“Texas "fetal heartbeat' abortion law reinstated by appeals court ruling.” Your thoughts?

[Anonymous]

[Screenwriter]

I find it amazing that out of one side of conservatives' mouths there is the anti vax crusade touting about personal freedom, yet abortion rights, what a woman wishes to do with her personal life and her choice to bear a child or not, does not seem to rate the same.

The more egregious fact of this anti abortion argument, that has turned so dark as to have people INFORMING on others, as in Nazi Germany, is that fetal rights trump the rights of people who are here and force women to carry babies to term that they don't want.

The flip side of this is, "Oh, someone will adopt said babies!" This is NOT true and never has been. Poor, minority women's babies are NOT adopted and end up in the foster care system. And no one has the right to force a woman to carry a baby for a "potential" adopter somewhere down the line. Foster care children are invariably in the pipeline for lives rife with failure and disappointment. 75 percent of prisoners were in the foster care system.

In addition, nothing is done for these women or their babies AFTER the child is born. There are all sorts of services to support pregnant women to "save" their babies for whomever, but for the next 18 years, there is NO support for these women who KEEP their children. No financial, housing, childcare, training, job services... NOTHING to make single-parent women sucessful and their children Equally successful.

There is no minimum-wage woman seeking an abortion with low or no skills and little education who should be denied the choice of not having a baby.

Birth control pills and devices fail ALL THE TIME. They are either NOT used at all by the VERY young, because there is almost NO SEX EDUCATION in the schools to explain to youth how to prevent pregnancy, or they are used improperly, for the same reasons. And there is simple pregnancy prevention failure. Most middle class women who seek abortions are seeking abortions due to device failures. Secondarily, all classes of women seek abortions due to the fact that they have OTHER children they are already providing for.

The worse bottom line of all of this hubbub: This is ALL ABOUT telling women SEX IS BAD and they shouldn't have it unless they are married, or in committed relationships. And if they DO and get pregnant, THAT IS THEIR PUNISHMENT and they have to LIE in THE BED THEY"VE MADE.

This is such ANCIENT judgmental bullshit it makes me tired to see it STILL GOING ON!!!

A child should never come into the world as PUNISHMENT for SEX, failure of birth bontrol or to SUPPLY SOMEONE ELSE WITH A CHILD.

[Juxtapose]

100% agreed!

[BillyBalls]

Liberals point out that Covid "effects others".

Abortion "effects others"... namely the unborn.

[007kingifrit]

a vax doesn't require you to kill another. an abortion requires you to inherently and udeniably hurt another

[Archerer]

What’s shocking to me is the amount of women who’ve been brainwashed by religion to agree with this new law, Jesus Christ save us all

[TheBigGuy9]

Is Margaret Sanger your idol?

[Screenwriter]

@TheBigGuy9 Yes, Margaret Sanger IS one of my women to admire. And there is no future person who trumps the rights of someone who is already here. There are millions and billions of people already here who need to be taken care of. Take care of those here, create better, simpler birth control methods for women AND men.

Yes, abortion affects the UNborn. Not having abortion affects those already here who need and WANT help.

And my point again is, after the birth of these chidlren NO ONE IS THERE TO HELP the mother or child for the next 18 years. It's such bullshit. And IF sent to the foster system, MOST of these children don't get the love and care they need for successful lives. A tiny percetage of them are adopted.

No one LOVES ABORTION! But it should be available for the minority of women who need it. It is MORALIZATION over people who are NOT AFFECTED by abortion on people who are!

[TheBigGuy9]

You Racist showed your true colors.

[Diodoro]

To be fair, abortion is a service you get from someone else and saying you have a right to another's service means they are forced to serve you by law. They're in effect your slave

How can you compare slave labor

To

Maintaining your choice to not be injected with something.

If the abortion debate was giving mothers right to do it on themselves that would at least be a comparable argument to a degree, but it isn't. It's a disingenuous argument

[b5fan]

A child should never come into the world as PUNISHMENT for SEX, failure of birth bontrol or to SUPPLY SOMEONE ELSE WITH A CHILD.

So does this mean you support giving father's the right to abort? Because guess what... this is the reality for fathers. Making abortion illegal simply makes the sexes equal in this respect.

[Juxtapose]

@b5fan don't be stupid man, we aren't the ones carrying it inside our bodies.

[Archerer]

I truly wonder what men would feel about the subject if suddenly they got raped and pregnant somehow, as if they would keep the child.

[Juxtapose]

@Archerer Exactly! They have very low potential for empathy and it's no coincidence that most people in favor of restricting abortion are overwhelmingly men.

Gee, I wonder why that is?

[b5fan]

@Archerer look up mary kay letourneau

[VanillaSalt]

So let’s be sure we’re on the same page. Women shouldn’t have consequences for choices they make am I understanding you correctly?

[b5fan]

@Juxtapose Either Men and women have equal rights or they don't. I am for equal rights. The current standard gives Men no rights, which is why you see many men complain. Believe it or not Men do want to be fathers. If you don't want to be a parent... don't have unprotected sex or sex at all. That works for both sexes.

[Juxtapose]

@VanillaSalt It is silly to put the rights of a future person ahead of a person in the here and now.

Stop trying to punish women for having sex. Birth control is not perfect and will occasionally fail.

[Archerer]

@VanillaSalt Pretty fucked you think a child is a "consequence" someone should need to live with...

[BillyBalls]

@b5fan What the fuck?

So the punishment for the irresponsibility of two people (especially the female) should be death by abortion?

Are you stoned or just stoopid?

[BillyBalls]

@Archerer Rape?

In the case of rape the woman should go directly to the ER. She should take the "plan B pill". She should have a rape kit done so the rapist is prosecuted and never rapes again.

No abortion needed!!!

[VanillaSalt]

@archerer well see generally an outcome that is undesirable is referred to as a consequence. And if your getting an abortion then the outcomes somewhat undesirable.

@Juxtapose oh shut up. The odds of pregnancy if you use the pill and condoms well over the 99.99% mark. Let’s not act like a million abortions per month are due to faulty contraception. It’s dumbass people that refuse to wear a condom.

[Diodoro]

@Archerer how you feel doesn't dictate being correct here. If someone punches me in the face I feel like punching them back twice as hard.

If I was punched in the face by a 12 year old that thought it would be funny or a woman who got angry. Am I now justifying in punching either one as hard as I'm physically able?

Or does how I feel about it not necessarily dictate what I should do?

[Juxtapose]

@VanillaSalt lol what loser still uses a rubber when his girl is on the pill?

I'm not busting in latex for the rest of my days, fuck off tyrant.

[Archerer]

@Diodoro I didn’t say it’s how I feel, you guys can’t even read. Not even basic comprehension skills, it’s useless trying to talk sense into people who have no sense. Or no ability to process information. My question is if you got raped would you keep the child

[Diodoro]

@Archerer "I truly wonder what men would feel about the subject if suddenly they got raped "

You've been arguing too long my dude. Clearly I wasn't saying you as a person. I'm saying the idea of feeling a certain way determining what's right or what we should do as a society.

Even gave an example. You've now made personal attacks in reaction to me reasonably discussing the idea. Something to think about

[Archerer]

@Diodoro You've been arguing too long, you gotta remember all things said not just one. Juxtapose
4 h
@Archerer Exactly! They have very low potential for empathy and it's no coincidence that most people in favor of restricting abortion are overwhelmingly men.

Gee, I wonder why that is?

Didn't think your side was so easily offended, I didn't resort to pesonal attacks, I added them on, cause they are funny, and you idiots are beyond arguing with. You can't even answer a simple question. You get raped by Tekashi69, would you keep your man baby?

[Archerer]

@Diodoro The worst possible debaters are the ones who single out a tiny aspect of a massive argument and forget about everything else said about the topic at large. Then cry ad hominem attacks, yeah but I didn't just call you an idiot, I gave proper reasoning, if that hurts your feelings then address the reasoning, and if it doesn't hurt your feelings then why bother mentioning it?

[Diodoro]

@Archerer na you're just acting an asshole. Debate isn't shit flinging. I've talked about ideas and logical arguments. You've been acting like an asshole. Just that simple.

You have some growing up to do

[Archerer]

@Diodoro Right the guy with third world and barbaric ideas of a woman’s autonomy is on the moral high ground sheeeesh, it just isn’t fun without throwing some shade. I’m here for entertainment. You would force a child that was raped to carry to term, and Im the asshole, you just can’t find that kind of twisted entertainment anywhere else.

[Archerer]

If you actually just read and took in @screenwriters comment, you’d have stuck your tail between your legs and admitted you were wrong but as mentioned earlier your lack of comprehension skill renders you incapable of decent thought processes

[Diodoro]

@Archerer okay paper gangster

[Screenwriter]

@VanillaSalt Women do have consequences for choices they make. Just as men do. Or mostly don't because they don't carry babies. However, that's another thing.

