If Israel and Palestine go to war, should America get involved?

[Ronald_25]

Yes, why?

No, why?

Updates

+1 y

Some Rick and Morty humour on Israel and Palestine as this question got dark, savage and unsettling fast https://youtu.be/U661zM733BM

[DaisyM23]

I’m saying no because i think they SHOULDN’T be but I know they’re already involved by their funding of israel. Plus, I’m sure other countries will soon follow, especially britain and other big countries in the UN. But then again, the UN do little to help countries. If these countries get involved, they’ll automatically try and fight against the Palestinians. But if they don’t get involved, they’ll still find a way to fund israel and make sure israel stay on top. Either way, palestine gets screwed because israel is backed by the big ones sadly

[Ronald_25]

If you were madam president of the world, how would you resolve it?

[DaisyM23]

Haha omg, this is a fight that’s happened for too long and taken too many lives. I would make everyone live together, jews and muslims, they can both worship in their synagogues and mosques and learn that they’re not so different. Religious wise, they’re quite similar, as well as christianity. Some kind of council where there are representatives from both sides who will talk things through and come up with compromises, equal rights for all the people regardless of religion. No more war and fighting. Or just split the bloody land since they’re arguing about it, or bring in a third party who is completely objective and can help both sides reach agreement
None of us this would work, it’s too complicated and people are far too cruel and selfish for compromise

[Ronald_25]

Well answered, more detailed than I expected, looks like you'd use your power responsibly. Sanna Marin become the youngest ever priminister at 33, would you be up for being madam president of the world? 😄 I don't know, I'm an engineer, I tend to go for the least complicated solution. I'd send Palestine Mars with Elon Musk's plan to colonize it. The interplanetary equivalent of making two fighting kids go to opposite ends of the playground.

[007kingifrit]

i don't think it was a very good answer at all. it was just pure optimism with no understanding of humanity. 2 sides want exactly opposite things. there cannot be peace. one must destroy the other

[Ronald_25]

Aye, it was optimistic, but @DaisyM23 could argue that your answer is purely pessimistic 🤷🏽‍♂️

[007kingifrit]

pessimists are always right

[DaisyM23]

@007kingifrit i know it’s optimistic, i even said at the end of my answer, but it’s nice to be optimistic so perhaps it can win one day. Saying that though, I’m more of a pessimist on the realistic outcome, israel will get the backing of all the important people and palestine will be crushed except there will still be people always fighting, whether it be the next generation or not, which means it’ll be an endless cycle

[Floppy2112]

Yeah, that's what people have been trying to do for decades. Get each other to see that they are more similar than different, but hate isn't a function of reason. And the U. S. funds both the Palestinians and Israel. But it's hard to get people to sit together when one's main charter states that in order for one to exist, the other must cease existing, no exceptions. When the opening paragraph requires the streets to run red with the blood of dead Jews, negotiations are tough.
I think now, maybe they ought to just fight it out with the spoils going toward the victors. The permanent limbo of the situation certainly has not had any good results. Maybe war is the answer? I don't know, I know I don't want to be involved.

[Tstrbrainer]

I like this girl's answer.

[SpiderManFan2002]

It wouldn’t really be much of a war, when one side has technologically advanced weapons and the other doesn’t.


It’s like nobody calls or at least I’ve heard nobody call what’s happening between Saudi and Yemen a war, because it’s not- Saudi is technologically advanced and Yemen is quite the opposite.

[invalid1]

It's called civil war.

[Ronald_25]

I agree with you, one side is at a clear advantage, but when your people are being killed you don't just sit around, you make peace or go to war. And this isn't Rick and Morty where Rick Sanchez is going to take each leader to smoke enhancing Lazer hooka and sign a "pretty obvious if you think about it" accord. https://youtu.be/U661zM733BM

[SpiderManFan2002]

Nobody said anything about anyone sitting around. And if that is your logic then far more innocent Palestinians have died in this conflict than innocent Israelis- referring to civilians on both sides, what have the Palestinian people done? And do not equate the Palestinian people, the innocent children, the innocent people- to Hamas. They are not the same. Learn to differentiate a terrorist organization from innocent people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jj8vne0ca0

[Ronald_25]

True, but I'd much rather send the Palestinians to Mars with Elon Musk 🤷🏽‍♂️ I'd opt for the simplist solution.

[SpiderManFan2002]

You’re trolling.

But real question: If Jewish people have the right to the land, then why can’t Palestinians have that right also?

