Do you think that Ukraine has some strategic importance to NATO or do they just see it as a way to give Russia a "bloody nose"?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

in my opinion, the Ukraine had strategic importance in that if the US could had missile bases there, they could quickly strike Russia with a low chance of interception. Russia said that this was an unacceptable option so they went into Ukraine to prevent this. However, a month into the war, the Russians have been unable to obtain air supremacy over Ukraine so if the performance of their air defense system is any indication of their missile defense capability (which it usually is given the degree of overlap between the two), the US probably wouldn't need missiles in Ukraine or even Europe to threaten Russia. They could do that with missiles on submarines or launched from US territory. So by that calculus, Ukraine would just be useful in that it's hurting Russia and sapping their war resources.

[RolandCuthbert]

The question is worded weirdly. If you are Putin supporter, just come and say it.

Ukraine has appealed to NATO for membership in the past. And NATO told Ukraine, they could not become a member if they were at war with Russia. Them becoming a member triggers Article Five on day one of their membership, which meant nuclear war between the U. S. and Russia.

People keep talking about this like they have been beaten with an idiot stick. Russia invaded Ukraine 9 years ago under President Poroshenko. That's when the talk of joining NATO began. Because, Russia violated Ukrainian sovereignty after vowing it would never do that, as long as Ukraine stayed neutral. After the invasion, Ukrainians saw no reason to stay neutral. You guys don't know anything about the situation. I was in Red Square, the day Russia invaded Crimea..

It did not happen in reverse order.

Russia invaded because Ukraine kicked out their stooge of a President, who stole billions from the country.

So why do you keep spreading the lie that Russia had any NATO concerns? Russia's concern is that Ukraine becomes a democracy and not their vassal state.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I'm not a Putin supporter, I think he is using the NATO threat as an excuse to justify the invasion and I have rebuked sone of the claims made by him and his supporters:

What do you think of the claims of US funded biological weapons development in the Ukraine? ↗

What do you think the "West" should do to support the Ukraine in the war? ↗

Is NATO a threat to the national security of Russia or Putin's Neo-Tsarist ambitions? ↗

Are Russia's claims that the "West is pretending that that the war started on February 24th while ignoring the war in the Donbass" merited? ↗

What do you think of Putin and his cronies using the War in the Donbass and the 2014 Coup orchestrated by Fascist groups as a pretext for war? ↗

My question here was whether or not the "West" intended to bring Ukraine into the fold or if they just see it as a way to give Russia a bloody nose.

[RolandCuthbert]

Again, the talk of joining the West only began after Putin invaded. So again, this has nothing to do with any ambition of the "West". Ukraine was looking for a way to guarantee its security. Which is why they wanted to join NATO 9 years ago. And the request was denied because they were at war with Russia. A nation cannot join NATO if it is at war. But Ukraine could not join beforehand because Russia had agreed to never invade if they remained neutral.

Do you see why your question is at best problematic?

[TheBigWhistle]

I believe NATO sees Putin's goal as getting the band back together and the feeling is, success in invading Ukraine will embolden him and he will bank on a divided NATO not standing up for the Baltic States who are NATO members which most believe would be the next target. Better to show a unified NATO now than have to do it when the mutual defense pact is triggered. Also, and this may be hard to believe given the high cynicism of almost everyone, but some in NATO might actually believe, in 2022, invading a sovereign country who has done nothing to you and bombing it back into the 18th century is... simply wrong.

[SinceYouAsked]

I don't know about the importance to NATO, specifically. But Ukraine is a major wheat and corn producer. Cereal is their number 1 export. They are also a major exporter of iron, steel and ores, as well as animal and vegetable oils (sunflower, safflower oils). So it is a regional 'breadbasket'.
It is geographically important due to it's location on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. The big reason Russia wanted the Crimea is that it controls passage between the two. Not to mention that the Dnieper River, which originates in Russia and flows through Belarus, passes through Ukraine before emptying into the Black Sea. It surrounds Moldova, which wold make Moldova an easy target if Russia is successful in Ukraine.
It's also the 2nd largest country in Europe. And, yes, it provides a buffer between Russia and 4 different NATO countries. And there are already 2 NATO countries on his border (Estonia and Latvia). But Putin's invasion of Ukraine and the atrocities being committed are reasons why any nation should want to belong to NATO. And, the more nations who join, the more secure the region becomes. NATO nations are not aggressors. They offer relative peace and stability.

[themann43]

Ukraine is more corrupt then even Russia. Everyone knew this until 2 months ago. Major News agencies as far as last December wrote articles about the corruption of Ukraine (a simple google search brings up dozens from sites like CNN, Fox, Washington Times, etc). But because the Libtard agenda dictates they side with Ukraine they pretend like Ukraine is some bastion of freedom and liberty 🙄


Both Russia and Ukraine are corrupt nations led by industrial oligarchs. Ukraine is also hiding Bidens connections to Russia, Hunter Biden himself has dozens of millions in assests in Ukraine. Ukraine also 100% hosts some US biological warfare Labs. There is no “Good Guy” in this small war.

[Somoneelse]

I believed there were other things going on. This is what we get told in Holland:

Ukraine wanted to join Nato. Putin saw that as a threat and started threathing Ukraine by saying he will attack if they go on joining Nato. They went on and Putin started invading from multiple points. Now the claim from him is to "cleanse" Ukraine from the Nazi's instead of the Nato concerns. But we also get told over here Putin wants to recreate the USSR just like how Hitler wanted to create his Third Reich. It is really confusing lately.

