It's seen as sexist by some because of the radical feminist narrative, which is a very black and white narrative.
1) In our society men are privileged over women and we still have a long way to go before we're equal, therefore women need support and men do not.
2) The reason that men are privileged is because men made it that way with patriarchy. Men created a system which benefits all men over all women.
3) Therefore men supporting men are probably only doing so because they want to create/maintain their privilege. There is no other reason for them to do so because they have the power already, they're privileged, they're not disadvantaged in any way.
That's the mentality.
Now, there are Men's Rights Activist groups. They were more popular a decade ago than they are now because feminism has thwarted their efforts. The reason the Men's Rights Movement became a thing was because they felt that men needed support and that feminism wasn't providing that support for the above reason, and it wasn't. The feminists who objected to the MRM would argue that feminism is for everybody including men.
This is where I think that the feminists really began to speak about men's issues, and that's what ruined the MRM. There's a big difference in the way feminists try (often pretend I think) to help men and the way the MRM attempted to help men. What the feminists really objected to was the framing of the MRM's arguments coming into conflict with the feminist narrative I just described. It's all about control of the narrative.
The MRM was men speaking about the issues that affect men. Things that you, I, and most normal men here would agree are problems we face. It was run by men although it included women too, some of them former feminists like Warren Farrell, Christina Hoff Sommers, Erin Pizzey.
When feminists claim to want to help men it has to run through the feminist filter of men as a group are to blame and women are never to blame for anything at all. Men are hurt mainly by patriarchy and the world would be better if men were more like women. That's all it is. It's not about the problems men face that we actually care about. Ask any feminist what the biggest issue for men is today and she'll tell you something about men need to cry more and be free to wear dresses. If you create a men supporting men group that involves that kind of stuff you'll be cheered on. Of course it doesn't help normal men at all but whatever.
I forgot to add that along with this mentality, you have this:
Men above women = boo sexist inequality. Men are keeping women down and we need to fix this.
Men and women equal = yay equality for women!
Women above men = yay more equality for women! What do you mean help men? Men are privileged, we have a long way to go before we can start talking about issues men care about. And maybe women are just better than men.
If you have to say it, you're not doing it loud enough... or you're lying.
Women don't support women. Not in general, at least. Women tear other women down, gossip, sabotage each other... and then turn right around and talk about girl power and mutual support (when it benefits them). So it's not sexist, it's just bullshit.
The “girls supporting girls” thing, as you seem to be putting it, is usually about rape and sexual assault. And it isn’t about saying that men should automatically be convicted. It’s about saying that women should be taken seriously. It’s a problem that less than one percent of rapes actually lead to a conviction, even though at least 89 percent of victims have lasting emotional and physical consequences. The vast majority of cases don’t even make it to court, and even if they do, some courts will still rule against a woman because of something as stupid as what she was wearing. The Brock Turner case, and the recent ruling by the Minnesota Supreme Court are perfect examples. The point is to say that we at least deserve to be heard. To go to court, and make the case in front of a truly unbiased judge and jury.
In a broader sense, “girls supporting girls” still isn’t about believing women over men. It isn’t about saying that we’re perfect and can do no wrong. It’s about saying we all face misogyny, let’s hear each other out. Let’s recognize the systemic issues that we face, and let’s acknowledge that it hurts. Let’s find ways to make it easier. You deserve to be heard, and taken seriously. Your problems are real. It’s about empathy.
I’m not saying that men face no problems. I won’t have a problem if you were to say “men supporting men” and then go talk about how it’s okay for guys to express their feelings, and how you don’t need to be some sort of “chick magnet” in order to be a real man.
But the fact that you have a problem with “girls supporting girls” is suspicious. If you actually want to support men, then great. Go do that. You have my full support. But if you just want to say that women suck, and that rape isn’t real, you’re part of the problem.
There isn’t evidence because most of the time there isn’t even an investigation. That is a problem. If a person reports a rape, it should be investigated. Point blank.
And you say that that’s your problem with it. But the details that you give show that you only think that because you’re just not listening.
We don’t say that there should be conviction with no trial. We say that we deserve to be heard.
And by the way, even if there isn’t evidence, it doesn’t mean that nothing happened. The empathetic response isn’t to say “well you have no proof, so too bad.” The empathetic response is to say “that shouldn’t have happened to you, I’m sorry it did, is there anything I can do?” And the to help that person avoid being re-traumatized by having to continue interacting with the person who hurt them.
And if you know the victim. And you know that they are telling the truth. OR if it’s one of the cases where there is more than enough evidence but people just don’t care enough to convict, a decent person certainly doesn’t continue to defend the aggressor, because “he’s a good guy” or whatever. Because if he’s a rapist, or a sexual predator, he is not a good guy.
Historically, that’s what “men supporting men” has meant. It’s meant fraternities hiding evidence, and protecting their frat bros from allegations which they know are completely true. It’s universities protecting their athletes by punishing the students who raise concerns about them. It’s male judges saying that it’s okay if a man raped a fifteen year old, because “she looks older.” It’s male judges saying “he may have done it, but we don’t want to ruin this young man’s life,” let alone that that letting that man go free is ruining a young woman’s life by making her live in fear.
