How would the 2021 phase of the pandemic have been handled if Trump (or a 3rd party candidate) won the 2020 election?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I crunched some numbers on this to get an objective answer. Up to 01/20/2021, 402 K Americans and 2201 K people died as a result of the pandemic so up until that point, 18.26% of all COVID deaths occurred in the US. As of the posting of this question (10/08/2021) a total of 711 K people died in the US and 4,849 K deaths occurred in the US (since Biden became president, 309 K Americans and 2647 K people died worldwide) so under Biden 11.67% of all COVID deaths occurred in the US. So relative to the global death rate, Americans were dying at 1.7 times the rate under Trump than Biden so if Trump won the election, we probably would have had an additional ~174 K Americans would have died. Although to be fair to Trump, I think there could have been worse outcomes. For example, if by some fluke Jo Jorgensen won, I think we'd be looking at an additional million deaths.

[youreanidiot2]

For a vision of covid under trump in 2021 look no further than Ron DeathSantis in Florida. Trump would've pandered to the anti masker/vaxxer morons and fought vaccination and other safety efforts. This pandering would include a hands off approach to vaccine supply, management, and distribution which would further slow vaccination efforts. The vaccine has been estimated to have saved 279k lives, so I think deaths would be much higher than your estimate.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2021/jul/deaths-and-hospitalizations-averted-rapid-us-vaccination-rollout

[goaded]

Last week there were "only" 1,368 newly reported deaths in Florida (they've told the CDC about 91 of them, so they look good covid.cdc.gov/.../#cases_deathsper100klast7days ). Florida's new total, 56,667 comfortably overtook New York's total of 56,204 (and coming up fast on their deaths per million figure).

A year ago, when we'd got a handle on how to treat and avoid the disease, New York's deaths per million figure was 1,714, Florida's was 694.

Six months ago, when vaccines were becoming freely available, New York's deaths per million was 2,628, Florida's was 1,576.

Today, New York: 2,889, up 14 from the week before, Florida: 2,626, up 65 from the week before.

Florida is manipulating its covid death numbers! ↗

[Snakeyes7]

Trump would be constantly be butting heads with congress because he wants the lockdowns to be over as soon as possible and the buck stops with the state because it is the entity enforcing it while congress, regardless of party, would want the virus to be a scapegoat as an excuse to gain more control over the hearts, minds and actions of the people.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

If this had anything to do with control, they wouldn't have been willing to lift most of the containment measures when the case load was less severe (which they were).

[Snakeyes7]

They did away with one authoritarian measure and put in another. Both equally destructive to the economy.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

There was nothing authoritarian about the measures any more than an evacuation order when a hurricane is coming.

But anyway, restrictions were overall less strict when the new case rate was lower like it would have been if this was about safety versus vying for power.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

But hey, I bet you thought China became less authoritarian in 2016 when it let people keep endangered animals (like pangolins) in wet markets.

[Snakeyes7]

Yeah... getting people fired because they refused a medical procedure doesn't sound authoritarian at all. All of the US perhaps the world is paying for this mistake because of inflation since August is 5.3% and it is no doubt climbing.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Yeah, and if the government says you can't keep bats and pangolins in such close proximity that they are shitting on each other, it's blatantly authoritarian. No, like the vaccine mandate, it's about public safety and preventing people from passing the virus or act as a breeding ground for new strains of pathogens that the vaccine is ineffective against. Remember how for a year now you were saying if people are afraid of COVID, they can stay home? Well now if people are afraid of the vaccine, they can stay home. Which statement is more authoritarian? Well given the odds of dying from COVID vs the vaccine, the first one is.

[Snakeyes7]

Yeah but no one should be forced to stay home or lose their jobs over this crap. Our economy is crumbling because of this.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Our economy has been crumbling (we have a labor shortage and no lockdown for over a year now) because people are afraid to go to work and this has been an issue before the mandate.

[Snakeyes7]

Some would also argue that they ended up being dependent on unemployment benefits and the moratorium on evictions. I don't know I'm not either type of person. Not only would staying at home be boring as hell for me but I don't think we should shut down our economy as well as throwing the bill of rights in a blender all just because a sickness is going around. I have seen what that kind of coddling would do to people and it isn't pretty.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

They would conjecture that dependency is behind the labor shortage but there would be no way to back such a claim:

epod.cid.harvard.edu/.../dispelling-myth-welfare-dependency

The lockdown measures, let alone the vaccination and mask mandates don't violate the Bill of Rights (no one was denied the freedom of speech or due process). And if we didn't lock down the economy, the virus incapacitating the workforce; the American right has adopted this fascistic us versus them mentality when talking about how the vulnerable versus healthy but even though the virus may not be life threatening for most, it still makes you too sick to work. So if we did nothing, the economy would have been wrecked anyway and millions would have died.

[Snakeyes7]

The lockdown violated our first amendment right to freedom of assembly. The vaccine mandates violate the fourth amendment as it is an unreasonable search, this is why HIPAA was created.

By the way, in New York May of 2020, most people hospitalized from covid were the ones who stayed home possibly due to the fact that people who caught the virus getting groceries were trapped with it spreading around the home. www.cnbc.com/.../...s-are-people-staying-home.html

Locking down the economy means that people won’t be able to eat among many other things because they won’t be available anymore if we kept it shut for too long

“The American right has adopted the fascistic us versus them mentality when talking about the vulnerable versus healthy”

That’s funny, I seem to remember Biden saying earlier this year that we must “protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated” which makes the same implication.

Also, if we go by Mussolini’s 1932 Doctrine of Fascism’s definition of fascism, it states that it is “the merger of state and corporate interests.” Doesn’t that sound familiar? Our government requiring the consumption of a product that was made by a private corporation in order to allow us to keep our jobs and, in some places, access to goods and services? That sounds pretty fascistic to me.

Now, if we never had these mandates in the first place (which is what Biden promised us while he was running but of course that was a lie), people could obviously still take the vaccine. Perhaps they would be more willing to take it if it wasn’t required to keep their livelihood because there wouldn’t be any suspicions that the state was hiding something from them if they felt the need to mandate it.

One final note, how on Earth were humans able to manage a civilization since the beginning of time surrounded by diseases with no vaccines to protect them until several centuries ago? What a mystery.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

-Social distancing doesn't violate freedom of assembly any more than fire codes do and if you don't get vaccinated, you don't get searched, you just can't get a job at large companies.

-Oh way to knit pick, no policy is going to be fool proof but that doesn't mean that the economy wouldn't crash even harder (on top of millions of people dying) if we just let the virus rip.

-Yeah and in WW2 we talked about ridding Europe of the Fascist infestation. But I guess you think the people who were fighting the fascists were the real fascists. We're saying get vaccinated or stay home, you're saying stay home or risk dying. It's obvious who the bigger fascist is.

-How much is Pfiezer and Moderna making off the vaccine and how does that compare to how much the stimulus packages hurt how much the financial sector could be made.

-People would still take the vaccine but even more people would be taking it if they couldn't get a job if they didn't get it.

-Yeah and for most of civilization, most people died of infectious diseases before puberty. I know you jerk off to that vision of America but most people don't want to undo the progress made.

[Avicenna]

That’s as much propaganda as anything else you’ve posted

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

So just an assertion instead of a rebuttal on your part huh -_-