Look the point of this post isn't meant to offend anyone who is part of the LGBTQ community. I simply want to understand the logic and reasoning behind why someone would be confused about their gender. Again I'm not trying to attack anyone but to simply increase my knowledge and understanding of why people choose a different route in life. How exactly can someone "feel" that they're actually a boy rather than a girl vice versa. Not to mention where did terms such as "demiboy" or "demigirl" come from? How can you "practically" connect to another gender? I don't know I'm sorry. This confusion is confusing me. Let me know what you think.
Society will show you what it means to be a girl or a boy. A child or young person may not naturally fit into the slot they were directed in. For example, there was a biological boy who was interested in “feminine” things like barbies and dresses and they later on gathered the idea that they were a girl. This never went away and the child eventually got a sex change. Her mother has done a Ted talk on it as well. I’ve personally never heard of a demiboy/girl and I am a pensexual woman. But I will say that these labels are made for the individuals who care to find like minded people with the same identities. It’s not necessarily for you to understand unless you are struggling with gender identity yourself. I really appreciate your respectfulness in your tone. Many others who’ve asked something similar were very condescending and mean. So thank you!
Ya thank you. I try to understand what exactly people are thinking before I make my opinion known. My issue is this though. You're born right? An eight year old boy doesn't have knowledge of biology, sex parts, or understands sex in general. How can he be born and with no knowledge of these things makes his pick of who he's attracted to? The way I see it it this. I think our personal experiences and childhood pave the way to our adulthood and who we're the rest of our lives.
But your gender doesn't change. You can be a feminine male, or be a mix of masculine and feminine. We all are a mix of some of those characteristics. But we aren't all considered non binary. Non binary suggests a binary exists, eliminating that there is no gender at all.
Being a "feminine male" doesn't make you a woman. It shouldn't and the law should not change to show that. Biology is more important than sociology in this case. If the person completely physically transitions then they can be considered intersex and should have a third option. But if they aren't willing to transition then they are not trans or non binary but merely a male or female with particular personality traits that aren't "traditional". It doesn't magically change your gender.
You don’t have to be aware of the complexities to have a basic understanding of... anything really. Like a boy may not be aware of what the word “flamboyant” but he could certainly act that way all on his own and develop a preference for that specific behavior. You are making it sound like a choice and I have to disagree with that. Also, yes the environment can heavily influence the future path that a child may walk on but the child still has a mind of its own. A personality has to be present and it is a thing that is supposed to be independent of external influences. Anyone can be born into the most conservative, anti-gay community where only heterosexuality is considered a thing, and still turn out gay (or whatever else).
@SirRexington Gender and sex can be either be seen as the same or complete opposites. It’s just personal understanding. You don’t believe they are separated, but I do. And that’s okay.
@Ellie-V I do indeed beleive they've made a choice. Not a wrong one. It was a choice though. It's like our preferences with anything. Music, food, racial preference (if you have one), etc. These are all products of our environment. Are they not?
Some preferences are choices and some are not. You have to actively choose to have a racial preference (if you still have an attraction towards others). But something like food? You can’t choose what you do and don’t like. Not everyone’s tongue is going to like the same thing. But anyways... I don’t believe that gender confusion/sexual orientation are choices. No straight man chooses to like vagina. They just do.
@Ellie-V fair enough. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. Thank you for your response! Again I'm trying to understand both sides of argument before making my personal conclusion. At the end of the day the LGBTQ community still deserves to be accepted into society, and who's to say they're not? 👍
But it's clearly not okay. For anyone. It overcomplicates things and it's giving more and more people a false sense of identity issues by claiming it so. There are two gender or none at all. Either way, you can be flamboyant, a tomboy, something in the middle and that is okay. That's who they are. But who they aren't, are some made up gender that makes things worse for everyone.
@SirRexington if a nonbinary person says hi, you say hi back. It does not have to be complicated. The labels are for the individuals who want them. If you don’t agree that is okay. It’s not like you’re going to meet a bunch of people who claim to be non-binary or whatever they please. So you don’t have to have a conversation equivalent to a rubix cube if you don’t want to.
Confusion with gender identity is a man-made issue, just like smog and climate change. The truth, however, is that there can ever be only two genders: male and female. If you are born male, you will die male. If you are born female, you will die female. Gender identity confusion comes of listening and pandering to the bs spouted by homos, feminists, and their disciples; and others who would see the extinction of humanity.
