Do you think self defense laws should be updated to also allow people to defend their businesses and property against looters? (Page 2)
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Seem like cool dudes we could use more of them out here
I’m restraining myself to keep from getting into this.
Huh?
If you're taking something by force inside my building in my state you're getting carried out. Morale of the story don't live in these perpetually democratic controlled enclaves where criminals have more rights.
New York is one of the most liberal states in the country and their are laws on the book here that allow you to shoot arsonists and people who are trying to forcefully enter your property so I'm sure the vast majority of other states allow it
Yes looters will stay away if they know apoo is packing a 30 clip.
In my state it's called stand your ground and castle law. It's why there aren't roots here, legally we can kill rioters if they come on my property..
Passive defence is the best, if your store is locked down so hard, it would be hard to loot it. So they have to move to easier targets.
Demonstrably untrue. People are walking around (or riding around) with crowbars and sledgehammers - you aren't going to be able to fortify a retail business in a downtown area against that. Plus, you have people firebombing buildings.
Would you risk 10 or 20 years of your life's work and everything you own on YOUR ability to fortify a retail building you were leasing?
You can if you really want. It's just expensive. Firebombs needs burning material and a way in. A crowbar won't help against solid hard walls. You need to get it into a crack and it also needs to apply more force then the material around can resist. But these people really need a strong police force that simply arrest them all. Looting is a criminal act. In a good society you shouldn't need to barricade your store.
Very thoughtful question there buddy, with everything happening right now and knowing that change is the only constant thing it is a good idea to update self defense laws to include protection of properties and businesses against looters.
You shouldn't be allowed to murder someone over something as stupid as property
You shouldn’t be allowed to loot and burn down businesses over some guy you never heard of before.
Don't try to loot and destroy, and you survive. How does that sound?
Its not stupid, thats people's livelihood at stake. Just recently there was a man that put his entire life savings into a business that ended up getting destroyed during the riots.
@Hunter7754 even if your livelihood is destroyed (it's not, there is insurance for this), that is NOT a reason to murder someone!
Then that someone shouldn't try to destroy the livelihood of someone else :)
It's that simple. Leave people alone and you live long enough to realize it was the right decision.
Again there is no reason to destroy property over the death of some guy they never heard of.
No one really cares about that guy, everyone from the person who choose to film George Lloyd being killed instead of saying something to the cops, to the people threatening “no justice no peace.” To the looters, to the arsonists.
It’s all just an excuse to steal and attack people.
My property is worth note to me than some criminal’s life.
Insurance doesn't cover riots and domestic terrorism. And people need STRONG incentives NOT to attack other people or their properties and livelihoods.
If someone is coming at my house or my business with a firebomb, they are CHOOSING to forfeit their own lives. I didn't make that choice - they did.
Each individual person is responsible for their own actions, and the consequences of such extreme actions are extreme.
There is absolutely NO justification for rioting, looting, arson, and physically attacking innocent people who are just trying to get away, and those who do so anyway should expect to pay a high price. No excuses, no exceptions.
@MrOracle funny how it's all dudes trying to argue it's ok to murder someone over something as stupid as property...
Funny how all you have left to defend your stupid statement is a sexist comment.
@Guanfei no, you are wrong. Murder is wrong, especially over something as stupid as property. A life matters more than stupid stuff.
We'll talk about that when the looters will be at your door, "asking" you for your stuff under the threat of beating you to death.
@Guanfei give them my stuff and get my insurance money. If you're advocating murder, then go to a fascist country. You seem to be into dictatorships.
Insurance won't pay you shit since you gave them your stuff :)
And that won't spare you a beating anyway. And that is if you're lucky and don't end up raped or dead.
But go on, if you want to let any criminal take all your stuff, and come back regularly to do it again since they know you will just obey like a scared dog, that's your problem.
Other people with a bit more dignity won't just look down. Be a target if you want.
@Guanfei first of all, I don't live in a hellhole where people go to your house and steal things and then still attack you. If that is at all a possibility, I would move. Second, insurance will pay for it if you are robbed, no big deal. Third, that STILL doesn't give me a right to murder someone. Murder is murder. A person's life is not worth more than your stupid stuff. Who cares about property when it's someone's life.
People who aren't mindless submissive dogs. Seriously read the bullshit you've just vomited. You're basically ready to give up absolutely everything just to make sure you won't hurt someone who would shoot you down for fun if he could. Ridiculous.
@Guanfei your trying to argue that a person's life is worth less than some random property. That's fascism. That's a dictatorship. It's psychotic. I can't believe I have to explain to you that murder is wrong. ESPECIALLY for something stupid like property that you just have insurance for.
Don't throw words you apparently don't understand, kid. Defending your property is the most basic right you should enforce. But next time there is a riot, I hope you'll give your address to looters, so they can take all your things instead of stealing it from someone who isn't a sheep.
@Guanfei lol, listen to yourself. Property is just stuff, who cares about it? People shouldn't be so attached to material things anyway. But certainly not worth more than a human life. You're not a gun nut too are you?
