in Sicily was lead by Cesare Mori.

[Branes51]

I disagree that a nationalist inherently feels his nation is superior to others. I believe love of country, tradition, beliefs and a desire to be self-determining are what define a nationalist. I consider myself a nationalist, but I don't feel that America is superior to other democratic republics or monarchies. I just want my country dictated to by outsiders e. g. the United Nations.
And the words "racism, nazi, facist, white supremest" are tossed around by the media and instigators without any basis in fact.
Not every organization that promotes pride in a race is supremest. The term supremest implies that the individual believes his/her race is superior to others. That term could apply to any ethnic or race based organization that promotes itself, including the KKK, NAACP, Black Panthers. Black Lives Matter. Jewish Defense League, and many other organizations. But most of those DO NOT teach or imply that their race/ethnicity is superior. Most are about self-protection from real or perceived offenses. There is an old adage, "there is strength in numbers."
These groups come about when a group of people feel oppressed or threatened by another race or ethnicity. The issue is what part of the card are you looking at? From one side, the Founding Fathers were brave freedom fighters. But from the view of the English, they were terrorists, traitors and basically ungrateful for the privilege of being British citizens. This applies in any situation.

[DonkeyRick69]

I think you over simplify and nationalism, and if your referring to it being the main cause of ww1 it was partly but also cause rivalry between competing European powers over territory, colonies, militarism, control of the sea, most importantly human greed and hunger for glory.
Nationalism is a range of political, social, and economic systems characterised by promoting the interests of a particular nation, particularly with the aim of gaining and maintaining self-governance, or full sovereignty, over the group's homeland. The political ideology therefore holds that a nation should govern itself, free from unwanted outside interference, and is linked to the concept of self-determination. Nationalism is further oriented towards developing and maintaining a national identity based on shared characteristics such as culture, language, race, religion, political goals or a belief in a common ancestry. Nationalism therefore seeks to preserve the nation's culture. It often also involves a sense of pride in the nation's achievements, and is closely linked to the concept of patriotism. In these terms, nationalism can be considered positive or negative. In some cases, nationalism referred to the belief that a nation should be able to control the government and all means of production.
Nazism didn't lose ww2 for Germany Hitler did for so many different reasons. But when you look at it Hitler took a very weak Germany and conquered Europe before Germany was ready, then he attacked Russia without finishing Britain the result of which meant he had to fight on many fronts and keep military forces spread out all over Europe, never was the German military ever able to bring it's full force to bear against Russia.

[TheOtakuMaid]

no, I was mainly referring to it being the cause of world war 2. as Germany had pretty aggressive nationalism

the great war was due to an assassination and was more a family dispute along with nationalism

[TheOtakuMaid]

but i was using dictionary definitions and adding to them so of course they are a little simplified XD

[Anon1010101]

Democracy is Weak, inefficient, divisive, Selfish,
FASCISM IS THE FUTURE!
Putting something larger then yourself and having a purpose. The Nation! and PEOPLE!
You have no Value other then To Best The Nationals Interests by Merit or Wealth.
We all Pull together as a Collective towards Efficiency and Objectivity.
These two Phrases are KEY, that will help mold Society.
if we allow FASCISM prevail over Democracy, Things will get a lot done quicker.. and efficiently! rather then dealing with a corrupt greedy bureaucratic government. that has no interest to the people's plea's or will... to rebuild roads? hospitals? schools? jobs? etc they will always lie to you always... rather then give people what they want, by REACTION DIRECT ACTION.
And that is what we need, that is also including the power of it's LEADER.
What we have today, is an Oligarchy... The Powerful banking (((few))) who have no interest of The Nation but themselves and their selfish greed, this will lead to the Death of an Empire.
FASCISM ABOVE ALL!

[Bella16]

If you are so confident of your point of view why don't you give us your name? I respect your point of view although I don't agree with it.

[Giacomanzo]

"Well, the fact that Germany and countries that had it have greatly grown in power and such."

Under the Fascists, Britain and the other powers of Europe set an Embargo to Italy.(1936). We weren't able anylonger of buy weaponries, coal and oil. In particular, not being able to produce any kind of Oil, our transportation, but also our ammunition during the war that was well known about to come we were lacking of basically any kind of supplies but men.

"I would say it can be quite positive but more so for the collective than personal freedom but I still think it can benefit the individual as well."

Yes. As long as you are part of a Military Corp or the Fascist Party. We were forced by the embargo to join the War (to avoid losing our only Ally at the time, Germany). Doing so, family as my grandfathers', who only had their small farm and no support from the Nation, were stolen their grain from British militaries, leaving them with barely enough food to sustain themselves.

[TheOtakuMaid]

granted but the poor can also be fucked under capitalism no system is perfect. however, i can not rule out that the system of Fascism does not work well as it turned a starving German nation into almost conquering all of Europe. if they stopped after Austria they would still be around today and would probably easily rival us

[Giacomanzo]

A dictatorship will always conduct your nation into isolationism. It cannot work in the modern worldwide life.

[TheOtakuMaid]

and yet it can. the British empire could of been seen as such as the monarch held absolute power and yet it was the greatest empire to span across the earth and benefited many

[disgustingweebtrash]

British Empire :D
http://i.imgur.com/2sNVSf3.jpg

[None11am]

The monarch didn't hold absolute power, there was an elected parliament. Britain is actually the world's oldest modern democracy, dating back to 1215. The British Empire was a good and decent empire

[Giacomanzo]

I would have answered to your "held the absolute power", but @None11am did it for me.