And again, pregnancy, a consequence should be a choice a woman makes. Whether to continue with it, or not. But again, this is the old saw of PUNISHMENT. Pregnancy is your punishment for sex: for the failure of fallible birth control. This makes no sense. If your choice is to stay pregnant, that is fine. If it is not, that too should be fine. A person who is here and has to handle all aspects of this "consequence" gets to make the choice.

I think it is unfortunate that it IS this way. But I did not create biology. I've only been pregnant once and it was planned. But I was a stickler for taking care of birth control in general and lucky on the other hand. If I had faced an unwanted pregnancy, I would have chosen abortion. There is a time and place to have a child. A woman has to determine this in her life. No one outside of her life has any say in this matter because no one outside of her life understands her circumstances or is there to support her.

This is always and the only bottom line there is. Part of this is very sad. We all know it's a potential life. But the person in charge of her body has to make the final decision. Not you, religions, other men, people who want to adopt because they can't have children.

A woman's life is affected, as is her body. Neither your life, nor your body are involved in anyone else's pregnancy. So you should stay out of it.

[Screenwriter]

@007kingifrit To save yourself and your other children if you have any. No 15 year old should be having babies. Sure. They shouldn't be having unprotected sex either. But this is the shape of the world. This has always gone on. And invariably 15 year olds are seduced by much older men who are criminally irresponsible. Some LITERALLY have committed statutory rape by having sex with underage girls.

Again, not the main argument. The main argument is choice. Abortion is not preferred or ideal, but sometimes it is necessary. It needs to be available and safe.

[Screenwriter]

@b5fan Making abortioin illegal simply divests women of power over their own bodies. That makes them inherently UNEQUAL. Men NEVER have to consider birth control, except the use of condoms and there are men who refuse to use them, no matter what the woman wants. Again. Not my argument.

There is NO male birth control that is 95 to 99 percent effective. At best condoms are 70 to 80 percent effective used alone. They break, leak etc. Women who use under the skin birth control that lasts for years have nearly 100 percent efficacy. The daily pill is still very effective when used daily and properly. Condoms and spermicides together have about 90-95 percent efficacy.

But with schools and regions refusing to teach sex education and parents NOT talking to their children by middle school ABOUT sex AND its consequences, we have this sloppy system of people in DENIAL about what the CONSEQUENCES OF SEX ARE!!! CHILDREN you are not prepared to raise because you have no job, no education and no skills and are a kid! Children you are not prepared to raise because you have three other children you are struggling to raise on a minimum wage job.
Children you are not prepared to raise because you've HAD ENOUGH CHILDREN and WANT NO MORE.
Children you aren't prepared to have because you USED birth control and it failed. So the last ditch effort is abortion and it should be available.

Moralizing about the loss of a person who might have been is useless.

And say, let us take care of the children who are HERE and who aren't getting good educations and need help because they're in single family homes and their parent or parents are struggling and the kids aren't getting child support! Let's solve ALL THESE PROBLEMS before trying to force women to bring MORE children here who aren't wanted.

[b5fan]

@Screenwriter I am just remarking on the fact that Pro Choice is pro choice for her only.
If you want equality in this choice than either any parent may abort or no parent may abort.
The position that only the female parent may choose to abort is conferring a privilege on the female parent.

[VanillaSalt]

If women CHOOSE to keep the baby they don’t deserve the money a man has if she gets all the choice she gets all the consequences and yes it’s a consequence. Idc what you say there nothing you can say that changes my mind some hoe that gets ran through by 50 men then suddenly the condominium breaks… well shit I guess I’ll demand the man helps take care of it when I am the only one who chooses to keep it.

[Screenwriter]

@b5fan And that privilege has to be conferred on the person whose body has to suffer through pregnancy and childbirth and whose life is disrupted by both. No men share the child care or child rearing burden equally in our culture. And none share the pregnancy and childbirth issues at all.

There IS no equality on this issue and until children can be born in aquariums, there won't be.

[VanillaSalt]

Then by the same regard what is the “privilege” men get for being the protector and provider? And what’s the “privilege” for men in return for “women and children first”? Your only arguing in favor of women without a thought or care to men and the unfairness they suffer in everything child and family related. This is the usual argument from women to which I would agree with if men’s opinions mattered more. But men’s opinions and feelings mean nothing. Don’t tell me they are you just proved to every man here you don’t care because it’s your “privilege” as the one that suffers childbirth more.

I don’t agree with abortion but I can always see your point of view and arguably agree when she have majority day. However again women only argue “privilege” when it benefits or negatively impacts them. Always in favor of women never men. This isn’t tied to this specific issue but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either things have to always be fair or they are never fair you can’t cherry pick.

[b5fan]

@Screenwriter I agree that nine months of discomfort sucks. But so would having your child killed against your will. (This is something that I note you never mention) After a baby is born either parent can care for the child. In our society Mother's are never required to care for their babies against their will. There are infant safe haven laws. Father's are generally required to financially support their babies regardless of their will. If you think adoption is terrible... I can break it down to show that you generally have better outcomes... but it is easier just to ask an adopted child if they would rather be dead... I think we know the answer.

[Screenwriter]

@b5fan No one is forced to have an abortion. I am only advocating for safe ones in the event that that is the woman's choice. It should be an option. Granted, a last ditch option.

But the fact is there would be almost no need for abortion if we had universal sex education, universal availability of inexpensive birth control, and extremely simple to use and effective birth control. WE HAVE NONE OF THESE THINGS. And these are giant reasons we have problem pregnancies.

[b5fan]

@Screenwriter It is true that no one is forced to have an abortion. It is not true that no one has their child killed against their will. This happens to men all the time. There is no requirement to have the Father agree to an abortion.

[VanillaSalt]

The problem is choice. Should we be allowed to make such a choice? Do we even have such a choice? You claim it a right but I argue the ability to make said choice leads to bad choices. I supported safe legal and rare. This law was to protect women’s rights to safe and legal abortion but is meant to be a last resort. But look around at the rate of abortion, it’s not only a political issue but a financial one too incentivized by billions in tax payers dollars. It’s an industry. Tremendous change needs to happen if it’s to stay.

For instance. If women get to CHOOSE to keep a man’s unwanted child the man should not be financially responsible as a balance for men not getting a choice besides charity with which women have the option of too but opt out.

I also think profit 100% should not be an incentive or even an option. I don’t want to promote abortion is okay as just an option.

Ide also argue these women understand dick in pussy makes child. Their not ignorant just stupid. They think it won’t happen to them or if it does abortions an option… abortion shouldn’t be an option. It should be a “forced to make” decision that hurts the soul. Not as in women being forced to abort but I do not want to do this but it has to be done and I will never forget or recover from this. Abortion should be stigmatized to incentivize it. Available but not a good choice until all choices have fail and are exhausted.

Fact is women will always have an argument against it. It should be free and available. Its a right! What about rape and incest! Her body her choice! The father don’t do anything so he gets no say!

Women can justify everything because their arguments are always from a moral point of view. The problem is morality is the only way both sides can be simultaneously right and wrong at the exact same time. If the conversation can’t be solved with a moral argument then let’s argue logic.

[VanillaSalt]

At the very least you have to incentivize men to bother with children. It should not be an argument for men that getting involved with women could end in financial bankruptcy even at no fault of their own and sometimes at no fault of either party. I know it a man that owes 99k in child support. The ex would take him to court and they would lock him up for months until it was obvious he couldn’t pay. He was locked up for years. He couldn’t pay because he was disabled. When the judge asked how he looked fine the man pulled out his entire lower jaw… and the ex married a rich man and didn’t even need or want the money. It was pushed in spite.

I don’t trust women to make the right choice but I KNOW giving them the choice had only made it worse. I say try taking the choice away completely for a while and let’s see. What does that really mean for you? So what if you have to use condoms and the pill at the same time? So what if you have to be prepared for consequences? You seem smart enough to not be screwed by this change. The only really screwed women will be the dumb ones out there really unfortunate ones. If you won’t let me control your abortion then I’ll push for other things that will make you reconsider abortion or even sex altogether.

[Archerer]

@VanillaSalt Spoken like a true woman hating incel

[Juxtapose]

@Archerer Yeah that was gross lol.

[Screenwriter]

@b5fan I understand this is an issue. But the father does not have to be pregnant, nor sick while pregnant, nor deliver a baby, nor be out of work for months afterward to recover and have no one pay for them being out of work. A baby does not affect a man in the way it affects a woman's life. A man may be sorry he lost his potential offspring, but until the child is here, the man gives up nothing.

And in most cases AFTER the child is here, the man does not find child care for the child, does not reduce his work hours or take the child to the doctor, does not attend PTA meetings... it goes on and on.. The inequities of investment in child care by women is extraordinary. The inequality is glaring. Because of that, it's the woman's choice. Everything in life isn't fair and this is one of those things.

