Eminem is a fuckin' pathetic idiot by now, 'look at me im so fuckin' empassioned & angry when I sing now'. I used to just be like luke warm to him but then I saw some article where he apologized to his ex girlfriend Kim & it was like, what next Eminem? You gonna bake your momma a cake now? It was so disappointing. Then he came out with the cringey anti-Trump video, which, I find Donald Trump to be a disdainful shitfuck but Eminem managed to make Trump hating seem played out & silly. Just pile like eight black guys behind you to nod their heads as yes men while you tell your own fans that you want control over who they can vote for or else you hate them.
This story is like the icing on the cake, cause if its true he's a total hypocite for putting more white people into the world, like he's Got a daughter by a white woman. I think he's just easily manipulated into having blanket opinions about certain races & just assumes with the Trump shit that white people all love Trump to a Hitlerian degree, which is pathetic and stupid for a white person to believe about himself. Like dude, police brutality is everybodies' fucking problem. That kid who was murdered on his hands & knees while begging for his life by that cop in Nevada was white, & that cop got off completely scott free. I'm just sick & tired of people trying to give attention to celebrities who just want to stir up racial tribalism on issues that have actual severity and importance. Eminem isn't an intellectual, he's an artist, & he's entitled to his own opinions as most other, saner people also are.
If anything I'd be more embarrassed to be black. Not to sound racist, let me explain.
Black people are so offended when a white person kills a black person, but black people kill black people all the time and you don't see them come out on the streets and tell how hurt they're because of that. White people kill white people too and we're not making any movements about that.
Of course some of the killings are because of the race, because some people are idiots. People killing each other because of politics, religion, different views or even because they want to steal their fucking shoes. Racial killings are just a small percent. Of course they're something we should fight with, but we should do it together, and not one race playing victims over the other one.
We are all people, we should work together to make this world a better place.
Well I'm a huge fan of him and I choose to ignore all the stupid shit he's done or said. I think it's really pathetic and immature of him, though you have to take into consideration that he was brutally bullied because of being white, so maybe he's coming from that also, but killing yourself because of that (and leaving your kids behind) is so fucking stupid I can't even comprehend it.
And tbh do you really think that he was bruttaly bulyied by what, whites too? I doubt it, by the way on 8 mile, it tells his story to reach fame, and if you notice, there is a lot of racism for him being white
I haven't actually read up on this, but I kind of doubt he's being literal about wanting to kill himself. So if he's using the phrase in the metaphorical sense as I suspect he is, he kind of has a point tbh. Like, look at the state of the US right now, at our current president and the election in Alabama, and the prevalence of white supremacy/alt right bullshit.
You're fucking ridiculous, he doesn't have any kind of a point. Being embarrassed at the color of your skin is absolutely ridiculous. Is that not what we have been fighting against for decades? If anything it shows what hypocrites people like these are.
@Maik567 what, have you never heard it used that way? I have. Like "ugh I'm so tired I wanna die" or "that puppy is so cute it literally makes me wanna kill myself". Not super duper common usages, and in somewhat bad taste, but definitely still real and actual expressions.
And when members of a group you are a part of behave badly, that's embarrassing. And there is no doubt that white people lately have been behaving badly- again, the Alabama senate election and the resurgence of neonaziism.
Try, "Ugh I don't like some people with the same skincolor as me. I wanna die"
"And when members of a group you are a part of behave badly, that's embarrassing."
Lol now you are LITERALLY grouping people by the color of their skin. When some moronic white person does something stupid I don't feel any more embarrassed then when some moronic black person does something stupid. You wanna know why? Because I'm not a racist and I don't believe that your race defines you.
This is exactly what I mean when I said people who say this shit are complete hypocrites. Including you.
But you're the one who said "when members of a group you are a part of behave badly, that's embarrassing." You're also the one who said he has a point.
The only way you'd think he has a point if you think there is a reason to act embarrassed just because you share a fucking skincolor with someone you don't like. If you think it's legitimate for white people to feel embarrassed for other white people doing stupid shit, then would you also say that a black guy who said he was embarrassed to be black because some black people are criminals also has a point?
No, there is never a point to being embarrassed of your race. Cause that kind of thinking implies that your race defines who you are as a person. I am not responsible for the actions of other white people just like a black person isn't responsible for the actions of another black person. I really don't understand how you can have such a backwards mentality while you're still talking about social issues.
@Maik567 yes. I never said I feel the same way though. I just mean if you do believe the actions of other people of your race reflect on you, eminems position isba reasonable one to have. Tbh I'm on board with the whole not judging a whole group by its shitty members thing, but that doesn't mean other people are, so there is still potential embarrassment there.
Now you're completely backtracking and going "he has a point if you believe in this one ridiculous and racist thing" That's like if I said "Nazis kinda had a point if you believe the jews are evil"
If you believe the actions of other people of your race affects you then you are an absolute idiot and a racist.