[invalid1]

They all have the right to the land. There seems to be a lot of money with Israel and with Arabs. They can populate the whole country peacefully if they want to live with each other like so many countries that have many religions and ethnicities within. But the only problem is that they don't. They have been at war since before Christ!! You can even see in the old testament versus about this conflict. Israelis and Palestinians are so happy over how they can get the attention of the world so easily as their land is crucial to the world's dominant religions.

[Ronald_25]

I'm actually not, I genuinely reckon it will take less time to colonize Mars than actually get Palestine and Israel to a permanent cease fire and resolve their differences with comprises. There has been conflict since the 1920s, and I can't see it being resolved any time soon.

To answer your question, yes the Palestinians do have a right, but who will help them get it? What upsets me, is that if this is partially driven by religion, then the UAE have not helped them as they should.

[007kingifrit]

its called a war. and saudi arabia has been consistently defeated in yemen

[nightdrot]

Voted No. However, the question is peculiar in that there is very little likelihood that the United States would need to intervene and the paradox is that doing so would as likely as not weaken Israel's - and the Arab world's - overall position to the advantage of Iran.

First, from a narrowly military perspective, Israel does not need aid. Hamas and its affiliated groups have extremely limited assets and are dependent on Iran. The latter is geographically distant and militarily, were it to attempt to intervene directly would find a whole array of states - including nuclear armed Israel - pitted against it.

In broader geostrategic terms, Palestinian national identity is relatively thin gruel and why, in fact, it has become less of a force in the Middle East. Indeed, it is why the Palestinian cause is now led mostly by pan-Islamist forces - see also HAMAS. Pan-Islam being a forced that defines identity not in national terms but in religious ones.

The further irony being that after the Palestinian nationalists supported Iraq against Kuwait in the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War, the Arab states began to abandon the Palestinian cause. Such today that the principle benefactor of the Sunni Muslim Palestinian Arabs is Shiite Muslim Persian Iran.

Thus today, the current fireworks in the Middle East is more deceptive than not. The Palestinian cause - as a nationalist cause - is largely dead. Being more akin to a civil rights movement than a nationalist cause. The Arab states have largely abandon it in favor of peace with Israel as a counterweight to Iran.

The Palestinians, never having had a deep sense of national identity, are recurring to a more general sense of Arab and Muslim identity. In this the Iranians are backing them largely as a way to pressure their Arab rivals - particularly Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, the latter two of which already have peace treaties with Israel.

Suffice to add that if Saudi Arabia - keeper of the Muslim Holy Cities of Mecca and Medina - were to make peace with Israel, it would likely split the Muslim world wide open. Particularly along the Sunni/Shiite divide but even within Sunni Islam.

As it is Saudi-Israeli ties are actually quite good as both strongly oppose Iran. The Saudis however being understandably reluctant to formalize those relations in a peace treaty, though negotiations are ongoing. It is these negotiations against which the current exchange of fire between Israel and HAMAS in the Palestinian Gaza Strip is aimed at disrupting.

In a nutshell, this is less about Palestinian national identity - which is fading - than it is about Iran's conflict with the Sunni Arab world. The predominantly Sunni Muslim Arab Palestinians finding themselves in an alliance of convenience with Iran, and in effect being Iran's catspaw. It being added that unless things get wildly out of hand, the Arabs are apt to sit on their hands and let Israel and Iran settle the matter over the Palestinian's heads.

In this connection then, a US intervention would be forcing the Arab states off the fence to the advantage of Iran. Drawing the US in and making it harder for the Arab states to retain ties to the US - and de facto to Israel.

So the best US game is to stand aside. To provide the aid that the US already supplies to Israel and with which the Arab states have made their peace. Israel has the means to defeat HAMAS in the Gaza Strip and doing so on its own will allow the Arab states to look the other way, ridding themselves of an Islamist and Iranian threat that is pointed at them as much as it is Israel. This being the larger context in which the game is being played out.

[007kingifrit]

top notch analysis and spot on. nobody will intervene in this conflict except for what iran has already done in funding it

[nightdrot]

@007kingifrit Thanks for the thumbs up and your kind comment. Basically, yes, no one will lift a finger for the Palestinians.

Though Israel needs to take some care in the modulation of its use of force - avoiding civilian casualties as much as possible. This to reduce the internal pressure on the Arab states.

No one will go to the Palestinian's aid, but the issue can drum up sporadic popular support in the Middle East. Not enough to lead to war, but sometimes domestic civil unrest. So the situation still must be handled with some deftness.