Well there's a lot to go into here so I don't know how long or scattershot my response will be, but hopefully I'll do ok.
So, I think the first important thing is to define gender. Gender is the social and cultural norms associated with a particular sex. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species and as such we have certain biological differences (what we refer to as sex differences) but as social creatures we also have societal influences (what we refer to as gender differences). One common example I use is that of a dress. In America where I live it is highly strange for a man to wear a dress, but in different cultures and times it wasn't that odd. The Scottish Kilt and Japanese Kimono being two good examples. Another that comes to mind is that the high heel was originally made for men (for horse riding as well as height), but now it's socially strange for men to wear them.
What is a transgender person? A transgender person is a person who, for whatever reasons, identifies or wishes to associate with the gendered norms opposite their sex. A male wanting to wear a dress, makeup, and things of that nature may desire to be perceived as a woman; whereas a woman may desire to associate with the stereotypically masculine norms.
Gender spectrum. This is where it starts to get weird and this is a relatively new phenomena. Every person has a mix of masculine and feminine traits. As such some people use this information to declare that their are as many genders as there are people. This is silly as the two genders are simply impersonal categories. Every person already has their own proper noun (their name) and making an infinite number of personal pronouns (zhe/ zher, ze, hi/ hir etc) is clunky and ineffective. I once heard a trans activist saying that we should just put someone's preferred personal pronoun next to their name in our contact list on the phone. Bollocks.
Why may someone associate as a gender other than their sex? There's a few possible reasons for this. The socialization theory is perhaps the greatest cause to the seeming rise of transgender identities where more and more people want to associate as a different gender because they were raised a certain way, or for social acclaim. We know, however, that trans people have always existed in different societies. We know some ancient romans were, the native American two spirit people were, and the Asian hijras for some examples. Thus it seems highly likely that there's at least some biological component. This hypothesis seems to be validated with some of the psychological research particularly with male to female trans persons. The research seems to demonstrate a rank order birthing effect on the instances of trans identity along with homosexuality. With each successive male birth a woman produces stronger antibodies against a male Y chromosomal protein. This means that her body will fight against that protein, the child will not receive it, and thus grow up with more effeminate qualities which subsequently increases the odds that he'll be gay or trans.
I think that went alright. Let me know if you've got any questions.
@ladsin I think you brought up so pretty good key points. I also think that you're missing some as well. Let me explain. I personally beleive that how we're raised, the environment, and our life experiences influences who we will be the rest of our life. I guess you can say I consider it a choice. It's a choice like any other choice in our life. When we're born it's like a memory file that's brand new. It has nothing on it until you start putting things into it. Right? Going back to choice I will give you other examples. The music we listen to, the food we like, political beliefs, etc is all products of our environment. Is it not? I also think some (not all) trans people had some sort of trauma that happened to them (in their childhood most likely) that just messed them up. The word I'm looking for is molested. Those aren't exciting experiences... those are horrifying... imagine being a child less than 10 and getting molested. That will completely change your outlook on life and probably rewire your brain forever. Once the damage is done... it's done... another example I'll give is the feminists who hate men. Most likely a past experience where a man raped them scarred their perception of men in general. I've grown to realize that some of these people on the far left like that do indeed have some sort of trauma that happened to them. I don't think I am going to show the hostility that I've shown in the past to them anymore (when they've attacked me). I feel bad for them... what some of them went through scarred them forever... it's sad actually...