@Maik567 yes, I did. "He has a point" is not synonymous with "I agree with his point". You may interpret it that way, but its not the way I meant it so that's not what it meant.
@Maik567 yes. I think there is something legitimate about what he is saying, but that doesn't mean I share his views. Is this seriously so hard to grasp?
@Maik567 if you view your race as a collective group where the actions of some members reflect on the other members, being embarassed for being white would be reasonable
You personally said that you think he kind of has a point, so you're admitting it's legitimate to think that actions of other people of your race reflect on you personally.
@Maik567 I personally dont think the actions of some members of a group should reflect on all other members necessarily, but I also realize that many people do think that way and that its not unusual to hold that belief. How many times do I have to say that before yoy believe me? Like honestly, what's your problem? You just reeeeaally hate people giving any credence to beliefs you don't agree with, huh?
You are giving credence to racism. There are plenty of people who think certain races are better than others and it's not unusual to hold that belief either. But I would never say the point is credible or say that "they have a point".
That is is the problem. And no, you're not gonna say that someone has a point if you don't agree with them. You're a joke.
@Maik567 this is about embarrassment, not liability. If I'm with someone at a resteraunt and they treat the server badly, that embarasses me too even though I'm not responsible for their behavior. Shit dude, iget secondhand embarrassment from seeing people I don't even know do dumb shit. The point is, even if you cannot be reasonably expected to share responsibility for another person's actions, they can still embarass you, especially if you think there's reason to believe others might think their actions reflect on you.
Yeah but you're talking about this based on race. As if that had anything to do with this.
If I'm with a black guy and he treats the server badly I'm gonna be just as embarrassed if I was with a white guy who did the same thing. For you to say he has a point about feeling embarrassed because of skin color you're legitimizing racism and believing in stereotypes.
The point is that you're giving credence to racist behavior. The only thing that Eminem saying this proves is that he hangs around with people who would judge him based on the actions of others who share a skin color with him. In other words Eminem hangs out with racist people.
Eminem doesn't have a point in any fucking way unless you are an actual racist. That's why it triggers me when you say he has a point lol.
@Maik567 Race is something that other people group people by. Saying that its reasonable to be embarrassed by a member of your race doing something dumb isn't saying you should be embarassed or that you should share responsibility for your actions, only acknowledging that OTHER PEOPLE are likely to judge you based on their actions, which is what embarrassment is about. It's not a matter of personal feelings on responsibility but of social ones and personal awareness of those social standards.
It is not reasonable at all to be embarrassed by a member of your race doing something dumb. You should check out the definition of "reasonable" if you really believe that.
There are situations where I'm sure I would get judged for the color of my skin because of another white person did something stupid. But the thing is that the people judging me are being racist, and I'm not gonna legitimize that behavior like you.
Try reversing this situation and ask yourself if eminem would still have a point? If he was a black guy who lived in an environment where black guys did stupid shit, would he have a point to be embarrassed to be black? Would it be reasonable?
@Maik567 it really is. Its just as reasonable as beibg embarrassed by someone who you're with (or even just some rando) at a resteraunt doing something stupid. Or are you gonna tell me that's unreasonable too? That's just how embarrassment works. Its not you thinking you're responsible or else it would be shame, its just you thinking other people might judge you for something even if its not your fault. That's nit racism, that's realism.
Eminem said he is embarrassed of his skincolor. That has nothing to do with being embarrassed of your CHOICE of company. And like I just told you the only people who would judge you for the color of your skin are racists, why would you give a shit what they think, why give their views and opinions so much legitimacy?
It is absolutely not reasonable to be embarrassed of your skin color because of another member of your race doing something dumb. Literally go check the definition of "reasonable" jesus christ.
There is not a single point to be embarrassed by something you never chose and can't change, and it's not reasonable either in any way. How is this such a hard concept for you to understand?
@Maik567 Semantics fam. I only agree that being part of a embarrassing group is embarrassing. If he meant it otherwise I'm less with him. The definition of reasonable has fuck all to do with this, why would it? Again, point is that if people who you think society would associate with you do embarrassing stuff, you get embarrassed. Do you really contest that point?
And do you find it unreasonable to be embarrassed by acne too? What if you're part of a randomly assigned your group and the other members are acting badly? Those aren't things under your control, yet I think it's fully understandable if someone is embarassed by them. Maybe they shouldn't be, but emotions aren't that susceptible to logic.
Being embarrassed of your skin color is not sensible in any fucking way. That's how.
And yes I contest that point because the assumption is wrong. The truth is that any intelligent individual won't judge other individuals based on the actions of their group. If you're hanging out with an Asian guy and you see a group of Asian guys being dick heads is that gonna make you judge your friend? No it won't and that's the case with all people who have any sense in their heads. So no the people around you are not gonna judge you for the actions of another idiot unless they are racist, in which case you're stupid for giving their opinions that much legitimacy.