[legalboxers]

You know the US will come running. Think of it this way. You got a group of people playing ball, and Israel comes and says "I wanna play".. so they are like "Okay". a window is broken of a house.. the home owner yells "Who did it".. Israel hides behind the US (as a 500lbs woman wearing a moo moo and Israel hides and gives the finger)..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations, which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate. On 29 November 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted the Plan as Resolution 181 (II).[2]

The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem. The Partition Plan, a four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. Part I of the Plan stipulated that the Mandate would be terminated as soon as possible and the United Kingdom would withdraw no later than 1 August 1948. The new states would come into existence two months after the withdrawal, but no later than 1 October 1948. The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims of two competing movements, Palestinian nationalism and Jewish nationalism, or Zionism.[3][4] The Plan also called for Economic Union between the proposed states, and for the protection of religious and minority rights.

The Plan, devised in cooperation with Jewish organizations, was accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, despite dissatisfaction over territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State.[5][6] Arab leaders and governments rejected it[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division,[8] arguing that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.[6][9]

Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly, a civil war broke out[10] and the plan was not implemented.[11]

[ODC2112]

Yes but not directly.
Many wars that Israel fought alone, with the exception of American support in the Six Day War and Lebanese allies in the First Lebanon War and Anglo-French air support in the suez crisis. It is currently the strongest and best armed army in the Middle East.

The US has no interest in direct support in the area, however it does have strong interests in external support for Israel. This depends on the moves of Iran and Turkey with their neo-Ottoman imperialist policies. The US has very strong interests in the area of support for Egypt and Saudi Arabia, UAE and Jordan which in turn have the terror of Iran and Turkey from this point of view the US is already strongly involved.

On the other hand there is Russian support. Israel is the most Russian state in the world outside of Russia. 17.25% of the Israeli population is also Russian. So there is a problem of competition between Americans and Russians in support of Israel, in which the latter would hardly want to lack their support, but which would clash with Washington's strategic interests. There are numerous military scientific collaboration agreements between Israel and the Russians, things that make the Pentagon's guts twist. This puts the US in competition with the Russians and losing Israel means losing one's bridgehead in the Middle East.

[Lionman95]

America is already involved in it because the US army supports Israel with weapons or were do you think Israel gets its weapons from? First of all at the moment it´s a still a chance of diplomacy. If that fails there will be a war because the Palastinese are supported by Iran and will sooner or later be supported also by Turkey which will cause European countries to support Israel. This conflict could put the NATO in question because Turkey is all well a NATO as some countries that will or maybe have to support Israel. At worst it could be the end of the NATO and a second war zone like Syria.
It´s not a conflict that should be marginalized but things don´t have to get that bad.

[TurkishGirl_]

I mostly agree with you, but I'm sure Turkey will not get involved in this possible war.

[Lionman95]

@TurkishGirl_ Thinking about it again I think you´re what I wrote before is more to be seen as a worst case scenario.

[invalid1]

I wouldn't expect this escalation. I don't know why everybody seeing it like the ultimate holy war is around the corner. All what there is new are some few alliances that make the US not inclined anymore to defend Israel. At least to the public opinion.
Besides, the whole place is so densely populated, you can't expect another Stalingrad unless you know the future.

[ChrisMaster69]

Your question is slightly politically naive.

Israel and Palestine would be a very short war, there is nothing there for Israel.

the real war is these days incredibly complex.

on Palestine side would be Iran, possibly Syria (Golan Heights) now it gets more complex.

Saudi is at war with Iran by proxy in Yemen,

the gulf states are threatened by everyone, but most likely would join Israel.

It then gets more so on which way Egypt and Jordan will go.

the wild card is Turkey.

Saudi will definitely let Israeli Air Airforce ingress and egress for strikes on Iran.

[jgokgotit]

Yes. Israel is God's chosen land. Anyone who stands against Israel risks God's wrath when the final judgement occurs. America is a Christian-founded nation so it is our moral duty to protect the Holy Land. Even if you're not a Christian, ALL THREE of the world's biggest religions have a Holy claim to the area. Allowing the Palestinians to keep going rogue could jeopardize these holy spots, which would piss most of the world off. Between Christianity, Islam and Judaism, letting anything happen to Israel (and by extension Jerusalem) would bring the wrath of most of the world's countries down and cause a third world war.

[jgokgotit]

Someone said that America's hands were cuffed and that we better watch out for China and Russia. What are China and Russia gonna do, cry us to death? Their militaries are severely behind the U. S. military's capabilities at this time. China and Russia are not equal to America and never will be.

