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Why do folks at GaG think the abortion debate is simply about choice vs life? (Page 2)
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Sht like this is why. stupid people with a platform can say whatever they want. People who know what they're talking about get banned, throttled, mocked, and dismissed. Its designed to work this way.
Abortions are a complicated topic but all these old white men I see debating it on TV seem to know everything there is to know 🙄
Like Biden?
Biden hasn't been debating it
He does not know anything anymore
He stands with women's rights
Biden says what they tell him to say. Biden is a creepy weirdo. If I had little girls they would not be near him
Biden creeps on every woman there is
Do you know him personally?
I can't answer that question.
@Whatever2929292 Nothing you are saying makes any sense. Her point was let women make choices for themselves. I disagree with the reasoning, but I do agree with her position. For me it is about something much more fundamental. The freedoms and rights that we are supposed to have as citizens of the U. S.
@Whatever2929292 Trump had close ties with Epstien
So did Clinton, Prince Andrew, Alan Dershowitz, and dozens of other stars, politicians and businessmen. But partisans only want justice for the members of the other party.
most of them super creepy...
If your going to be agest racist and sexist, while claiming the right to kill other people why do you expect better of anyone else?
@monorprise I just wanted to respond on her behalf. To pretend that a vast majority of men know what it is like to become pregnant, to have a miscarriage, and all of the problems that come with carrying a fetus, is simply not a rational view. That's why any conversation, leaving out women, especially women who have been pregnant is disingenuous.
Abortion seems to be purely based on how you were raised. If you were taught to take responsibility for your actions and choices its very likely you wouldn't think of abortion as even necessary or needed. Abortion for the reason of poverty is purely the governments or economies fault as they could easily have a system that stops poverty from happening at all. In the end the abortion debate goes down to causes and how a person was raised. Someone who never learned to take responsibility and still acts and thinks like a child will never want a baby no mater what gender the person is. Sometimes a baby is a wake up call for the person to finally drop that childish mentality. And Children are natures retirement plan for humanity, without the homes for the elderly everyone would need to have children. So childless people are only possible in a fabricated society and usually not natural.
@RolandCuthbert I think your statement is spot on. The only people who should have choices about individual cases of pregnancy are the woman and her doctor because it IS so complex. Ectopic pregnancies, or miscarriages or any other concern that the woman OR the doctor may have should be between them and only them. The heart of the Roe decision was the PRIVACY between a woman and her doctor. Other issues of privacy will now be vulnerable, such as the right to marry whom ever you love. What sexual acts are legal and with whom. Judge Thomas has gone so far as to say that they should go after contraception.
All of the medical arguments made by anyone other than a doctor should be moot because the doctor as the expert, and the woman as the effected person are UNIQUELY qualified to make the best decision for her circumstance. The thing we must fight is this intrusion on THEIR privacy.
Wow…super informative and great perspective. Thank you.
Assuming it is true, what you wrote is interesting. However, are you just making a statement or did you a question?
You have to post in the form of a question in order to start the thread.
But yeah, why do most people think the debate is choice vs life, when that is not the legal argument for or against abortion.
In fact, the Supreme Court never even considered the morality of abortion. You can listen to the arguments online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6t3lhFHi_Q
Thank you for the link.
trying to explain to a right winger the difference between an embryo and a baby would be like trying to explain to a flat earther the difference between Pseudoscience and real science
"The actual legal argument *against* Roe was made on the basis of privacy."
You mean FOR the decision, but otherwise well taken.
True. But thinking is tough.
It’s harder to consider the complexities of bodily autonomy and how this Roe ruling could make it easier for forced vaxxes.
They opened this bottle. And all hell is coming out. They thought they could just direct it at women. But as you mentioned mandates for vaccines are possible now. Loving vs Virginia can be overturned and sent back to the states. Gay marriage, contraceptives, etc.
I never understood why “states rights” were so important. 50 individual set of laws vs one set.
I mean, it is still a great concept. The problem is the way the Constitution has been misinterpreted. So Biden could ask Congress to expand the court. He could pass laws quickly before the elections.
They may have enough votes for making Roe vs Wade law. Murkowski and Collins are open to it.