And being embarrassed by acne is completely not comparable lol, if being white was seen by a large scale as unattractive or embarrassing then you might have a point. And if you truly believe that to be the case then you're admitting that white people face severe discrimination.
And even IF that was the case it would be about being embarrassed of your own acne because of something someone else with acne did. You really don't have a point.
@Maik567 Keyword: "any intelligent individual". A lot of folks aren't so intelligent. Thus why I might be embarrassed of bad skin in public but not among close friends who I trust. Again demonstrating that embarrassment is about how you think you will be perceived rather than how you think you should be perceived or how you perceive yourself.
"if being white was seen by a large scale as unattractive or embarrassing then you might have a point" Then I do have a point because that's what I've been saying. And being seen as embarrassing isn't discrimination, certainly no more so than that many other groups face. People judge others based on race, even based on being white. They shouldn't, but they do. And maybe yeah, seeing all white people as culpable for the embarassing shit other white people do is some kind of discrimination, but compared to the bullshit black people put up with it ain't shit.
Being embarrassed of being white intristically is completely different from being embarrassed of being white because of others. That's why your acne example doesn't apply here.
And it literally is discrimination what the fuck is wrong with your brain? If I was seen as being embarrassing just for the color of my skin that is discrimination, just like it's discrimination that black people could be seen as aggressive or thuggish just based on the color of their skin.
And all of this discrimination based on skin color is shit. ALL OF IT. That's why it's a fucking joke that you'd say Eminem has a point when he legitimizing being embarrassed for your skin while you simultaneously say black people shouldn't feel embarrassed for their skin color.
@Maik567 Semantics. Maybe if you're being super exact with your speech the two are different, but hardly anyone actually is that nitpicky.
I told you it might be discrimination, but not of a level experienced by most other races. "White people are kinda embarrassing" is way less shitty than "black people are stupid and thuggish" and results in far less negative treatment.
It's completely different. Being embarrassed of having acne because you think it looks ugly is completely different from being embarrassed of acne because you think people with acne act stupid.
It literally is discrimination, and you said it wasn't. I don't remember saying that being seen as embarrassing is as bad as being seen as a thug. That doesn't make it acceptable, what kind of a fucking bizarro world do you live in? ALL DISCRIMINATION BASED ON RACE IS BAD. Why are you making excuses against that?
I really don't understand how I can put this more simply, it is not reasonable and there is no point in being embarrassed for the color of your skin. Period.
@Maik567 "Being embarrassed of having acne because you think it looks ugly is completely different from being embarrassed of acne because you think people with acne act stupid." How are you still missing the point this badly after I've explained and reexplained it in damn near every comment? This isn't about what you think about acne, its about what you think others think about it.
The closest I came to denying it was discrimination was "And being seen as embarrassing isn't discrimination, certainly no more so than that many other groups face." Aka if it is discrimination its not very bad, but its nit bad enough for me to call it true discrimination, though if you're being super duper nitpicky I guess you could term it that.
And you really don't understand the difference between being embarrassed of your acne because you think other people are not gonna find you attractive and being embarrassed of acne because you think other people are gonna discriminate you based on other people who have acne? It seems like you're just trying to talk about the feeling of being embarrassed instead of what actually lead to it. If you're embarrassed of being white because you think it's intrinsically bad, then you're pretty fucked in the head and have some serious issues with your self esteem, but if you're embarrassed of being white because you think you're gonna be held responsible for the actions of other white people then you're just legitimizing racist opinions.
I said that being seen as embarrassing BASED ON THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN, is discrimination. And then you go and try to say it isn't. Why did you even bother writing that?
And lol "if it's discrimination, it's not very bad". You do realize there are people saying that exact shit about what people of other races go through. All discrimination is bad. It's disgusting that you're making so many excuses to defend racism.
@Maik567 Can we note that you completely dropped the tour group and friend at a resteraunt examples? The acne was mostly meant to coubter the "you dont feel embarrassed about stuff thats not your fault" horseshit.
"If you're embarrassed of being white because you think it's intrinsically bad, "
Still strawmanning I see. Look, I'm not interested in talking to you if you dont address my actual arguments. If you argue against arguments that aren't mine, you might was well just go talk to a wall instead since either way you sure as fuck ain't actually arguing with me, but with a fictionalized version of me.
And actually, you already gave up the embarrassment point, all that's left is the discrimination issue, which is just a matter of how you define discrimination. ""if being white was seen by a large scale as unattractive or embarrassing then you might have a point". So why are you still arguing about whether its embarassing when you already admitted it is?
I didn't drop it lol, I said you CHOOSE the company you're with. I don't feel embarrassed if someone random acts like a dick. I feel embarrassed if someone I'm with acts like a dick cause that shows that I choose to hang out with dickheads. You don't choose your race.