Whose REAL responsibility is it for birth control: the woman's. When it fails, who does it fall heaviest upon: the woman. That's just a cold, hard fact.

[BillyBalls]

@Screenwriter What you listed are all the reasons NOT to get pregnant.

As pro arbortion people like to point out a woman should be in 100% control of her body.

That is 100% correct.

Given that fact it is 100% up to a woman NOT to get pregnant in the first place.

Problem solved.

[VanillaSalt]

Awe common now your being unfair… I hate everybody not JUST women.

Your the one name calling over an opinion you don’t like yet I’m the issue? Perhaps you shouldn’t speak if you cannot contribute at least a logical argument.

[b5fan]

@Screenwriter A baby does not affect a man in the way it affects a woman's life.
This is a position of misandry and why we will never agree. A father is fully capable of fully taking care of a baby. I am suggesting that in the case where the father wants the child and the mother does not... He should get full custody and responsibility. You are justifying your position by pointing out that the man's traditional role is not one with direct care of the child. This is true. However it does not justify removing one's human right to be a parent. Nor does it mean that father's love their children less.

As far as sex education argument goes. It would make more sense if there were more teenage abortions (it's 12 percent). 60 percent of all abortions are performed between the ages of 20-29. I think women that age know how to use birth control. The sex education lesson I received was... 'don't sleep with anyone you don't want to be the mother/father of your child.' Obviously 1 in 4 women today haven't followed that advice.

Birth control is the responsibility of both people. Women get more options but the responsibility is shared.

And to the red herring of who pay's for the medical bills, time off work, etc... charge the father.

[LingyRolls]

It's the right thing to do.

[Pandupillu]

Even if the woman is raped and pregnant with the rapists child?

[LingyRolls]

So you want to build an argument on.01% of cases? I'm not even going to engage on that

[Archerer]

How do you feel about the Covid vaccine?

[Pandupillu]

Even if it's a small number, it is still worth considering, cause after all they are humans too. Or what if you happen to be one of that 0.1%? Would you still say the same thing?

[LingyRolls]

"They are human too".

Exactly

[VanillaSalt]

I like this woman. Some thing’s just shouldn’t be done you don’t need a reason to know it’s wrong.

[ZackBan]

I think this topic has been pulled on too hard from both sides.

You got the leftists from one side who want to commit fetual genocide, bang like rabits with no condom and never have to live with the consequences.

And the right winger who want to force a lifetime of parenthood even on those who were practically assaulted.

I believe there should be a middle way here.
Maybe something as simple as a specialist who studies a case and decides if it warrants an abortion or as a complex as having abortion be a something ordered by a judge just like execution where you just go to court make your case and if the judge and jury see things your way you abort if not you don't.

Now I know people generally hate involving the system in these matters but we are clearly unable to make the adult decisions on our own.

Still the fact remains that certain situations call for abortions while others don't, it mainly comes down to the parent (s) ability to give a child a decent life if you ask me.

[OlderAndWiser]

I oppose abortion on demand so I am happy with this ruling.

An ancient Greek philosopher (I don't remember which one) said that a society can be judged by the way it treats its animals. So the left thinks we should have no kill shelters for unwanted animals but it should open season/murder on demand for unwanted babies waiting to be born.

[BillyBalls]

Plus most of the pro baby killers are anti death penalty for the worst rapists and murders in society.

Can anyone explain that logic to me?

[OlderAndWiser]

@BillyBalls Their logic: unborn babies have no rights; murderers have rights.

[Wraith_Cemetery]

@BillyBalls The hypocrisy is astounding. A lot of women are anti-capital punishment so they have no problem saving a disgusting human being that committed horrific crimes but won't even blink an eye when it comes to the act of abortion. Hilarious...

[Juxtapose]

A zygote or fetus is not a human being with human rights.

[BillyBalls]

@Juxtapose Play all the word games you want.

A zygote is human life. Anyone who claims otherwise is a science denier.

At what point does a human life earn Human Rights?

[Juxtapose]

@BillyBalls At birth.

[BillyBalls]

@Juxtapose So why are there laws on the books that make it a crime if someone kills a pregnant woman? The person is guilty of causing the death of two people. Why is that?

Causing the death of the unborn other than through abortion is a criminal act in all states. If the unborn have " no human rights", why are there laws that protect them?

[Jay3344]

Aristotle also said that slavery was ok, besides that I’m not sure where this open season murder reference fits into a woman’s right choose whether to carry a baby to term or not.
Health complications, rape, and other specific conditions make abortion not only medically sound but ethically reasonable.
Besides using the political spectrum in your argument and characterizing it in this way detracts from any dialogue that each side could have to find common ground on the topic.

[Juxtapose]

@BillyBalls You would have to ask those lawmakers, I don't agree with them. There are many, many laws which I do not agree with.

[Rachel794]

OlderandWiser, that quote I agree 100 percent with. And the early feminists were pro life as well.

[Rachel794]

@BillyBalls Another piece of their “logic” I disagree with. Anyone who murders a pregnant woman is charged with double homicide. Yet she can take the life of her own baby.

[OlderAndWiser]

Thanks for MHO!

[tiajoka]

@Juxtapose so a woman at 9 months pregnant is still okay to have an abortion, in your mind?

[Juxtapose]

@tiajoka Yep, so long as they make it painless if possible.

[Archerer]

@tiajoka No one is “ok” with abortions you guys are fucking idiots. If you’d actually wanted less abortions you’d vote for legalized abortion because numbers actually go down in real life, not your stupid beliefs.

[tiajoka]

@Juxtapose abortion isn't painless. Go ahead and watch scientifically accurate videos about them. The baby's are writhing in pain.
But how is it possible for a baby born at 8 months to be a baby but one in the womb at 9 months isn't?

[tiajoka]

@Archerer why wouldn't you be okay with them?

[Juxtapose]

@tiajoka With science as is, it could absolutely be made painless. Doctors are skackin' on that.

And one has the thing IN her body, another OUTSIDE of her. You (should) have the right to purge yourself of parasitic organisms anytime you please.

[Juxtapose]

*slackin'

[tiajoka]

@Juxtapose why bother to make it painless then, if its just a parasite?
Would you say those who are a burden on society may also be considered a parasite by that same definition? They're feeding off the labor of others. You can argue that they are humans, but infants in the woman are also humans with DNA; so you must also argue against that.
Should we eliminate the old, disabled, and the lazy? Or should we only stop all forms of welfare and government assistance to let them die on the streets. Should we also get rid of laws that protect children that are born? Since they are parasites on their parents. Legalize that form of late term abortion.

[Archerer]

@tiajoka it’s a lot for a woman to go through, it’s hard on them. don’t care so much about the unborn though

[tiajoka]

@Archerer i don't understand why anyone who is prochoice wouldn't be okay with abortions. Its just a lump of cells isn't it?

[Archerer]

@tiajoka yes, it’s the woman I’m worried about

[tiajoka]

@Archerer why, getting an abortion is like getting a haircut.

[OlderAndWiser]

@Juxtapose Your profile says "Curious about me, are you? Why not message me and judge me for yourself?" With your statement that an unborn child is nothing more than a parasite, I know all that I need to know to judge you, and it is very unfavorable. That attitude is below my contempt and anyone who is that cold and heartless cannot be a part of my world.

[Archerer]

@tiajoka If they are just like haircuts why are you against them?

[tiajoka]

@Archerer I don't believe they are just like haircuts. I was playing devils advocate to try and understand why anyone whose for them would think they're hard on a woman who wants one. Why would they be hard on her? Could it perhaps be because somewhere deep down she knows she'd killing her own baby?

[tiajoka]

@Archerer if you know another reason, let me know ☺

[Archerer]

@tiajoka it’s not hard to understand, terminating a pregnancy can be very hard on a woman. You know what it’s not hard on? A fetus. I feel for the woman. And she should have safe and private access to abortions, not people (ironically) giving death threats, telling young girls they are whores and going to hell and protesting outside medical centres, that only turns an unfortunate situation worse. If you wanted less abortions you vote for legal abortion because that’s how you reduce the number.

[tiajoka]

@Archerer but why would it be hard on a woman?

[Archerer]

@tiajoka because she has a working memory, and an experiential past, problem solving skills, and relationships, all things that a fetus does not possess, and things that are vital to make something hard on someone, hence it not being hard on a fetus but it being hard on a woman.

[tiajoka]

@Archerer but why would the abortion be hard on her? Its just a clump of cells. If she was removing a melanoma, she wouldn't have a hard time with that.

[Archerer]

@tiajoka The procedure is painful, it’s embarrassing, it’s intrusive, it’s been conditioned to make women feel shameful and disgusting. That can all be very hard on a woman. We need to support them not tell shame” to them. But sometimes too, losing something can be very hard, even if that thing is just a lump of cells.

