Do you think firearms licences should be given to anyone with a learning disability or mental health disorder?

[Anonymous]

In the UK where there is no 5th amendment and so guns are widely not part of our daily lives,
An autistic 20s aged guy gained a firearms licence and murdered his family and anyone nearby.
However also in this debate people are suggesting he was an incel which should also be classed as a mental health disorder.

Given his mental state and social media activity it a licence could have been prevented had it been a requirement consult his medical records and investigate his social media activity. Apparently the said person had their licence revoked and then reinstated again.

Updates

+1 y

It is quite a debate whether Jake the recent gunman was an incel and whether incels are terrorists.
Anyone who has lived or been to Plymouth UK will know that many of the male students and residents actually look like hobos. They do indeed have girlfriends. Therefore assumptions based on appearance are flawed. Incels are not terrorists, they choose not to sleep with women, but will have people believe otherwise. It's a sort of defense mechanism to avoid feeling ashamed. Opinions are welcome

Updates

+1 y

Devon and Cornwall Police stripped Jake Davison of his weapon and shotgun licences after an alleged assault in September 2020 before handing them back last month when he agreed to attend an anger management course.
He would have had an Educational Health Care Plan which means the State recognises a special need and is legally bound to address it up to the age of 25.
The Independent Office for Police Conduct has launched an investigation.

This is just outrageous

[ChrisMaster69]

The gun controls within the UK were recently reviewed and updated as required.

The route to getting your initial firearms licence is fairly lengthy and a percentage are refused.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518193/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_April_2016_v20.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/667450/Form_201_-_21_Nov_2017_-_PDF.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/667451/Form_201V_-_21_Nov_2017_-_PDF.pdf

if mental impairment was something that resulted in loss of a licence, most farmers would lose their licences as a huge number suffer depression.

The biggest problem is where ‘townies’ try and influence gun control, without any knowledge of it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statistics-on-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-england-and-wales-april-2020-to-march-2021/statistics-on-firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-england-and-wales-april-2020-to-march-2021

You can legally own and licence, shotguns and rifles including.308 etc for hunting.

additionally, you can hold a special licence for 0.5 BMG rifles for extra long range target shooting - famous one being Barrett

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-2012/legislative-changes-that-have-been-made-since-the-guide-was-last-published-in-april-2016

we definitely do not need yet another regulation change, what does need to happen, is the reasons for ownership, medical review should be a bit more enforced.

Firearms rules and regulations as relate to the overarching law are reviewed yearly and no doubt this latest fuckwit scum will influence it.

However the last incident was 2010 or so.

[Asker]

I think purple poppy has pointed out the ways to get around mental health when you find guys who will give references so yes the checks for mental health I agree need to be reviewed better. However I think the checks were being carried out, the licence was revoked then he regained it. I think thats the where it's gone wrong. Someone could well be at fault and could face criminal prosecution for this.

[ChrisMaster69]

A person is able to report someone who owns a gun, if they believe they are a risk.

You can still own a firearm with mental health issues, if you doctor and police agree that there are no risks.
It’s not a prevention but it is something that gets reviewed.

Again, it’s the general public lack of knowledge over mental health.

[purplepoppy]

Some interesting statistics there on the government site. The fact that only 3% are refused shows how easy it is to get a licence. The main reason we don't see many uk shootings is we don't have a gung ho gun culture like the usa. "I want to shoot burglars" isn't a valid reason. I'd love to read the reasons the 3% got rejected

[ChrisMaster69]

@purplepoppy

@purplepoppy I’ve been rejected before due to having wrong date in, then had to resubmit, so I would like to know if that rejection rate also includes rejected paper work that is then accepted.

The other thing is we can legally possess high power rifles in the UK, and other than Ryan no one has used a rifle to shoot anyone.

There are a shit load of high power deer type killing rifles around, with very good scopes.

We also tend not to just own a firearm, because we can, majority are for valid reasons.

Luckily the Government did not ban 0.5 cal BMG stuff or similar and common sense prevailed.

[Asker]

3% seems such a low fail rate I wonder what the total figure is for successful applications.
Jake was allowed and that is catastrophic. The use of tragedy by the media is as though Jake was a main character in a novel. I'm not sure anyone would feel safe knowing someone in their neighbourhood owns a gun for hypothetical reasons. Why is it that in the military the carry of weapons must be signed daily in the accompanyment of another at all times, that's just the weapon, live ammo is a bundle of paperwork in a timed setting. But in civil life you can just keep it at home keep live rounds however long you want.

[purplepoppy]

The biggest deterrent for guns in the uk is that there's few places you can use them. Generally speaking you'll need the landowners permission and most of the time he'll already have a prior relationship with local hunters.

[ChrisMaster69]

@purplepoppy also, most places such as where I am in Northumberland, you have to notify the police that you are using weapons, such as rough shooting, pest control etc.