That wasn't a strawman, that was a response to your acne argument. People with acne are embarrassed of the acne itself, not the other people with acne. And on the contrary eminem is saying he is embarrassed of being white because of other people.
And honestly I kinda got your drawn into you excusing discrimination. I don't actually believe that white people are seen as being embarrassing, I've never experienced that. You might be just socially awkward or something.
@Maik567 "What if you're part of a randomly assigned tour group and the other members are acting badly? Those aren't things under your control,"
You can't choose the company your with in that case, I made that clear as a response to your choice argument.
People with acne are embarassed because they think other people will perceive the acne badly, nit because they perceive it badly themselves. In my example at least.
Oh so you agreed with ny argument when you thought there was another way for you to make yours, but now its clear that that argument is a dead end you're backtracking? Hypocrite.
I mean I really wouldn't be embarrassed in that situation, but let's say had to hold a representation with someone who I was randomly assigned to and they did some really dumb shit. Then I would be embarrassed because people would actually have a reason to think I'm associated to his actions. And you're comparing sharing a skin color to that. People have no reason to believe I'm connected to or responsible of actions of other people with the same skin color as me unless they are racist like I said.
And lol you just basically proved my point about how bad of an example the acne thing was. Because the reality of the situation is that people with acne are embarrassed of it because they think it looks ugly. You should have a conversation with someone who has had severe acne. If you're happy and confident with yourself, you often won't be embarrassed of something just because other people think it looks ugly.
And no I got pissed off at you basically saying that that form of discrimination would be fine because its mild and focused against white people. And that got me off track, it was definitely my fault but considering we are talking about like 4-5 different things you can't really blame me.
For the record I think that white people are not discriminated against like that, but if they were it still wouldn't be ok.
@Maik567 "People have no reason to believe I'm connected to or responsible of actions of other people with the same skin color as me unless they are racist like I said"
UNLESS THEY ARE RACIST. And a lot of people are. So there is reason to believe people will judge you based on the actions of others of your same skin color.
And yeah, not all people are embarassed of acne. People shouldn't be embarassed of it. And yet they are, and that embarrassment is not unreasonable, even if it is illogical. But really the particular cause and nature of the embarassment isn't what's at issue, its the general reason for embarrassment. You seem to think that embarrassment is about being ashamed of yourself, I believe that it is about being self conscious about other people's perceptions of you. Thus why doing something stupid (or a family member doing something stupid) in public is way more embarassing than the same thing happening in private.
AND YOU ARE GIVING LEGITIMACY TO THESE RACIST OPINIONS. You are giving credibility to racism, that's the problem here. And yea there is reason to believe racists will judge you for your skin color, that doesn't mean it's reasonable or that there is a point to being embarrassed for your skin color just because of what racists believe.
There are different types of embarrassment, being embarrassed of having acne and being embarrassed because of people who share your skin color are completely not comparable and I explained why multiple times. People with acne are embarrassed because they don't like how they look. Most white people who are embarrassed of being white because they think there is something wrong with how they look or themselves unlike people with acne, they are embarrassed of being associated with the white people who's actions they don't like.
@Maik567 Being embarassed of a member of a tour group you're in doing dumb shit isn't giving credibility to the idea that you're responsible for the actions of others in that tour group. Being embarassed of your parent doing something dumb isn't giving credibility to the idea that your parent's actions are your fault. Do you or do you not agree that embarrassment is a function of how you think you will be perceived by others as opposed to how you perceive yourself? That's the issue here.
There is a strong connection and association with your parents and you that's what makes it embarrassing. That's my point, you're comparing actual connections and associations with something as ridiculous as sharing a fucking skin color. And I already said I wouldn't get embarrassed in your tour example, and I feel like a lot of people wouldn't either.
You can be embarrassed from self perception and from how others perceive yourself. I used to be embarrassed of the fact that I used to be scared of the dentist until I was like 16-17. I wasn't worried about other people finding out, I was embarrassed of myself. Just like how people with acne usually have a shitty self image which ends up messing with them much more than how others actually perceive them.
Comparing the idea of you being embarrassed of yourself because of strangers who only share the same skin color with you with being embarrassed of someone you have an actual real connection with (like your parent who raised you and is as closely connected to you as someone can get) is fucking ridiculous.
If I had never known my parents and I met them for the first time and they acted like idiots, I wouldn't feel embarrassed at all. It's only because of that connection that I would feel embarrassed. There is no more of a connection between me and a random white guy than me and a random black guy.
@Maik567 Id call embarrassment due to self perception shame, but whatevs. Point is embarrassment can also be on account of how you think others will perceive you, yes? If you disagree, that means we just have fundamentally different perceptions of embarrassment and can't move forward.