Oh, ok. Wasn’t quite expecting that version 😂 thanks for the response. What you’re arguing for is essentially the Tabula Rasa or blank slate. The idea is that we’re all born blank slates and our personality is almost solely dependent on societal influences. Almost none of the research appears to indicate that’s the case. The Nurture Assumption: Why Children Turn Out the Way They Do by Judith Rich Harris quite roundly rebuts this conclusion. It appears that biology has far more to do with our lot in life than I think really any of us is comfortable with. Outside of biology the next most influential factor is peer groups with our parents pulling in a distant third position. I do think the literature shows that childhood trauma and societal factors can be a significant influence (hence my initial comment about the sociological factors playing a roll in the increasing pervasiveness in transgender identity) but we know that some portion of most any given population will associate with non-gender stereotypical norms. Just for reference I listed three. One from ~Europe, one from Native N Americans, and one from ~Asia. If I’m not wrong there were some in Africa as well, but I can’t recall their name off the top of my head. We even see some resemblance in other species, but it’s far more difficult to determine intent in them (anthropomorphizing cuttlefish males that pretend to be females for reproductive advantages for instance). If they existed across all times and places in varying cultures it’s significantly harder to believe that their presence is solely culturally based though right? So when we go to study them we find some significant correlations with things like transgender identity and birth order. I doubt you think mother’s are intentionally teaching their youngest boys to be trans, but their oldest ones to be masculine. That coupled with our biological knowledge that the mother’s body produces antigens to Y chromosomal proteins with successive pregnancies—
@ladsin so essentially what you're saying is that Tabula Rasa isn't the case? What about Innatism? The theory that suggests we're not born with a "blank slate" at first? I think you're also not taking into account how much the environment shapes who we're. Let me give a few examples. Ed Gein. He grew up with an alcoholic abusive father and a mother who shoved religion into him at a young age. This man went on to kill several people while skinning them. Not to mention dressing up as his mother. John Wayne Gacy. Same thing without the religious mother. An abusive father who could've possibly molested him (which is why he ended up molesting countless children). Not to mention there are mothers/fathers such as Kate Hudson (I heard about this but I don't know if it's true) who are teaching their children to grow up "nonbinary" or "genderless" (whatever it may be). by the way that to me is a form of child abuse. If what Kate Hudson is doing is true then she shouldn't be allowed to raise kids. No child should have to worry about their gender, sexual orientation, etc at that age. They're kids. That is absolutely disgusting. I think our environment plays a more prodigious role than you think... also what exactly did you mean by "wasn't expecting that version"?
I just meant I wasn’t expecting a tabula rasa case to be made as few hold to it anymore. Societal factors certainly play a role. I can’t remember the statistics of the top of my head so these are guesstimates. Let’s say that 3% of any given population has gay tendencies. .5% of any given population has trans tendencies, yet today we’re seeing something more akin to 1% trans tendencies. The.5% I would say is biological, the other.5% I would say is sociological. That’s already granting a 50:50 split which I say is rather high given the relevant research, but we know that most people who experience gender dysphoria or gender confusion grow out of it in a few years, so there’s certainly something happening to these kids that have confusion and then aren’t later.
As for you comment about serial killers. There’s a few different types. I don’t know about Gaines, but Dahmer appears to have been psychopathic which predisposes him to such behaviors whereas Gacy appears to have been a sociopath. A subtle difference, but an important one.
I saw that story about Kate and my understanding was that they just let the kid play with whatever toys it wanted and called it by it’s name rather than a gendered pronoun. Not that big a deal to me. Dolls and action figures aren’t that different. If she were to be trying to indoctrinate that kiddo I’d have a different opinion.
@ladsin if that's the case then my apologies to Mrs. Hudson. Let's not pretend that there aren't people out there though that are purposefully trying to confuse kids to further a political agenda. That is never okay in my opinion. The point is though. Would Gacy have turned out different if his father wasn't like that? We'll never know but we can't ignore that bad upbringings cause lots of problems into adulthood. It's funny you mention Dahmer because I actually graduated the same high school he went to. Stupid fact but still interesting. Thank you for commenting on my post. You usually bring a good counter-argument to the subject and I like that. Nice friendly debates are fun and help us all increase our understanding of why things are the way they're. Again thank you ladsin!
Oh yeah, you keep saying that I’m implying socialization isn’t a factor though when that’s not what I’m saying. I’m just saying it’s not the only factor. Some people are biologically predisposed, some are as a result of psychology. Gacy? Not likely, sociopathy is based on life circumstances. Damer? Probably, although if he wasn’t also gay he presumably would’ve had different targets.
I never understood, why everyone has to "identify themselves" with their gender.
I have a penis, therefore I am biologically speaking male. But I do not identify myself as a man, I am just someone who happens to have a penis.
I have brown hair. But there is no need to identify myself as a part of the brown-haired-community. Thats a ridiculous example, but honestly, I don't see the difference. These are just features of my body, that I have to accept as they are.
I am just a man, that does not connect me in any way or form to other humans, who happen to be a man too, likewise I do not have a connection to every brown-haired-person on the planet. I don't need a label, I am just myself.
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Anonymous
(18-24)
+1 y
Well, from what I've heard about it you have cisgender people, who identify as their biological sex. Then you have transgender people who do not identify as the sex they were born as.
I think it's important to note that gender and biological sex are not the same thing. Your sex is, well, what's in your pants or your chromosomes. Your gender is how you feel your role is in society whether that be man, woman, or something else.