If you do not, you have a BMW X5 with a bunch of armed response police pointing their bang sticks at you.

Admittedly it’s also fun getting stopped by them and you are carrying rifles, especially ‘exotic’ stuff lol

[Asker]

Lol just an observation but Chris has advertised his location to PurplePoppy with a 30% probability its romantic reasons because he's stayed relationship: dating on his profile, anyways I'll carry and say it would be embarassing if the exotic weapon was to accidentally fire. "Shots fired shots fired, returning fire"

[Asker]

Lol I know I can be an asshole 😂 sorry Chris

[Asker]

back to the seriousness, i wonder if you've ever felt self-conscious of the potential to be hijacked.
When i went on a trip to a miltary barracks to pick up at the time the new M2 SA80 rifles, the journey back was the most quiet and nervous experience i felt. When i signed up for that i hadn't realised how dangerous it was. Obviously though i felt fine as i wouldn't have thought that anybody would do that. Well until i saw this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGZLYx8StWk

[ChrisMaster69]

Can’t say I ever felt concerned doing runs with weapons. We regularly booked out stuff, as long as you adhered to regs, there was never much hassle.

We regularly had secure convoys moving stuff a bit more concerning that rifles.

[DJB72]

I used to live near Plymouth. It's less of a hippy town than the town of Totnes about 30 miles north, but it is a college town.

At to whether mentally ill people should be able to get a firearms license, the question is surely self explanatory. If a person is depressed they may use that weapon to harm themselves or even end their own life.

A psychiatric assessment should be a part of any responsible government's licencing procedure to allow the ownership and use of lethal ordinance.

The second amendment was written centuries before the arrival of a repeating firearm. Not even the revolver was invented at that point, never mind the automatic pistol or even a submachine gun. The writers never imagined such horrific weapons.

Technology has advanced to the point that any idiot can kill indiscriminately in less than a heartbeat. Back at the time of the writing of the constitution they were using muskets and crossbows. I've used a crossbow, and while it's easier than a longbow to use, it's still more difficult than a modern rifle or pistol. I'm a qualified marksman on modern weapons, but I can't fire a bow or crossbow accurately.

It's common sense not to give lethal weapons to the mentally ill. Too bad Americans don't understand that.

[Asker]

thanks for your opinion, it appears in this thread i did come across one male and one female annoyance both American but the majority have been quite understanding.
The Devon authorities have majorly fucked up this time.

[rcljr]

Last I knew self harm or suicide isn’t a crime

[rcljr]

Nobody gives a damn

[DJB72]

@rcljr
Self harming isn't illegal, no. It fits into a pattern of escalation that can lead to harming others though.

You're wrong about nobody giving a damn. My friends list on Facebook is exclusively people who have, at some point, touched my life in a way that - in many cases - literally saved me.

I only found out how many people give a damn after I attempted suicide, then I got a reminder last year after I almost died of covid then lost my leg.

Most of the time people are too wrapped up in their own problems to see our pain. That doesn't mean that they don't care. It just means they are hurting too.

I'm finishing up retraining as a Life Coach and Counsellor at the moment. I had to make a few changes thanks to losing my leg, and a new career path was part of my journey.

Something that I realised after I woke up from the coma last year is that I can see past my own pain and use it to help other people. A few good people have done that for me in the past 12 months and that's challenging me to be a better man.

At school I suffered major depression. I attempted suicide then. But if I'd had access to a gun the way these school shooters in the USA have, I'd probably have taken out the bullies who pushed me there before I took my own life. I was the stereotypical "he was a quiet boy - kept to himself" kid who always seem to be the mass killers. I was a member of the shooting club and a marksman at both cadet and full military level. I actually got that good by picturing my tormentors on the targets.

As an adult I've learned a lot about myself and emotional pain management.

I've also learned that you'd be surprised not just at how many people care, but at who some of them are.

[Григорий]

Actually, you are wrong. Revolvers were around however not in the same capacity as the later models. In 1718 the puckle gun was created. It was a rapid fire flint lock revolver.

In 1777, Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter to George Washington recommending the then-president commission the creation of rapid-fire muskets, also known as repeating arms, invented by Philadelphia resident Joseph Belton. Franklin wrote that the new muskets — which Belton called the Belton Flintlock — could be used by the military to destroy enemy war ships.

“I have discovered,” Belton wrote to Congress on April 11, 1777, “an improvement, in the use of Small Armes, wherein a common small arm, may be maid to discharge eight balls one after another, in eight, five or three seconds of time.”

And Washington agreed to it. In May 1777, he authorized Belton to make 100 of his rapid-fire muskets

The founding fathers knew that we could achieve higher technology and they fully intended citizens to have the same weapons as the military.

