You know, this reminds me of an old George Carlin skit.
"This is a country that gives you a list of stolen credit cards, but not a list of criminals and maniacs. And now they're thinking about banning toy guns, AND THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP THE FUCKING REAL ONES!!"
As for my opinion, take it or leave it, I don't see what all the fuss is with toy guns. Shit, my old man taught me how to use a REAL gun when I was 7. My father wasn't exactly stable either; he had PTSD and mild Schizophrenia. I can see where the worry about both me and my dad shooting real guns would be, but as for some cheap plastic toy... never.
As for getting hurt with toy guns, hell, we scraped our knees learning how to ride bikes when we were kids. Sometimes we broke a few bones playing sports. But I gotta tell you, someone who can't tell a toy gun from the real thing, especially these days, when toys are required to have orange plastic tips... it boggles my mind. Those are also people that shouldn't have guns. And think about it - some of those people are actually POLICE OFFICERS. You know, people that we actually trust with protecting the safety of our communities. That's REALLY scary.
I am of the opinion that if the actors / actresses are taught proper gun handling techniques fewer accidents like Baldwin's and previous accidents would be avoided. I am not a professional gun handler by far. However there are a few rules to follow that will greatly reduce accidents.
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded with a round in the chamber.
2. Don't point the gun at anything or anyone you don't intend to destroy.
3. Once a bullet is fired it will never be able to be recalled.
4. Always be aware of what is in the target area.. not only in front of target, to the sides of target and behind... as well as what is around you or behind you. Ricochets are just as dangerous as a direct shot.
I know that there are more but I don't want to type a book. One last one..
If you are unsure of anything that involves a firearm. Ask someone who will know. And don't touch the weapon until you understand how to operate it. Guns are not toys. I own several guns. I have been taught gun safety since I was 14. I am 43 and I know 1 thing that is for certain. It will not hurt or destroy any thing until it's in someone's hand.
I tend to be pro gun but i dont think it should be like in america where you can buy any gun like a candy from markets. I do think you should need a license but it should be very easy to get unlike in germany where it is nearly impossible to get and even when you get, you can't carry it around so far i know (?). It is very complicated in germany and other european countries. You even need a small license for a pepper spray, stun gun etc in germany and you can get these "guns" only when you are 18 (- As if people under 18 dont get attacked, raped etc.) Fortunately i dont need a license for pepper spray, stun gun, or alarm gun in austria but you still have to be 18 to get these things.
I personally prefere the gun laws in czech republic.
In conclusion, you can be pro "gun" but dont have to agree with the American gun laws.
This is foolish overreaction. This appears to have happened three or four times in the past 30 years on film sets. So, by and large, prop people are extremely careful.
Fire the idiot in charge of these guns and blacklist them. I'm sure they will be charged with negligent manslaughter and end up serving time for such carelessness!!!
But, point taken. However, controlling the use of MILLIONS of guns is nearly impossible, whereas controlling these FEW guns is eminently possible, so that's why people are trying to do it. It's another step along the way toward more broad gun control. Don't pooh pooh it.
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"Prop guns" are real guns that are called props on a movie set. This is the media trying to lie, again because they like alec baldwin, he's one of them. So let's clear these misconceptions right up.
Prop guns= real gun with "blanks"
Blanks = ammunition using wadding instead of a standard projectile.
Accidental discharge= Someone pulled the trigger. Especially in this case, being a period piece set in the 19th century, hand guns were revolvers. And specifically they were all 'single action'. For those of you who do not know what 'single action' means I will give you a brief explanation.
When a trigger is needing to be pulled on a gun 2 things need to happen, a hammer or a striking pin needs to be cocked, meaning pulled back into a striking position. Then the actual pull of the trigger releases the hammer to strike the firing pin to strike ignition cap on the round, or bullet. In the 'old days' people had to manually pull the hammer back before they could fire the weapon. Having to manually 'cock' the gun is what makes the gun 'single action'. Most of today's guns are double action. Meaning you pull the trigger and it pulls the hammer and strikes the pin in with one motion.
