Why do Republicans want the US to be a third world country?

[JenSCDC]

They want an environmental wasteland filled with bigotry, religious extremism, poor healthcare, and massive income inequality. Why are they so evil?

[hellionthesagereborn]

God your stupid. They don't want that, you have no idea what the hell your talking about. Currently leftists (because they are anything but liberal) are burning down cities, murdering people, executing conservatives all while leftist politicians call for ever more violence and your saying that conservatives are the bad guy? I'm sorry but your an idiot. You can't even be bothered to understand their position or ideas but your going to judge them, only stupid people do that.

First off our country is the cleanest in the world. out of all of the nations who joined the paris climate accords, not a single one of them met their goal, most actually increased their emissions, meanwhile the US which dropped out actually did meet the stated goal and was the only nation to reduce our emissions by a significant margin and more then any other nation. We have the most national parks to the point were if combined would be the fifth largest nation in the world. If you look at pollution the biggest contributers are in asia and africa, the US isn't even in the top twenty let alone a significant contributer.

You are literally being bigoted, bigotry is being intolerant towards others opinions and ideas and your literally claiming that any one who doesn't think exactly like you is evil (your exact fucking words). So yeah, your wrong their too.

They haven't pushed religion let alone religious extremism.

Our healthcare system is quite literally the best in the entire world with US citizens having seven times higher survival rates for most cancers and traumatic injuries compared to other western nations. We also pay considerablly less too if you actually bother to look at tax expenditures compared to insurance costs in the US (which of course you don't because that would require you to consider that maybe you might be wrong, something you are incapable of doing obviously (otherwise you would be asking why conseravatives have the opinions they do instead of projecting a shitty straw man, ad hominem attack on all of them without ever trying to understand their view).

We don't have massive income inequality, also it wouldn't matter if we did. The US's average income is higher then most other nations, our cost of living is half of western nations, our poor are better off then europes poor by a significant margin. You claim we have "income inequality" i. e. a wealth gap and of course we do, because when your making 54,000 a year (which is ten to twenty thousand more then other nations) and you also have some of the richest people in the world who are billionaires, their is going to be a gap. The solution however isn't to destroy the system so that every one makes 30,000 a year, its to acknowledge that when you have this much wealth, even wealthy people look poor in comparison. Don't be greedy, you don't have the righ to steal what other people earned (you would have jeff bezos's money, but you wouldn't be responsible for his loss if he had failed in creating amazon. He quit his job, built his company in his garage and if he had failed you wouldn't have been their to pay off his morgage but you feel entitled to his wealth now that he has acquired it? How is that not selfish to the extreme? Rhetorical question, it is selfish and your demanding that others give what they have worked hard for to you simply because you want it. Its disgusting).

In short, the group of people (leftists) who would destory our society that is the freest one of the richests, and most benevelonent the world has ever seen are the ones that are evil, conseravatives are just pointing out that what your doing is going to kill a lot of people for absolutely nothing.

[Waffles731]

There are 3 types of Republicans from

1. The Brainwashed. The largest share of Republicans, These are often decent people who are basically indoctrinated from the time they grew up into believing the Gop is trying to help them.
2. The racists and bigots, these are your gay haters and KKK members, these people are the second largest group and are total pieces of shit.
3. The wealthy, these are simply people without morals or conscience and in their soulless desire to accumulate power they are willing to destroy the world and America. These are your Trumps, your Bushes, your oil men, your tobacco executives. They hate America and pretend to be Patriots

[mamamai]

Republicans are racist? Yet the leftist literally make everything about race. We republicans want equal opportunities for all. Leftist want to make it so minorities have the upper hand, they ignore the fact that poor whites are just as disadvantaged as poor blacks. And rich blacks are just as advantaged as rich whites.. which means race isn’t the problem. Income is

[Waffles731]

@mamamai okay let's go down the list of why you are wrong.
1. The democratic party encompasses centrists and some left of center elements.
2. No you don't want equal opportunities, you shun any policies that are proven to work by Western Europe such as subsidized college, universal healthcare, and the like yet you want to constantly decrease taxes on the wealthy. That ain't equal opportunities.
3. There are racial problems in our society that most Democrats want address such as yes systematic racism that is inbuilt into many parts of society, and police brutality, if Breonna Taylor was white this wouldn't be fucking happening because the cop would be in jail.
4. The people who would benefit most from many of the policies advocated by the left are the poor both black and white you ignore this because it suits you to think that somehow Black Americans are somehow at an advantage in society when the opposite is true.