[Григорий]

Additionally, in Thomas Jefferson’s Legal commonplace book he writes “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.”

The argument that founding fathers did not know about advancements in technology is completely moronic.

In 1787 (before the second amendment was passed) Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to the son in law of John adams “

That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

[purplepoppy]

Getting a firearm license in the uk isn't difficult but you do have to be sane. You need references to that effect and they can approach your doctor. The problem is you only ask people who will give you a positive reference. The main requirement for a uk license is you have to show a valid reason for wanting a gun, for example hunting or pest control. In any rural area you're guaranteed to know someone who shoots who'll vouch for your character and help you get a licence. Living on farm or even working on one pretty guarantees acceptance, the problem is undiagnosed mental health problems are common.

[Asker]

That is quite astonishing. Anyway many of the neighborhood knew this guy had autism, it would have been picked up in school. The suggestion it was down to being an incel is evading the true scale of the situation. It was not a tragedy which is what the media state when it's about a white person. It was v. calculated and nefarious because he shot his mother in the face and ended all his family. He had a personal issue with them and that's common for an autistic person. Gun ownership in Plymouth wasn't a surprise to hear however, I've been there visited a friend and she was very upset that a guy with a plot of land next to a national forest was killing wildlife that stepped on it. So what you said about finding the right people to get references from is likely how this guy was successful. The funny part of this event when the media had very little information to give, people blamed multiculturalism and Muslim terrorists. There aren't many if any terrorists in the UK who have acquired a gun legally or used one in an event. Which questions whether there are double standards.

[purplepoppy]

Given his history and autusm I think a lot of people need to be held accountable for what happened. The local police definitely need to be questioned as to why they allowed him to own a gun.

[Asker]

Good point, the licences would need to run through the police I imagine. They were more interested in the idea that there are 100s if not 1000s of IRA weapons that have been sold under the black market and kept hidden by the public. Instead they got gubbed by something that was under their nose already.

[Gnome0]

I just don't think having autism should be grounds for revoking a gun license. I don't own a gun, but unless it is blanket banned I should be able to obtain a license and go to the range autism or no autism. There needs to be a better reason than that one specifically.

[purplepoppy]

Even the autism society recognises that people with autism can be a danger to others and themselves www.autism-society.org/.../
It's completely bonkers to let them anywhere near a gun

[TrueConfection]

Lots of people have learning disabilities. A learning disability is not a crime nor does it make someone a potential criminal.

I don't believe in treating people like criminals unless they have committed a crime or there is evidence they are plotting a crime.

[Anonymous]

ohhhh, so you think a person's social media should be used to determine their credibility or ability to make purchases? I know what you're getting at, but sorry, it's a little too close to the "social credit score" China and Facebook are trying to push. If you all of a sudden have the "wrong think", then you're not allowed to vote/buy a gun/do whatever other actions they wish to stop you from--in effort to control you. So no thanks.
And for weirdass liberals who think it's just crazy conspiracy theories, Zuckerberg has given speeches and expressed a desire to implement this system in the US and other countries.
I think you gotta go on a case by case basis, because clearly someone shouldn't be labeled as "mentally unfit" if they just hate women. Look how many women and other men are out there hating men right now, and nobody saying shit about them. lol. It's just like how, not everybody who believes in lizzard people is out there killing their kids when they think their wife is a lizzard person and spreading lizzard people DNA.

Having different opinions does not make people a "threat" to society. Not everyone who supports liberalism or conservatism has a mental state that pushes them to commit violence, and they shouldn't be treated as such.

[Asker]

When it comes to deadly weapons im afraid you can't ignore anything. The person needs to be sane, not so hateful in society that they are vulnerable to just going on a rampage. Long before violence occurs often there are moments when they couldve been stopped, every fuckin time. Ofcourse there are some people who are nefarious and live normal lives to avoid going under the radar. And i agree with you social media shouldn't be monitored so much as to stop people expressing their views. However you can't believe it isn't and that you won't be judged.

[hahahmm]

"incels are terrorists" -- Incel is often used as an insult but it means involuntarily celibate. That would cover 95% of boys who just hit puberty. Should we put them in orange jump suits and lock them in cages? Please.

There's a lot that's wrong with modern society but instead of address the root causes people want to put all their energy into arguing about some of the symptoms.

[Asker]

i totally agree, the actual event before the incident is what caused it. Media like to distract because they don't want to talk about the root cause, because frankly they can only speculate. But we all know what happens with families... arguments and there often domestic violences just not on this scale.

[DonkeyDan]

Considering it is so difficult to get a license for a firearm in this country you'd think they would be more checks or mental health evaluations. I think it should be a standard practice for gun ownership, with 3 or 5 yearly reviews. Also the ability for a concerned citizen to be able to report someone they are concerned about. Sure you can call the police but if policies are not in place for correct evaluation then nothing will ever come of it.