[Archerer]

@OlderAndWiser Are you a vegetarian? Because if you aren’t, I hate to inform you on the state of how society treats its animals…

[Asker]

@Archerer

Well, if you look at the US, we do have laws against animal cruelty.

Many instances, cruelty to animals is criminal.

Also, look at the laws on how animals are to be raised and held when it comes to cows, chickens, pigs, etc.

We kill these animals, but look at how we kill them. There’s all sorts of standards around animal slaughter that involves no suffering and confirmation that animal cannot feel anything.

There’s pages upon pages of this stuff.

We also do not kill them just to kill them. We kill them to feed the millions upon millions of people in this country alone.

This is not to say the US is perfect when it comes to animals.

But we have improved and continue to improve.

[TheBigGuy9]

It’s not surprising 3 guys give you a thumbs down. White men liberals are and have always been the worst. Kkk leaders. Still the same they were before civil rights. No Republican switched on Racism. If not for the media, more people would see the truth.

[Archerer]

@TheBigGuy9 I wonder if your daughter got raped by a black man if you’d say she should keep the baby

[tiajoka]

@Archerer sounds kinda racist that you would say that.
Don't understand how killing a baby would make it better. And abortions done with minors is how so many incestuous peices of trash get away with their crimes. As well as the trauma of that little girl not understanding what an abortion entails, and having to grow up with that. Regardless of what you believe, carrying the baby to term would not be as traumatic as if the abortion made her infertile or she came to the realization that abortion is murder (even if you don't believe that, if she does; that will scar her for life)
I was raped my first time having sex, and I knew even before that happened that I'd carry my baby regardless of circumstances. I still have that mentality. Two of my sisters are also rape babies, as are a large percent of prolife advocates. They are happy to be alive. Happy their mothers chose life.
And if you only use extreme circumstances like rape and incest to back up your claims, you have to wonder how strong your argument really is. You also have to stick with it. Do you only believe it is okay to have an abortion in those circumstances? If not, then why bring it up? And if so, then what makes that baby's life more worthless than one that isn't made from rape?

[Archerer]

@tiajoka Its funny that you neglected my answers to you because you know they were right but clung onto a response I had for someone else. You are blinded. I didn’t say rap babies deserve to be aborted, I think it should be the mother’s choice. My answer was to @thebigguy9 who I don’t believe for a second would allow his daughter to keep such a baby. I’m pointing out HIS hypocrisy, not mine. I believe it should be the woman’s choice, rape or no rape. And I’m sure your happy to be alive, but that’s one of the worst arguments because every single sperm would also have been happy to be alive.

[tiajoka]

@Archerer bruh you really gonna say sperm is the same as a conceived baby? I'm muting this conversation cuz you actually retarded and know nothing of science. An egg and sperm alone ain't shit. ain't got individual DNA ain't got a heartbeat ain't got nothing. Take a high-school bio class and get back to me thanks 😂😂😭

[Archerer]

@tiajoka I'm of the opinion that a conceived egg ain't shit either

[Archerer]

@tiajoka Typical of you to ignore everything else I say and just focus on one small point to try and Aha me, but you fail miserably

[OlderAndWiser]

@Archerer "I hate to inform you on the state of how society treats its animals…" If you hate to inform me, then why do you raise the subject? That seems rather self-contradictory.

[Archerer]

Really? You delete my comment? Ok... Well the reason is because I know showing you the truth of how we treat our animals (Torture their entire lives then end in murder), essentially a holocaust for animals, you'd have to rethink your position, but somehow I doubt you are capable of that

[OlderAndWiser]

@Archerer If you hate to inform me, then why do you raise the subject? That seems rather self-contradictory.

You did not answer the question but sent on the attack: best defense is a good offense?

[tatianamay]

Sex education should be well-taught in schools, so that teenage and potential, unwanted pregnancies can be prevented. It does take two to tango, but who asks you not to wear a condom, take birth control pill, or better yet, use both so that any potential pregnancy can be prevented easily? A person's freedom of choice, extends only until it does not take away another's. A zygote is still a life. Life starts when the fetus forms in the mother's womb. Actions have consequences. People should learn to take accountability. If you very badly do not want a kid, then go on birth control AND use a condom. Unnecessary, but safe. Funny how when a pregnant woman is killed, its charged as double homicide, but its legal to abort a baby and some people can claim that its not murder.

However, a mother's mental state during pregnancy is very important. If the mother starts resenting the baby and is not happy when she's pregnant, the baby's health would be affected. What if the mother starts abusing or resenting the kid? Many many children are not getting adopted, and are usually put in foster care system. Children are not treated well. Not to mention, some teens resort to drugs and criminal activities and they could also fall into heavy depression. I'm honestly on the fence with this one. Abortion is not right, but at the same time, due to enormous amount of evil in this society exhibited by some parents who did not want kids, yet get pregnant and keep the baby, its also needed. And oh, the foster care system is not good either. If the school and parents concentrated more on educating teenagers on sex, this would not be much needed. Most parents shy away from explaining all this, and its not right.

[VanillaSalt]

So many women are against this. Thank you for being better.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Thanks, but the thing is, abortion is wrong, but also necessary. Some parents abuse their kids.. that's not right, and the kids grow up to be very depressed. As I said, I'm not saying that abortion is right, but its needed because of some really evil people who are just gonna be shit parents. I think schools and parents should concentrate on the root cause-sex education, rather than the consequence- a baby. If sex education is taught well, at least then, people will not be stupid and abortion will not be much needed

[VanillaSalt]

30 yr old women understand put his uncovered dock in the hole and out comes a baby.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Well, yes, but contraceptive methods are not always effective. I say, use both a condom and go on birth control. That way, its safer, right? There's no safe sex, only safer sex

[SuperKevHanma]

Your 16 you don’t know what your talking about 🙄

[tatianamay]

@SuperKevHanma And you are a 22 year old troll 🤡

[SuperKevHanma]

Just because you don’t like what I’m saying doesn’t make me a troll

[tatianamay]

@SuperKevHanma Uh dude, i know you lmao. You make new accounts and troll people, the only difference is, this time you're actually civil

[VanillaSalt]

Well he’s not wrong. You have about the same chance of becoming pregnant with just 1 BC as dying to covid.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt I'm not saying that he was wrong, but he is a troll who has trolled me before, I know this guy. He makes different accounts just to troll people.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt And wait, no, he did not say that, he said: "you're 16 you dont know what you're talking about"

umm no? Age does not have anything to do with having opinions.

[VanillaSalt]

You ARE 16 and you really DONT know what your talking about. As for troll… trolls live under bridges not in QnA forums everyone knows that. Not like he’s contributing to this conversation lol.

See here’s what you don’t know. The boys want sex and the girls want the boys attention. It’s not about sex Ed… it’s about taking accountability. It’s about suffering consequences for bad choices. Tell me tat. You have 2 tests both during something you wanna do. If one test isn’t for a grade without a benefit or consequences for failing and the other is for a grade and comes with benefits and consequences which test would you be most likely to skip? It seems one off but these boys and girls have a dozen of these test opportunities every day. It’s only the consequences that keep us in line. So while I support better sex Ed in schools I demand accountability. Turn off the abortion option and see if the number of pregnancies goes down. People cry ladies will go back alleys for abortion… well how important is it for ya? If your willing to risk your life for it I will respect your decision.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Uh first off, I'd like to point out the fact that you AGREED with me. Second of all, I do know that abortions have serious side effects, I'm not dumb, I'm going to med school next year, and my parents are doctors. So why did you say: "So many women are against this. Thank you for being better." When you think I don't know any better? Learn to respect other's opinions. Don't get aggressive with me. If only you had read my opinion fully and clearly, you'd have understood that I used the line: "Actions have consequences. People should learn to take accountability." I know damn well about accountability and I own up my shit.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt And I'd also like to point out that I'd never abort my baby even if I did get pregnant, because I knew the risks of having sex, and yet I had careless sex anyway. Actions have consequences. I made the bed, and now I've gotta lie in it. That is what my parents taught me- to own up to my mistakes and take accountability for my actions. Just because I'm young doesn't mean that I don't know anything. Have you even seen the teenagers these days? And just because someone is old, doesn't mean that they're wise either. A person can be 60 and still act like an immature kid. I'd advise you to learn to stop dismissing people just because of their age. Ignorance is not bliss.

[VanillaSalt]

I was lazy with my response. I only agreed with part of it sorry. I liked how you held the women accountable for their decision to have sex and showed the gravity of their situation. That alone is worthy of praise.

Besides this. You don’t really know. Not if your 16 anyway. As I get older I come to understand everything I “know” is wrong. With age comes new insight and at your age you barely have it registered which hole it goes in. There’s women your age that think anal sex is safe and if you stand up you can’t get pregnant…

I respect your opinion. And think your wrong. But if you feel I’m being rude then it either applies to you and struck a nerve or your misreading it.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Anal sex is NOT safe! There are chances that the woman can pregnant if she doesn't use a condom when she's having anal sex. Also, the pull-out method is NOT advisable

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt What do you think I'm wrong about? Feel free to enlighten me. I'd be very much happy to learn. No sarcasm.

