The Last Abortion and "Pro-Life is a Stupid Stance" Argument I Feel Like Having

[MCheetah]

This was originally meant to be a single response to a new GAG user's implication that Pro-Choice people are "selfish or callous." Nothing pisses me off more than stupidity, so this simple post ballooned into a post too long to respond to. Hence, this MyTake here, which is effectively my response to this. I also commented about this five months ago.

Now I have a lot of right-leaning associates here on GAG. If you are strongly conservative, I suggest you NOT read this MyTake, because I frankly hate the anti-abortion argument. It's like the dumbest shit ever, and I really struggle to be polite about it. I had to cut down 12 F-bombs to 6. You very likely WILL be offended by it if you are strongly conservative, so this is your official Trigger Warning.

With that said, here it goes.

I really don't feel like getting into this retarded "pro-choice is murder" argument made with retarded logic, but the most dumbed-down explanation I can give for this involves food:

Fried eggs aren't the same thing as chicken wings.
Dough, cheese, and sauce doesn't make a pizza.
And a living pig doesn't make pork chops.

A six week old embryo is NOT a fully developed human being. THAT is why, some people can approve of abortion. It's not "murder" and only a mental midget would think otherwise.

You know; like how jerking off into a sock isn't murder, or fucking every woman in sight with a condom on isn't murder; but you'd be hard-pressed to find a pro-life person who abstains from sex only with the intent to make children. Ironically, most pro-life people LOVE sleeping with women just for fun, despite it going against their code.

Now I'm not mad about this issue. I'm pro-choice, but don't really care much about abortion either way. As I've explained before, we have billions of people on this planet we can't currently take care of, and like others have mentioned, almost all pro-life people don't give a flying fuck about a child AFTER its born, including paying more taxes and supporting more government programs to ensure that child grows up healthy and happy.

If you really WERE "pro life," it would extend beyond some shitty argument that abortion is "baby murder." And you'd actually care for children AFTER they were born, instead of just trying to control people's bodies like the same "libtards" you all claim to be so against. Cause vax mandates are bad, but not forcing unfit mothers to raise children they don't want and don't love, right?

So no. Someone being "pro life" doesn't annoy me...

It's the absolute stupidity COMBINED with the hypocrisy I pointed out, that pisses me off on this issue. If people actually give a shit about the lives of random, unborn children, then put your money where your fucking mouth is, and support taxes and programs to help these mothers actually raise these children so they don't end up another school shooter or serial rapist or something.

Or at the very least, don't have recreational sex, which completely makes you out to be a hypocrite, as condoms are just another form of abortion and it goes entirely against your beliefs of not wanting to avoid the "natural process" of human reproduction. As if condoms don't do that.

And if you can't actually support your beliefs with ACTIONS rather than some stupid shit about what your fictional imaginary friend "God" wants, and you still engage in sex with women without the intent of creating life...

Then shut the FUCK up and worry about your own fucking lives.

Now, I'm not the smartest person on GAG. But I'm not holding my breath anyone on this site is intelligent enough to argue against the hypocrisy that is the religious, right-leaning pro-life argument. You are not pro-life if you don't life a fucking finger or pay a cent to help out these random mothers you don't give a shit about, but want to control the lives and bodies of, anyway. You are merely anti-abortion and no one gives a shit. Again, worry about your own life and stop "acting like a libtard." You all annoy me just for making me even side with a left-wing issue like this.

It isn't anymore "selfish or callous" to not confuse scrambled eggs with a bucket of fried chicken. Or pizza dough with a hot and fresh pepperoni pie. The true "selfish and callous" thing is speak empty platitudes of being "a good Christian" and pretending to care about unborn children as a pro-life advocate, while laughing at single mothers as whores and sluts for raising children by themselves that YOU told them they had to, "cause God" or some retarded nonsense. You probably don't even raise your own damn kids properly to be telling other people how to raise your own.

