For those who believe psychological evaluations should be given to people who wish to own guns, what is the cutoff?

[ShadezMcgee]

Cutoff in terms of mental illness, anyway. Is it anybody who sought help and treatment via therapy? A specific mental illness? Any mental illness in general? Confirmed mental illness from a psychologist?

This is where it gets blurry, because lots of people don't disclose what would be the editing factor if this was implemented. Furthermore, are these therapist and psychologists apolitical?

[OlderAndWiser]

The psychotherapy business is HEAVILY weighted towards the far left. I'm sure that psychotherapists would promise to be neutral in their evaluations but I have no confidence they would fulfill that promise.

[ShadezMcgee]

That's one big reason I am against it. I would be concerned it wouldn't be a fair eval. I mean, I get the feeling would be like.

"I am here for a psych evaluation to confirm I am mentally git to own a weapon."

Psychologist: "Of course!" (Meanwhile checking box for unfit because they want a weapon at all).

[Roxxy99]

No one has a good answer to that question. At what point does someone become a liability to society? The answer can vary on a case by case basis or depend on who is evaluating you and their personal biases. There just isn’t a clear standard. The only thing I am sure of is there should always be a path for those. who are denied their rights to gain them back if they can prove competency.

[BeMuse]

Psychologists design torture regimes for black sites. They are the last people on earth you want to give power to when it comes to your rights. They are evil people and if you give them power, they will use it against you.

[ShadezMcgee]

I agree. I feel mental illness would be exploited or used as an extreme bar against one who wishes to purchase a firearm. It is a flawed idea.

[Fuentes]

If you ever been 5150'd the hospital reports you on a list of being admitted. So in background checks with the FBI they can easily deny you from buying a gun when the check comes back, it comes up when you apple for anything, Military, Federal or Gov jobs with the state, county or City.

But they should start marking those who go into the Dr's offices and are prescribed certain pills for certain dangerous mental illnesses or have a large history of mental illness. That makes them crazy obviously with the exception of regular depression. Such as things like loss of a family member & the regular etc human emotional stuff, that's harmless.

[Fuentes]

Apply**

[exitseven]

Anyone who has been admitted to a mental hospital should be flagged and evaluated by a psychiatrist and maybe a follow up investigation by the local cops should be done. Maybe have the local cops to background checks on everyone that asks for a gun permit.

[Sixgunsound]

The soviets weaponized psychology against their population to the pointvthat it was understood that not seeking help was preferable.

[ShadezMcgee]

Right, which is why I am asking what level of mental illness would we call the show stopper from getting a firearm if this became a thing?

Are we only looking at certain mental illnesses? Or do we look at the extreme and say that anyone who has sought help for mental issues is immediately barred? What if just wanting a gun immediately makes you ineligible? See what I mean?

It is a flawed idea

[Sixgunsound]

It is absolutely a flawed idea. It It only good for abusive gun-grabbers.

[Jennz6]

Yes I do

[ShadezMcgee]

Okay, but what is the cut off in your eyes? What level of mental illness are we talking is the end process to bar a person from getting a firearm?

[Jennz6]

@ShadezMcgee poor judgment and no psychos

[Sixgunsound]

Everybody has a bad day at work. , or makes a bad stock trade, or has a fight with their significant other at some point. You're suggesting that those who make the mistake of asking for help about it instead of doing something about. It have just forfeit a lifetime ban on their constitutional rights? All that is doing is making people not get help. This is actually making the problems worse not better.

[Jennz6]

@Sixgunsound history of psychological problems

[Sixgunsound]

In my state merely asking for help earns you a lifelong ban.

[Sixgunsound]

No matter what if any the findings are.

[Jennz6]

@Sixgunsound maybe you are right. Did you hear about Florida’s proposed “Constitutional carry”

[Sixgunsound]

More than half of the states already have it florida's actually behind the curve in this.

[OddBeMe]

Usually the experts put in their files, “Not a good idea to allow death dealing tools…”

[Agagagagaga]

Ah okay. So no knives, explosives, poisons, or home-made bombs will get used. Got it.