Roland, Biden won't get anything passed through the senate until and unless the 60 vote filibuster threshold is done away with. Republicans are too much in lockstep with their leadership, whatever we might think of that leadership, to permit 10 votes to go to a Democratic proposal that isn't so watered down and toothless as to be laughable. At best, he has until the midterms to act on this. The most likely outcome of the midterms is one or both houses of congress turning red at which point Biden will become a lame duck president.
@sgd509 Well, he actually can. Because if Murkowski and Collins are open to passing abortion legislation, that would break the filibuster. He wouldn't need a 60 person threshold, since we know that Manchin and Sinema refuse to agree.
Because that is how it has always been framed by advocates on both sides of the issue, and of course by the media.
Yeah, I gotta admit. . . the media talks about my body my choice an awful lot.
I asked a woman in this thread about her rights to seek consul from a doctor.
She didn't have a clue about what I was asking.
We need to break the monopoly (or duopoly) the two main parties have in this country.
But this has nothing to do with political parties. Anyone can google search the oral arguments for Roe V Wade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6t3lhFHi_Q&t=377s
Because abortion is part of the Bible and the Founding Fathers admitted God helped them build this country.
Abortion is mentioned in the Bible?
yep, life begins at conception
You didn't answer the question. Have you ever read the Bible before?
I know the Book rather well.
Yeah I have, you're just an I-dee-it
Really? But you can''t name one Bible passage addressing abortion.
You are a liar and a troll.
Google it
even if it wasn't in the Bible it's still killing a fetus
You are confused, uneducated, and ignorant.
Learn to have a little bit of shame. Because that might force you to read a book or something.
I would LOVE to see you and Iron_Man make a great couple in extremist heaven, one far left and one far right
Yes, as in when God kills the first-born of the Egyptians. So obviously he is OK with abortion. Even post-natal.
@zagor He doesn't know what is in the Bible. He just assumes "Bible" stuff agrees with him. It is weird how their version of Christianity isn't about Christ at all. It is about their politics.
PROTIP: The second you post handmaids tale garbage, you lose all credibility.
Internet trolls can't grant anyone credibility.
So I am not too worried that you are upset.
Lol, I didn’t grant anything, you proved you’re a simpleton.
Dude, you just told me I lost credibility.
I lost credibility with a silly lonely little incel internet troll.
Maybe that isn't all that impressive.
Ooh, you went for the incel insult? Dope.
Yes. Because this place is full of you guys. Lonely, pitiful, mad because you can't get any sex.
Dude, we need to make prostitution legal. Because if you get your rocks off you will feel a whole lot better.
lol, clown.
Well, continue to play whack-a-mole.
I was just trying to help you out.
And you continue to be a clown.
And you continue to be a loser pathetic incel.
Get a whore dude.
Work it out.
Aww, sorry clown all I hear is your honking.
Haha! All I hear is whacking.
Honk honk
OH, you mean. . ."whack, whack".
You’re uncomfortably concerned about my penis. Are you gay?
Yes I am. And big daddy will pound you into submission. But I promise to bring you flowers and take you out to dinner afterwards.
You have to understand that most of these gag users are below the age of 30, Their brain is still developing
i don't know man, i am pro death when i see ya i kill ya simple
The whole reason that's even become a thing Ia because someone needs the country distracted
Well, having someone other than doctor decide whether or not you can have a procedure that could save your life is a bit distracting.
As is being denied contraception when it could be prescribed to stop you from bleeding to death.
my.clevelandclinic.org/.../17734-menorrhagia-heavy-menstrual-bleeding
Is heavy menstrual bleeding serious?
Heavy menstrual bleeding can be serious if you lose so much blood that you show signs of anemia. Anemia is a condition arising from having too little iron in your body. Anemia can be life-threatening without treatment.
Also, some of the conditions that can cause heavy period bleeding, like cancer, require early medical intervention. Speak with your healthcare provider to discuss any risks related to your period bleeding.
Look how distracted people are with it... the more everyone pays attention to this the less the say hey wait a minute they are sending what to Ukraine?
Why would "we" care about what we are sending to Ukraine, when they are defending their nation from invasion? It is actually one of the few solid foreign policy decisions we have made in the last 30 years.
Where were you when we spent 2 trillion in Iraq?
Sitting there pissed off at how bad they were fucking Tommy Chong over... they do that shit in prison also.. keep it separated on race so inmates will fight among themselves I stead of going after the cops.. they eUkraine was just an example.. I don't know what but there's something...