TL;DR:
The world is overpopulated, existing people are already suffering, and you don't actually lift a finger to actually help these children you claim to care about post-birth, so stop trying to tell other people how to be parents if you can't do anything more than bitch on the internet about their decisions to engage in the lifelong responsibility of parenthood or not.

[Stoner710]

First off abortion is murder, life begins at conception, if I’m going to finacels hard ship I don’t have to right to rob the local convent store and murder the clerk for money, just like you don’t have the right to kill an unborn child, If you don’t want to have a kid don’t have sex it’s really that simple, I’ve done this for years I’ve had many girlfriends whom I didn’t sleep with because we aren’t married and Either of us wanted a kid so we abstain from having sex. (Ironically your right about the religious morons who don’t hold the same standard I hold and I’m agnostic). If abortion isn’t murder why when a drunk driver kills a pregnant mother and her child we charge the person with 2 homicides instead of 1. If we’re looking at the point of viability why isn’t infanticide ok? A child isn’t viable to live on its own out side the womb until he can get a job, why can’t we kill a 5 year old? Why can’t we kill a 80 year old on life support? A life is a like and you don’t have the right to take that life, with the only exception is if it’s going to kill you, most of the time child birth isn’t going to kill the mother. Also the child is a separate being from the mother, it’s a different life it has a different body a mother doesn’t have a penis if she’s pregnant with a boy and she doesn’t have 2 vagina if she’s pregnant with a girl. Therefore you have to look and the child growing inside the mother as another life.

As far and the taxes goes sure I’d be willing to pay more taxes on the local and state level if that means we would be able to find the kids a home or support the single mother, however government should be the last thing she or both parents turns to they should rely on there family friends and local community to help, this is why we say it takes a village to raise a child, The last thing anyone should rely on is the government but if you need it government can help, (should never be on the federal level but city county and state should help this is the idea of federalism).

As you can tell I’m supper pro life and I’m not Christian, and I make sure I’m not having kids until I’m ready to have kids, also I do help take care of forester kids once a month especially since I was a foster kid and was abused heavily it’s better to be alive then dead

[MCheetah]

I really don't feel like having an argument to what equates to another person's morality-based opinions that they will not budge on, but I feel like I owe you some kind of response, so I'll try to keep it brief.

"abortion is murder, life begins at conception"
Purely an opinion.

"just like you don’t have the right to kill an unborn child"
Disingenuous inaccurate comparison.

" If you don’t want to have a kid don’t have sex it’s really that simple"
Or... You can just wear condoms and practice safe sex. However, if you DO, then don't claim to be "pro-life" because condoms in themselves are preventing the natural course of human reproduction from happening, aka "abortion." Since I am pro-choice, I have no problem with safe sex. However, the hypocrisy comes from those who are pro-life but still sleep with women "just for fun."

"I’ve done this for years... [neither] of us wanted a kid so we abstain from having sex."
At least you put your money where your mouth is, so I can give you respect for that. Unlike most hypocritical pro-life people out there.

"If abortion isn’t murder"
If it was murder, it'd be illegal. It's that simple. Your real argument is "abortion is killing a human life." Which is not simple, because the point of contention is when does an embryo become a human being. For those who are pro-choice, it'd likely be somewhere between the third trimester and birth. For pro-life people, it's "at conception." Yet IRONICALLY, they'll not think of sperm as "human life" despite it actually being an autonomous life form. So the capacity to distinguish sperm from an egg is capable, but not the capacity to distinguish an embryo from a fully formed human baby developed enough to C-section out of the womb? Can you understand how this is illogical and makes no sense to a non pro-life person?

[MCheetah]

"why can't we..."
All of those are different laws, governed by different states/countries, and it's disingenuous to try to lump them all together into the pro-life argument. In short, not all of these are true or accurate. They usually only apply if a state is either pro-life or if the child is ALREADY born and outside the womb.