Of course embarrassment can be because of how others perceive you, but my point is that if you get embarrassed because of how RACISTS perceive you because of your race then you're giving validity for their opinions. That's what I've been saying all along. If I walked into a room of people who hated white people and thought we were subhuman trash I wouldn't be fucking embarrassed of the color of my skin, because I understand that their fucked up view of the world is wrong. It is not reasonable and there is no point to be embarrassed of the color of your skin. That's my fucking point.
@Maik567 I don't think so. I don't think its that easy to control your emotions. I'm still embarrassed when I look bad even though I think people who judge others based on appearance are shitty.
Well I think the votes on your comment clearly show that people disagree with you. You might be embarrassed of the color of skin because of the actions of others, but by no logic is that reasonable or is there a point to it.
@Maik567 people can disagree, that doesn't make me wrong. Being embarassed isn't rational as such, you can't control when it happens. Expecting people to be able to rationally pick and choose when to feel what and under what circumstances is a bit ridiculous honestly.
" sensible, rational, open to reason, full of common sense, logical, fair, fair-minded, just, equitable, decent; intelligent, wise, level-headed, practical, realistic; based on good sense, sound, judicious, well thought out, well grounded, reasoned, well reasoned, valid, commonsensical, advisable, well advised; tenable, plausible, feasible, credible, acceptable, admissible, believable, viable"
This is exactly what I meant when I said you need to look up the definition. I'm perfectly aware words have multiple definitions, but you're clearly misusing the word. Something being normal and something being reasonable are COMPLETELY different things. People do plenty of unreasonable things normally.
@Maik567 "Having sound judgement; fair and sensible". In this case, fair. "as much as is appropriate or fair; moderate" in this case, appropriate. And from your synonyms, valid, acceptable, realistic, admissible, and fair.
I mean you can read the rest of the comments in this post as well. But sure keep telling yourself that being embarrassed of the color of your skin is "normal".
@Maik567 I'm not really? I don't give a shit whether its normal since normalicy has no bearing on rightness or wrongness or responsibility? Are you really gonna bandwagon fallacy me after already having tried to pull a straw man?
You're the one who fucking used the bandwagon fallacy calling it "reasonable" because you think it's normal.
It is blatantly fucking obvious that there is nothing right about blaming someone for the actions of others. And that you are not accountable for the actions of other white people. You're the one making excuses for racism saying eminem "has a point" when he is talking about being embarrassed of your own skin color. Take a fucking look at what you're defending.
Except that's not how embarrassment works. You have to have some serious fucking mental issues to get embarrassed of the actions of someone just because they have the same skin color as you. Do you also get embarrassed by actions of people who share the same hair or eye color as you? You're legitimizing this racist bullshit.
Can you give it up already? Embarrassment is about how you think others will perceive u, regardless of whether they're right or wrong in judging you. Even secondhand embarassment is a thing- being embarassed by something someone else or even a movie character does.
@Maik567 Okay, so embarrassment doesn't require witnesses. But witnesses still cause embarassment regardless of fault or how actually judgy or actually right witnesses are. Again, being embarassed when other tourists do dumb shit even though u have nothing to do with them
Also like there's stuff I do where if I do it in private its fine (singing/dancing to music on earbuds for instance) but in public itd be super embarrassing
"But witnesses still cause embarassment regardless of fault or how actually judgy or actually right witnesses are."
This isn't true tho. Maybe it is for you but clearly not to most people. If I know people are judging me for something ridiculous or for racist reasons I'm not gonna get embarrassed because I know how fucking retarded their views are. Like I said if I walk into a room of people who think white people are subhuman trash why would I be embarrassed? When I know that they are the ones who should be embarrassed for holding such ridiculous and racist views.
Normal people react to someone judging you for racist reasons with anger or just laughing at how ridiculous they are, you're just incredibly sensitive. And eminem is giving credibility to these racist views by saying it's ok to be embarrassed of your own skin color.
@Maik567 So you would be equally embarassed singing badly in public and in private? Doubt it fam. And based on when I've heard other people describe when they're embarrassed it ain't true for most people either
According to Wikipedia: "Embarrassment can be personal, caused by unwanted attention to private matters or personal flaws or mishaps. Some causes of embarrassment stem from personal actions, such as being caught in a lie or in making a mistake, losing badly in a competition, or being caught performing bodily functions such as flatulence. In many cultures, being seen nude or inappropriately dressed is a particularly stressful form of embarrassment (see modesty). Personal embarrassment can also stem from the actions of others who place the embarrassed person in a socially awkward situation—such as a parent showing one's baby pictures to friends, having someone make a derogatory comment about one's appearance or behaviour, discovering one is the victim of gossip, being rejected by another person (see also humiliation), being made the focus of attention (e. g., birthday celebrants, newlyweds), or even witnessing someone else's embarrassment."
This is how normal people can react to racist bullshit. He doesn't get embarrassed because of her racist assumptions, he points it out and laughs at how ridiculous the people are acting. Some people might react to it with anger or in some other way but can you seriously imagine someone black going "Being black is so embarrassing, I want to check out of life and" and then talking about how shamed of other black people they are?