Like I said, if that’s not what you’re doing, then great. Good for you. But everything you’re saying convinces me more and more that that’s exactly what you mean.
You’ve never been threw sexism in your life and it shows. Women supporting women is because women face a unique struggle that you as a man, just will never understand. As for men supporting men, I’ve never heard anyone speak poorly upon that. Nor is it as big of a problem. The problem is that men are being encourage to Bottle up their feelings, and are statistically less likely to deal with their poor mental health, to go to therapy to deal with their trauma, etc. Thats what needs to be stopped.
So if men supporting men accomplished that, than yes it 100% would be a supported movement.
Any person can support whoever they want. I don’t see this as an issue anywhere.
Hmm... I see where you’re coming from. In the context I see (and actively use) terms like “girls supporting girls” is in areas where I feel it’s less about girls stepping up for girls just because they’re women, and more about girls recognising female problems and helping each other out on the basis from that. Or I’m cases with supporting female businesses, which is to help boost a disenfranchised group.
I could definitely see men supporting men becoming a more effective “slogan” when used in terms of SA survivors or similar situations. Word limit here.
"outlining an essential part of feminism as being the mutual support of women by other women. It calls for women to lift each other up instead of tearing each other down, because they can’t begin to overcome the restrictions placed on them by society if women themselves are enforcing them."
Did you make up what you thought girls supporting girls was about or?
why don't you just create the same thing for men? why would you just hate on women for men not having something like that? "girls support girls " was created by women, not men. If you want one too, you create one. Don't look for excuse to be anti woman
@aliali8
To be honest, I don't think it's fair of you to claim he's anti-women.
To answer your question: since he considers these „girls supporting girls“ groups to be sexist, a group dedicated only to the problems of men would then logically also be sexist.
He doesn't claim that women in general are sexist, he wonders, why being sexist for these women is socially accepted. You can disagree with him but to make him look like a misogynist based on this question is just the wrong thing to do.
He wonders why it is ok when „women help women“ and claims that there would be an outcry if there was a group called: ”men help men".
You can doubt that, but he is not anti-women, he is pro-equality. At least, based on this question, nothing else can be imputed to him.
Why not simply create a group: „women and men helping women and men“?
@Tonytoutouni123 well if men didn't care enough to create "girls supporting girls", then why would you expect women to create "men supporting men"? why are you so entitled?
i'm gonna take a good guess here and say you don't actually know what "girls supporting girls" means.
girls supporting girls means that women come together and lift each other up, offer a shoulder to cry on, and just be there for each other in this man's world.
whether it's helping out another woman with her business or supporting a fellow woman in an incident, that's just what it means when you hear "girls supporting girls". it's not sexist luv 🤦🏽♀️
"men supporting men" isn't necessarily a thing because some men don't go through the same problem as women do. and even if they do, toxic masculinity (or just general apathy) wouldn't let some men "support" other men because some think that "oh it's not my problem" or think "well i don't see any other guys supporting it so i won't either". i've seen this happen a lot, and it's upsetting as well 😐
Never felt that I can't emotionally support a guy... Do it all the time in fact. Men have difficulty sharing what they consider a weakness, but once they share a single drop, it turns into a waterfall...
Men need a hug, just like women do. I genuinely don't know what's stopping you...
Girls supporting girls is more about the history of pinning girls against girls and changing that. It's about uplifting each other rather then unhealthy comparisons and competition. I'm all for girls supporting girls and guys supporting guys, but with that we all must hold each other accountable when we do wrong. However, girls supporting girls is not about letting them get away with "murder" or hating guys. It's simply to take out the petty bullshit.
Many of them are convinced they’re oppressed as a class. So they will take an identitarian response. They also like that reinforcement of gender identity, so they’re definitely not going to let it go. In validating others they validate themselves. It feels good.
I noticed this too, girls supporting girls is called female empowerment while men supporting men is called a "frst house mentality". We get the short end of the stick.
The boys always got my back tbh, i might call it "men supporting men" but not like some social media chad typing "more power to you queen" in every comment or something but like for real. I call that real support as social media is so fucking fake.
If they dont accept it, then idc, i am just minding my own buisness and so should they.
Like groups tend to support each other? It’s nature.
It is a thing already and I'm pretty sure no one has an issue with it
Men supporting men is called friendship, brotherhood, and is very important. Women love a bromance. You’re thinking of toxic masculinity and if that’s your environment then you should change that.
because white men are disposable and hated by all. Women only scholarships, affirmative action, forced diversity, the list goes. Hopefully the pendulum swings back in my lifetime
Because feminism isn't about helping women, its about hurting men
Men do support each other we just do it differently
What makes you think it wouldn't be accepted? I think men supporting men is much more common than women supporting women.
Guys just dont open up to one another from my understanding
I don’t believe in that tbf. I will support whoever is right.
I see the straight opposite here. Girls are turning misogynistic just to get men's approval and supporting only men. So why do men need other men to support them when they got sluts supporting them?
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