"A life is a [life] and you don’t have the right to take that life"
Opinion. Soldiers, police, and judges take lives all the time. Yet I bet you'd be willing to support the US troops taking the life of an invading force over letting China kick the US' ass. Or maybe not; I shouldn't assume. If "a life is a life," are you also a vegan and avoid killing things like bugs that enter your home or single-celled organisms that crawl around on your hands? I know you meant "a human life is sacred" or something along those lines, but again, are you also against this same rule when it comes to US military, judges giving the death penalty, or even police chasing down armed criminals and terrorists? And yes, I know you think some embryo is "more innocent" than a criminal. Again, that's morality, and it's always going to be subjective opinion, though.
Like most things, it's not that simple as "a life is a life."

[MCheetah]

"Therefore you have to look and the child growing inside the mother as another life."
The abortion debate isn't debating whether it's a life or not. It's debating when does it become a fully formed human life. I already stated this in my MyTake. "When do eggs turn into chicken wings?" Cause according to pro-life logic, eggs and chicken wings are the EXACT SAME THING. To people who aren't pro-life, eventually a chicken egg becomes a chicken, and a chicken is made up of different parts than a chicken egg. Or "when does dough and sauce become an edible pizza?" The same but more complicated logic applies to pro-choice people. That's why I used it. To simplify how an embryo or fetus isn't the same thing (to pro-choice people) as a fully developed baby in its third-trimester or birth.

"As far and the taxes goes sure I’d be willing to pay more taxes... however government should be the last thing she or both parents turns to they should rely on... it takes a village to raise a child."
Again, I give you more respect than most pro-choice people out there, who think they should have the right to control what women become mothers or not, then leave them out to dry once the baby is born. Or will whine ad bitch about why they shouldn't have to actually HELP SUPPORT the same baby they're claiming "is sacred" and shouldn't be aborted. You seem to do more than 90% of the pro-life people I've seen on this site and IRL. I'd respect the argument a lot more if they had your level of consistency.

[MCheetah]

Ultimately, like I said, the point of contention has always been "when does a human being begin between the sperm and birth?" The only real disagreement between pro-life and pro-choice people is when that sperm becomes a human. And not everyone thinks of the opinion "life begins at conception." I myself personally think abortions shouldn't happen past the second trimester. At that point, a woman has had six months to decide whether to get an abortion or not. And the baby can be C-sectioned out of the mother by 6 or 7 months. So I DON'T support third-trimester abortions. But when it's still an embryo or fetus? Sure. I'm not even getting into the whole "is it a human life" thing; my major points like I said above, is there's enough suffering and abuse in the world with the people who HAVE been born, and we don't need anymore unloved human beings coming into this already-awful world developing mental problems and turning into psychopaths because their parents clearly never loved them and never wanted them born. I think the humane thing is to spare someone a lifetime of abuse and neglect, rather than to put that through them, when the person arguing for it won't even give a damn about that person once born. That is why I am not pro-life. We got enough living people in this world as it is who need love and support. Adding more unloved, unsupported, mentally damaged people into the world is not something I want to see.

[MCheetah]

(Correction)
Again, I give you more respect than most *pro-life people out there,

[Stoner710]

There’s a lot to get into here man it’s currently 3:24am so I’ll only hit on a few for now,

The most important thing to address here is the question of when life begins, I believe it begins at conception, If it further down the road like say when the heart starts beating abortion would be murder (normally at 10 weeks by the time that happens the mother is just starting to think she is pregnant). So if life starts to the heart beat then abortion above 2 months would be murder. Since we don’t know when life officially begins it’s better to start from the beginning and go from there.

As far as birth control goes I’m in all support of birth control, it’s better to prevent a child from happening then to kill it, even when I was pro choice the women and I whom I had sexual with made sure that we didn’t have a child and if we did have a child which wasn’t likely since we used condoms and the pill. But since I’ve turned more conservatives I won’t have sex until I’m ready to have kids (again I’m one of those rare conservatives that’s isn’t Christian I was raised Christian so that still have influence of course).