[Asker]

yes i think this is now being investigated and reviewed by our govt. Somehow the guy's licence was revoked and reinstated as long as he went to an angermanagement class. Who in the right mind would make it easy. The stats say that only 3% of applications were refused and sometimes this occurs because an error on the form.

[The-Wise-Phoenix]

No, And that is coming from a very staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment who owns many firearms.
In the US that part of the background check when any firearm purchase is made.
Unfortunately due to human error sometimes one will slip past the goalie.

[Asker]

yeah i think that a human error slipped once is understandable it happens, but when it occurs numerous times to someone with who was previously warned, it's then negligence right?

[The-Wise-Phoenix]

The incident at Virginia tech was like that.
The guy who did that shooting should have been in a padded cell wearing a straight jacket. There were many warning signs.

[The-Wise-Phoenix]

Yes that is bad negligence

[Qdbrown]

Learning disability and mental illness are two different things. Mental illness is a big no. Most learning disabilities are no big deal. Most learning disabilities are issues learning conventionally.

Most firearm training is done physically, and with a lot of patience. There is not a lot of pressure to read and write. But how to functionally shoot and maintain the firearm.

Most people with learning disabilities learn easier when it's hands on. They still quicky know between right and wrong, understand and empathize with living people, sometimes more so.

[Anonymous]

As a person with a very light autistic spectrum I can say it depends. In my case i can think perfectally normal and understand people perfectally normal. Only problem is that due to my light autism I have some kind of social anxiety thats about it. It really depends which mental disorder you have and how heavy it is. In my case people dont even know I have it.

[Asker]

interesting, its good to know yourself. Social Anxiety improves over time if you surround yourself with the right people who give you the confidence. I was 18 once, i stepped into london and every interaction i got better and eventually i met the right friends.

[Cherry234]

Definitely not. If a person is mentally ill and/or has a learning disability and is holding a gun, he/she has to be stopped. Peoples' lives are at stake at that point

[Asker]

common sense doesn't seem to prevail all the time, it appears the gun licence application could have involved false representation references from other white male gun owners willing. I've previously suggested double standards and typically the responses go on the defensive and play down the issue at hand. Why because they still want to go on shooting leisurely.

[Cherry234]

Wow that's unbelievable. I guess safety or doing the right thing isn't important to some people

[Asker]

it's not like history doesn't dictate, white americans ran the wild wild west. You dont see guns being such a big topic outside the west.

[Cherry234]

true

[rcljr]

Oh, the truth comes out, it’s the white males again, go fuck yourself with a cactus

[Asker]

@rcljr stop making this out to be a race hatred thing dumbass

[rcljr]

Where do you see race in my response, cocksucker? Go fuck yourself with a cactus.

[Ryfyle]

@Cherry234 So the Autistic are murderous monsters by default.

[Cherry234]

@Ryfyle I didn't imply that. I never said autistic people are murderers

[Ryfyle]

@Cherry234 No you did. "If a person is mentally ill and/or has a learning disability and is holding a gun, he/she has to be stopped. Peoples' lives are at stake at that point ", A Direct quote. You straight up call them potential murder machines. People like you make it hard for anybody to get help for their Mental Illness because you have labeled them to be monsters and dangerous psychos.

[Cherry234]

@Ryfyle I didn't say all mentally ill people are monsters and dangerous. There are people out there that are a danger to others whether they are mentally ill or not. People who have mental illnesses should get the help they need. That's not what I mean to say when I posted my opinion. Ofc they should and I encourage it

[Ryfyle]

You said it again. Like you straight up still implied that the Mentally Ill are dangerous to society at large. People like you would kill someone with a slight Anxiety disorder if it makes you feel safe at night. Mentally Ill monsters can't harm society if their dead, right?

[Cherry234]

@Ryfyle I'm not making generalizations about mentally ill people. I said even people who aren't mentally ill can still be a danger to society. Just because a person suffers from depression or anxiety doesn't mean he/she is going to kill people

[Ryfyle]

So you straight up contradict yourself once the heat gets in. How fucking Spineless of you.

[Asker]

@Ryfyl and you are just a troll. You've demonstrated that you don't give a monkeys about mentally ill people you just wanted to pick a fight. Stop wasting people's time. Did you know someone depressed who is on anti depressants and drinks could ruin their families lives either with suicide or aggression caused by the mix. They didn't solve their own problems they wanted a quick fix and keep on being a piece of shit they don't acknowledge their own behaviour. So when you talk about little, that little is the starting point of progressive chaos. And yes some are good and self aware so they'll accept they are in a bad place do what's necessary to get better. However others are a danger to anyone around them. Getting help is about solving the issues not revealing your dangerous. The moment you ask for help nobody thinks your dangerous.