[disgustingweebtrash]

I think he might absolute power as in the Pax Britannica period

[Giacomanzo]

@disgustingweebtrash Even considering the Victorian age, virtually speaking, there was a Parliament; the Queen just had a very active influence on it.

[Mok1993]

Nationalism is a joke and if you're American (from where im sitting) they lay it on thick! Pledging to the flag and shit. Woah thats some kim jong type shit. I think nationalism divides us. You can love where your from as a place but i think the thing we call a 'nation' trancends geographical location. Its deeper than that. It is the system implimented by a certain government for example. If you are french (fair enough you have french culture) but you are no different in essence to any other human and if they make you believe that you are french in your essence they have brainwashed you to be loyal to their system or their rule and installed a tribal attitude towards other 'nationalities' and this helps them maintain their power by making us believe we are separate (and also putting racist ideals into the minds of the people) it divides people!

[Mok1993]

1 example... 'the migrant crisis' !!! We get tribal and forget our humanity! They are different, other, not from here, they dont belong. They aren't, theyre human just like you. Dont be tricked by the illusion that nationalism presents to you.

[greenman26]

You cannot be a patriot and a fascist. The constitution is antithetical to fascism. The constitution protects the rights of the individual where Fascism ignores the rights of individuals completely. Do you think we as Americans have a right to vote? Not if any of the fascist regimes of the 20th century had power. The other problem is there are no checks and balances in this sort of system. Saying that fascism can function well is a dangerous idea and completely ignores history.

[Anonymous]

Well thought out. You sir represent the tiny fraction of society who objectively identifies facts and proper associations. Unfortunately, if you posted this on a public social media website you would at best be scoffed at and at worse censored, screamed at and maybe even be called a nazi "sympathizer".

There is only part of your take I vehemently disagree with. Where you said "Nazi promotes German Nationalism and German Ideals (well probably less now but back then yes)."

Less now? Are you familiar with current German laws? It is absolutely NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL in present day Germany. It is illegal to own Nazi memorabilia there. If you did a Nazi salute in public you can be arrested. It is extremely politically incorrect to show any disrespect to Jewish people (similar to how America's public view on black people).

Germany is a very DOCILE country compared to what they were like in the 40s. And yet some morons seem to find German heritage somehow synonymous with nazism.

[oddwaffle]

Fascism: has a giant head as you one and only eternal leader. Dead, alive or incapacitated.

Ex: Lenin, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh... etc

Nationalism: believes everywhere else is worse than your own nation.

Ex: America, China (heading there)

Nazism: believe your race (and country) as the most badass and therefore everyone else should kneel down to their master race.

Ex: PC Master Race, Nazi (obviously).

[jacquesvol]

www.hippoquotes.com/.../...in-patriotism-quote.jpg

statusmind.com/.../...tes-48668-statusmind.com.jpg

[tartaarsaus]

What I might add is that nationalism can be used in a very deplorable way. It has the potential to bring a country together in times of hardship, but just like in World War 2, it has also the potential of destruction when used to mobilize a country's population.

[goaded]

It can also be used to blind people to areas where their country could learn from others.

[Blitzkrieger]

Now read 100 questions about fascism aswered by oswald mosley, the germania by tacitus and about the life of emperor August as well as the prince from nicolo machiavelli and then youl know what you are talking about.

[0112358]

Germany fought most of Europe to a standstill in ww1 without fascism. Fascism didn't make Germany strong. Their work ethic did and it existed both before and after fascism.

[WalterRadio]

The irony in recent events is that the so-called "Antifa" people are actually the ones who are displaying fascist tendencies.

[None11am]

If you read, you'll see the Crusades were called by the Pope in France and started there. They didn't start in England (sorry Asker, off topic discussion with someone else).

[goaded]

It's rude when someone calls you an idiot and blocks you for being right, isn't it.

"Clermont was the starting point of the First Crusade, in which Christendom sought to free Jerusalem from Muslim domination: Pope Urban II preached the crusade there in 1095, at the Second Council of Clermont."

upload.wikimedia.org/.../...artements-2016.svg.png

(My final post on the subject, Asker, I hope you don't mind.)

[None11am]

@goaded Thank you sir

[goaded]

The red dot that was Clermont-Ferrand went missing in the picture. It's more or less dead centre of France. (Sorry again.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clermont-Ferrand

[PunkinPie]

I don't really care because they all end up in the same place.

[Bananaman177]

Yes, just like Democracy and Communism, every political system goes through the same cycle of corruption, degeneracy, and annihilation.

People are not fit to be governed. There is no system that will change this.

[goaded]

@Bananaman177 The US is a damn good try, though. I expect you'll change your constitution again soon, to limit the president's pardon power and keep money out of politics.

If that doesn't happen, we're probably all screwed.

[PunkinPie]

@goaded it's impossible to keep money out of politics. You can't run a political campaign or achieve anything in the government without money.

[goaded]

You can, if every voter gets to decide which party gets their share of the money in the next election. Say each party gets $10 from the government for every person who voted for them in the last one, what happens then? Every government for a hundred years thought it was reasonable to limit donations, why not codify that in the constitution, now you know what happens with unlimited money being spent on advertising?

[Norsie]

I don't get hard at the thought of my country, not anymore in any case. The united states is more of a shell then it ever was.

[disgustingweebtrash]

Brilliant take, this should get 5xper for posting rather than the shit you often see here

[esotericstory]

Well many militaristic societies in modern times such as Prussia were not fascist but autocratic and militaristic.