@Maik567 Well good for him. I never claimed people shoukd be embarassed, only that it was understandable if they did. As I said and as Wikipedia backs up embarassment is about what you think other people think of you, not what you think personally.
Cause wikipedia knows more about feelings than the people actually experiencing them?
And no it really isn't understandable, I asked you a question. Can you seriously imagine someone black going "Being black is so embarrassing, I want to check out of life and" and then talking about how shamed of other black people they are? When they were facing racism?
@Maik567 Because Wikipedia is a pretty good source and certainly reflects public perception well.
I can actually. Doesn't mean they're right, just that such people absolutely do exist. Now can you fuck off? I've proven pretty conclusively that embarrassment works how I've said it works from the beginning, so I don't see why you're still taking issue with this
No it doesn't lol. A persons self perception fucks up with them mentally much more than how others perceive them. You can absolutely be embarrassed of yourself without thinking about how other people see you. Are you really trying to argue that that's not possible?
It's honestly almost impressive how fucking out of touch with reality you are. You know there are moments in life where you should take a fucking moment and actually think about the shit that comes out of your mouth. One of those moments is when you're literally saying that being embarrassed of your skincolor is reasonable. Sure such people exist but they are insanely fucked in the head and have deep mental issues. That is not normal or reasonable, you just have no idea how normal people think.
@Maik567 Jesus christ stop with the strawmans. I've never argued its not possible, only that the alternative also is and that typically embarassment (imo) tends to be more about worrying about public perception than personal perception, because if its personal perception I'd say that's shame rather than embarrassment.
Also, one more fallacy and I'm blocking u. I'm already bored of this argument, and I'm for sure not about engaging with someone incapable of making an argument without resorting to fallacies.
Why the fuck are you even arguing about that then? I already stated that there are different ways to be embarrassed, external and internal.
You've fallen for more logical fallacies in this argument then I could ever hope for in an entire life time. You are delusional and clearly have no sense of self awareness. Think about what kind of a racist you have to be to think that white people being embarrassed of their skin color is reasonable.
@Maik567 Because that counter appears to imply that my interpretation is wrong, particularly because I already said multiple times that I accept that multiple types of embarrassment can exist.
You use strawman arguments literally all the fucking time. You misinterpret what I say or you just straight up put words in my mouth and then start arguing against the argument you created yourself.
I'm not gonna go through the whole conversation, cause you know how fucking long it has been but I can give you a few examples like:
"So you would be equally embarassed singing badly in public and in private? Doubt it fam." When I literally never said that or argued against it.
"I don't give a shit whether its normal since normalicy has no bearing on rightness or wrongness or responsibility? Are you really gonna bandwagon fallacy me after already having tried to pull a straw man?"
You said this even tho your whole fucking justification of why you think it's reasonable is just a bandwagon argument, your whole argument was that it's reasonable because you say it is "normal"
You also use faulty comparisons like crazy. Comparing the bond you have with a parent t
You also use faulty comparisons like crazy. Comparing the bond you have with a parent to one you share with someone who you only share a fucking skin color with.
Not to mention the "fallacy fallacy" I've ignored all your logical fallacies and replied by actually explaining how you've misinterpreted my point, but you hold this idea that just because a point is poorly argued FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW the point itself must be false. And if you want to get technical we have both used anecdotal evidence to argue our points. Which also counts as a logical fallacy. Also you're definitely guilty of falling for the fallacy of appealing to nature/normalcy. "Making the argument that because something is 'natural' it is therefore valid, justified, inevitable, good, or ideal."Just because you think it's normal to be embarrassed when you're racistly judged. Does not mean that Eminem actually has a point like you said or that he is being reasonable in any way.
Cause he really isn't he is being completely ridiculous and he has no point whatsoever. It's different to actually argue and comment on racial issues than to say it's ok to be embarrassed of your skin color and want to kill yourself because you're white. You saying that "he has a point" is a complete joke. You're ignoring what he is saying and looking behind from where those words might come from, that doesn't make his words "reasonable" or "understandable".
You saying he has a point would be similar to someone quoting a KKK member, but going "Well I don't agree with his exact words or what he is saying, but I do agree that the black community definitely has some problems, therefore this man has a point and him saying this is reasonable"
Eminem does not have a point no matter how shitty you think some white people are. Not even if you're so messed up and racist that you get embarrassed what white strangers do but not embarrassed what black strangers do.
I can't believe this! I mean, he might be aware of racism, he might be aware of how non-white people are treated by racist white people, but wanting to kill himself it's too much.