[Cherry234]

@Ryfyle You're being rude. Get off my post

[Ryfyle]

Blah blah blah. What it all boils down to is the Elimination of the "Mentally Defective" through death, that's what modern popular culture wants from Psychiatry these days.

[Alwayreckles93]

@Ryfyle She never said they were murder monsters. People with mental illness can tell the difference between reality or imagine things. It is dangerous for a mental insane person to own a gun. Look what happen years ago Sandy hook Elementary didn't a disable dude went off shooting innocent children and teachers.

[Alwayreckles93]

Cherry234 I agree with you look what happened years ago Sandyhook Elementary remember some dude with autism went off shooting innocent children and teachers for no reason. Yet dumb people think it's okay for mentality instable people to have the right own a gun , This is insane.

[Cherry234]

@Alwayreckles93 Yeah I remember that. Even if they don't end up shooting other people they can still be a danger to themselves

[Alwayreckles93]

Yes exactly , These people are so close minded to understand.

[Ryfyle]

@Alwayreckles93 So you agree with @Cherry234 That the mentally Ill are Defective Sub Humans.

[Anonymous]

Of course not. You might as well slit their throats. Many people who have this illnesses after all deal with for one depressive moods that make them suicidal and you just gave them a way to blow their brains out.

[Pterodon]

Bullshit answer. If they’re hell bent on suicide not allowing them a gun won’t stop them. Look at Robin Williams

[Opinion Owner]

@Pterodon Use your teeny brain you uneducated fool. A gun is an easier means than pills, slitting wrists, etc.

[Alwayreckles93]

I agree

[Pterodon]

Doesn’t change the fact if they want to commit suicide they’re going to do it period.

[Pterodon]

Uneducated fool

[Opinion Owner]

@Pterodon No you're the uneducated fool. Guns are some of the easiest means to commit suicide. They do not require much thought nor planning. Consuming pills, slitting your throat/wrists, or hanging yourself takes balls in comparison. ... Besides people with mental issues are oftentimes just as much a threat to themselves as they are others if not more a danger to others so why would you allow them to have guns unless stupid?

[Pterodon]

Your full of shit

[Opinion Owner]

@Pterodon Your response was > Your full of shit < thank you for confirming you are someone of low intelligence and limited comprehension.

[Pterodon]

Most suicides aren’t guns. In fact the number one suicide by choice for women is pills so fuck off

[Opinion Owner]

@Pterodon Ah cry me a river. Boo hoo. Why don't you fuck off you inbred turd. People are allowed their own options that's what you Americans bitch like ass fucked whores about.

[Pterodon]

I just proved you wrong

[Asker]

There would be many teen suicides if we all had easy access to guns. Our brains don't work properly when in panic we don't think straight so I agree with the girls that as other options are harder it helps because you don't go through it in the end. Many will have got past the event and are now living a happy life.

[Pterodon]

I’ve owned guns my whole life and so has many others. That’s pure speculation

[Anonymous]

It is the 2nd Amendment which provides the 'right to bear arms' (amoung much more important things like not having a standing army in peace time).

The 5th amendment has a component stating that no one will be compelled, in a criminal case to be a witness agaisnt themselves.

Im not quite sure why you think dyslexics are dangerous?

Pretty much everyone has a mental disorder being the definition of having a mental disorder may as well be: being human.

Frankly I think everyone should be armed.

[AngelLily]

As Long said person knows what to do and is mentally well enough to be safe with others and themselves around with a gun then I don’t see the problem just like anyone else without and disability getting a gun.

[Asker]

yeah that is fair to say, just there's the issue around how a person treats others normally.

[Neko911]

Nope. As someone with a history of mental health issues and suicide attempts yeah I shouldn't be allowed 2 own a gun

[Asker]

Sorry to hear you went through a bad time, hope you are happier and found someone to enjoy life with

[Neko911]

Naw he broke up with me about 2 months ago lol

[Asker]

whoops well he wasn't the right person then, at least he was there for you however long you were together.

[Alwayreckles93]

NO! That's extremely dangerous and people's life are in danger.

[Asker]

exactly what i thought however it seems not everybody agrees.

[Cherry234]

@alwayreckles93 I said the same thing and I'm getting crap for it

[Alwayreckles93]

@Cherry234 Thank you seems like you the guy on top and I are the only normal ones here.

[Cherry234]

@alwayreckles93 Yeah sounds right

[exitseven]

It is the 2nd Ammendment, not the 5th. the Fifth prevents self incrimination.

[Asker]

oh i see, thanks for the correction. Anyway the fifth seems to be ignored a lot and people just tend to talk.

[DarkWinterNights]

It very much depends on where they lay on the spectrum. I know adults where you can’t tell as it’s a mild case. My niece on the other hand has it fairly bad and will likely never even drive so teaching her about firearms safety would only have an opposite effect.