[genericname85]

of course ukraine has strategic importance to NATO... that's a no brainer. it's right at russias border.

it's as important strategically to NATO as Cuba was strategically important to russia during the cold war.

remember how russia being in Cuba almost started a nuclear war in the 60s? well... we are having that exact situation right now, if the USA actually take putins actions that they intentionally provoked as a reason to get involved.

and if i hear that demented retard biden talk, that seems to be the exact plan... maybe that works out for you americans. for us europeans it will be hell... but i think amerika is shooting their own knee with how they handle foreign relations right now.

[ODC2112]

Modern military interdiction doctrines provide for the use of missiles with multiple nuclear warheads by submarine launched missiles. In this way it is not possible to see from where the missile can be launched. The American and British UGM-133A Trident II missiles have 11300 km of range, the French EADS M51 have a range of 11000 km / 20.000 km depending on the load, 11000 with 10 warheads and 20.000 with 2.

Aircraft like the B52 can easily launch 20 BGM-109 Tomahawk missiles, have 2500 km range and can carry nuclear weapons. This means that a B52 flying over Milan can easily hit Moscow.

This makes the whole Putinian narrative on NATO and missiles a First Cold War thing.

[AviatorTom]

Ukraine lies in a relatively flat area between Russia and the rest of Europe (NATO) that would make it fairly easy for either side to attack the other with ground troops in the event of a conflict. That makes Ukraine uniquely important to both sides since it acts as a buffer between them, making an attack by either unlikely. That's why both sides want Ukraine in its own sphere of influence. Russia would be particularly threatened if Ukraine joined NATO.

[goaded]

I don't think anyone in the West wanted an invasion of Ukraine for any reason. Clearly, joining NATO would have been strategically beneficial to Ukraine, like it has been to the other countries neighbouring Russia, including Poland. I'm sure a NATO member Ukraine could still have hosted Russian naval bases in Crimea, and that an agreement not to base nuclear weapons there would have been easy, especially as they gave up their Soviet-era nukes when they gained independence.

[SinceYouAsked]

Yeah - I think people forget that Ukraine was promised non-aggression as a result of giving up their nuclear arsenal. There were a lot of key Soviet military installations in Ukraine before the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

[goaded]

@SinceYouAsked You're right (but you're answering a 12day old question)!

[Squaresquirrel]

If I believe in conspiracy theories, Nato and Ukraine was a brilliant way to poke the bear until Russia digs its own grave, Putin mainly. One superpower less. And it was a good way to sort of stop China's friendship with Russia, or at least to put a halt on it.
Putin made a big mistake here.

[SinceYouAsked]

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. But, if Ukraine (with the West's support) can stop Russia, it might give Xi second thoughts about invading Taiwan. If Putin had taken Ukraine with little opposition, it probably would have emboldened Xi to take Taiwan. That might have given Kim some ideas in Korea. So Ukraine is even more important that some might realize. If Putin didn't have one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world (and appears ready to use it), I suspect the West would have already taken a more direct involvement.

[libsaretards]

Ukraine ranks top 10 in the world for several crucial natural resources, including some that can fuel nukes. If Russia gets their hands on that store, they could substantially increase their nuclear weapons capabilities. The thought of Russia increasing their capabilities is super scary.

[007kingifrit]

von manstein, hitler, napolean, they all invaded russia through ukraine. because if you can cross it and southern russia you can cut russia off from it's only warm water ports.

this is the area called the "volgagrad gap" and russia is very worried about this. russia doesn't have time to stop an invasion where the current borders sit before this can happen. especially with modern birth rates being so low that the usual russian strategy is almost undoable.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

Just like Germany was after WWII, Ukraine is a very strategic position between The West and Russia.
Upon seeing the map, you get that nearly half of Ukraine is there on the west side and the other half is on the Russian side.

[josephinelcajon]

Its a mixture of everything. moving us closer to Russia, is probably the most important. Prevent Russia from gaining a sea port and pipeline to it. prevent the growth of communism.

[noohair]

Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine has been a washing machine for corrupt cash. The issue is. Putin, for 15 years, has been telling every political leader that he met that he would draw the line in Ukraine. No one actually listened.

[jshm2]

Just as Cuba had importance for the Soviet Union, so does Nato want Ukraine for something similar. Its why Russia isn't allowing it.

[Iron_Man]

I don’t understand why they’re always on defense and why don’t they invade Russia they’re right next to them. Give them a test of their own medicine then they probably back down

[Zygum]

Why no NATO gives Membership status to Ukraine and involves in war with Russia to defend Ukraine. NATO was very quick and efficient to attack Muslim countries, like, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan to occopy their Oil resources.

[N7117Jedi]

I think Ukraine is more strategically important to Russian than it is to NATO.

[Waldoe]

I think that is an "Over there" Problem... not an "Over Here" Problem.. let Europe deal with whatever that means... USA, USA, USA

[Fuentes]

Ukraine had a flat train going back & fourth into Moscow so if ever needed to invade its just a 12 hour entrance, they're basically our Mexico

[ChefPapiChulo]

You’re a special kind of stupid.

[Fuentes]

@ChefPapiChulo you're map illiterate & blind but it makes sense everytime you looked into the mirror at your ugly self, you lost your sight.

[robocop666]

and now Russia will supply American enemies with arms like the Americans did to the Russians in Afghanistan. This will hurt American wars. This future cold war will be horrible.

[michael1469]

Ukraine has militray and economic strategic to russia has access to the seaway.