Now spend Id 1 half of human life it’s clearly not a full fledged human. By that logic women having periods would be killing a life. There for as soon as a women reaches publicity she should be forced to have as many kids as she can’t so she isn’t killing that life (the other half on a human sperm and egg) obviously we aren’t going to do that.

[Stoner710]

War of course Is horribly and the people who start the war should suffer the consequences once you take a a human your life is forfeit. As far as insects Mice etc I wouldn’t kill them especially since I have no desire to eat them there’s an old Iroquois tradition wheee they would thank the animals sprite for giving it’s life so that we may life so killing animals senselessly is immoral as well. Like the lion and wolf we are ment to hunt and stock our pray rather then raise them for slaughter hence why the meat I eat I kill myself

And yes you can have a bunch of mental issues and physical issues they may become a psychopath but you don’t know the faith of that child therefore until they have become a murderer you do not have a right to kill him, there a lot to the subject but I’m tired it’s now 3:43am and I’m at 3% so I’ma leave it there for now

[MCheetah]

"I believe it begins at conception, If it further down the road like say when the heart starts beating abortion would be murder"
You are 100% entitled to your opinions, as I am. But that's all it is, an opinion. There is no medically definition as to "when human life begins." As for the murder part, that too is an opinion and not actual law. It quite literally ISN'T "murder." To claim so is to apply emotional and morality baggage onto an argument that has none. As in, using emotion to win an argument based on facts.

"Since we don’t know when life officially begins it’s better to start from the beginning and go from there."
This makes no sense. "We don't know when life begins, but let's just go with whatever I say, anyway." If it was that simple, there wouldn't be 20+ year old abortion debate still going on right now. And no, I don't agree with those terms.

"As far as birth control goes I’m in all support of birth control,"
Well many (if not most) pro-life people are not in favor of female birth control at all (contraceptives and pills), though oddly seem to support condoms. In either case, abortions IS birth control, to pro-choice people. Just not to pro-life people.

Another point I really didn't stress on: If women are too dumb to handle proper birth control and contraceptives, do you really think they're capable of being fit mothers for the rest of their lives, and taking care of a fragile infant child? This is something else that never made much sense to me. So many pro-life people harp on the "don't have sex if you don't want kids" argument, implying these women are stupid if they can't even understand that, but then expect them to be decent capable mothers who won't accidentally kill their children, as well? Like, what? Is abortion really worse than negligent infanticide to these people?

[MCheetah]

"By that logic women having periods would be killing a life. ... Obviously we aren’t going to do that."
So you understand the flawed logic in the pro-life argument then, right? So you'd be willing to make compromises in that, right? Like how pro-choice people can in not aborting after the second trimester of pregnancy? I mean, is that not fair? I already said I myself am against third trimester abortions because the baby could be C-sectioned and live healthily at that point, while it can't survive out of the womb under six months.

"once you take a a human your life is forfeit."
So you're saying that 'murder' is okay once if the target has already killed someone? That would be a flaw in the pro-life argument then that "all human life is sacred." I know you are more nuanced in it, but many others (if not most) are not. That's why I say they have hypocritical views on this issue. They'd probably agree with you about the "eye for an eye" view on taking life.

"hence why the meat I eat I kill myself"
Well again, you're more nuanced than most pro-lifers I've met. Thank you.

"but you don’t know the faith of that child therefore until they have become a murderer"
You are technically right, but if we have kids in foster care right now who can barely find foster parents and we have PLENTY of biological parents right now who treat their children like shit, what hope would you have for a mother the government forced into raising a child she never wanted and would happily "murder" as the pro-life side might say? What are the chances of a "murderer" being a good mother to a child? I don't have all the answers for this one; I'm just going by statistical likelihoods plus the real people we have right now who suffer, with better backgrounds in entering this world. The chances for a happy childhood seem less favorable then favorable, in my opinion.