In short, get educated or get fucked

[darkcloud1945]

Hey you idiot try N. Y. C. everything is done for the minorities school test are marked on a curve fire dept test do not count for black automatic jobs they can't even spell their own names welfare free hospitals free doctors free food. People a shitting on the streets. The idiot mayor giving everything free but the city is falling apart and the dope from Park Slope find millions to paint black lives matter on the streets around N. Y. C.. BUT NOTHINGTO HELP PEOPLE KEEP THEIR JOBS. The Gov put active covid 19 people in nursing homes murdering up to 11,000 people [it is Trumps fault]. Oh by the way the state is run by THE DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST PARTY.. Democrats are still running the plantations

[mamamai]

The right: trump just signed a deal to give 500 billion to build up black communities, and is implementing the voucher system for schools so that anyone can go to the best public schools and makes public schools have to compete to be better. He also made kkk officially a terrorist organization. We also want a fare vote on all sides. Lower taxes so poor people can use their money how they like.

The left: How dare you give black peoples the opportunity to build themselves up, they need us white privileged people!
Also throw out ballets, cheat on elections (Ilhan), and suing to take a third party candidate off the ballot
Says they want justice for blacks but ignore all the black children being shot at, while crying for criminals.
Want higher taxes which is worse for poor people. It means we (yes I am poor.) can’t choose our own health care, choose what to do with our money. Meanwhile positions launder that money and the rich (on both sides) evade taxes through legal loopholes and charities

[Waffles731]

@mamamai wow 500 billion out of a massive u. s budget.

That doesn't make up for enabling white supremacists like the Proud Boys, engaging in repeated voter supression of minorities, a long history of personal racism, and all that other shit.

There's a reason Trump has like 6% of black voters

[mamamai]

@Waffles731 proud boys was started and ran by an Afro Cuban. How the hell are they white supremists

[Waffles731]

@mamamai they weren't started by an Afro-Cuban.

It was started by a Irish-Canadian named Gavin Mcinnes and you might as well be saying I can't be racist because I have a black friend

[mamamai]

The right: trump just signed a deal to give 500 billion to build up black communities, and is implementing the voucher system for schools so that anyone can go to the best public schools and makes public schools have to compete to be better. He also made kkk officially a terrorist organization. We also want a fare vote on all sides. Lower taxes so poor people can use their money how they like.

The left: How dare you give black peoples the opportunity to build themselves up, they need us white privileged people!
Also throw out ballets, cheat on elections (Ilhan), and suing to take a third party candidate off the ballot
Says they want justice for blacks but ignore all the black children being shot at, while crying for criminals.
Want higher taxes which is worse for poor people. It means we (yes I am poor.) can’t choose our own health care, choose what to do with our money. Meanwhile positions launder that money and the rich (on both sides) evade taxes through legal loopholes and charities

[scarlett774]

I think it mainly has to do with their strong opinions on capitalism and socialism, capitalism will literally drive this country into the dirt and they take climate change, science and the environment for a joke, which is extremely stupid and ignorant.

[888theGreat]

you are a joke, keep making these statements, I can use a laugh every day

[scarlett774]

You won’t be laughing when your dead...

[888theGreat]

Honey pie, I have thousands and thousands ounces of silver and many grams of gold, plus rhodium and palladium and Platinum. I will be a King in this situation.

[888theGreat]

It is the Democrats trying to make US a third world country by shutting down economy over a super cold that kills less than 1% of population , by punishing companies that make a profit, and by killing babies via abortion so we have no future tax base. Not to mention allowing stupid , uneducated, foreign people with diseases into our country taking jobs from Americans. Have you been to Mexico or Central America? They throw their trash on the ground and in pollute their water and live like wild animals.

[sszatkow]

No republicans want a wasteland. Nobody does...

The root of it is that we have a country in which there are urban voters and rural voters, and the values are very different. You might rephrase the question and still keep it simple by asking why republicans don’t want anything to change. They want america now to be america ten years ago or twenty years ago... where they grew up. That’s familiar. Metalworking and manufacturing and churches. Rural people also don’t see the same need for welfare. They know of a need, but for the most part since they have’t looked on the need every day, or felt it or known people bearing it, it’s not real. That’s a universal thing in empathy... and it’s a rational evolved thing because if you’ve never seen something it might not even be real.

I think the question fails to appreciate the... ironically the diversity of people who live in this country. We have all kinds.

[JenSCDC]

You're wrong that empathy is universal- just look at how Republicans are against the Equality Act.

[sszatkow]

I was not really informed on the contents of that piece of legislature, so I read it. They are changing a lot with that one act. There are some sections that I think should maybe be discussed separately.

[sszatkow]

Maybe sec 7 (b) (3) and (c) (2), which wishes to amend the civil rights act to insert “enterprise, if, in a situation in which sex is a bona fide occupational qualification, individuals are recognized as qualified in accordance with their gender identity,”. That seems ridiculous. For instance, to sell men’s clothing you’d want to hire a man to model it.

Also section (7) (h). I would integrate the rest of the economy first before compelling the military to integrate... just because soldiers are putting their lives on the line. US business owners who did not previously want to hire gay or trans people can be asked to bear a little discomfort. I’m not willing to ask the same of soldiers with their lives depending on cohesion within a unit. I think that could wait. The military will integrate on its own when it thinks the risk of gay or trans inclusion originating strife within units leading to death is nominal.