So transgender people can be male to female or female to male. There have actually been studies done that show that the brain activity of a transgender female matches that of a cisgender female, and same with males. Many scientists are beginning to think that your gender is dependent on how much testosterone enters your brain when you are in the womb.
As far as nonbinary genders go, that's where things get a little more complicated. Not everyone is on the same page when it comes to nonbinary genders. Some people believe in them wholeheartedly while others don't.
Nonbinary means not male or female. It could mean that person is somewhere in the middle or feels both male and female. Nonbinary is usually used as an umbrella term for anyone who doesn't identify as male or female. So like you mentioned the demiboy and demigirls, they're usually considered nonbinary in most cases (I'm not going to assume all because like I said people are not always on the same page with this).
Some people identify solely as nonbinary and may want to be referred to with they/them pronouns. Others might want to identify as something more specific like agender or genderfluid.
Genderfluidity is kind of debated widely though because many people within the LGBT community and outside of it don't believe you can change your gender from one day to another.
There's many other genders that I didn't cover and it's up to you if you want to believe all of this or not. But that was just some of what it was all about.
As I said from my comments on this thread. They have every right to Express how they feel. Facts are facts though. There are only 2 genders. It's proven. Like climate change. I think that the people who actually beleive in nonbinary genders is either that uneducated or simply in denial. Like flat earthers. Again I don't want to sound like I'm attacking them but come on... Nonbinary gender? Really? That's getting ridiculous if you ask me. Is it not?
There is no reason or logic, because it's just playing into people's mental illness. Imagine if we played along with schizophrenic's delusions. "Oh yes, I can hear the spooky voices too. Is your face melting? Yeah, a little bit. Here, lemme clean it up for you..."
I... I don't know if I have the energy to address the LGBTQ community today honestly.
All I can say is stuff is really simple but people have turned this shit insane. It's like logic says 1+1=2 but random people are coming up with 85, 56, or 3456. And we all have to accept their answers and say it's right if they believe it is.
When it comes to what gender you're attracted to I don't give a shit. I'm bisexual myself. But when it comes to genders they aren't 300 hundred of them. It's simple, we're just making shit up now.
And when it comes to wanting to be another gender, why do people care about the specifics so much? If you want to put on heels and you're a male, who cares? Live your life. I don't understand why you have to change what you were born as to act however you want or fuck whoever you want. But that's just me.
Next there will be a "human/animal spectrum" and people will say "I was born a human, but I identify as a koala."
There is no such thing as a "gender spectrum," you are what you were born as, to say otherwise is to admit to mental illness or the sanctioning thereof.
The separation of sex and gender is a new idea. I suspect it's been done purposefully to help facilitate the normalization of mental illness. Outside of relativity uncommon birth defects there are men and women, that's IT. Trans and non binary is delusion at best, an outright lie at best. Same for the so called spectrum.
It all politics all made up BS from the mass media to brainwash people. To them because I wear women lingerie and a few womens clothes. That I must be some transgender or a crossdresser. About my answer. I am freaking man that just happens to like womens clothes. I sleep with women. I like women, I don't want to be a women, I don't want to look like a woman. I just a man that just like clothes of both sexes. Why do I have to have a label? And why do people need a label? My label for myself is Human Male
It has a lot to do with hormones. There have been studies done which show that the brain structure and chemistry of trans people tends to be more similar with that of cis people of the gender they identify with, than with that of cis people of the gender they were assigned at birth.
There have also been studies done which show that the female body views a male fetus as a foreign object. It attempts to feminize it by basically flooding it with female hormones. The more times the body does this, the better it gets at it. This is why biologically male people with more older brothers are more likely to be gay, and are also more likely to identify as women later in life.
Because fuck logic. They deny or are ignorant about the mental, psychological and biological differences. Let's pretend to be blind and support the development of personality and mental disorders.
There are two biological genders, and a debatable number of mental disorder. While not exactly the same, it's really not that different from people who suffer from dissociative limb disorder and other bizarre mental issues that are all collectively part of a decline in the human race.
Because they're born with something in their brain that makes them that way. I don't remember what it's called, kinds like how someone is born bipolar or something like that. It's an imbalance of hormones and something n their brain that makes them that way
I can't understand how someone can feel like they're a different gender, but in the end it doesn't matter if I understand or not. There are a lot of other things I can't understand because I haven't been in other people's shoes. But I can accept them and take them at their word. After all, it's not my life or my place to tell others how to feel about themselves.