[VanillaSalt]

Well there’s more to consider then babies as well like stds and such. But in regards to the pullout method I’ve used it successfully for years lmao.

But If I did fuck up ide take that responsibility. Men uniquely are forced to take responsibility regardless the decisions made. The father can only sit helplessly and watch as the mother end his baby without him having a say or keep the baby also without him having a say but forcing him to pay child support.

We need to do away with abortion and force the men to be involved and the women to face the music. You were big enough to make the baby but now your not big enough to take care of what comes out?

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Sorry for being rude, I misinterpreted your opinion. But it'd be amazing if you could tell me where you disagree with me. :) I'd love to hear your views.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Right!!! Exactly! But using a condom is safer though. I'm allowed to date only when I turn 21, and just for being safe, I'd use both condom and go on the birth control pill. Better safe than sorry

[VanillaSalt]

That’s called being responsible and I wish every women were like you. Promiscuity ruins everything men and women hold important and opens us all to suffering and dying alone or picking someone that just don’t care.

As for what I disagree with the major part is the sex Ed. I agree with more sexual Ed but I think the bigger issue is accountability. Consequences is a nasty word nobody likes and holding anyone especially women accountable is unacceptable.

The divide between the sexes grows every day due to promiscuity and the failing nuclear family. It wasn’t right when men were promiscuous and it sure as hell ain’t right when women do it. Abortions, stds, rape, abuse, cheating, loneliness, unhappiness… this is all promiscuity brings. And abortion enables this.

I supported safe, legal, rare but rare disappeared… now I say just say no. Sometimes we have to step up and be a dick to teach responsibility.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt True, but what if the condom breaks? That is the only thing I'm apprehensive about. But I do agree with accountability.
Sex-ed is very important though. Parents should never shy away from explaining about sex to their children.

[VanillaSalt]

I’m also bothered by your comment of “… go on birth control and use a condom…” but for a different reason. Both of them have a 98% effectiveness and with plan B the odds of being pregnant if you take ANY precautions is so low I would consider it a calling from god to have a kid under them circumstances. My ex got preggo with condom, pill, and an insert lmao poor girl.

The issue is abortions not used as a last resort it’s used as a contraception. I’ve considered it a possible fix to require sterilization with abortions under the right circumstances -.-

[VanillaSalt]

Agree. I’m a nudist at home. When I had my own place in the country I even walked my property nude. It makes you more comfortable with your body and I think it’s how I wanna raise any kids I might have one day. The idea of my kids not knowing sex is not possible lol.

Also I recommend you use a female condom. They feel better and their so god damn unbreakable. Far far more effective then the male ones.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Oh damn! I did not know that. Thanks for educating me on that. I appreciate it.

I'm against abortion, and yes, it should NEVER be used as a contraceptive method. But honestly, I'm on the fence with this one. I, for one, would NEVER abort my baby even if I do get pregnant, because I knew the risks, and yet, I had sex. I will take accountability for my actions, because it goes against my personal beliefs (and no, its not because of religion, I'm agnostic. I think killing a life is murder, because it is) I am appalled by the number of people killing their kid without batting an eyelash because they had careless sex. People can do whatever they want though, everyone gets offended over everything these days and I do not want any child to suffer (some parents keep their child and abuse them, thats wrong) nor do I want to get into an argument with anyone. You make some really good points and I totally agree with you! :)

[VanillaSalt]

The issue is people arnt… good enough to make their own choices. I don’t believe people are inherently good unless they have a strong STRONG moral upbringing much like you. These people can be trusted to make their own decisions. But overall societies filled with dumbasses that need to be… god do I wanna say exterminated but that’s such a horrible thing. The fact is people need guidance unless their raised right. Most are not raised right. And Ide rather some poor rape victim suffer an unwanted child and receive thousands in my taxes every month to raise said child right then trust the masses to make the right choice.

[VanillaSalt]

Very good introduction to condoms of all kinds.

https://youtu.be/9Cq3Mo5eKos

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt Thanks! I'll watch the video later. I have an exam tomorrow haha, so gotta revise. I'm not sure on the abortion issue though, as I said, people can do whatever they want, but I think abortion is wrong and people should take accountability for their actions. It'd be nice if people were humans for once, stepped back for a minute and think of the baby as a human being. The world would be a much better place.

[VanillaSalt]

I care about animals and children suffering. But average people I just ignore now. Things are getting worse not better. But your quest for your age. Might I recommend you make a home in a”red” state for when shit hits the fan. Having people like you would be of huge benefit when the country collapses.

[tatianamay]

@VanillaSalt lol, I'm a centrist. On some topics I have liberal views, and in some I have conservative views. It varies on the subject. I could never live in a red state lol, or a blue state. I don't even want to move to America (im not an American) Americans are just really really immersed in politics and base all their decisions off of politics. I find it quite hilarious, really.

I think it would be a lot better if senators and mayors were given a good amount of powers instead of acting like puppets of the President. Nobody would even care who the President is, if the mayors or the political representatives of each state was given a good amount of power. But hey, I'm not really an American, so lol, I dont know haha

[VanillaSalt]

Ok so first off. To be clear it’s only in the last few years that things got political as all hell. And it needs to be right now. We have an insane left that’s trying to break everything we hold important. The nazis were less insane early on… just saying they’ve burned down cities here over a druggy that abused a pregnant woman and was using fake money while being high while resisting arrest and refused to give the accused cop a lawyer and fair trial…conservatives don’t like being political that’s why our left got so powerful and dangerous…

Also the way it’s supposed to be that the state takes over governing daily life and law while the federal government’s authority tends towards foreign defense and the guarantee of rights.

[Screenwriter]

@VanillaSalt Force the men to "be invovled" ... How are you going to foce that? Teach 15 year olds to use birth control properly would be a better outcome. But at age 15, few THINK before acting. That is the human condition. It's whent he consequence appears that people act. OMG, I have an STD! (ah, the poet in me appears!) OMG, I'm pregnant! We only had sex once! OMG, how did it happen?

Even WITHOUT abortion, the US has STELLAR pregnancy rates among developed countries because of puritanical issues toward sex, sex eduction, accessibility to birth control. Ignorance is not bliss. It leads to accidental pregnancies and no 15 year olds should be having sex, but because few parents DISCUSS this with their children, they take ridiculous risks because they're IGNORANT!!! WIthout proper information people make poor choices.

Knowledge is POWER. I had sex education in Catholic schools starting in 5th grade. It was simple, straightforward and fueled an interest in me ABOUT sex. What was it about? Why did people do it? Hiding such information leads to children having sex before they're actually ready to BE RESPONSIBLE about having sex. This is why our pregnancy rates are so high.

In countries like Sweden, where there IS sex education and youths can access birth control OTHER than condoms withOUT parental permission and can get tested for STDs and BE RESPONSIBLE for their bodies and ultimately, their lives, pregnancy rates are low. There are discussions of what babies do to your lives when you're 15. You need to drop out of school, get a job to support your kid and yourself... and what the hell can you do at 15? Sponge off your parents? Live at home until you're 25 and can move out with your 10 year old kid? Ugh..

[Screenwriter]

Agreed Tatania.

[VanillaSalt]

Back when women were shamed for promiscuity sex in the early years was less common and it was expected for a man to own up and be a man.

[tatianamay]

@Screenwriter Thanks! As I said, I am on the fence. I would NEVER kill my own baby, because growing up, I've seen many parents who were dying to get pregnant. Also, it goes against my personal beliefs and I could never kill my own baby. I could never live with myself if I do. HOWEVER, people can do whatever they want, as we do not know their circumstances. Many children are getting abused by their own parents. Many teenage parents are now drug junkies, or resent their own kid and hence the baby suffers throughout his/her life. The child suffers with depression and the trauma these children go through is soul-crushing and could not be put into words. The adoption centers are not better either. The foster care system SUCKS. My father is a doctor and I asked him why he is pro-choice, he gave me the reasons I've mentioned in the second paragraph of my original opinion but yep, I agree with the accountability part, but would these children and parents really be happy? I'd rather have a mother who loves me than a mother who resents me for the rest of her life.

[tatianamay]

@Screenwriter And THANK YOU! someone who agrees with me!! Ignorance is not bliss!! sex education should be well-taught in all middle schools and high schools and parents should not shy away from explaining about sex ed to kids. Some people disagree with me though. If only the schools and parents stress on the importance of sex education abortion would not be much needed. Children would know the gravity of the situation, and that would instill the fear that they SHOULD use contraceptive methods

[tatianamay]

@Screenwriter But I do not agree with the fact that some people (not you) 'encourage' abortions. Abortion should NOT be encouraged and it should NOT be used as a form of birth control. Rather, sex-education should be taught in schools and the importance of contraceptive methods should be stressed upon. If it is followed, abortion would not even be much needed. Condoms are 98%effective and birth controls are 99% effective. If people used any one of these correctly, abortion would not even be needed much.