Section (9)(b)(2). The locker room thing. I personally am not prepared to have naked female genetalia in a men’s locker room.

I was going to challenge the adoption thing, but this amicus curiae brief (Child Well-Being in Same-Sex Parent Families) says those children come out fine... so I’m unopposed.

if they legitimately wanted to fix the employment issue, they could probably pass that. The most controversial parts of this act are not the well advertised parts. For the sake of transparency to the American people and the ease of passing the important parts of the act, the aforementioned should be their own acts.

It’s actually pretty deceitful to put forth this act when the authors know republicans (and at the current time the majority of the population) would not support it because of the military thing and the locker room thing and the bona fide sex thing, and then call republicans unempathetic. It’s kind of like a trap. It’s a falsely advertised act.

[JenSCDC]

"Section (9)(b)(2). The locker room thing. I personally am not prepared to have naked female genitalia in a men’s locker room." You do know that the world doesn't revolve around you, don't you? If you don't like someone's genitalia, then don't stare at it in the locker room.

[sszatkow]

Doesn’t revolve around the one girl who wants to use the locker room either.

[sszatkow]

By your own logic, it revolves around the majority. That would be the guys like me who use the locker room every day.

[slatyb]

Basically the Trump voters are white men without a college degree. They have been left behind through no fault of their own, feel disrespected, and are angry. They are suffering and want others to suffer too. They know Trump is a vandal but they don't care.

[888theGreat]

I support Trump and have degree. Quit listening to media. They tell lies 90% of the time.

[JenSCDC]

@888theGreat "They tell lies 90% of the time." Please provide a citation.

[888theGreat]

Just watch the news , they prove it for me all the time. Russia winning election for Trump , a lie , proven. They said Trump did illegal stuff on taxes, lie, now they know he made little money, proven. Pee showers , lie, made up by Hillary. I could go for hours.

[Wewladdy]

Why do democrats want the US to be a third world country?

They want an environmental wasteland filled with bigotry, religious extremism, poor healthcare, and massive income inequality. Why are they so evil?

Ya see what I did there? I didn't even have to edit it to make a bullshit claim. Could've added stuff about open borders and freebies but that woulda been overkill.

[JenSCDC]

You made no sense whatsoever.

[Wewladdy]

Do I really need to break it down for you?

You made nonsensical claims. I made nonsensical claims. Neither of us providing evidence, just pure emotion.
You need logic. Unless of course you're simply lacking, and don't know how to get it, so are driven purely by emotion and what you're told to feel.

[OceanMelon]

Damn

[Marriedwith2]

I firmly believe they lost their minds when Obama became President, their impotent hate and feelings of inferiority to the scary Blacks exploded when their delusion of being superior shattered upon one becoming President...

The Mass shootings... the stupid conspiracy theories... the shameless projection of their snowflakeness...

And before some right-wing incel comments on it, Obama is black enough that Trumptards would lynch him if they could

[888theGreat]

Obama the Socialist , The one that wanted to punish white people for being majority. The guy who hated America and still does. The one who illegally spied on Trump with invented evidence. The one who lied to a judge .

[IlluminatiExposed]

@888theGreat Fake news.

[MCheetah]

Why are people in 2020 STILL retarded enough to think all of the world's issues boils down to "Republicans are bad' or "Democrats are bad." ANYONE who thinks this is too much of a complete and utter idiot to deserve any influence whatsoever on how the world works and I'm glad they don't actually have any and just mouth of their asinine childish black-and-white opinions on the internet.

TL;DR: THEY ARE ALL F*CKING BAD, DUM-DUMS!

[ManHater]

Why so lazy women like you don't have to work but get free stuff because you don't want to work? I'm sorry but life is survival of the fittest I worked 79 hours last week and took home 4 k. Do I want to pay taxes so lazy people cN get a free ride off my hard work? No!

[888theGreat]

a 21 year old could, I can't. What kind of work?

[ManHater]

@888theGreat Pipeline.

[888theGreat]

Wow , big money. Thanks to Trump.

[ManHater]

@888theGreat Hey oil runs the world not your fruit cake feelings in sissy school.

[888theGreat]

What?

[NorthwestRider]

I think both Democrats and Republicans want to see this country to become a third world shithole like Nigeria or Uganda

This is why we need a powerful aggressive progressive populist party to rise up and kick the Democrats and the Republicans out of power

[888theGreat]

we need fewer snot nosed 26 year old punks that don't know anything and just posts stupid comments.

[NorthwestRider]

@888theGreat

In the same comment where I am attacking the Democrats, you called me a snot nose 26 year old punk lol

[NorthwestRider]

@888theGreat Are you a closeted Democrat lol

[888theGreat]

Interesting, because I read words like BOTH and THEY

[NorthwestRider]

@888theGreat And you think I am some Democrat who loves Biden lol

[Anonymous]

They only care about maximizing and maintaining the wealth of a very very small number of Americans and are happy to screw over every single other person to do it

[hellionthesagereborn]

Oh? Is that why most billionaires are on the left? Because conservatives want to makes sure the left keeps their money? You don't know anything about the right at all do you?

