How do you feel about the CANZUK (Canada Australia New Zealand United Kingdom) concept?

Question

The poll of over 13,600 people was conducted across Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom from January 1st to March 31st 2018, and reveals continued support in each of the four countries, and individual regions, for reciprocal free movement of citizens.

CANZUK is an idea involving freedom of movement between the above four countries, not for convicted criminals or dole bludgers, but for entrepreneurs, professionals, retirees, students etc. They would be able to live and work in each other's countries, without the requirement to apply for a visa, in effect restoring the rights lost when the UK joined the EU.

There would not be a common government, a common currency or common taxation. What is proposed relates to the rights of citizens only. They might, for example, benefit from the local tuition fees, rather than those charged to third party nationals, and would be entitled to healthcare, if resident in another of the involved countries. Qualifications issued by one country would be recognised as equivalent in the others, without the need to retake basic level professional licences etc.

Would you be in support of this or not?

nightdrot · Accepted Answer

God is in the adjectives and the devil is in the details.

Insofar as this essentially restores the old relationship that existed between the UK and its former Dominion and later Commonwealth partners, there is nothing inherently wrong with this concept. Particularly throwing in the broadly common cultural, linguistic, historical and to some extent constitutional and political heritage these states share.

However, some care ought be taken. The UK is under some strain in terms of the rise of Scottish, and to a lesser degree Welsh and as always Catholic Irish nationalisms. These nationalisms are themselves, in part, the result of a rising populist tide - in the world and not just the UK - and a weakening sense of national cohesion born, in their turn, as a reaction to the transnationalism of a global free market and, more specifically, the European Union.

While the CANZUK concept may lack the "bells and whistles" of a common currency and diminished sovereignty and all the rest that came with the EU, if it comes to be seen as suggesting that national identity is thin and hence optional - easily substituted by broader identities - it could intensify the very cultural and political forces that Brexit was meant, in part, to quell. In that event, the UK would get through the back door that which is sought to block through the front.

The Commonwealth has been an asset to the UK by harkening, particularly through the person of HM the Queen who is its head, by harkening to a common history while being institutionally weak. This CANZUK concept, though there does not appear to be many details, would seem to be a much stronger structure.

Plus, times have changed. The economies of Canada, Australia and New Zealand have changed from what they once were and they represent, i n some ways, competition that they were not before. This means that there will be economic pressures on certain income groups and areas of the UK that immigration and such from CANZUK countries that did not exist prior to Britain joining the EU. Consequently, what worked before may create unintended consequences now.

Long story short, in principle this would seem to be a very benign and potentially beneficial restoration of Britain's historic role and diplomatic and political arrangements. Britain is still a significant global power but it - its very structure - is under stress in ways that it was not before. In that Britain should not make the mistake of absentmindedly and thereby simplistically seeking to restore an ephemeral status quo ante.

As a famous Briton - John Maynard Keynes - once said, "When I see that the facts have changed, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" As Britain rightly moves to restore its sovereignty, it should not assume that nothing changed in the rest of the world while the UK was in the European Union.

Historylover18 · Accepted Answer

I'm Canadian and it seems most of us are all for it since we're already in close ties with the British, Australians and New Zealanders.

Wonderer89 · Accepted Answer

All for it! We already have reciprocal medical care across the UK and NZ so would be open to not needing Visas... tuition I’m iffy about though. We already have an issue with Australians racking up hecs debt (our government education loan system, you don’t have to start paying it back until you’re earning an ok salary) then moving overseas so they avoid paying it

shimmeryns · Accepted Answer

You guys share the same Queen and I did google if you guys actually have this concept after the coins-mixed up thing lol!

dantetheexplorer · Answer

I am only going to be speaking on the trade side of CANZUK, as this is the side of CANZUK that I'm more familiar with.

Disclaimer: the below is my personal opinion, based on my understanding, which may or may not be accurate.

I am a lot more familiar with the Australian and Kiwi side of things. Australia and NZ have had highly integrated economies and free movement agreements between both countries for many decades now.

New Zealand was among the first western countries to sign a trade deal with China.
China is now Australia's largest trading partner - more so than the US. The US only comes third - Japan takes the position of second largest trading partner.

Both Australia and New Zealand have entered into early stages of free trade talks with the EU - in 2018, I believe.

Canada is interesting. Canada - and Australia and New Zealand - are among the 11 nations who have entered the CPTPP Agreement (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership) - which is the new, phoenix-form of the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) that Donald Trump pulled the US out of. Other nations in the CPTPP include Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei, Mexico, Peru, and Chile.

Canada has also recently signed an expanded access agreement with the European Union.
All the Pacific Commonwealth countries are moving rapidly to integrate themselves with Asian economies.

The current British government HAS spoken about entering into expanded trading agreements with its former colonies and Asian trading blocs, including the CPTPP. However, no one is going to be entering into trade talks with the UK until the UK and EU have finished working out their new trading arrangements post-Brexit. This will be a very, very slow process - just see how long it took Brexit to play out.

When Britain entered the EU, there was disruption to its former colonies' economies. In essence, the UK turned its back on the Commonwealth as a trading bloc. Of course, this was a while back, so you won't find any residual enmity in Canberra, Wellington, and Ottawa.

However, one should consider that all three: Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, have lodged formal objections with the World Trade Organization (WTO) over the UK's post-Brexit schedule (trade rules and trade regulations which the UK would be trading under until new agreements are signed), which amounts to blocking the UK from entering the WTO as a stand-alone state.