[Screenwriter]

I think this is a stretch. I don't know of ANYONE, choice advocate or not, who'd encourage MAJOR SURGERY, where there is a risk to YOUR FUTURE FERTILITY!

Condoms are NOT 99 percent effective. They are, used alone, at BEST 70 to 80 percent effective. When used WITH a spermicide of some kind, that leaps to about 90 to 95 percent effective. HOWEVER, how well this combination is used ALSO affects this outcome. You have to use a NEW condom every time, you have to REAPPLY the spermicide EVERY TIME and WAIT 5 to 10 minutes for it to be effective! You have to put on the condom PROPERLY. After sex you have to remove the penis THEN the condom immediately or their could be SPILLAGE!

I was a Planned Parenthood sex education lecturer who went around to high schools that invited us in the 1990s. These kids laughed through my lectures, which featured me putting a condom on a banana, but i KNOW THEY LEARNED SOMETHING NEW BECAUSE NO ONE had spoken about what they needed to do to protect themselves from pregnancy and STDs.

I spoke to my SON about his when he was 10 and 11 years old because I didn't want to accidentally become a grandmother when he was in high school. I told him if he ever NEEDED condoms and could not afford them to come to me. He still consults me about getting tested for this or that. I tell him where to go and if he needs help to ask. He's 26 now and careful for the most part.

But that's because I opened that window 16 years ago. Most parents don't even want to THINK about their kids having sex. It's absurd. It's part of life, it has risks and consequences and it's, as my dad the Scout Master always stressed, best to BE PREPARED!

But THE RELIGIOUS and CONSERVATIVES are NOT ON THIS BUS. THey believe don't do it will stop people from having sex. It never has, and it never will!

[Screenwriter]

@VanillaSalt Do you have kids Vanilla? HOw many and what ages?

[Screenwriter]

@VanillaSalt Unfortunately, that poor rape victim who has that unwanted child of a rapist is NOT supported by society to raise that child right or to raise that child in any supportive manner. Youcertainly know this.

[VanillaSalt]

You women are unilaterally supported by society regardless the decisions and or mistakes you make where as men pay for our decisions. And don’t use rape victims as your fucking argue point. Using an outlier is irrelevant and it’s an insult to rape victims using their suffering as your policy push… I know a rape victim and she raise 2 kids from 2 separate rapes. She got assistance and was smart enough to find a man to also assist and he did. Don’t you dare use her hardship to push your politics.

[tatianamay]

@Screenwriter Condoms are 99% effective IF used perfectly. Also, I see many number of people on G@G 'encouraging' abortions. I'm well-aware that abortion is a major surgical procedure with major side effects like sepsis, uterus infection etc. One of the side effects is also infertility. In very rare cases, some women die while the procedure goes on. I did not mean in real life, I meant on G@G where there are many stupid morons. I, personally, have come across those morons, and you cannot deny that.

[tatianamay]

@Screenwriter Also, I was not talking about you at all. Some parents NEVER give 'the talk' to their kids. I can name many of them. In my country, sex is seen as a taboo, and even in my school, sex education was given like once when I was in 8th grade. I learnt everything by myself. My parents never gave me 'the talk' because they fail to realize that sex is a natural part of life and I am gonna do that when I grow up. And yes, nobody really uses condoms perfectly, so condoms are at best 85% effective and if used alone, nearly 15 out of 100 people get pregnant every year. I completely agree with you. However, abortion 'being encouraged' is NOT bit of a stretch. I have seen it happening on G@G, but not in real life. However, G@G also has some morons, so that's understandable. I mean, this is the internet, what else can we expect? I completely agree with you though. :)

[VanillaSalt]

I’ve seen it encouraged. Can’t you call it encouragement when a woman brags about 2 abortions and says she’s scheduling her 3rd then cheering like it’s a college frat party? Is it not encouraging when Oprah says “you get an abortion, and you get an abortion. Abortions for everyone!”? All you gotta do it consider all the crazies in tv promoting pro-choice…

[Screenwriter]

@VanillaSalt This has little to do with politics and more to do with society and religion.

The person you know who raised two children that were the result of two rapes from unknown men? This is very sad. I guess on some level she wanted to be a parent and she rallied and got all the support she could find. And luckily she found a partner who also was supportive. She is a minority of a minority.

But most women who end up pregnant and have their children don't get support of any kind and struggle to raise their children if they have basic educations and few skills.

[VanillaSalt]

Again you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you fail to get support and to raise your kids it’s your fault for not being better period.

Sometimes people fail. If they didn’t do their best then failure is their fault. And they do their best and still fail. If you fail too survive in a frozen tundra but you did your best… you still failed and it cost you your life… the deer you failed to kill because your inept as a hunter could have made you last another week. The man you choose not to marry because he was mean could've kept you warm but now you froze to death alone rather than deal with his nasty words. You could've gotten it before the storm and relied on the other people evacuating but you were stubborn now your homes floating away with you in it.

Failure whether you do your best or not is on you.

Let me be clear. She was raped by men she trusted both times. She lived with her poor father in terrible conditions. She settled hard for the guys she dated and eventually got lucky. This new guy wasn’t her type but he’s been good to her and their comfortable and happy bow and the kids are safe. She had to dig deep into the system but she got WIC and food stamps and went to college and worked full time while supporting 2 kids with a poor and disabled father as her only support.

Your right about her being a a minority of a minority though. She understands consequences and responsibility. She knows she got raped BECAUSE she trusted the wrong men. She learned to be careful who you trust.

[Screenwriter]

@VanillaSalt WOmen were shamed and men owned up? There was never such a time, except for the shaming of women part. Men RAN OFF. When this country was young it was easy to exit a tough situation and GO WEST YOUNG MAN. Only in religiously strict communities did what you tout happen. And that's where the "make your bed you lie in it" pronouncements come from.

This is mostly NOT the best choice in most cases. If Plan B and other contraceptives have failed, there should be the option to abort. I don't like it. It's a harsh choice, but if faced with an unwanted pregnancy, I would've done it in a second. I would've regretted it as a loss, but would not have regretted it for my life situation.

[tatianamay]

Honestly, I see people who are fucked up, because their parents decided to keep em, and resented/abused them. Some people in this world are very evil. I, personally, know a few people who are heavily into depression because of their parents' shit parenting. Some people are not cut out for parenting, they're shit parents. The foster care system sucks big time. Some kids run away and turn to drugs and alcohol. Im not saying that everyone will turn out to be the same, but the mental trauma can become too much to handle. Those people who turn out to be good adults even if their parents were shit turned out to be fine DESPITE the trauma. Some work on themselves, while others just get high and turn to drugs. This is the HARSH truth.

[DataOrganizer27]

I agree with it honestly... I met someone who had an abortion at 5.5 months where I live because she couldn't make up her mind and was on and off heroin. Honestly, the baby would have come out with issues or died in the womb or something.. but there are loving people are there who, vetted carefully enough, would give the child and nurturing and loving home.

My dad was almost aborted but was instead given up for adoption to abusive parents and came out a complete godsend for me later in my life.

I once met a woman who was on her FIFTH abortion in four years! Lackadaisical laws give shitty people an inch and they take a mile. Sad fact, but fact nonetheless. It isn't YOU'RE body after a point.

It encourages people, especially young people, to be safer and more careful and think things through. It makes women be more aware of their bodies to catch things earlier if that truly isn't what they want. As long as they keep up on their adoption policies and practices, this is good to me.

I believe in abortions for rape and incest and all that. But it isn't birth control. We have dozens of options for that.

[ChrisMaster69]

Pleased the UK is not as messed up as this. It’s fairly much left to medical side of things.

Out of curiosity is everyone going to be paying extra taxes to cover potential doubling or at least a large increase in Foster care etc?

There are nearly 50,000 kids in Foster care in Texas.

The usual abortion rate in Texas is 55,000

worst case that’s 55,000 new foster care homes.

let’s be a bit lower and say 20,000 homes for what will also include kids with major medical conditions.

oh yeah, that’s abortions 55,000 per year, the care home is a snap shot for this year 0-17.

Of course those Foster parents must get a grant I guess.

Does that come of of National government funds or state?

[libsaretards]

I'm happy to see it reinstated. People get so caught up in what the mother wants, but who is the voice for the innocent baby in the woman's belly who cannot fight or even speak for itself? The choice to have the baby ended with the choice to have sex or not. Many people love to counter with the "what if it was rape?" or "what if the birth will kill the mother?". To those my reply is this: Yes, both events suck. Life is not fair. Why punish something that has not had a chance to live yet over someone else's cruelty just to make you feel better? People die all the time, but at least the mother had a chance to live life. There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse to hurt a baby. Children are the future of the human race while the adults are its past/present. If we allow babies to be murdered just to please women, the entire human race would go extinct.