[Opinion Owner]

@hellionthesagereborn rich don’t pay taxes lol, they write the rules. Look at trump, paid no taxes, didn’t even give a cent to charity Last year. Republicans are all about keeping the wealthy wealthy at the expense of the 99%

[hellionthesagereborn]

Okay so your now completely shifting the goal post. First you said republicans only protect the rich, now your sidestepping that by trying to bring up that the rich don't pay taxes (and they do, but its a more complicated affair because the left doesn't want a flat tax, they want to give people the ability to dodge taxes for one reason or another and the rich are able to pay accountants to find every single loop hole to avoid paying taxes (so they are actively protecting the rich while screwing over the middle class and poor who can't afford accountants to exploit said loopholes (which every one who pays taxes would do because no one wants to sacrifice their earnings to the government).

Second, Trump has been donating his entire paycheck to charity for the past four years, you know that he had ONE year were he paid less in taxes (income tax not taxes in general (business assets and things like that are still taxed but they are taxed differently) which is a clear sign that this is not the norm because they are not pointing to twenty years ago or fifteen years ago because they know that it will show numbers they (the left) doesn't want people to see. Also it wouldn't even matter because again, every one wants to pay less in taxes, why would I be pissed off if some one suceeded in that, especially some one who's first order of business was to reduce taxes for every one (but the rich (despite the left saying otherwise its provably false, the rich were the only ones that didn't see a tax reduction (they saw a 1% and the very rich didn't see any)).

[Reaperbot666]

stop watching and listening to only main stream media. don't get most of your news from click bait and memes on social media either. because they only beat down on the right and up fit the left. when both parties have their pros and cons.

[Hawner]

It's not that they are evil but that they think what the do will lead the country to a prosper era, a sort of paradise. They think that and won't listen to those who say they are wrong.

[MittenstheGlove]

No. They simply don’t want to allow anyone to maybe be better than they are. That is evil and they are miserable.

[Anonymous]

Why is the left support the destruction of our inner cities by burning, and looting? The minorities that live there no longer have access to pharmacies or grocery stores. Many others lost their jobs because their place of employment was burned down

[MittenstheGlove]

We tried to prevent this like decades ago through political reform. Why does the right allow authoritarian government and why is it so adverse to change and preventative measure?

Progressives tried to prevent this but to no avail.

[Opinion Owner]

@MittenstheGlove The destruction is happening because the democrat mayors and governors are allowing it to happen.

[KrakenAttackin]

@MittenstheGlove No bro, no. What we are seeing IS progressives in action. You are a domestic terror group. You are an enemy of all Americans.

[MittenstheGlove]

The destruction is happening because of civil unrest due to our nonsensical justice system.

Lmao. Enemy of All Americans. The enemy is the capitalists you masturbate to. Progressives tried to prevent the boiling point. Peacefully, I may add. Nothing changed. This is a result.

Our entire country is fundamentally about change. That’s the most American thing ever.

[Opinion Owner]

@MittenstheGlove Antifa doesn't give a shit about BLM and BLM is only a handful of black people. There aren't huge number of black people rioting and looting.

Do you really believe that Antifa would be allowed to get away with this if there was a democrat president? They are quickly squashed in Republican cities and many of these foolish kids are facing FEDERAL Charges. That means that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and end up in Federal prison. not some local jail or community service.

[MittenstheGlove]

So here is the thing, people claim BLM isn’t rioting and some people claim they are. So, I stopped fighting that mixed bag. It gets me no where.

I don’t know enough about Antifa to draw conclusions on that in regards to Republicans but I know they don’t like Trump.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

How many of these people have you actually broke bread with? You'd probably find they're just normal folk like you. Who told you Republicans are all evil scum-suckers? Coz whoever convinced you of that probably has an agenda of their own, and I promise you, their agenda won't be for the benefit of mankind.

[JenSCDC]

You mean to say that oppressed minorities such as LGBT people aren't real people?

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Uhh, what?

[JenSCDC]

When's the last time you saw a Republican who thought that LGBT people deserved rights?

[JenSCDC]

It's scrum suckers who don't feel that everyone has rights.

[MittenstheGlove]

I don’t at all agree with your opinion, man.

Republicans literally feed on some fear and hatred that somehow, someone will be better than them if given a push.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

"When's the last time you saw a Republican who thought that LGBT people deserved rights?"

Like, yesterday.

But anyway, clearly everyone here is totally missing the point of my comment. It's because you think "my side = good, their side = evil" that your country is so divided right now. The reality is a lot more boring: most people on both ends of the political spectrum are mostly the same. Sure there are the extremists on both the left and right, but most people are not extremists. If you really believe otherwise, you probably need to step outside your echo chamber of choice (left or right, doesn't matter) and actually interact with people you normally wouldn't.

[MittenstheGlove]

If we were really the same then why aren’t they voting more leftwards?