The kind of guns that were on the set of 'Rust' were single action. So Baldwin had to pull the hammer back with his thumb and then pull the trigger. He may or may not have intended to shoot anyone, but he definitely, unmistakably pulled the trigger. Guns don't fire themselves.
Always, Always, Always, if you are handed a gun, you check to see if it's loaded and what it's loaded with, if it is. This is standard gun safety and you will see the most experienced people in the world do this. Even if they just watched their best friend unload and check the weapon in front of them, when they get possession of the weapon, they check it's status first. This was negligence, irresponsibility, hubris, and just plain stupidity.
Apparently, this was a relatively (!) low-budget production that's been plagued with production problems. A bunch of the crew walked out due to a number of safety issues that the producers weren't handling properly. From what I've read, this wasn't even the first accidental live round that was discharged on this set, which was one of the big reasons the crew walked off. The armorer was also pretty new at her job (her prior production being her first time in charge), plus the assistant director violated protocol by handing out prop guns, which is only supposed to be done by the armorer.
Essentially, you had a production that was sloppy with safety rules on a continuing basis. As tragic as the Baldwin incident was, it's the preponderance and on-going nature of the safety issues that are really at fault here, and in my opinion, the producers, assistant director, and the armorer should face appropriate charges. Baldwin is one of the producers, by the way.
Yea we are, otherwise we’re going to have to do the same thing with cars as we do with guns think
37,595 Traffic death
39,707 gun deaths
Both from 2019
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm
2,112 more death by guns in 2019
so logically because there are only 2,112 more death from guns then there are cars (this includes suicide homicide and self-defense). But that 37,595 you can’t look at different factor like self defense or suicide or homicide you can only count traffic deaths as homicide there is no other factors to consider. Maybe we need to go back to the horse and buggy as well as bow and arrow. Or we can live with this amount of risk and continue to have our guns and cars otherwise we should have guns or cars
People need to stop treating regulations and laws as cure all's and accept harsh realities. Meth for example is one of the most heavily regulated substances in the US and across the world. Every country has stacked laws against the creation, distribution and use if it. Yet in every country it is cooked, sold and used at any given minute of any given day. Much like meth and other drugs regulations and laws are not going to stop firearms from being an issue. Because regulations and laws only stop people who are willing to fallow them and not everyone is.
The world is never going to be all sunshine and rainbows. Accept this and do your best to try to ensure you are not affected by it. Because that is the only thing anyone can do.
Slapping new regulations on the movie industry isn’t really the answer. The industry voluntarily adopted stringent safety protocols on prop guns (which are actual firearms by the way) after the Brandon Lee incident but when a production crew is careless and doesn’t follow them, there’s nothing you can do. Regulations don’t make careless people suddenly change course. No law can protect you. You just have to accept that the cost of having freedom to own and use firearms is that there will be tragic accidents and people who use them with malice. It’s a trade off America has always made. You can’t regulate your way to safety.
As with anything about guns you have to follow safety protocols. Assume every gun is loaded and check. These idiots didn't follow the rules. I actually didn't think a "prop" gun could fire anything but blanks. But even a blank can kill as rising movie star John Hexum found out when he put a 44 magnum to his head and fired it. The wad blanks have was powerful enough to kill him. As far as rules go. Follow the ones already in place and don't be a dumb ass and you should be fine.
We have too many gun laws... a bunch of do gooders think that if you create a law it fixes a problem. The reality is that culture changes like parents being too lazy to teach their kids how to respect others (and society making it hard for parents to punish their own kids) gives you a world where there's lots of entitled a-holes who think it's okay to shoot random people at school/work. They don't value any life because they were raised to think that the world revolves around them.
As to props... in Alec Baldwin's case... there were a lot of deviations from normal movie industry procedures & they hired an inexperienced person with a history of breaking the rules to be in charge of weapons. Dumb.
Given the film crew had had two accidental discharges a week before already this was sheer negligence. More regulation won’t help, more enforcement of existing regulation on film crews and more protection for whistleblowers would as well.
As for gun control for the general population it depends on the type of gun control. Bans tend to be ineffective at reducing gun crime but increasing education or training, especially offering it for free, does tend to help. Going after the reason why people resort to using guns like income inequality or lack of mental health resources is another good way to reduce it.