[Danny_dan92]

What I find hilarious is that the same people that get so mad about these abortion laws being put in place. Are the same people that condone the government to force people to get the vaccine.


This is only happening because like Joe Rogan said.


“Once you give a government power, they will never relinquish it and find new ways to use it”

[MCheetah]

I am pro-choice, and I don't know all the details on this (like if it's a ban on all abortions, only certain trimesters, or what), so I can't really say much here. I'd try to look for more info online, but every website is so biased and slimy, I can't find any neutral assessment of the matter and what details the bill provides. It's messed up how all information is now politicized and has to have a certain opinion or bias to it, now.

[marish01]

Why are you pro choice?

[MCheetah]

@marish01
Because the world is overpopulated as it is and I think it's worst to have an unwanted, unloved kid come into the world than to spare him a lifetime of pain, misery, and a higher chance of prison time or suicide. It does no purpose to bring unwanted, unloved children into the world.

[MCheetah]

*worse

[marish01]

What should be done to unwanted BORN children? Kill them too?
What about unloved adults? Do they deserve to live more than unwanted kids?

[marish01]

Let's kill the half of the people of this world so it won't be overpopulated.

[BillyBalls]

Hitler had a solution for people who did not live up to his standards.

[MCheetah]

@marish01
The main point of contention between pro-choice and pro-life people is whether you can "kill"something that isn't born yet. The main annoying thing with adamantly pro-life people is insisting it's "baby murder" to terminate a six week old fetus. I bought up the point before that it's usually hypocritical thinking because these same people will masturbate, killing sperm every time they do it, or refuse to live their lives as vegans. Which I find to be hypothetical.

Call me a "baby-killer" if you'd want for thinking a slow painful death or adding more serial killers to the world is a good idea. I frankly don't give a sh*t though because I don't walk around with fake morality and self-righteousness. Nor am I the type who's going to raise someone else's kid because she wants to trick someone into an easy payday.

[MCheetah]

*which I find to be hypocritical

Damn autocorrect

[MCheetah]

@marish01
And for the record, I'm totally for the death penalty. This bullsh*t "life is sacred" garbage is so fake. And I don't buy people who imply the same thing, unless their vegans. So spare me the self-righteousness sh*t; you probably enjoy bacon and kill spiders all the same.

[Silas_314]

Life IS sacred though, and no, I don't kill spiders - I escort them to the border, and tell them to apply for residency through the proper channels.

[Cherry234]

@mcheetah You make a good point. All of these people who are pro-choice aren't vegan. They think killing babies is wrong but they don't bat an eye at animals being slaughtered so they can eat their flesh

[User1224567]

Science worshipping Democrats say eukaryotic cells are life in space but life in the womb isn’t unless it’s birthed.

Yet proclaim pro choice and my body my choice yet force mandates such as masks and vaccinations.

They profess science yet dismiss and smear any other hypothesis

[zagor]

Pregnancy isn't an airborne disease that infects others. Quit whining about mask and vaccination requirements, or stay home where you can't infect anyone. Funny how many abortion opponents are incapable of getting pregnant.

[User1224567]

@zagor I work around nearly a hundred people over the last couple of years I haven’t been ill, yet. People have been. I’ve got something else going on. You need to awaken my Son.

[Cherry234]

I don't like this law. I'm not in favor of abortions and I don't agree with them but women should have the right to choose what to do with their bodies. It should be no one else's business whether they decide to abort their children. There's already enough people in this world. We don't need anymore unwanted born babies. Some of you may feel the urge to call me a "baby killer" but this is my opinion

[Cherry234]

Also, if people are so against abortion then birth control and Plan B should be free to discourage more abortions

[Floppy2112]

Good! Go Texas... It's about time this madness stops. If it wasn't the willful killing of another human being, I would be all for abortion. Except, your killing your child. Killing is killing. It's got to stop.
There are 30 something ways to avoid getting pregnant. And even if you miss all of those, you have the 'Plan B' treatment. If you miss all of that, then sorry, you have to take responsibility for your actions. Maybe quit spreading your damn legs so much and it won't be a problem.

[Andres77]

The second you find out your pregnant or the second you think you might be pregnant you should find out THAT DAY!
If you don't want the baby, well it's legal to murder it,🤢, fine.🤔
But if it takes you weeks and months to figure out if you're ready?🤨

[Juxtapose]

Let's be real guys, would you want ANYBODY voting on what you can or cannot do with your body?

If one of you got jammed in my body for nine months and getting you out would kill you but free me of permanent scarring, you bet your ass I would kill you and get you out of my body.

[Archerer]

Yeah holy shit id love to see what laws men would create if it was them getting pregnant, the fucking hypocrisy!

[b5fan]

Umm there is this little thing called the draft and registering for it... the Army has a little to say on what you can do with your body.

[Juxtapose]

@b5fan the draft is blatantly unconstitutional. It is involuntary servitude.

[b5fan]

I assure you the draft is constitutional.

[Juxtapose]

@b5fan You & all these other bootlickers can assure me all you want but involuntary servitude is involuntary servitude, I can read.

[BCRanger10]

Very good news. I'm glad to see civil leaders defend human life, human dignity, and the natural law.

[FilmGuy93]

I hate the rule, but it IS technically constitutional. Roe v. Wade is actually an extremely flimsy precedent; it just kind of declares that women have a right to get an abortion.

[cth96190]

Abortion is murder of the most heinous type.
When a woman chooses to murder her own child in the womb, she tells me everything that I need to know about her.

[Iknowbestgirls]

Texas is fucked thinking they have a right to control people's bodies on the grounds of bullshit religious beliefs. Those people are anti abortion want the baby to be born but don't care if it is properly nurtured into a loving home or properly raised and don't want to pay taxes for government programs that would ensure those unwanted babies are taken care of. Texas is completly ass hat backwards and hypocritical.

[BillyBalls]

I say will abort all those unviable people on welfare.

If they can't fend for themselves they don't have the right to live.

[Cherry234]

@iknowbestgirls I agree. The state is taking things way too far. I'm glad I don't live there. I think it should be a basic human right for a woman to abort her baby. These people who support this anti-abortion law would go crazy if a law was passed that takes away their first amendment rights

[BillyBalls]

@Cherry234 Should I abort my grandmother in the nursing home?

She is a leech on society.

[Iknowbestgirls]

@BillyBalls that's pretty ignorant and fucked up. You can abort a fully grown fully lived person.

Also I am pretty pissed you said shit like that, especially since I just lost my grandmother and she is the person that raised me! So fuck you for saying that about your grandmother!

[Cherry234]

@iknowbestgirls There are a lot of idiotic people on this site

[KrakenAttackin]

I especially love thinking about liberals losing their minds right now.

[zagor]

Or anyone who cares about personal freedom, apparently.

[KrakenAttackin]

@zagor Liberals could not care less about personal freedoms.

[Silas_314]

That's assuming they even had a mind to lose in the first place.

[Smashingdoozy]

6 weeks isn't even a heartbeat 🤷🏻‍♀️ plus this will never be enforced.

[TheBigGuy9]

My body my choice? Except when it comes to the vaccine, right?

[BillyBalls]

@TheBigGuy9 Stop it!!!

You're talking sense.

Logic causes a liberal's head to explode.

[Smashingdoozy]

That doesn't actually make sense. My body my choice isn't relevant when talking about vaccines, because it's not just your body that your choice is affecting.

[BillyBalls]

Abortion is not about your body/

It isn't your body being torn apart in utero and sucked out with a vacuum hose.

[Smashingdoozy]

Well done 👍 you've just explained how 1% of abortions happen. To women who WANTED the pregnancy but couldn't carry on.

[Silas_314]

"... it's not just your body that your choice is affecting" - SD
That's right, the decision to abort doesn't just affect the one who has decided to have the procedure.

[Smashingdoozy]

Actually it does. It's a medical procedure that only physically affects the person getting it. It may emotionally have effect on someone else but not physically. Unlike the choice to not get vaccinated which physically affects everyone.

[Archerer]

Hey guys, next time your pregnancy kills someone else, let me know, so much logic guys, my head is exploding, I can smell Trumps balls and its starting to smell good what is happening to me?

[Silas_314]

"Actually it does. It's a medical procedure that only physically affects the person getting it." - SD
... and the baby that's being "aborted".

[Smashingdoozy]

A fetus isn't conscious until 24-25 weeks.

[Silas_314]

Oh, they're not conscious, and so for that reason we can do as we like with them. I guess we can pull the plug on everyone who is in a coma then, and also kill people when they sleep, because they don't matter while they're in that state.
The lack of logic that pro-abortionists consistently display is nothing short of astonishing.