We may both not be millionaires or even watch $100k a year, but one of them is literally voting against making this country more sustainable for all.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

@MittenstheGlove you've lost me

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Is your grievance with specific republican politicians?

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

I'm talking about republican voters... Not politicians

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Politicians are all corrupt. They're just each corrupt in their own way

[MittenstheGlove]

Man, that’s the problem. No one can tell anyone how to vote. Voters make a conscious decision. If one chooses to vote away people’s rights because you simply don’t like them.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

@MittenstheGlove That doesn't really answer my question, you seem to be on a completely different train of thought.

I have yet to see a shred of evidence supporting the notion that "[all republic voters] want an environmental wasteland filled with bigotry, religious extremism, poor healthcare, and massive income inequality, [and are evil]."

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

I never brought up specific alleged anti-LGBT or anti-human-rights legislation. Again, show me all these evil republicans voting to make homosexuality illegal, or whatever it is you're claiming. Show me the legislation. Show me the bills being voted through on the senate floor. The burden of proof is not on me, I'm not the one who made the claim that all Republicans are evil.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

But you're right on one part, voters DO make a conscious decision. And yet I've seen no attempts here to actually reach across the political dividing line and ASK those voters WHY they voted for the political party of choice.

Another point of contention: voters don't actually vote on what bills to pass. I believe that falls to the U. S. Senate (correct me if I'm mistaken, American politics are not my native area of concern coz I live in the U. K.). If you don't like specific legislation, then by all means, get out there and vote those legislators out of office, or take your picket line to the U. S. Senate and make your voice heard. But the voting public do not pass legislation. They may influence it indirectly by voting for politicians who have a clear bias towards certain legislation. But you can't infer a causal claim that "right wingers are all evil" just because a theoretical proportion of those voters supported a politician who pushed forwards some piece of legislation that theoretically harms other people. If you wanna play that game, then I could say the same thing about Democrat voters, on the basis that certain Democratic politicians have pushed through regressive or harmful policies through the Senate over the years. It's a zero sum game where EVERYONE ends up being labeled as "evil". It's not a good train of thought. It's not productive.

[MittenstheGlove]

There is no theory here. Right-Wingers are damn conscious of their decisions. Democrats aren’t really any better and are typically the same way. The progressives are the people opting for things like Universal Healthcare.

You’re in the U. K. which is much more progressive than American standards.

Anyone daft enough to put religion as a centerpiece of their politics and corporations as the overseers are pretty much evil.

Voters, vote the people in, even if it is a soft vote. The checks and balances are very well designed to prevent the overextension of our leaders.

But let’s stop here. Republicans have no issue with people suffering as long as it isn’t them. Their votes account for as much.

Also, destruction of all involved evils is progress. Which is why a lot of people are calling it government reform.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

@MittenstheGlove Merely being in favour of "progress" doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with you is "anti-progress". Human nature has certain through-lines that we all share. We all want to be better off than our parent's generation. We all want a good, healthy life, free from autocratic interference or being subjected to the punitive crushing weight of oligarchies. The question is how do we achieve these eternal, unifying goals? And the answer of course, is "it depends". It varies by region, by temperament, by voting history, by personal preference, and so on. It's an infinite regression where every single person on planet Earth will compute a slightly different answer, just because their personal 'algorithm' for solving the equation is slightly different from everyone else's. And so what's likely to happen-- because America is historically a two-party system-- is that all those multi-variate 'answers' to the eternal question will invariably be squashed down, out of necessity, into a binary A or B voting decision.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

If Candidate A seems to represent an individual's needs with 12% parity, and Candidate B represents those needs by 11.9%, then the vote will go to Candidate A. It's a flawed system, but it's the system the voting public inherited from their predecessors, so it is what it is. Now, at no point in that "A or B" decision-making process did something as fundamental as "moral evil" or "hatred of gays" come into the equation at any kind of causal, universal level. Maybe SOME voters hate gay people and want to shoot them out of a cannon, and so they'll vote for whichever candidate appears more likely to also wanna shoot gay people out of a cannon. It would, of course, be better for everyone if NO candidates were allowed to run on a platform of "shooting gay people out cannons", and that's why you have those protections like the U. S. constitution, the civil rights movement, anti-discrimination laws etc. And those protections should 100% be defended from would-be political saboteurs. But again, the fundamental error of this whole thread is the assumption that "well, anyone who didn't vote for the candidate I voted for must wanna shoot gay people out of a cannon", when the likely reality is that only a very small minority actually want that. Maybe there's debate on exactly what % those people make up, and maybe "anti-LGBT" people swing to the right more than they swing to the left, for whatever reasons may correlate to such a trend. But there's no causal "law" or high-level principle that can be ascertained from the actions, voting decisions, and internalised homophobia of a group who's size is neither fully determined, and who's views consistently fail to be vindicated and validated by the silent majority of centre-leaning or even "progressive" Republicans.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

The people you're slinging mud at simply do not have enough influence by themselves to be considered as being representative of the much broader "right-wing" political spectrum. It takes all sorts to make a left winger or a right winger. You wouldn't much like it if I implied that "all Democrats are police-killing domestic terrorists and Antifa rioters". Because it's not true. Most democrats, like most republicans, are normal people trying to live in peace and relative prosperity, and it's only the most violent outer-lying fringes who create the opposite impression.