I wouldn't take it that seriously. The only sites reporting this are neon-nettle, information liberation and truthseeker. None of those are remotely reputable
Anti-racism is so of an existing race can't do anything wrong Bc the race card is drawn immediately. "you arrest me Bc i'm (insert race)". Drawn further. "I can't do anything wrong because im a minority and whites are privileged." I think eminem has heard a few times to often: "well you have it easy, you're white". He pitied himself of having a too good life. Maybe if you are rich enough, you start to imagine problems.
So basically because white people keep acting like total assholes he is ashamed of being of the same race as them. Makes sense to me I guess, I would also be ashamed if the people who shared the same group as me did the things white people in America is doing.
Not that I'm a huge fan of Eminem, but 5 minutes looking this up revealed these are lyrics in one of his songs. And, as you might have imagined, he didn't quite say what this article says he said, in his song.
It's fasionable to hate white people right now. White people industrialized first, which means we operated in a pre industrial world with the power of industrial development. If you look at pre industrial history there is nothing really strange about the last century. It's just that 19th century politics with 20th century technology was far more brutal. That and a mature industrial ized society considers 19th century geopolitics excessively violent. So looking back we feel dumb, and think, we should have known better.
He wants to kill himself for being white? What kind of example this sets for his young fans? How that will sound for the gullible and depressed young fan?
I think mainstream media is paying celebrities to talk political shit. This immature and reckless white boy has made a career out of feeling unappeciated and bullied as "white rapper", now he's been barking at a nonexistent detractor.
Then he's a fucking idiot. Your race doesn't matter. You should be able to ennoy life no matter your race. That's hard to do, because we do have idiots who still feed into racism. Yea bad things happened in the past, but that's where it belongs. It's stupid how people are playing victim.
What is there even to be embarrassed of? By far, White's are the most successful. No other race was able to control the world. The vast advances in technology are nothing to brush aside either. You people that get 'embarrassed' baffle me. Yes by all means, I would not shed a tear if he killed himself. One less useless rapper.
In the case of Eminem I think he should go ahead and do it, the aryan race could use to be rid of him as a matter or racial hygiene. I assume you're just joking about yourself. When you're white, it's not like there's any upgrade.
Trendy leftie commie crap. He's only doing this for the attention. I seriously doubt whether he really feels like that. Either way, he needs help for his issues.
Nope. If you are in fact Mexican then I wouldn't expect you to quite understand how much of a detriment these self hating whites are to the rest of us.
Even basic things like preserving our history. Consider, when you see people demanding that we dismantle statues of our historical figures and roll over due to some crap that happened centuries ago, like half of that crowd is usually whites with poor self-esteem.
Are you talking about what happened when traitor to the country Robert E. Lee's statue was removed? If you are, then that shit doesn't matter to me. I would hope they tear down any monuments to Hitler if there were any standing after WWII in Germany. Plus, no ones not remembering what happened based on the absence of statues, the history books are clear.
No, they were protesting Columbus, actually. But these same people have also called for the removal of statues of our founding fathers too. Although Robert E. Lee is admired for his service to the US Army, and his sound personal character. Tearing down statues amounts to nothing less than an attempt to wipe away a part of history. Which is why we tore down statues of Hitler and Saddam. Because those were bad people. At the end of the day, self-loathing stems from many sources. It's an obstacle that many young people have to face throughout their lives. and they should seek help so that they may find comfort and self-actualization. What they should not do, however, is attempt to project their self-loathing on those around them. Let's say that I'm anorexic. I hate that I'm fat. I need help. What I should not do is go around trying to do harm to those who don't suffer from anorexia.
Robert E. Lee helped the worst war in American history bleed more American lives than any other war we've been involved in. Not to mention, his father had promised to release the slaves he had after he died but Lee decided to keep them & torture them when they decided to flee. Fuck his record, fuck his treacherous promise breaking ass, I would piss on his grave. I don't own a single ounce of him on account of being white.
Columbus discovered Haiti, but the dumbass continued to insist he discovered India well up to his death bed days. If you look at all the torture, exploitation, & slavery in his record you'd find the actions of a largely indefensible man. He's not even the first white person to discover the new world, there's evidence that Vikings showed up long before him.
Removing the statues of the founding fathers might be wrong, but its still everything to do with their actions as slave owners & Indian killers, nothing to do with their race. I disagree with the idea of removing Those states but I nonetheless don't viee any attempt on that as an action against white people.
Should the Pyramids of Giza, the Great Sphinx be torn down? The monuments are not meant to symbolize or imply perfection, they symbolize or imply greatness. When you tear down the monuments of great men you are not only destroying art, but also a historical record. Columbus was the first man to set up a lasting foothold in the New World. Maybe he did think it was India, but so what? Columbus did nothing that the American-Indians didn't already do among one another. The fact is that we would be nowhere without him. So if you want to move back to Europe out of some personal feeling of guilt, then have at it. But I don't. As for Robert E. Lee he literally only fought for the Confederacy because he considered himself a Virginian and Virginia sided with the CSA. In his personal writings it is abundantly clear that he has few if any warm feelings towards slavery and he did actually release his slaves at the behest of his father's will, in 1862. Robert E. Lee was a decorated military...
officer. A historically great and inspiring leader to those around him, his personal character was very good. His father was among those who fought to gain our freedom during the American revolution. There's no reason to hold him in contempt except for what, picking the losing side? Let's not forget that Grant and Sherman also fought in the war. They killed men; Americans. Is it not wrong that they contributed to the loss of life? Of course not. They were doing a job in which people die regularly.