[Smashingdoozy]

We pull the plug on people who are brain dead... It's the same thing.

[Archerer]

@silas_314 "The lack of logic that pro-abortionists consistently display is nothing short of astonishing."

That's funny... Lets see how you handle this logic. Do you recognize that there is a difference between "not conscious" and "unconscious"? As in, someone who is asleep still has the CAPACITY for consciousness. Do you understand that difference? Or are you... astonished? Are you capable of understanding the profundity of this fact? Or are you going to double down on your ignorance and arrogance? I'm excited to find out.

[Silas_314]

@Archerer SD here has tried to argue that because they're "not conscious" (which could mean either one of those you mention), they're not worthy of consideration when it comes to whether or not to kill someone. Now, that truly IS astonishing, don't you think, or are you too full of your own opinions to see the blatantly obvious here?
"A fetus isn't conscious until 24-25 weeks", she said, the very strong implication of her words being that because of this they don't really matter.
Now, are you going to double down on your ignorance and arrogance? I'm excited to find out.

[Smashingdoozy]

They don't matter. The choice to abort doesn't affect you. If you want abortion rates to drop them advocate for free birth control and comprehensive sex Ed. If you're pro life help foster children and teens, adopt older kids, donate to charities that help kids who are already birthed.

[Archerer]

@Silas_314 What do you mean… she is right. And it’s because of what I said…

[Archerer]

@silas_314 Your logic entails not killing any animal, yet I doubt you are a vegan.

Not to mention your semantics, you know what she meant, she didn’t mean the fetus is asleep you dumb fuck. Nice try arguing hypotheticals though. Reality is a fetus that IS NOT conscious (again different from unconscious, kind of how a fucking rock or a chair is not conscious) isn’t worth a damn. And the only thing that matters about abortions is the woman’s mental health.

[Silas_314]

@Archerer "Your logic entails not killing any animal, yet I doubt you are a vegan."
Of course, because animals are killed when a woman has an abortion (eyeroll). It's HUMAN life we're talking about here, not spiders or mice.

[Silas_314]

@Archerer "Not to mention your semantics, you know what she meant, she didn’t mean the fetus is asleep you dumb (bleep)."
Actually, no, I didn't "know what she meant", because I'M NOT A MIND-READER! I can only respond to what people actually write here.

[Archerer]

@Silas_314 You don’t give a shit about human life either you liar.

[Silas_314]

@Archerer Yes, I do actually. I'm not the one who supports the murder of children; you are. Stop projecting.

[Silas_314]

@Archerer When you have nothing else to add, when you've come to the realisation that you are utterly wrong but too stubborn to admit it, just accuse the one you disagree with of being a liar. Absolutely pathetic!

[Smashingdoozy]

What's pathetic is a 50 year old man thinking he has a say in what happens to a womans body... Stop replying you look stupid.

[Silas_314]

Of course, because the body of the child that's being "aborted", and what happens to that, doesn't matter at all.
How is my age and gender relevant to any of this? It's a lame, 'ad hominem' argument that you're now resorting to. That's also pathetic, and just like 'Archerer' here, you have nothing of value to add, nothing further to say, because you know that you're wrong.

[Smashingdoozy]

What are your thoughts on this scenario: I need a kidney transplant, there is only 1 person who matches me, if they don't give me their kidney I will die. They choose not to give up their kidney to save me. Are they a murderer?

[Silas_314]

No, they're not a murderer, just someone who for whatever reason doesn't want to part with a kidney. The comparison is silly, because babies are not kidneys. You can't help to prevent the death of another person by donating your fetus to them. They're not animals either, which 'Archerer' seems to believe they are for some weird reason that I can't work out.
I think I will know what you'll say next: "Oh, but a fetus during most of the time it's developing is just like a kidney, it's nothing more than a clump of cells". Well, if that was going to be your next move, then no, I don't agree. We're so much more than just our physical bodies, more than just chemistry and electricity.

[Smashingdoozy]

You're right they're not a murderer because they have bodily autonomy. No the fetus requires the use of the mothers body to survive thus if the uterus haver doesn't want to share her organs she has every right not to. Because she has bodily autonomy. And before you say what about the fetus don't they have bodily autonomy, the answer is no, in order to have autonomy you have to be birthed.

[Silas_314]

"... in order to have autonomy you have to be birthed."
Since when? Says who?
Since we're on the subject of bodily autonomy, do you also believe that people who are refusing to be vaccinated for whatever reason they may be refusing, also have bodily autonomy? I ask, because it's a really odd coincidence that pro-abortionists tend to be in favour of making vaccinations mandatory for some weird reason.

[Smashingdoozy]

Says who? It requires ability to make decisions, which a fetus does not have. Yes of course people who are refusing vaccines have bodily autonomy, they have that choice, doesn't mean that choice in either circumstance is without consequences.

[Archerer]

@silas_314 We’ve completely destroyed each of your arguments yet you refuse to address ours, tell me who is projecting lmao

[Silas_314]

@Archerer Please, don't make me laugh. You haven't "destroyed" a damn thing here.

[Silas_314]

"It requires ability to make decisions, which a fetus does not have."
A rule that applies to babies that have just been born as well, and for quite some time after that. A two year old can't make rational choices, and that is where the responsibility of the parent comes in to ensure that the decisions they make for the child in question are in the child's best interests. Can I assume that opting to have a (for example) two year old killed because it's "inconvenient" to keep him or her alive isn't something you would go along with?

[Silas_314]

@Archerer As someone once put it, “I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.” - R. Reagan
Funny about that. Then again, no it isn't, because if they had a choice, I'm 100% certain that every child (or "fetus", if you prefer) would opt to live, to be born. They don't have that choice, so it's up to the rest of us to ensure they live if that is at all possible.

[Silas_314]

@Archerer I'm not going to "address your arguments" because, A) you don't actually have any, and B) why should I even care about someone who had the damn nerve to call me a liar simply because he couldn't respond to a point I had made?

[Smashingdoozy]

When something doesn't have autonomy decision making goes to the next best person, in cases of coma patients or brain dead people it's the next of kin, in a fetus it's the person carrying them. They are using the carriers body and organs in order to survive, so the carrier has every right to not allow that, just like they have every right to refuse to give their kidney to someone who will die without it.

[Archerer]

@Silas_314 You are a liar because every study ever shows that legalizing abortions actually causes the total number of abortions to go down. So if you cared, you'd be pro abortion. Simple as that.

[Silas_314]

@Archerer You think that I'm lying because, "every study ever shows that legalizing abortions actually causes the total number of abortions to go down. So if you cared, you'd be pro abortion. Simple as that."
A lie is a deliberate and conscious attempt at deception. If someone happens to be misinformed about, or ignorant of, whatever it is they're trying to convince you of, that is not a lie. That's just a person who doesn't know what they're talking about.
As for your claim about "every study ever", well, where are these "studies"? I've never seen them. That's not to say they're not out there, but where are they?
Anyway, I've had enough of your insults, and your brazen stupidity, arrogance, and ignorance. I may respond to Smashingdoozy (at least she doesn't accuse me of being a liar, she doesn't make it personal) but I will no longer respond to you, so don't bother replying here anymore.

[Smashingdoozy]

"Unintended pregnancy rates are highest in countries that restrict abortion access and lowest in countries where abortion is broadly legal."

www.guttmacher.org/.../induced-abortion-worldwide#

[Silas_314]

"When something doesn't have autonomy decision making goes to the next best person, in cases of coma patients or brain dead people it's the next of kin, in a fetus it's the person carrying them." - SD
Yes, it does, and the decision as to whether or not to (for example) pull the plug on a coma patient or keep them alive, will be made with the interests of the person in question being of paramount concern. At least, that's what most people believe it should be, but whether or not that actually occurs in the majority of instances is something else entirely.
I guess we may have to just agree to disagree, because we could keep this discussion going for the rest of the day and into tomorrow. It's a tricky, sensitive and complex issue, and I seriously doubt we're going to make any new discoveries that will turn the debate on its head.

[Smashingdoozy]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7971545/

[Smashingdoozy]

You will never have to be in the circumstances of possibly needing or seeking an abortion. We don't have to agree on the morality of it at the end of the day it's the womans choice.

[SuperKevHanma]

If your pro-murder ( I’m not gonna sugar coat it by calling it pro-choice) i consider you a whore because you want to have your cake and eat it too rather than show restraint and self control

[888theGreat]

yea baby! Supreme Court was going to allow them to do it anyway.

So all the whores beware , you will have to be more careful with the 20 guys you are having sex with.

[youreanidiot2]

I like banging whores.

[Archerer]

And here it is folks, the law isn’t to save babies it’s to punish women for liking sex

[888theGreat]

@Archerer And now we need to do something to keep you and your boyfriend from having fun from sex

[VanillaSalt]

We tried safe, legal, and rare… unfortunately people missed the rare part. Now let’s try NO.