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No, it does not... That's like saying the Civil Rights Movement removes the agency of and infantilizes people who are being denied their civil rights. I am amazed by how many people on GAG seemed to be so threatened and angry about feminism... There's no need for this...
Mm. Not quite the same. Instead of the Civil Roghts Movement it would be “intersectional feminism” which accounts for race and the like which some people do argue infatilizes racial minorities. I presume you wouldn’t agree with that either, but for the moment let’s stick with these examples. Do you think these examples infantilize women?
The point is that it always seems that members of the OTHER group determining the "infantilizing." It is condescending and disrespectful. It's just a cover for the vitriol against the group in question.
The “grid girls” were women who were outraged that they were losing their jobs because feminists thought it was demeaning. They went on tv and stated that they thought the job empowering.
I’ve also heard several women state they think these examples infantilizing. I’ve also heard black men stating that they think some of the intersectional policies (like affirmative action) to be infantilizing as it treats black men (and women) as though they are not as capable as their white counterparts.
Your examples and many more are explained by the basic principles of cooptation. Certain slaves loved their slave masters and thought everything was fine. Women supporters of Trump ignore his misogyny and call themselves "feminists." That means nothing. The Roman Empire first mastered this technique.
Alrighty, thanks.
You're welcome.
The moment feminism started advocating equality of outcome rather that equality of opportunity is when I lost my respect for it
Now It has achieved way more than it can chew on and needs putting down
yes. it started doing that after establishing equal rights and it realized there's nothing left to do.
That Louis c. k. thing is VERY creepy though , I would not like to see someones genitals. That is most definitely sexual harassment.
That being said feminism in this day and age is going too far and focusing on the wrong issues.
Well sure if he didn’t have consent it would most certainly be harassment, but he had consent.
If he had *true* consent, these women would not have stepped forward because they wouldn't have felt harassed. Consent also needs to be put in the context of power dynamics. A student saying yes to their teacher doing something inappropriate with them doesn't mean automatic consent; what if the student is scared of the fact that saying no will affect their grade? The one in the position of power has a certain amount of responsibility. Louis had power over these women because they admired him and his work, and they were in communities where people looked up to him. Therefore it put a certain amount of pressure on them to comply, and to then keep quiet about it. Because who could they turn to to talk about the fact that someone they had considered an icon, did something like that to them? If even Louis himself could understand the problematic situation he put these women in, so should you.
@lumos oh see that’s not something I agree with. I do actually think that’s demeaning to women. Whether or not I admire someone is not a compelling reason for me to sleep with them. I’ve had a very close friend and person I respect ask me to have sex with them. I had no problem saying no.
Your example I think should be obviously demeaning to women too though. You equate women to children being pressured by their teacher to have sex with them...
Congrats @ still not getting the point. The fact that you could say no doesn’t mean everyone else can. Power intimidates some people you know. And if you’re star struck it might be hard to say no because you don’t want to think they’re like that, you don’t want to disappoint them, you don’t want them to use their power against you if they’re not happy with you saying no etc etc etc. Not to mention that he, as a man, by default is bigger and stronger than a lot of women.
Like I said, Louis himself has enough self-awareness to understand that he put these women in a really problematic, unfair and uncomfortable situation. He himself understood that, despite them maybe saying yes, it didn’t necessarily mean they wanted it or that the situation was ok. I’m not equating women to being children. I’m just saying that the world isn’t as black and white as you think and that these things are very complicated. There are many aspects that *have* to be taken into consideration.
@lumos ok then. I still don’t see it, being star struck is such a strange reason to be incapable of giving consent. If you do think that celebrities can’t ask women if they want to have sex because women can’t give consent in that scenario then more power to you, thanks for your input.
Why are you still being so black and white? I'm just saying that many aspects need to be taken into account and consideration - not that a different power dynamic ALWAYS results in something like this where one person feels pressured by the other. Maybe there were even more women he did this with who didn't care and even enjoyed it, who knows? But the fact of the matter is that celebrities like him (man or woman, doesn't matter) very much should take their own status into account before putting someone in a situation like that. Just like a big age gap can change the dynamic, and not even necessarily just when minors are involved. This is not just about women either, men can also be pressured in similar ways and end up "consenting" to things they actually don't want to do.
@lumos I think adults are capable of making their own decisions and that at the end of the day they alone are responsible for them. I agree that men and women should be treated the same. If you think that female comedians couldn’t ask other adults for sex because it’s possible that one of these adults wouldn’t be able to properly give consent because they admired/ liked the comedian then while I disagree with you, your position is at least consistent.
I’m still not saying it’s not possible to ask for sex of someone when you’re in a position of power. I’m just saying that you need to recognize that your power MIGHT influence the answer of the other person and therefore you have to be careful. Jesus.
@lumos I still don’t understand. So they should recognize that they can’t properly attain consent, but they can do it anyway? I’m sorry I’m just really not understanding your position here.
They should recognize that they cannot with certainty attain proper consent in *all* situations, especially when the power dynamic is off. Therefore they should be more careful, take it slower, make sure the other one is really sure that they want to do it, maybe even have a proper discussion about it and let the other person think things through. It might not be very sexy but that's the sort of responsibility you should be able to face when you're in a position of power.
@lumos lol have you ever seen this sex contract video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-gu6s0eGOk that seems like the best idea honestly 😂
A lawyer should always be present to ensure consent
Common sense should be enough but I guess it’s not as common 🤔
@lumos exactly.
Feminism used to be all about giving women choices, not taking them away. Feminists are going backwards now.
Feminism is one giant pile of hate, lies, and crazy..
Takes Olympic, gold medal level mental gymnastics to be a Feminist.
Good Take, I think it does, also saying that they can't handle things themselves.
It’s a question
Those who infantilize women are not feminists, they are feminazis.
Mm so you’re saying that the fringe elements of feminism (feminazis) are in fact infantilizing women, but the majority of feminists and feminist organizations are not. Is that correct?
No, I'm saying that feminazis are not elements of feminism. Feminist support equality of genders, while feminazis are female supremacists.
Feminazis falsely call themselves "feminists", but they don't believe in the ideals of feminism.
Meh. No group is separate from those who make it up are they?
Feminazis didn't make feminism, they joined later, hijacked the name, and ruined the reputation of the noble movement.
“From those who make it up” not those who made it. Groups change over time
Groups may change, but not the ideals - feminazis don't believe in the ideal of feminism, therefore - they are falsely calling themselves "feminists".
Alrighty, thanks
You're welcome.
This is a very perceptive take. I agree with your thesis. Well done.
Feminism destroys white societies. Which is why it was invented.
Nice take, very interesting
It’s a question
Nice mytake. interesting read
It’s a question
Yes they hender more than help
Yes they sure do
This was fun reading
It’s a question
I ment like people’s opinions my bad I should’ve been more specific
Mm. Makes sense. What’s your opinion?
Why are you harassing everyone about it being a question? Lol Jesus maybe some people just read it and wanted to tell you hey great food for thought.
@brea56 “fun read” “interesting read” etc aren’t telling me their opinion. My presumption is that most didn’t read or else they’d say something like “I do think those examples show that trend” or “I don’t think those examples show any trend”
Or something similar. People are welcome to not answer if they don’t want, but my whole point in posting was to learn about others positions, so I re-ask. If they don’t want to respond then they don’t.
Nice mytake
It’s a question as pointed out in the first sentence
feminist is cancer
Of course it does.
Very nice take
Nice take