Gun owners know this: treat evey gun as if it is loaded at all times. Always keep muzzle pointed in a safe direction, consistently check and recheck chamber. Never put your finger inside the trigger guard unless intending to use. Do not brandish your weapons. Always keep weapon holstered unless lethal force or reasonable suspicion of lethal force presents itself. All shots fired are treated as lethal force no matter what. Warning shots are highly dangerous to bystanders and also illegal. Always know your back stop at all times! The objective is to stop a threat, not kill. Once threat is neutralized make sure to survail the area for any more threats, reholster firearm, immediately dial for police and ambulance. If you don't know these basic rules you have no business having a firearm. And since most Hollywood elites are actually morons on this subject they don't need a gun.
Well... for starters, these were actors... on the job. All jobs have safety regulations.
You are mainly talking about crime. Ok, you brought it up. What is your idea to stop thousands and thousands of criminals from getting guns and shooting people?
The gang on gang stuff... do you even care of the gang member off each other? It is only when their stray bullets hit innocent people that I care.
Whatcha got? Awe us with your brilliant idea? You've got some woman getting raped on a Philly train with people watching and doing nothing. I'm all for people whipping out guns and blowing him away. What do you have to stop the crime?
Caution, unpopular, triggering opinion: i sometimes think that we don't need a nanny state that regulates all those things. I think that active interferes with natural selection mechanisms could be bad for humanity as a whole. Like if you're dumb enough to have your kid play with a dangerous weapon, then as harsh as that sounds: maybe it's better that the natural discouragement of stupid behavior (by killing those that practice it) is a natural and a desirable thing. Maybe were not helping humanity along by making rules only to keep fools alive that wouldn't otherwise make it...
My real concern with prop guns is children being shot for playing with them. My kids play with nerf guns. My kids pick up sticks and pretend they are guns. This is common kid behavior.
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I do think ensuring REAL guns stay out of the hands of the unstable should be paramount.
You do realize that the only reason a "prop gun" killed someone was because of several failures by a minimum of two, likely three or more people to follow existing standards and regulations, right? In what fantasy world do you or anyone else think that just making more regulations for lazy self-righteous twats to ignore is going to make things "safer?"
I feel that if it is a prop gun then there should be zero chance of being harmed or killed by it.
1 death via a prop gun is worse that 30,000 deaths by real guns; only in the sense that a prop gun should not be able to harm or injure someone, so maybe tighter regulations are needed.
It's also easier to manage and address this rather than those with real guns who do not understand how to use them safely or feel they have a right to use them unsafe.
I haven't read too much about it all; however I cannot see why real bullets were required to be near the set at any time?
'More than 30,000 car death per year. Is your 'freedom' to murder others worth this?'
Unironically, if prop guns really do have more stringent regulation than actual guns, we both agree that it's bullshit, we ain't gonna agree on the solution though. This is your daily reminder that the government is not your friend.
I don't care what hollywood does as to laws on take guns those idiots are so far beyond the pale they're not worth saving. 99% of the business in Hollywood is a net negative for the rest of the world socially and fiscally.
You're not passing any gun laws because a baldwin is a retard. If we passed a law every time a baldwin did some stupid shit we'd have ran out of legal paper a decade ago.
Regulations WORK thats why we have speed limits, why we don't let children fly planes, why we're not allowed to give heart surgery ago after watching a youtube video. Regulations don't save everyone but they save enough to make them worthwhile.
Yes, a CDC study in 2018 says between 500,000 and 3 million people were saved through the defensive use of firearms. For all the liberal minded folk who know nothing about guns but believe everything the CDC tells them this ought to make a lot of people shut up.
Why would we argue about guns when:
1: regardless of any gun control, no rules apply to hollywood.
2: There's basic gun safety, if he didn't knew it then it was his responsibility to know it.
3: This happened by the hands of a guy who's in favor of gun regulation, which shows that criminals are hypocrites and won't respect even the rules they believe in.
There are a lot of things that can kill people on a movie set that doesn't involve a prop gun. It's called having a qualified and non-negligent crew. It's coming out that maybe the armorer on the set wasn't qualified considering her previous interviews.
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