YOU don't care about it, but at this point I'm starting to think you'd let anyone murder you so you won't have to defend yourself and hurt a criminal.
But most people worked hard for what they have, they put time and efforts for it. Unlike the sheep you are, they won't offer it to some low-life whose life revolve around ruining other people's lives.
@Guanfei are you actually from france? You are the least french person I've ever met. People in france are not so pro-murder...
You don't know much about France I guess.
But you're partially right, we're not pro-murder. That is, murder committed by the same scum you'd give everything to protect. Also, we can't get a gun as easily as you. If we could, trust me, our own criminal wouldn't have such an easy life.
But you know, protecting what you care for is universal. In any country, most people will refuse to let criminals rule and be stripped of everything. And when shit goes down, guess who will get out of it unharmed?
ProTip: it's not you.
@Guanfei you are not a good person, please stop talking to me
In fact, I am, since, unlike you, I care more about innocent people than criminals. But yeah, this is pointless, and a waste of time. Enjoy being robbed.
@Guanfei stop talking to me! You are a morally corrupt person. Please just stop... you're gross.
@MingZhao you are one of the most Warp minded person I have seen on the internet.
And that is saying something.
Yer dumb
@mingzhao
I agree with a lot you've said. Material things can be replaced. If someone stole my TV set I can easily replace it. But if someone was going to kill my wife I would shoot.
@David92506 what if someone is stealing ur life savings? Shoot them
@Shamalien
Money can be replaced but not a life.
@Shamalien
I'm not saying we shouldn't take precautions.
If a thief was going to break into a house and steal a TV and knew you carried a loaded gun, he wouldn't rob you.
If he knew your neighbor didn't carry a weapon the thief would more than likely rob the neighbor.
But we can employ cautionary measures like an alarm system where the police would be there in 10 minutes once it goes off.
@Shamalien Shooting someone is murder in Canada, I know this for a fact.
@mingzhao
Read this article. It's about a husband who kills his wife because of sleepwalking and a bad dream. He walks free.
www.theguardian.com/.../brian-thomas-dream-strangler-tragedy
@David92506 how is this an argument for murder? You should not murder. Murder bad. Not worth stupid property or possessions. They can be replaced.
you guys are all dumb as fuck, I don't give a shit what the law says, if somebody is threatening you by invading your personal property, and you ask them to leave and they start stealing your shit, you can shoot them, that's called FAIRNESS.
Keep squabbling over stupid man made laws that actually don't mean anything, I'll be sitting here in NATURAL LAW RIGHTS which no amount of argument will change. If you don't wanna get shot, don't go breaking into peoples stores how about? Yeah I know a life can't be replaced, that has nothing to do with this, I'm not everyone's babysitter, I'm a man with some property and you'd best know to respect my boundaries or there will be trouble
@David92506 Some lives aren't worth replacing.
Loot or vandalize my shit and I gun you down. We can talk about fairness over your lifeless corpse.
You don't know much about fascism Ming. It was Nazi fanatics who were burning and looting property on Kristalnacht while the authorities watched approvingly.
@RyanEC a human life is worth more than stupid possessions.
who cares about property when compared to a human life?
Traditionally, scant possessions were all that kept you alive. That is why they hung horse thieves; steal a man's horse and you literally endanger his life. In the old days that is.
The property owner doesn't just tap them on the shoulder and blast. They are warned even though they know very well what they're doing is wrong and illegal. The looters have no sympathy and are using the wrongful killing of a black man as an excuse to ravage small businesses, the community, and race-relations all at once. I actually don't advocate for the militarization of police, but when it comes to a private individual, they are given the right to carry a gun for a reason, and that reason isn't for killing innocent people.
Again I thought the whole point of the 2nd amendment was so people can defend themselves and their property.
If you're only allowed to use your gun at the gun range then what's the point?
so you saying the Travon Martin - Stand your ground rules should be there and the utterance "I feared for my life" and someone empties out their clip on you is the right way to go?
So if 5 guys with baseball bats come at you, are you just going to stand there and take the beating?
Don’t distort my words to suit your narrative.
I believe in if u come into my place of business an u want to rob me or loot me in any kind of a way I think u should get mail time Just like all other so yes I do think we should be able to.
God Bless
Not to be funny but I thought that was already a thing.
Same
Absolutely, the "Roof Koreans" knew they had to defend their property from marauding blacks during the Rodney King riots.
Best thing to do is to insure your business and make sure it's hard to enter even with force. But yes, I think the business owners should have the full right to unleash a hail of bullets at anyone trying to mess with their livelihood.
is that law not already in place? i thought you are allowed to defend your property from invaders in america?
That is a good question. Sounds right and dangerous and a possible mess waiting to happen. Still a good idea.
Yes, absolutely. Civilians should be able to defend their businesses and property with lethal force against the mob if necessary
100% yes, people should be able to defend their livelihood against violent attackers.
in many places. self defense laws also count for your property as well.