[Stoner710]

I’m going to address the last fine first, “ we have PLENTY of biological parents right now who treat their children like shit,”. Your not wrong there my biological mother was shit she would lock me my car in 105° Force me to sleep outside with dogs wouldn’t feed me would bite me and hit me when I was crying for food, trust me I known a shitty parent, I went through the Forster care system myself, I would still rather be alive today then dead before I could even see the sun without my mothers belly in the way. (Unborn human normally start seeing around 4 months and hearing shortly after that). We have gay couples that can adopt and many many couples that want to adopt unfortunately the adoption process has gotten more and more discriminatory against religious pants and won’t let Catholic adopt and the left like to openly try to get Catholic adoption agencies shut down for being Catholic,

Now I know your in South Korea (last time I check) we have the most liberal abortion laws in the United States compared to the rest of the world, not even Europeans will allow for partial birth abortion like D. C virgins Colorado California my state of Washington and other left wing states. We’re talking abortion up to 9 months.

As far as the capital punishment versus abortion issue, And like I said once you take a life your life is forfeit, Obviously of course I’m talking human life, an unborn child has never killed anyone they haven’t stollen form anyone nor have they committed a crime, they are a natural product of sexual intercourse which can be prevented, So since the child hasn’t committed a crime especially one has hence as murder you don’t have the right to kill that person. It’s not murder to execute a murder it’s justice an eye for an eye.

[Stoner710]

As far as SCOTUS argument on liability well the child isn’t viable to live by itself even outside the womb until they’re at least 14 because of child labor laws the reality is 16, it’s not a specifically defined term therefore if a womens 2 year old is pissing her off she would logically have the right to kill her 2 year old which of course no one would go for so they arbitrarily use 6 months as the cut off so why not 5 months or 3 month or 2 years or 5 years the pro choice movements logic falls apart then you take it to its logical conclusion, No the decision of the Spring court which was reasonally late like yesterday around the time I was writing this actually scotus has agreed to strike down Roe v. Wade know what this does is it just brings the issue back to the states so regardless if I think abortion should be illegal and frankly I would make it an executable event both for the woman and the person performing the abortion. The decision whether or not abortion should remain legal will be left up to the individual states some will make the cut off point at six months some 9 other will make abortion 100% illegal some might even take my view point in abortion is essentially first three murder and as a result the people involved or executed themselves

Now of course the birth control sperm is alive argument nobody takes seriously if the sperm and the egg isn’t used (sperm last only 7 days even in the man’s body) which makes that point invalid.

Of course the fundamental question to all of this is the auction of “when does life begins” since we can’t come up with a definitive answer to this it’s best to take the extreme approach and say life begins at conception

[MCheetah]

Well, the TL;DR of all of what you said is, "In my opinion and sense of morality, this is how it should go." Which like I said before, it is fine you have your opinions and all. But your morality and opinions should not dictate law, and if we really want to get logical here, the most intelligent and non-emotional stance would be to support abortions for those who want them, and not support them for those who don't. As in, how things ALREADY were. The laws were fine as they were.

If it all goes back to the states, then that wouldn't be the worst thing for abortion, but it would lead the US to becoming more and more fractured and divided. All over subjective morality. And frankly, I don't understand your "kill all the bad guys in cold blood, but protect all the unborn embryos cause they're innocent" logic. I mean, I guess I don't have to; it is based on subjective morality, after all.

I'm not emotionally invested in the abortion issue, as I said, but hypocrisy and taking away people's rights does piss me off majorly. Conservatives celebrating the loss of Constitutional rights as a "win" also pisses me off in their hypocrisy. Outlawing the second amendment would "save a lot of lives too" but I'm guessing none of them want their guns taken away either (not that I am against the second amendment myself).

The TL;DR is, the US Constitutional should not be torn into shreds based on subjective morality and bullshit about what people THINK is "good and ethnical."

That is LITERALLY how we got woke culture and men competing in women's sports. The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions and some dumb morality-based bullshit about "not murdering babies" is NOT going to be good for America in the long run. Most laws Americans will lose will be lost based on "morality" and "this is what's good for you."