[EaterPeter]

Definitely not. There should be physio arousal test. Person to be putted in different arousing situations during the test. Short fused people should be denied.

[Asker]

very good point, this was something i went through as a junior cadet in military academies. Every aspect of our behaviour was observed. This is why i think it's important to test. But having said this even the coolest people are nefarious.

[EaterPeter]

Thanks for like!

[EaterPeter]

Liked "even the coolest people are nefarious."

[Asker]

haha you're welcome and ty aswell, im sure you have had a few shocks in your life

[EaterPeter]

Definitely

[sweetbaelovins]

Each case needs separate evaluation then a decision made

[Asker]

excellent response!

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on the severity of both. Many people can live Normal Lives with either. I also think they should have a right to protect themselves (like everybody else) if they are truly in Harms Way.

[Asker]

good point, thanks for your opinion

[CharlieBadger]

I think you mean 2nd Amendment.

The 5th amendment protects against self incrimination. Mainly you can't force a person to testify in a trail where they are the accused. It's also why people will say "I plead the 5th"

[Asker]

yeah that was a typo, thanks for pointing it out

[Anonymous]

In america every black gang member with a violent record has access to firearms. I dont see how it can get any worse. The media basically ignores their violence as expected. They have no positive expectations of black people so they laser focus on any white persons gun usage.

[yofuknutz]

Unless they are locked up not a threat innocent until proven guilty find crime carrying a gun

[Asker]

vigilante?

[Anonymous]

I mean most mentally people are just depressed and the only person they're likely to shoot is themselves.

I think it's unkind to withhold the swift mercy of a death by gun that you'd offer a suffering farm animal from a human being. But hey life's not fair I guess.

[Likes2drive]

In New York USA they do a full background check and 4 references from people that know you before you can even get a permit for a pistol but in most other states you just need a drivers license to get one

[Asker]

That is why I'll never live in the USA, walking out of the house with a gun is a mindset of a troublemaker.

[Likes2drive]

Not many do that here in New York USA because you need another type of permit for that as a concealed weapon permit, that’s even harder to get so it’s pretty safe here but in some southern and Midwest states everyone is packing so I guess if anyone tries something they will get shot right back, kind of like a balance of power

[Asker]

You mean retribution, fair enough but when the person then shoots themself then the result is a loss of life over a spat outside a car park sort of like wild wild west.

[Likes2drive]

Yeah road rage is a problem like that because both of them could have guns, some people get shot over a parking spot

[Asker]

Oh I've seen. See what gun carrying does. The part where you said concealment is interesting. I didn't realise people needed a licence for that. It wasn't mentioned in a testimony when a guy pulled out a gun from nowhere and shot a guy in a parking lot who was actually backing away. The guy got manslaughter charges instead of murder because he claimed self defence. If the concealed weapon was not permitted then his sentence should have taken that into consideration in prosecution.

[Pterodon]

New York’s gun laws are so unconstitutional it’s pathetic. Wtf is wrong with the people there to allow it?

[Asker]

@Pterodon America's history is wild wild west shoot first ask questions later, sort of why American Indians who only had sharp weaponary are extinct. That is the kind of thing you associate with animals not humans. But we've now just heard about a genocide in Yemen.

[Pterodon]

We’re not the UK nor do we want to be. This is why we left you

[Asker]

@Pterodon white and black Americans deserted Africa and invaded America, Europe and the UK. And the funny thing about it is that you're all the same people and have always lived amongst each other but you hate each other. And when you invaded America you hated indians aswell. Being born into this world it's quite a horrible understanding of human life.

[Lj0011]

Good to hear some states have common sense

[Likes2drive]

With everything else going on who knows what to expect

[rcljr]

Bull shit, I do it every day because I value my families life and will protect them, it’s not like I can carry an armed policeman around in my pocket.

[rcljr]

Truthfully we don’t give a damn what you foreigners think about anything we do here. You dumb fucks can’t even drive on the correct side of the road.

[Likes2drive]

@rcljr I guess that was directed towards someone else on here, I live in the USA

[Lj0011]

@rcljr don't be such a snow flake now. Go back to denying science thinking the earth is flat and jesus was an American.

[Iron_Man]

Not mental patient learning disabilities are different

[Anonymous]

I'm British, autistic and have handled far more powerful guns than the one used in this shooting but in controlled ranges

I don't have a license but you don't need them on the ranges because it is entirely self-contained

[Asker]

this is fine, im not questioning that. How im questioning how freely licences are handed to literally anybody. We all know ourselves that emotionally driven situations could end badly in that moment. People are impulse driven so having a deadly weapon in our hands is the worst possible scenariou. Anybody can experience being wronged, but is it acceptable to give a licence to anyone who is more susceptible?