[MittenstheGlove]

You know what, man. It’s not even worth conversing about.

Progress is for the greater good of humankind. If your politics is “me before thee,” then you’re fundamentally regressive.

If your progress is interference with the decision of an individual without the well-being of the greater whole or to the disenfranchisement of a groups rights that is regression.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

@MittenstheGlove again you're twisting my words. In fact I've said nothing of my own personal politics. Fundamentally, I'm not even taking a political stance, I'm merely pointing out the fact that individual people have their own varying ideas of what "progress" means. Especially when it comes to the mechanisms of HOW progress is enacted. If you won't engage with what I've actually said and just wanna put words in my mouth, then you may be right that this isn't worth continuing. I've said my piece either way. I just think if people really want "progress" then they shouldn't demonise anyone who has different ideas of how progress is to be manifested. Stalin and Hitler thought they were bringing about socially progressive revolutions, but the pathways through which they enacted their visions couldn't be further from their own ideals. That's the danger of putting the moral superiority of one group over another; when everything you do is ostensibly in the name of "progress", you can justify anything.

[MittenstheGlove]

You’re getting a bit touchy. I don’t use your in regards to you personally but as a generality. I apologize for making it seem as if I directing my opinion at you.

Bruh. Progress can in fact be cut in dry. Insuring all your citizen have health care is progress. Cutting down on emissions is progress. Gay rights, progress. Black rights, progress.

You don’t have to do anything that will disable another group especially in a way that will cause long term detrimental effects.

We have accepted people opinions and then attempted to educate them on those opinions in several aspects. They in turn demonize us.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

@MittenstheGlove most of that I'd agree with, actually that was never the source of my contention. Maybe I got more heated in my comments than necessary because of the way the whole conversation was framed, of "right wingers = evil". I'm not a fan of tribalistic thinking is all. I do think *certain* right wingers should be held to accounts for views they've expressed on the record, same goes for certain left wingers. The central issue was that of OP's claim that a certain subset of a political group must represent the entire group. I'll argue against that viewpoint more aggressively than other, more moderate points of view, because I think that attitude is part and parcel of the rise of Far Left and Far Right totalitarian ideologies on the rise in the Western world (and especially the U. S., which is usually the canary in the coal mine, since Western Europe tends to trail close behind the U. S. in its cultural zeitgeists). Many of the points you raise are perfectly unobjectionable to me. Where we differ is in the conclusions we each infer from those common points of interest. Believe me, there's nothing more I'd like than for people of all stripes and creeds to get along and crack the fuck on with their lives in peace. But I don't think we'll get to that point by using language that presupposes a fundamental rift in society, drawn along largely arbitrary political fault lines.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Maybe "arbitrary" is the wrong word, but I think the centre left and centre right voters have much more in common with each other than with the extremists on their respective sides of the spectrum.

[MittenstheGlove]

I do agree with you. I think though the Overton window is so rightwards that our definition of center left are again, liberals that are okay with gay marriage, but when it comes to enacting a more people centric government, go rage mode.

I’ve sat and talked with conservatives. My boss for example, middle class af and Republican. He thinks it’s okay that Amazon didn’t pay any taxes. He paid more taxes than Amazon. Why didn’t he instead just say I think Amazon should pay more and small businesses should pay less?

Talked to a friend who smokes weed as a Republican and doesn’t have healthcare who has chronic back pain but doesn’t go to the doctor. Because well he doesn’t like doctors. And as such he doesn’t want to pay for anyone else’s medical attention.

But our tax money is used to fuel a war machine. These are common right wingers. If you are a Republican and criticize Trump you will immediately be called a RINO.

[MittenstheGlove]

Liberals will probably call you a communist if you say something about how capitalism doesn’t work very well for most people.

[MittenstheGlove]

Like imagine having an ideology that lets people die or kill people? When you can try to help people instead?

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

@MittenstheGlove I see what you're saying, there's really several different topics in that comment which we could dig into separately, but I think we at least understand each other on the overall issue of extremism being bad on both sides of the spectrum. It's irksome that the extremists make up a fairly small minority overall, yet they dictate so much of the public discourse and debate. It's at the point where two fairly reasonable people such as yourself and I can be instantly assessed as having "extreme views", just because the national conversation is so tilted by those extreme voices, that any voice of reason can be dismissed as being an "apologist" or "dog-whistle" for extremist views. I'm glad we had this discussion, even though our perspectives are somewhat different, you have my respect for taking the time to clarify your views

[Anonymous]

wait. which political party is supporting people burning, looting, and murdering based on political beliefs or just for shits and giggles again? Which party fucking paid to bail out murderers and criminals again? Which political party just got their ass caught paying people for ballot harvesting so they could rig elections? Talk about some third world shit. rofl

[darkcloud1945]

You just described THE DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST PARTY S plan for the U. S. A.. Not Republican.