I also think Australia and New Zealand will bust out a couple of trade moves to protect themselves once Brexit is done and dusted. (Exactly what - well, I'm no economist!)

I'm not saying that any of this makes CANZUK unlikely to come to fruition.
All of the above however, will mean that coming to an agreement on CANZUK, one that can be agreed on by all parties, will be a protracted process and may take 3-4 years to hash out, maybe longer.

However, the idea of CANZUK is a good one, and I hope it becomes reality.

AllThatSweetJazz · Answer

Depends on respective immigration policies.

The issue is that when we open our borders to certain countries, now I as an Australian have to worry about who the member states let into their country.

I don't think I would support *complete* free movement. If you've been a citizen for say 10+ years then I think that could make you eligible. I don't want randos who have come in from non-member states into one of these countries and then be able to go wherever they want once they get through one door.

When refugees turn up on the northern shores, we can here their case for asylum and if we grant it then we will take care of them until they're able to safely return home. But these people are not Australian citizens and it would be absolutely inappropriate for us to allow them to jump on a plane to the UK under this "free movement" policy so they can go be health tourists in the UK and drain the NHS which they haven't paid into at all.

As for long time citizens becoming health tourists, I think that's something of a negative we have to accept that comes with the benefits, but I believe all of the member states have a public option for healthcare. So brits can come here and for healthcare in cases where it's better for them and I can go to the UK for healthcare if it's better for me. That seems reasonable, even beneficial in some cases.

Sensmind · Answer

On an ideal level these agreements work great ie :- Students or qualified workers moving around. The problems begin when you look at the infrasructure of each country. Is the education system, healthcare system way better in any of the countries or how do they treat penisioners. Freedom of movement is a good short term ideal but creates issues when a large number of people make what they perceive as best move for themselves. What you want is for young qualified immigration who can contribute in tax so by the time they have families or are sick or get old have contributed something to the coffers of the state.
I am somewhere in the middle in immigration not for/against open or closed doors but there has to be some fair controls. My political beliefs would be realistic socialist as in do what you can but only to the level you can afford.

monkeynutts · Answer

We have to be very careful, Britian is in a very precarious position, economically, socially, much needs to be done before such a long term investment that would chance the demographic, and structure of our societies. Unfortunately many of the former colonies are not necessarily made up of what I classify as very trustworthy people, it will be difficult for us to make this work and not cause civil strife in Australia and Canada. besides apprehension, not really liking change, the idea is very interesting. See what happens.

ElectricErger · Answer

The Commonwealth countries have always had a similar culture and ideology, so it's not a fat jump. In fact, I would go so far as to say it is ideal as it would be a very EU like structure which gave lots more power to the member States than each could get on their own. Vital when the top economies are being power hungry (US, China, Russia)

AlexanderBrunnrgaard · Answer

Why not, why not expand the benefits of the Commonwealth. It'd not only foster good relations between these nations, it would elevate the importance of the Royal House, which already enjoys great acclaim in each country for their support in development, education and finance.

MrHopper · Answer

I see no problems really, we all have the same Queen already and politically get on fine... They mostly settled by the UK any way with the exception of Canada. But... I can see resistance from the native population and rightly so, they lost their countries once already...

If criminals are not allowed free travel I guess that means Australia is fucked 😉 #pommebanter

bolverk · Answer

I'd support it as we are very much alike and always worked well together and talked out any problems we've had between us even though I'm not too enamoured with the current political leadership of Canada and New Zealand just as there's people in both of them who are not to keen on what's going on in the UK at the moment.

A-man-22 · Answer

Yes I'm English, keep the government's separate but allow more open trade/travel.

Many people in Canada, Australia and New Zealand have families connected to Britain.

These countries wanted to be separate from Britain and that's fine, neither government should force the other to do something they don't want to.

Yet friendly agreements and deals are helpful to all.

wittymilf · Answer

The only down fall would be the influx of Australians 🙄😌. Nz currently has this agreement with schwartzbard. Random I know

WolfsRoze · Answer

I like all these countries except the UK. However I feel this should be their decision... Sounds like the UK is at it again... Just think how much power the queen has and all the land she "owns"... having a foothold in every country a Christian church sits?

Xoirwinkan · Answer

I like the idea of the commonwealth. If you watch British TV comedy, you get Ozzies and Kiwis once in a while, like its natural. They fit well together, with still enough differences to make fun of each other, in a good way.

DiegoO · Answer

No idea. It sounds really good, and it will be really good if it's managed the right way. Who knows, it may also end as a disaster. Great ideas, and political agendas, always come with great risk.

MackToday · Answer

Looks like a globalist scheme to scatter genocide migrants around. If they can't get them into one country they get them in through another. Best to sever all such ties and keep nations totally separate.

TheKack · Answer

This is coming from an American, so I don't really care and have no stake in this, but don't each of these countries have their own problems to attend to without inviting additional people to create more while trying to rebuild a mini British empire?

Levin · Answer

Too sensible and decent an idea to actually be implemented. But I think all three of those countries would probably rather not have British citizens flood their shores!

CaptainSmartass · Answer

I support it. It's a good idea. Sorta like a Commonwealth version of the EU, but without all the bad shit. Simples...

Waffles731 · Answer

Honesty you could even open it up to rhe whole commonwealth realn. You all share q head of state

Walrus_au · Answer

So, I am from 1 and living in another. That idea would benefit myself and my family. So I like it!

DeeDeeDeVour · Answer

I'm wondering which of these nations & citizens stands to gain the most.

How do you feel about the CANZUK (Canada Australia New Zealand United Kingdom) concept?

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