[MCheetah]

The TL;DR is, the US *Constitution should not be torn into shreds based on subjective morality and bullshit about what people THINK is "good and *ethical."

[Stoner710]

So the constitution never actually gave the right for a women to abortion her child. During the time of the 14th amendment (1868). The never idea of a women killing an unborn baby would have been abhorrent and frankly they would have executed the women who did get an abortion. It was made of hole cloth. If roe is struck down it simply goes back to the states to decide. So it is a victory for the pro-life movement so now people in the 50 states will just vote on how far they want there abortion laws to go weather in the pro-life or pro-abortion direction. Many states have already taken steps in this direction.

As far as fracturing of the United States it’s actually better long term for states to governor the way there voters want them to governor rather then a crack down on from the federal government, Short term yes your correct it will fracture the country even more but we can’t even agree with what a women is, so our country is fucked anyway.

As far as morality is considered this is when we do need to explore the idea of God, If go doesn’t exist there is no morality it’s as you say subjective, this is when we get into the ground of moral relativeism. If god does exist then then morality is subject to opinion there is only 1 true morality and we as human need to best reflect the morality of god. If god doesn’t exist abortion is ok is go exist I doubt he would say it’s moral for a women to abort there child under any circumstance. And remember all governments are formed is some sort of religious beliefs regardless if the government it’s self is secular or religious. The United States was formed off of Greek reason and Jewish Christian values, The U. S. S. R was founded off of atheism and the religious beliefs of Karl Marx

[exitseven]

Good MyTake. The abortion issue is more complicated. We need a committee with no politicians or religious leaders to determine when a fetus becomes a person.. We need doctors, scientists and philosophers to determine when an embryo becomes a person. I just know that it is more than 6 weeks and less than ten minutes before a natural birth.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[Berethor]

Pro-life and slut-shaming goes well together, pro-life can be used as a punishment for sluts. :)

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlutShaming

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodGirlsAvoidAbortion

[SweedyPie]

I was about to reply to this anon and realized there's no anon option 🤐🤐🤐🤐🙃

[Agagagagaga]

Lol 🐔 🐓

Oh no! People would know what your real opinions are! Can’t have that!

[SweedyPie]

@Agagagagaga hahaha nope I am not shy about my opinions at all. If you knew me on here at least you'd know that. I'm super straightforward. With regard to this it's just too personal for me to even disclose here without anon. And between you an I it would be the second anon post I'd have made in about 3years. Lol but there you go, keyboard warriors loaded with judgement and thinking you know everything.

[PatriceONeal]

You managed to get everything wrong. 35 and you're a complete fool.

[MCheetah]

Wow. AMAZING rebuttal! Well done, good sir! 👏

[PatriceONeal]

Same effort as you gave... all my rebuttals are here for you to read. My take is quite clear. Argue in good faith or we'll think of you like the rest of the brainwashed democrat slaves.

[MCheetah]

"Argue in good faith"

You can be the first one to do that.
Or not. I don't care about this issue that much, like I already stated.

[MCheetah]

And I know you called me "blue pilled" earlier, but you clearly haven't been on here very long if you think I'm some kind of Democrat/Liberal. Go through my other MyTakes if you really think I'm the Joe Biden/California type.

[PatriceONeal]

Your emotionaly hijacked response tells me you're a lefty democrat.. if you're black like your pic suggests then you vote with your race monolithically but don't find that problematic.

[PatriceONeal]

You say you don't care about the issues. Is that you shirking responsibility or what? Why did you fly off the handle in defense of something you don't care about. I'd be wary if that were me.

[MCheetah]

Whatever, fag.
I know when to call it quits with dumbasses on the internet.
Goodbye.

[MCheetah]

"Argue in good faith"
Good god, you are dumb.
Have fun with your Flat Earth brained bullshit.
Not that there was ever any "arguments" going on here, anyway.
I'd be willing to at least entertain anything of substance you had to say, rather than sit here and listen to some fucking pro-life brainlet insult me.