Government should be for Citizens, not fetuses…right?

[OddBeMe]

Funny that right wingers value fetuses but not illegal immigrants.

Yes! Only actual citizens

No! All lives! Just not immigrants…

[nightdrot]

Voted C - all lives including immigrants.

The state affords protections to its citizens, including the automatic granting of citizenship to those born on the soil of the state or to the parents of a citizen. Hence the controversy over the "Dreamers" in the immigration debate.

To go down the path of this question implies a legal and ethical atmosphere that led to the Holocaust,, slavery, segregation and much else. The state decides who fits the criteria of the citizen according to a standard other than birthright. Bad things to follow.

If the state begins making distinctions among those born within its borders as to when their rights are forfeit by virtue of their mere existence, that leads to a moral relativism the history of which is very well documented.

Besides, the question is problematic. If a distinction is to be made between citizen and fetus, the issue then becomes of the exact precise moment when the fetus becomes a citizen. Specifically, what is the precise second in time when the fetus becomes the citizen and what are the physical and moral differences between that fetus one second before that moment and one second after.

Trust me, this is one path that it would be highly unwise to go down.

[OddBeMe]

That’s what we’re doing prioritizing fetuses over illegal immigrants. Making distinctions.

And you said it…citizens are born.

[nightdrot]

No, actually, illegal immigrants are given "due process" protections and are afforded other "human rights" that the fetus is not granted. Citizens are born, but under current law they have even fewer rights and protections than illegal immigrants.

[OddBeMe]

wait what? Citizens have fewer protections than illegals?

[nightdrot]

The unborn do. Illegal immigrants get at minimum "due process" protections. The unborn have no appeal or other protection for at least 15 weeks.

[OddBeMe]

The unborn aren’t citizens.

Even your Bible doesn’t count children until after the first month.

[nightdrot]

Actually, read the Declaration of Independence. "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." They have birthright citizenship and since they are born in America, they cannot be anything other than Americans.

Although it is interesting that, by your formulation, they get no legal protections and are little more than raw material. In this context, unborn equals stateless and therefore things like the first trimester restriction on abortions established by the courts are anomalous.

[OddBeMe]

Let’s go wide angle. Science can only tell us that born individuals are people. Maybe they’ll have more research in the future to say “Day 143 is the moment the fetus becomes a person”.

Before that day, the government has no right taking away rights from people or citizens in favor of the unborn ho aren’t…anything.

[nightdrot]

Let's go science. From the moment a human sperm fertilizes a human egg, can the result be anything other than human? Will it be a duck? A horse? A cow?

It can only be what it is, and that is human. The philosophical, political and legal question is at what point we choose to extend value and protection to human life. If we choose otherwise, then we are, at that point, choosing to grade and value human life according to some other criteria - that criteria being set by those with the power to impose it. This then fostering an ethic of convenience and moral relativism.

[Anonymous]

Funny that Leftists reduce everything to the simplest and most retarded association possible to set up a false binary.

Kill ‘em all. Kill all the babies you want. And let us kill all the people that break our laws and invade our borders.

Deal?

I mean you’re getting the better end of things here. People are gonna keep on fucking and making babies to be aborted.

But something tells me once a few people get clipped on the border by our military that trip to El Norte wouldn’t seem so appealing to so many.

[exitseven]

Illegal immigrants are breaking the law. We have immigration laws for a reason. It is not fair for citizens to have to pay to support millions of people who just are here looking for a free ride. It is estimated that each illegal alien costs taxpayers between 35 and 50 thousand dollars a year. Per person, per year. It is truly the gift that keeps on giving. Multiple that by 3 million (conservative estimate) and we are talking billions. How many schools could be built or roads repaired with that money. Our elderly and veterans are ignored while complete strangers that never paid a dime into the system come here are given free everything.

[Guy13]

The Subject is not Immigrants…the Subject is Murder of a fully formed genetically coded, formed, and hear beating within a month child. ProAbortionist, both men and women, have turned the woman’s womb into Hitler’s gas chambers WHERE it is legal to purposefully, willingly, intentional premeditate killing of a child in the womb. I can not still believe this conversation is necessary as right verse wrong and MURDER is Elementary in its understanding

[OddBeMe]

(Checking science)
Nope children are born. This is a fetus inside a woman’s body.

[Guy13]

God says if a man strikes a woman and injury occurs to child and child is lost that “you shall appoint as a penalty Life (of man) for Life (unborn/lost child in womb), eye for eye, tooth for tooth “etc.(Exodus 21:22-25)‼️
—Go look at sonogram. Head, beating heart, form, full genetic code…MURDER.
—Your science is secondary and a figment to ease your conscious IF you still have one that’s not seared.
There’s still time for you to seek God, through Savior and Lord Christ Jesus, and repent!!!

[OddBeMe]

God has nothing to do with laws. We’re a secular country Jesus-boy. Go bitch in church and stop taking rights from women.

[Guy13]

You’re sounding borderline ignorant as we are one of many Nations and God is the Originator of Law and knowledge of right and wrong. Man has not evolved into it as you can see with Putin. Everyone knows violating Life UNNECESSARILY…MURDER is Wrong.
-Why do you think the world 🌎 🌍 🌏 knows Murder is wrong. Adultery is wrong. Why In God We Trust in Courtrooms. I’m not trying to be insulting but you are sadly misinformed.

[OddBeMe]

I’m sounding ignorant? You’re taking your cues from a magic man in the sky. Lol

[Guy13]

I’m going to let you go but I wish you had more knowledge as it relates to religion, philosophy, science, and archaeology so we could have a discussion not base upon quips as related to science and magic man. Best in your endeavors👍

[OddBeMe]

So long. I promise to read more into it, if you promise to read more about science, evolution and how freakin old the universe is that god is quite superfluous.

[TheMajesticKing777]

If ima be honest I don't care about fetuses or humans so weither it's a fetus or a human they are just the same amount of useless

And the government is just another usless thing that was created by useless humans trying to be something other than useless, which makes em useless, you get me?

[OddBeMe]

Sure. But you like roads and no crime?

[TheMajesticKing777]

I kinda like the crime cause it can pay well, depends, what type of crime?

[OddBeMe]

I don’t know. I have legal business that uses roads, likes not having equipment stolen and pays are fcking taxes.

[TheMajesticKing777]

I don't know what you want me to tell you lol

[OddBeMe]

I just got defrauded so I'm a little sensitive...

[TheMajesticKing777]

Damn foreal that sucks

[OddBeMe]

yeah. what kinda crime do you accomplish?

[888theGreat]

The right of everyone (including babies ) the pursuit of liberty and happiness. They can't have that if they are dead. This why Liberals want Constitution removed. They could outlaw guns, freedom of speech , and religion. That is what they want to do.

[jshm2]

You're being callous trying to compare the two.

Government need a populace to do the work and pay the taxes. Be that it's own i. e. foetuses that will grow up to be citizens. Or immigrants that will pay and settle to become full citizens.

[Sevenpointfive]

they flip flop more than a fish out of water. it's sickening. choose a godamn side people. that sounds stupid. knowing who i am, but i choose the right side every time even if it's left at times

[Juxtapose]

I don't like illegal immigration and I love that abortion is still legal. I don't really have an option to pick.

[KrakenAttackin]

Fetuses will eventually become American citizens. Illegals are just that, illegals

[OddBeMe]

but theyre not citizens. so why are worried?

[KrakenAttackin]

Perhaps we should grant citizenship to fetuses.

[OddBeMe]

so no to illegals... but fetuses you're all in?

[KrakenAttackin]

Exactly.

[OddBeMe]

Weird.

[msc545]

All lives.