Dude, I am not sure you know which conspiracy you believe in. But Russia invaded Ukraine a decade ago. They annexed territory a decade ago. Before that they invaded Georgia and annexed territory.
It is called a "pattern".
Why punish all American women because she was a serial liar?
I dunno. But it seems some folks accept "group punishment".
Weird.
Weird? Try unfair
Well, you didn't read what I said.
"Some folks accept that their group should be punished based upon the actions of an individual".
That's weird.
I think there is more to it
Well, thanks for explaining all that more that is too it.
Appreciate it.
It’s about affordable healthcare; it’s about so much
What does affordable healthcare have to do with you being pregnant, then being concerned that you might not live delivering your baby?
Tbh I’m Toren on this because of my beliefs but I don’t want people to be forced into things they know they aren’t ready for or what about rape. Should women that are raped be forced to carry a child by their rapist and be reminded of what happened. Tbh I’m so Toren and broken up about this
But should a woman that is raped and becomes pregnant because of that be forced to carry a child she didn’t consent to. What about the woman that is told that she will die if she carries her child to term. I’m so torn up about this ; the only thing that bothers me is those that sleep around then get pregnant and don’t want the kid ( you should
Keep it closed if you don’t want that. ) why don’t men get a vasectomy until they have a stable
Job and are more mature and responsible
This is not even about rape. If you were pregnant and you had concerns that the pregnancy was having issues, would you want to talk to a doctor for advice? Or be told what to do by a board of politicians?
I am really curious about what you think you should be allowed to do.
What if you did talk to your doctor and explore everything possible and not of it worked?
My question is pretty basic. Why can't you answer a simple question about your own life and your own rights?
Shouldn’t be your choice to abort a pregnancy and take the consequences that come from choosing to do so?
Shouldn’t it be your choice
Shouldn’t it be your right to choose an abortion and to take the consequences that come from doing so? I think so many have an issue with this because you don’t see mens health being so controlled in the government
So I take it you would not want the choice taken from you. Because the choice is not about you having an abortion.
It is about you talking to your doctor and following his recommendations. Because many women who abort, still want to have a child. But there is a risk to carrying the baby to term.
Over a 100,000 abortions a year are because of medical complications or because the life of the mother is threatened.
I think it’s also not forcing your beliefs on others you can disagree and still be kind
Just because i believe one way doesn’t mean I should force others to believe the same. Just cause it works for me doesn't mean it works for someone else
So I was wrong, you mislead me. You keep talking about your choice, but won't answer my question.
Wow!
Having an abortion because your life could be at risk is laughable. Just make a Cesarian cut when its save for the baby to live outside and have it put into one of those boxes they put early born children in.
So what are we supposed to be talking about?
The legal argument is about the Constitution and what the Constitution says with respect to "abortion", "fetuses", and who as rights to life and privacy.
All you have to do is find the youtube video that has the oral arguments for Roe V Wade.
I've just ctrl-F'ed the Constitution and it doesn't have the words "abortion" or "fetuses" in there anywhere. Come to think of it, that may have been part of the problem. . .
Well, back in 1787, there weren't any abortions. No one had any experts on fetuses. They weren't any AR-15s or assault rifles. Interracial marriage was not permitted. Gays didn't have rights.
The document is old. And we need an easier way to amend it and update it.
But then the freaks who chant "right to life" wouldn't be able to control women's bodies using a document that is almost 250 years old.
Well the Constitution also doesn't say you can't have an abortion. It says nothing at all about abortion. Which I'm pretty sure means it's up to the states to decide. Alternatively Congress could pass a national law. Or Congress and the states could amend the Constitution to regulate abortion however the amendment specifies.
But that's the point. Did you read Alito's opinion? He said because the word "abortion" is not in the Constitution, "abortions" cannot be made legal at the federal level.
The ruling is all kinds of wrong.
But I just think you should read the opinion he gave for justifying the ruling. You can skip to the "opinion of the court".
www.supremecourt.gov/.../19-1392_6j37.pdf
Yes, Congress could pass national legislation. It is unlikely the court would claim it is unconstitutional. But no one can be sure. The court is kind of sideways at this point. The other thing is to expand the court next election. But Biden would need more Senate seats.
It's about white births nothing more nothing less.
True that. It is really about making "White" women have more children. Because racists are concerned that they are being "replaced".
That lady literally admired it on stage with trump lol. Then she said misspoke