The Pyramids of Giza & the Sphinx are architectural achievements that demonstrate humanity's quest for structure & progression in the skills through which we attain it. I would not say most of the people who appreciate those monuments & crypts are doing it because they have reverence for egyptian slavery or the domestic/foreign policy of Pharohs.
I do not think that being the first person to do something necessarily absolves you of moral obligations to own the evils with which you practiced while doing it. He enslaved, tortured, & ransacked. Like some pirate, only of a nation. I would literally give the Natives guns & dynamite, encouraging them to not let Columbus' party return to their homeland, if I had the means of time travel necessary to stop what happened.
I very much disagree that we would be nowhere without him, as white people especially. You're almost suggesting that our success hinges on the criminal actions of madmen as a race. I don't believe genocide or slavery nor thievery makes us strong or is at least this singular means to attain strength. I'm unimpressed with the argument that because tribes warred with each other that white people have carte blanche to abuse them. Imagine a race of purple people pointing at WWI to justify the slaughter and takeover of Europe.
Robert E. Lee fought for a bunch of terrorists who wanted white supremacist doctrines like the biblical sanctioning of slavery against the dark or the Dred Scott ruling to persist in not only their neighborhoods but throughout expansion into the west. I agree that he didn't join just to reinforce slavery, but you cannot make the case that he was no friend of the institution.
He killed John Jay, the vigilante abolitionist radical, as Jay attempted to break into an armory to arm a slave rebellion. He Did have those slaves that attempted to escape tortured. His allegiance to Virgina may be subjectively laudible but it doesn't change the fact that he fought for traitors to his nation & spilled the blood of his countrymen more efficiently than anyone else at that time. I find it very ironic to flaunt his fathers accomplishments for 'freedom' when one considers the issue of slavery. Grant and Sherman were trying to prevent disuinion & I don't disagree with the decision to quell racist rebellion.
What? John Jay was the first Chief Justice of the Supreme court. I don't even think he was alive when Robert E. Lee was an adult. You're talking about John Brown who was killed by marines led by a young Robert E. Lee at the behest of the US government. As a military man was he supposed to just not fight? Like, you're becoming irritated and illogical. Think about this.
Alright, it was John Brown. I'm not necessarily begrudging the fact that Lee was doing his job, its true that Lee as a figure was very much an impediment to abolitionism though, that was the point
Furthermore, the Pyramids and Sphinxes were built by slaves. That's apparently sufficient justification to tear them down. Or we can't tear them down because it's only okay to destroy our monuments? If you would support the American Indians over your fellow Europeans then I want nothing to do with you and it is as laughable as it is ironic that you would then decry Robert E. Lee for, "treason." It is clear that your sympathies lie with a group of murderous backwards savages and not with your own. Perhaps you should make like your friend if you hate us so much.
Okay, again, the point of the pyramids isn't that the pharoh was awesome in spite of his slaves, the point of why its appreciated is that its an architectural achievement. No one else could do it, and then a lot of human enginuity was put into what became a marvel of the world. We can say the same thing of the Great Wall or the Tahj Mahal. We're talking about a statue though. A statue that was not an unprecedented accomplishment, that was dedicated to someone who if they would have won would have overseen a nation of slaves, who tortured slaves, lead rebellion against us, & was a hinderance to abolitionism. The two aren't comprable.
See that's the problem with you collectivists, if I want to right a wrong in our past you think its me siding with every murdering, raping band of fuckin' Lakotas or some shit. I don't have any allegiance to anyone because they are European, my allegiance is to myself & my sense of perspective on right & wrong. I think you should always prevent ethnic cleansing, & that if someone owns people as slaves they should probably be killed (provided there is no government response willing to result on their arrest) because they have no right to decide the destiny of those whom they view as beneath them. Even Native Americans who owned slaves should die.
I'm white also, not European. My heritage stems from men who fought on both sides of World War II and even the civil war. Its okay to be white, like i'm not suggesting we maintain white guilt or pay reparations for some shit neither of us did, i'm just saying its difficult to learn about the history of how people were abused & not become sympathetic to any cause mitigating their plight.
Plus, I am part native American, its a very miniscule part as I only know of one ancestor but I literally could not exist without the people who walked on the new world first. But, see, I never needed to know that to think it was wrong what happens to them. Or any other race of people getting fucked over.
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