[Opinion Owner]

Here it is all on references which is a flawed system as poppy mentioned below

[Asker]

appreciate your opinion

[ElizaPam]

I’m in Tennessee we don’t need a license lol freedom!

[Asker]

i hope you live a long life ☹

[Lj0011]

Jesus christ can't see how that isn't dangerous

[ElizaPam]

@Lj0011 because we’re not children that needs the government to be our nanny

[Asker]

right your not children (immature) but you need guns

[ElizaPam]

Uh yeah I need guns what do you expect me to do if I’m being attacked by men? Fight them off with my lady muscle?

[Asker]

what if he was trying to pull out a dildo to ask if this is yours and you not knowing his intention shot him. Would you run and take the dildo with you or call the cops and explain it was self defense? 😂

[rcljr]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[Lj0011]

No one is a child you can own a gun for defence no argument against that. What im saying is that you should have to go through a process to filter out people with mental health issues that can snap. I wonder why the world looks at America with disgust at times.

[rcljr]

They are tools, like any other tool, that liberal psychos misuse them is no surprise, liberals are all on a third grade mental level.

[rcljr]

@Lj0011 , we have that, it’s called background checks and there are hundreds of thousands of people on the no buy list, all felons, abusers, mental cases. That some slip through the cracks is inevitable due to constraints on medical records under HIPAA.

[ElizaPam]

@Lj0011 I was feeling suicidal after my ex left so you know what I did? I sold my handgun to a friend. I don’t need the government to babysit me.

[Lj0011]

@rcljr one I'm not an American two being cautions about gun control is sensible three labeling someone as just another this or that is extremely lazy and stupid four i dont like sjw types either but you're putting me in the same basket as them. Jesus christ no wonder so many good americans are embarrassed when they travel abroad with lazy ignorant minds like you.

[ElizaPam]

@Lj0011 American LIBERALS are embarrassed because they don’t understand how free we are and how your country copied all its freedom from our constitution. Your great grandparents had to bow to a king, mine moved here to get out of a monarchy, m8.

[Lj0011]

Omg 😂🤣🤣 yeah your American Constitution gave every other western nation the freedom it enjoys today. Not the foundation of Jeduo-christian values formed in Europe over 2,000 years nor the enlightenment in France? 🤣😅 MERICA FU** YEAH. Oh god you're the laughing stock of the world and you're proud of it.

[rcljr]

@Lj0011 , ok sjw

[Exterminatore]

@Lj0011

Actually our Constitution did do that. It was revolutionary for its time. It inspired the revolution in France. Once the world saw a bunch of colonists took on the biggest empire in the world and won, other countries followed suit. The king in England is just a figure head with no real power. France no longer has a monarch. Where are the German counts and Barons today? Where’s the Holy Roman Emperor today?

A lot of that was spurred on directly by what happened in America.

America is not the laughing stock because of this. We are because we let men with inverted penises play women’s sports and because we pull out of Afghanistan so the Taliban can literally take it over. We are because we open our southern borders to illegals yet talk about how covid is so deadly and ignore the 18% of illegals entering with covid. That’s why we’re a laughing stock.

[Guffrus]

@ElizaPam

I think its important you understand that the right to bear arms is a left / liberal position.

I realise this is confusing to you as your political system is a clown fiesta.

[Григорий]

@ElizaPam

I’m glad to see not everyone here is an idiot lol!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem!

[madgoat]

You mention autism. Is that a known fact? I hadn't heard that.

[Asker]

it is a fact, he was diagnosed with autism and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. He had gone to a special needs school.

[FunkyMonkee]

You mean people like Chairman Joe and the rest of the loony lefties? I'd move to another planet!

[Rangers]

No because nobody needs a license to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms.

[OddBeMe]

Sure. And gun owners. We should know who may be armed on the road and in their houses. If I move into a neighborhood, I should know who has an arsenal next door.

[Exterminatore]

I think guns should be handed out to everyone and anyone like candy on Halloween.

[John_Doesnt]

But then we'd have to ban all conservatives from getting a gun.

[yofuknutz]

You know what just hand in your name title give it up and hanging up while you're at it

[John_Doesnt]

@yofuknutz give up your brain child magic man chicken bake

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

FYI: Second Amendment

"Shall not be infringed."

[Григорий]

2nd amendment* the 5th amendment is due process, protection against self incrimination, double jeopardy and some other stuff.

[Ryfyle]

It's not the 5th amendment, that's self incrimination. What you're talking about is the Second Amendment.

[rcljr]

She spouting on and on about America, fkn cunt doesn’t even live here or know the Constitution, just a Brit leftie piece of trash thinking her opinion on anything matters.

[Twalli]

The 5th amendment is against self incrimination. I think you mean the 2nd amendment.