[TruthBringer]

Israel got the US by it's balls. You guys are already getting robbed from your tax money. Over 3 billion dollars annually is going to Israel. Just imagine what you can do with that money domestically. If the US is not going to engage in direct warfare, it's most definitely going to fill Israel's pockets to enter it.

I already think the US citizens are robbed of their dignity. So are the Arabs with their bribed pussy leaders.

[TruthBringer]

@007kingifrit "anti semites like you". It's better for your retarded ass to know what an anti-semite is and who isn't. Get the fuck out. The fact you say America funds Hamas only makes your country look even worse. You should be explaining that to the rest of the world why you're arming both sides so this conflict can continue.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Because USA is majority Christian !!! The need to start the last and the moust succesful cruciade!!!
THE HOLY LAND WILL NEVER EVER FALL AGAIN!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT7VNCM12G4

[tartaarsaus]

Diplomatically, sure. There’s no reason why they should go to war with their own armies. Nothing to gain at all. The Israelis need no help and fighting against Israel would just be idiotic from a geopolitical point of view, from a trade relations pov and domestic politics pov.

[The_Maphio]

America is always involved in a fight where there's oil. That'd be why America would participate, but I don't see it going well as it usually did, if, once again, they end up stepping on Russia and China's feet.
As things stand right now, America's wrists are cuffed, and they better pay close attention to what they do since the genius in chief sitting in your oval office managed to restart the cold war within his first week in power.

[BeMuse]

Israel would easily plow them into the ground. What are you asking us to block an easy win when Hamas is aimlessly firing rockets into civilian neighborhoods at Jews, Muslims, and Christians? Don’t think so… I’ll stand down and let Israel bulldoze te Palestinian neighborhoods and lock up the terrorists.

[BeMuse]

*the

[BeMuse]

I guess we could throw Ilhan Omar out of a C-130 into Palestinian territory. She seems to be working with them. I don’t think we need to waste a parachute though...

[DJB72]

They are already at war. Its just referred to as a "conflict", but they kill each other. The Israelis have a standing army, the Palestinians have guerilla tactics. Its a war, and the US, UK and Europe are already involved.

[TheBigGuy9]

We didn’t seem to have this problem under Trump. He was brokering Peace. I don’t think many people really know what’s really going on. This is part of it.
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/us-to-restore-about-150-million-in-aid-to-palestinians-664413

[suisuiola]

they're already involved by funding billions of dollars towards the IDF.

[007kingifrit]

and lets not forget... joe biden just began funding hamas also

[suisuiola]

@007kingifrit doesn't change the fact that they're still involved.

[TurkishGirl_]

America is already involved.

[SlightlyEccentric]

We shouldn't be

[Ronald_25]

They are, and I wish they weren't, for all the reasons said here, but also because their infrastructure is crumbling as they spend so much money on their defence budgets

[Jersey2]

At least from my point of view as an American, we don’t feel that we are involved… not directly. I hope we don’t get involved but if we do you will definitely know it.

To the point in infrastructure. I drive and use all sorts of transport here and it’s fine or better than fine. Yes there are always things that need attention but so do they in the UK. We are also building the transport system for Mars right now which is stunning! Plus probes and rovers on Mars, a solar probe operating near the sun, another one coming back from an asteroid with samples… the UK should do more in space.

[Ronald_25]

I definitely agree with you there @Jersey2 UK should do more in space...

[Anonymous]

America should help Israel reconquer it's lands back from Palestine as Palestine broke the regulations of UN mandate by attacking Israel so that argument stands null and void and Israel can and should annexx every single bit of their land possible back from the Arabs. Israel never initiated a war or a conflict just retaliated 10 times harder, it's not Israel's fault that hamas militants don't wear uniforms and some of them are females and children.

[007kingifrit]

maybe, its most important to hedge our bets to ensure our allies are victorious. israel is an important producer of American military tech, and a staging ground for troop deployment. most of all it is a geopolitical tool for controlling the arab states and making them join our alliances when we need them.

so at all costs israel must prevail over any regional nuisance.

[VanillaSalt]

Well first off if other countries war we should stay out of it because fuck them... second if we got involved we’d pick sides and it would probably with with palisades and no... I don’t support terrorism.

[pajamasam]

Western powers being world police is kinda the reason all this is happening in Israel. America needs to stop being the world police our military budget is way too damn big and we could use diverting that money somewhere else.

[007kingifrit]

this was all happening long before we became world police. the past 75 years since we became world police has been the most peaceful in history

[Floppy2112]

Nope. This has been going on for centuries, let them fight it out. I'd like to sit out of a conflict for a change. And I trust Israel has the situation well in hand.