[888theGreat]

Yep it is

[Anonymous]

Have you seen Cali and San Francisco? There's literally a poop app for people to avoid human poop on the streets. Why haven't the democrats done anything in their cities. 😂😂.

[Waffles731]

Have you seen Boston or Massachusetts, a strong economy, safe, andd deep blue

[888theGreat]

for real, and shop lifters are not prosecuted. How does any business pay the taxes and allow theft and stay in business?

[Jack9949]

As if “free” everything for everybody (including illegal immigrants) isn’t going to bankrupt our country.

[Waffles731]

Oh right because god knows that the rest of the developed world is struggling when they provide shit like universal healthcare and subsidized college

[Jack9949]

@Waffles731 exactly

[Waffles731]

Except they aren't, they provide it just fine

[Jack9949]

@Waffles731 at the expense of the rich and their economies

[Waffles731]

European Economies are very strong I don't know where you get that from and why should the ultra rich be a consideration

[Jack9949]

@Waffles731 The US has a larger economy than the entire EU

[Waffles731]

Just barely and all that means is that since they can provide this shit it should be easier for us

[Waffles731]

And they also have a higher standard of living

[Jack9949]

@Waffles731 the “higher standard of living” is only in certain countries there

[Waffles731]

I. e most of western Europe

[Jack9949]

@Waffles731 not spain and not france.

[Waffles731]

Yes France does, it's generally accepted that France has the best healthcare system in the world, Spain however is a complicated issue due to it being under Fascist rule until 1975 and the fact that large portions of it are being abandoned.

Seriously, you got 400 grand you get get yourself a Spanish village

www.bbc.com/.../20191121-can-tiny-abandoned-towns-put-galicia-on-the-map

[Waffles731]

Oh and an active Basque Terrorist group or freedom fighters depending on your group that only officially disarmed a couple years ago

[gandolph3]

They say they are against socialism of any sort, yet strongly promote and feed corporate socialism.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

[allaboutyou2]

Not even a close to honest assessment. Only hate filled radicals push that opinion.

[QuietRunner]

I guess we could be more like China with their environment wasteland filled with bigotry, government extremism, some type of healthcare, and massive income inequality.

[goaded]

That's definitely something American voters would want.

[KrakenAttackin]

Why do Democrats want to elect a Hitler, begin sending people to concentration camps, return to slavery, and destroy basic family structure?

See how that works sparky?

[MittenstheGlove]

Except we aren’t. Lol.

[KrakenAttackin]

@MittenstheGlove Yeah, actually you are. Liberals are the modern "Brown Shirt", burning homes and stores, breaking glass, throwing Molotov Cocktails, throwing cement filled cups, thrown feces, and otherwise using violence.

[MittenstheGlove]

What minority group are we trying commit genocide on?

[KrakenAttackin]

@MittenstheGlove You are trying to commit genocide of thought, which is the most heinous of all. You want to destroy anyone who does not agree with your narrative.

[MittenstheGlove]

Pfft. What thoughts are we eliminating? Freedom of choice?

[Miristheiss]

You are a wacko.
Seriously. You are an utter moron.

[mrgspoter]

Cause it's what you guys enjoy doing where ever you go even places you haven't invaded or taken over just people there who can't stop you, why you think nobody likes USA

[Anonymous]

Because money is god to them. They're so greedy to the point that they would be willing to let the US become like Africa to fill their own pockets.

[KrakenAttackin]

Anon. You are talking about the Clinton's, right?

[not329446]

Republicans value being able to enslave people simply for greed.

[KrakenAttackin]

@not329446 Well... you have to start somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Don't believe everything the Democrats tell you about the Republicans.

[JenSCDC]

You mean to say that Republicans have an actual healthcare plan? Or environmental policy? Or are against bigotry and religious extremism?

[JTGoat]

Most don't want a healthcare plan, they want privatized care that's cost controlled by competition. They don't want an environmental wasteland, they want to do business without more restrictions, red tape, and high costs. Most of us aren't Religious extremists, but it faith is important to us, and those who try to take it from us aren't going to see our friendly side. As far as bigotry... Against whom?

[888theGreat]

1) Most Republicans are not religious
2) Environment is fine, better than ever. There is no Global Warming (invented crisis).
3) Gov't can't legislate morality.
4) Trump's Health policy, is lowering prems and drugs which he did. As well as a Vacc for China virus which would have taken Obama 4 years to do while he golfed.

[Anonymous]

Really? Its the stupid dems who want to shut down the country again and make us all dependent on handouts.

[Shamalien]

You live in a fantasy world. Both parties are ultimately terrible, but if you want to know which one spends more money, it's definitely the democrats.

[JenSCDC]

Talk about a nonsequitur.