[Anonymous]

Why not , That's pretty much what they do in America.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe in licenses, background checks, or any other requirements for gun purchases. You just go in and buy the darn thing. But then what HAPPENS with it, you become responsible for

[QuietRunner]

No I don't think they should have them

Also they don't need large knives either

[humanearth]

I think you should not need a licence to own a gun. Thats how the goverment knows who has them and will start door to door gun grabs

[Asker]

knowing you have a gun means you'll take care with it, works both ways. If you're irresponsible you lose that right to own it. If everyone around you became lawless you'd need the government.

[humanearth]

Wrong, it way to track who owns them and to make money off of people.

Wake up and smell the loss of freedom

[Asker]

ofcourse I've said before to a person owning guns is another tax on the working class. You choose though whether you want to own one or not. I personally can live without it im in a country that doesn't regularly have gun crime. I dont look at others the wrong way and non confrontational. Confrontational types will eventually meet the wrong person.

[humanearth]

Well I am a hunter and use guns

By the way, how do they do gun hunting over by you

[Asker]

its likely quite similar. Certain lands have rights to use guns for hunting, they have to put up warning signs all over the place. Sometimes these are next to national forests which i dont think is acceptable as wildlife will cross over. Guns need licences but accepted for explicit reasons like kulling rodents and farms cattles, gunneries for leisure fun, Military areas. The police are made aware routinely. It is usually so controlled here unlawful gun crime is low. There is knife crime instead.

[humanearth]

Well take away one weapon anther will take its place. They can't stop it. Like say they bannd rocks. Well people are still going to use them

And thanks on whats hunting like in your area

[Asker]

ah i see your point there, giving someone a gun legally goes on record so then you know them. I picked up on something that i'll always remember, if anybody i come across actively talks about guns in day to day life.. im avoiding them. I was in the military and not once did anyone there talk about guns and rifles in a non-military way. However when i met 'squadies' regular soldiers they had an entirely different persona when drinking they bragged about going out to war and wanting to kill. That changed my opinion being in that career and i left. I ofcourse would have made a very good officer.

[humanearth]

See there is point I was trying to make. It just took you a bit to see what I was trying say. I am not a good speaker sometimes. But you finely understood the poubt I was trying make

[rcljr]

America has the Second Amendment, since you are British out laws and customs are none of your business.

[Asker]

you didn't answer the question.

[rcljr]

You Brits do what you like, we’ll do what we like.

[Asker]

this isn't about like, it's about the impact of licences being handed out to people aren't quite stable.
Perhaps you'd be willing to if you see a video from the USA of an American who decided to shot someone who twice backed away and died infront of their family and child.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0iN5J-9mk

[rcljr]

What’s your stance on people being killed by drunk drivers? Is it the drunk drivers fault or the cars fault?

[Asker]

what kind of bs is this now, i asked you to comment on a video for legitimate interest and youve decided to again not answer.
To save yourself the trouble.
The prosecuter in response to that incident said the guy had been warned previously and that he should never have been allowed to possess a firearm because he didn't know how to responsibly handle it. The prosecuter was a white American so dont give me shit about 'oh this about white people' blah blah.. its not.

[LonewolfMeme]

No..

[Asker]

This is occurring though hardly a challenge

[LonewolfMeme]

Thing is it could be a depressed person or autistic person it’s just dangerous especially if they don’t know how or when to use it. It’s not just dangerous for them but for others around them

[Asker]

I can't disagree. I thought this was common sense by the 21st century but it turns out the world is going backwards and becoming the wild wild west again

[Sabretooth]

not those mentally unstable.

[Sia_nee]

Sounds extremely dangerous so nope

[karaspara]

No and God bless Keyham

[Gnome0]

If they have no criminal record, yes.

[Gnome0]

If it is legal, I think specifically making it illegal for autistic people is wrong and ableist. Now, if threats are made, it should be revokable.

[Asker]

what reasons do you think someone should own a gun?

[Gnome0]

Self-defense, survival hunting, job requires a gun (police, body guard, military), competing in the olympics. I'm not a gun owner, and god knows I could get one with permitless carry being legal in my state (dumb but legal).

[Asker]

to me its so strange that it would be part of self-defense as how often does anyone get caught up in something bad. This to me is why i believe USA is so edgy.

[Gnome0]

I don't think learning disabilities should be a reason to ban anything. If you want to make it harder to access guns, tighten the laws for everyone.

[Asker]

i agree, i think its as much anyones current mental and physical state that should be assessed

[Gnome0]

Okay, then why did you mention learning disabilities at all?

[888theGreat]

No, and that would mean no liberals can own one

[Fuentes]

If your MENTAL nope

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

I don't

[Anonymous]

Obviously not!

[Anonymous]

Yes.

[Asker]

why yes?