[OddBeMe]

@Agagagagaga right…oh wrong according to stats. Criminals tend to use the easiest death tools. AR 15s are a fave. Knives kill less if at all.

[Agagagagaga]

If you think it’s EASIER to go out and buy an AR than it is to build a bomb or grab a knife, then uh, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

[OddBeMe]

@Agagagagaga not easier per se, but it’s not hard to buy. Which is my fckin point.

[Agagagagaga]

An AR is absolutely hard to buy. A person has to get into their car, drive to a gun store, fill out paperwork, provide identification, wait for the authorities to do the background check, and only then are you allowed to take that firearm from the store.

Any idiot can stick a rag in a bottle of vodka and throw it at someone. Or just get a knife and start swinging. You know I’ll do you one better, on the way to the gun store a person could just get into their car and drive into a parade. Fuck it.

But guns! ARs! Oh no! We make it too easy! 🤦‍♂️

[ShadezMcgee]

That didn't answer the question

[OddBeMe]

@Agagagagaga or find a gun show booth willing to do a private sale.

[OddBeMe]

@ShadezMcgee What Q?

[ShadezMcgee]

@OddBeMe the question right here. You never gave any examples of how to implement mental evaluations or what constitutes a fair evaluation to eliminate potential political bias or what illnesses are considered too dangerous for firearm purchase.

I know I have seen you pushing for it in answers to other questions. So let's hear it.

[OddBeMe]

Wow…I’m not an expert on any of those areas. But looking at previous mass shooters and seeing the variety of ailments they had and actual red flags that were either ignored or overlooked could help.

[OddBeMe]

As I said, the experts.

[ShadezMcgee]

And if you look at the ones that actually were reported and had had trouble or concerns voiced to law enforcement, they were not acted upon. Had that happened, some of these mass shootings wouldn't have happened.

Nikolas Cruz and Bobby Crimo were two that should have been acted on and weren't by law enforcement.

[ShadezMcgee]

So again, give me some examples. Which mental illnesses do you believe should be denied firearms? Should people who sought therapy for treatment be barred for that alone as well?

[OddBeMe]

I’m confused. What “experts” and what did they recommend? Cuz my experts say gun violence is worse than heart disease.

www.publichealth.columbia.edu/.../gun-violence-prevention-experts-respond-mass-shootings

https://rockinst.org/gun-violence/researchers/

Even the fckin Rand corp lists “most agreed upon strategies” are reducing amount of guns.
www.rand.org/.../in-search-of-common-ground.html

[ShadezMcgee]

I will take a look at these links, so thanks for giving some reading material for me to look at and counter.

I wasn't asking about experts. I was asking your personal stance on which mental illnesses you thought were a no go for people seeking guns. Not experts. Yours. Which ones and why.

[OddBeMe]

I have no idea which mental illnesses. But providing some stop gaps or any gaps between buying a gun and getting a gun tends to limit mass murders or suicides.

[ShadezMcgee]

But this is what I am getting at. A lot of Progressives and leftists that want to add more laws or complicate gun laws that are already in place and can work if enforced want mental health evals to be a thing. Yet no one can give an honest opinion amd would rather use "experts" words as their own.

They want to limit it to those with "mental illness". Okay, very broad brush. Which illnesses are you all referring to? Anxiety? Bipolar? Schizophrenia? Depression? Any hint of it, regardless if treatment is being given?

This is what I am saying. I cannot take this statement seriously when no one that brings this up can give an idea of which illnesses are the no go for aspiring gun owners. And on top of that, this isn't counting conflict of interest of politics coming into play either.

Who is to say the therapist is apolitical or biased and against guns who will intentionally lie about someone who can be mentally sound in judgment and cognitive reasoning to keep them from obtaining them? It would not surprise me at all if that was something that happened and I would expect that to be an issue.

[OddBeMe]

Maybe because common commentators aren’t psychiatrists. But consensus from mental health experts has been strong and unchanged for decades that simplistic red flags (much like watch lists) could be used for those with history of domestic violence, serious depression, etc…