I have maybe met like 2 or 3 people that actually believe in all these different dozens of different genders and I live in LA.
I've learned that most SJW types are very loud and proud on the internet and if you aren't at a college campus or on the state capitals steps you won't actually find these people in real life. They make themselves seem like this massive movement on social media but when you step outside your door it's like they don't even exist.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Gender is a social thing, there is nothing biological about gender, so if someone want to call them self any name in the book they can, but there biological sex is either male or female there is no way around that, it’s all about the chromosomes xx or xy
I don’t know, I’ve never felt it so I couldn’t tell you how it feels. But I don’t care, it makes the person happy and they feel free, then go for it. It’s their life, they should live it the way they want to and not how others want them to
It's obvious they are mentally sick that's why they are confused about something what a 4 year old can figure out.
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Anonymous
(18-24)
+1 y
because people are fucking idiots and don't understand that personality doesn't equal gender and not every girl that acts masculine is lesbian or transboy.. and not every boy that acts feminine is gay or transgirl
It's not confusion. It's like how you know that you are male and accept it, they know they and can see they are something on the outside, but that isn't what they feel is right for them.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
What does anybody hope to gain from giving a shit about if someone wants to change their gender? There's nothing to gain. I'm #15, but I don't care about other people's number.
@JenSCDC tell me what is up with the governor of Virginia in black face? Or Joy Behar? Or the lt govenor who has sexually assaulted a woman. According to the way y’all did Kavenough... you have to believe her. The racist are coming to light in the Democratic Party
I’m not buying into their delusional. Nor am I going to date one. I’ve seen transgender women shame straight men because they didn’t want to date them. A straight man would never date a dude. In a dress
@Rissyanne again nobody is forcing you, just treat them with the same respect they treat you. You don't sound very nice, but I'm assuming you call yourself a "Christian".
@Rissyanne you're the one who thinks a cosmic jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood as wine and bread. Yeah, mentally ill.
@Rissyanne I knew the only reason you care it's because of that book of myths the "bible". This has nothing to do with mental illness or self autonomy. It's about forcing your ridiculous religion down people's throat.
To say you didn’t bring it up shows you can’t read.
@Rissyanne again nobody is forcing you, just treat them with the same respect they treat you. You don't sound very nice, but I'm assuming you call yourself a "Christian". This you bringing up religion. I never said a word about. I never claimed to be a Christian. Even if I am it’s none of your business. Dude learn to read.
My question is why did they do that? Was there some kind of event that triggered this? I just don't understand how someone can just say "I'm a girl" and be a girl. I'm sorry. I just can't wrap my mind around it...
With one exception, everyone I know was born the way they are. A girl who always thought she was 100% straight may be surprised to find herself getting turned on by another girl, but the seeds of that desire were always there.
I have a problem with that though. How exactly can she be born that way? She has no knowledge of what sex is, how it works, or what your parts do for you. Can a boy who is let's say 8 years old. Does he know about sex, basic understanding of biology, etc? No. So how can he be born gay if he has no experiences or knowledge of how the world really works?
As I said before. I think our life experiences and the way we're raised pave the way to who we're the rest of our life. It's like a blank memory file. Nothing is in there until you start putting things in there right?
Sexuality is from birth, being a lesbian had nothing to do with gender. But gender is a complicated issue and all the theories about it contradict and disprove the other, I think we should ditch gender altogether and solely focus on sex/biology. That's way this gender issue wouldn't exist.
@SixRexington skip gender? I don't think of that as a solution. I think that we really need to engrain into our future the biological facts about gender (such as there only being two). I would also argue that kids don't need to worry about these issues. I would think an acceptable age to start questioning things about life is once you reach high school. It's important that we accept the LGBTQ community though as I think everyone needs to be accepted. I don't agree with their life choices or their opinions about biology but they have every right to be accepted just as straight people.
But why not just let people express themselves their own way? Which is what gender is supposed to be. Gender from what I understand is the same as personality. Do away with the term and let people know their are only 2 sexes (with few exceptions) and that you can express yourself anyway you want, but you will always be either male or female.
@SixRexington these are kids. I wasn't fully aware about sex until around 3 or 4 grade. Even then with such a small mind I still had a lot of questions. I don't think I fully understood what was being said to me at the time (or I wasn't paying attention). Just let kids be kids up until they start to have questions. Then answer with facts. Not fairyland fiction.
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