[joeldalton]

Why are liberals such hand-wringing crybabies?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And yet you're the ones getting triggered about mask mandates -_-

Seriously you complain about how the left wants to make the rights of others end where their feeling begins while you think the right to carry out essential tasks ends when you have to endure some discomfort and wear a mask.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator Because I refuse to follow along with unscientific arbitrary rules to participate in security theater? Yeah, wearing masks is all feeling and virtue signaling.

I'm going to ask you to show me your science knowledge - and let's see if you can be honest. Explain to me how wearing a mask from a hostess stand to my table where I can take it off significantly reduces the chance of covid spread. Explain to me how covid is stopped by restaurant workers wearing gloves. Where they do such charming behaviors as carry the payment folio with their gloved hands, then carry my plate? Where they run their gloved hands through their hair then touch my glass to refill the water.

I'll wait.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Viral load:
medium.com/.../why-masks-protect-its-wearer-too-the-viral-load-concept-2fd1ff88ed6a

And it isn't stopped by restaurant workers wearing gloves, it's stopped by the fact that if you use sanitizer on the gloves, there are less cracks in crevices for the virus to hide versus on your hands.

And the only virtue signaling here is anti-maskers claiming that those who support mask mandates are in favor of government tyranny.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator so you can't answer the question. Thanks for playing.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

The source I provided did answer the question.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator No it didn't. I want to know the following. If your "viral load" is X in any given inside setting. What is the X-y of the viral load for wearing a stupid piece of paper on your face in the 45 seconds it takes you to walk from the hostess stand to your table.

Because if you actually knew that data, I'm sure it'd be embarrassing for you. Then you'd have to admit it's a stupid, arbitrary rule. And that would violate your love of all things being a covidiot.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

That depends on a lot of other factors because it's one of many variables that determines how fast a virus can spread in a community so it has to be weighed against everything else when implementing policy. And no, that's not a cop out, it's just that limiting the spread of a pandemic is more complicated than you seem to realize (or more accurately could realize).

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator complete cop out. Here comes the gaslighting. I bet you’re grateful the TSA makes you throw away your bottle of water before getting on a plane, too.

All for a virus with over a 99.9% survivability rate.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

It's a 99% survivability rate but the reason it's that low (versus 3.4%) is because of the lockdown.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator no moron, it’s because the virus isn’t that deadly. If you’d at least have the balls to admit that walking from a hostess stand to a table with a mask is stupid - I’d almost respect you. But you cling to the bullshit and you are nothing but a fool.

Ok, now temperature checks. Show me the science behind those. Knowing that 1) People with covid don’t always have fevers 2) people with fevers and covid don’t have them all day long and 3) nsaids will reduce a fever.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Now you're copping out by breaking it down to absolutes when it is a question of the probability of being sick.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator That’s two you can’t answer. You’re doing very well.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

No you're just pre-emptively coping out. That's like saying you can't justify a speed limit because there's no cutoff point where you can prevent car accidents. DUH.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator lol. No, I can show scientific evidence that a X reduction in speed can tie to a reduction in deaths on a particular road.

You can’t show that masks from a hostess stand to a table or temperature checks, Or gloves prevent the spread of covid. But you have the government’s dick down your throat too much to even say what everyone knows is the truth.

This is security theater and you are being played as a fool.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Key phrase: ON A PARTICULAR ROAD but there's no universal speed limit that would work everywhere just like we can say that if people wear a mask in X situation, it will reduce the viral transmission by Y amount:

medium.com/.../why-masks-protect-its-wearer-too-the-viral-load-concept-2fd1ff88ed6a

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator then you should be able to tell me what percentage of infections are prevented on a walk from a hostess stand.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

That's like saying you should be able to say exactly how many accidents are prevented on this road by having a speed limit of 40 vs 45 mph. We can't know for sure, we can only infer it from other observations/experiments.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator lol. And here I am thinking science is all about running experiments to find out the truth. Now you're telling me we just infer. oh fuck you're a dope.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

You infer based on previous experiments. Duh.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator So infer for me, smart guy. I mean I know why you're hedging. You know deep down what a sham this all is.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Yeah, because the virus has so far killed 200,000 instead of the projected 3+ million.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator Age Group Probability of Survival

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Untreated (which most cases would be if there wasn't a lockdown because the hospital system wouldn't be overwhelmed) it would be 3.4%. It has only gone down because we've gotten better at treating it.

[joeldalton]

@Ad_Quid_Orator More BS

Age Group Probability of Survival

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Is that based on the BS co morbidity stats?

[pizzalovershouse]

Ciz war weapons make them big bucks

[TwoToTooTutu2]

Both parties sold out to foreign powers long ago.

[IlluminatiExposed]

Because the income inequality is in their favour.

[Anonymous]

Found your typo *do* --> don't.

[Massageman]

Ditto 888theGreat .

[Kelly6]

$$$$$$

[JimboGB]

You're 45 😵

[MrTaboo]

Fake news