When does human life begin?

[letuswaltzforthedead]

At conception (Within 12-24 hours, a pregnancy is usually detected in week 4-5)

When the fetus starts developing a heart/brain (Begins at around 6-10 weeks)

When the fetus can feel pain (starts to feel pain by week 12, confirmed by week 20 )

When the baby is viable outside of the womb (usually around weeks 22-24, the earliest was 21 week and 5 days old)

At the beginning of the third trimester and beyond (After week 28)

When the fetus is born

Other

[nightdrot]

Logically it must be at the moment of conception.

A thing cannot be other than what it is. When a human egg and a human sperm meet, the only thing that will ever result is human. It will not become a duck or a cow or anything else.

It is what it must be at any point of its development. To point to some sub-category that defines humanity is problematic. If, for example, it is argued that a fetus is not human because it cannot talk, you immediately strip away the humanity of the person in a coma or the deaf mute.

The essence of the abortion debate to which you indirectly allude is that once the definition of "human" becomes not a fact, but a subjective moment in time, lots of bad things begin to happen. That definition becoming controlled by those with the power to exercise and impose it and thus an ethic of subjective power and not moral principle comes to dominate the culture.

A fetus cannot be anything other than a human life. It cannot be other than what it is and if it was not human it would have to have the capacity to become something other than a human being. This it does not have and therefore it cannot be other than what it is - a human being at a point in the natural aging and growing of a human being.

The argument that a fetus is not a human being is problematic. If it is not, then at what point does it become human? What then is the physical difference one second before that instant and one second after? Moreover, what is the moral distinction one second before that moment and one second after?

The last question is pertinent. First, because it is assumed that humans have an inherent worth and that they have rights that inhere in their humanity. "Worth" and "rights" are not physical but philosophical and epistemological phenomena. Therefore, there must be something consistent with physical development that conduces to a moral outcome. It is therefore essential to know what that is and when it happens.

Typically, some will argue that consciousness is the defining factor. That, however, is problematic. The man in a coma lacks consciousness - awareness of self and surroundings. If it is argued that a man in a coma MIGHT recover, then potentiality is the criteria. The problem being that the fetus shares - from the moment of conception - that same potentiality.

A thing does not lose its defining moral and physical characteristics just because of where it is any moment in time. Physical development is transitory, but a being does not lose certain essential characteristics. A fetuses' DNA is as human as an adult. There is no difference at any point in time from conception to death. To repeat, the fetus has NO potential to become a duck. It cannot be other than what it is.

As to the example that a human being by even the 5th month will not survive on its own. That too is a flawed argument. By that logic, the man in a coma is not human as he will not survive absent means to sustain his life. Suddenly your definition of "human" is based on very slippery soil. Humanity being defined by its capacity to survive.

By that logic, the infant is similarly doomed. After all, he too cannot survive absent the conditions that make his survival possible. This again leaving his humanity to be defined by those with the power to provide such conditions.

CONT.

[nightdrot]

Further, "worth" and "rights" are either objective and inherent, in which case they cannot be justly taken at the convenience of another being. Alternatively, they are subjective and relative to time and circumstance. In which case, they can be taken as easily from a newly conceived child as from a black man in the pre-Civil War south or a Jew in 1930s Germany.

The problem at the moment is that the culture claims that it believes that life has inherent worth and inherent rights. However, it places freedom and therefore will above such beliefs in practice. As Burke said, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Thus do rights become not inherent to the human being, but a subjective judgment that can be taken by those with the power to take it.

[Jamie05rhs]

@nightdrot The slippery slope has already begun. People in comas have already lost their humanity in the eyes of popular opinion. People have been conditioned to accept the concept of "pulling the plug.". (This never sat right with me as a child. I think that is because children are inherently more moral that adults; they have not yet lost their compass of Right and Wrong.)
But the reason this is becoming more and more accepted is for purely economic reasons. The ethics of veterinary care are now being applied to humans. "If we can't afford the bill to keep them alive or make them well, well, we'll just kill them off."
But part of the problem here is the profit-driven healthcare system. No one is going to pay to try to keep someone alive. Because, let's face it: no one person's life is worth that much (from an accounting perspective.)

[nightdrot]

@Jamie05rhs Yes, there has been some of what you describe. Though it is probably not quite as common as you suggest.

That said, all life is practiced on a slippery slope. The point is to argue - as far as is possible - against taking the steps against going down the slope.

As far as your explanation for why this is happening, there is no doubt a crudely utilitarian economic explanation. Americans are prone to that kind of utilitarianism, coming as they do, culturally, out of the idea of the Enlightenment with its somewhat mechanistic view of what is called natural law.

Americans thus tend to accept a sort of crude utilitarianism and then are just as equally prone to be shocked and horrified at the consequences of that utilitarianism. These things ebb and flow and the purpose of wise statecraft is to - as Aristotle and Aquinas and Burke, among others - argued is to nurture virtue and a more complex idea of justice.

[Jamie05rhs]

No; they're prone to it because of simple economic reality. It has nothing to do with philosophy. If you don't have the money, you don't have the money.

[nightdrot]

@Jamie05rhs My point about utilitarianism was to suggest that it is economically driven. Americans tend to justify their actions in narrowly economic terms. They give short shrift do the larger moral issues until the consequences of their actions become apparent, at which point there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The truth is that the clear line that you are attempting to draw between the economic and the moral is not real. At an irreducible level they are intertwined and therefore Americans - and not just Americans - are routinely shocked by the results of what they mistakenly define as ONLY economic pressures and considerations.

[cute_short_nerd]

Killing babies? Pretty metal if you ask me.

[nightdrot]

@cute_short_nerd Not sure what that means. However, as you can tell from reading what I wrote, my position is hardly in favor of abortion. That was not, however, the question here.

Rather, the question is when life begins and this I attempted to answer at the nexus of basic science and moral philosophy.

[ohsheeT]

The moment that your boyfriend tells you he's allergic to condoms or it will be okay because he'll pull it out that's when it starts and that's when you have a choice to say I know you either put it on and wear it or go find somebody else because I'm not ready to have a child that's when it starts it starts with two people that want to be adults have that conversation because once that conversation is over you can't take anything back that's when Life Starts make the right choice do not listen to a guy who tries to b******* you that's when human life begins right there in there it's your choice before that choice is made for you

[lumos]

Literally nobody can define this because it's completely subjective, according to how each individual defines "human" and "life". I can't answer this question because I see all and no answers as logical. You could argue that human life begins when the egg/sperm is created and you could argue that human life begins as our first memories are actually being formed at age 2.5. It all depends on what angle you prefer according to your own beliefs. In the end, none of our opinions matter because none of it can ever be pure fact.

[Snsl153]

At conception. Next question!

[AviatorTom]

@snsl153 Medically speaking, when is that? "the moment of conception"? Is it when the sperm first penetrates the outer layer of the ovum? When the sperm penetrates the ovum's nucleus? When the sperm's chromosomes mix with the ovum's chromosomes? When the now-fertilized ovum splits into two cells? The fact that no one can definitely states exactly when conception occurs is why there are so many opinions about when human life begins. This is not an easy question to answer.

[OlderAndWiser]

This is an argument about definitions but the argument is never made explicit. Define "life" and you have made some progress on deciding when life begins. Otherwise, people simply choose an answer that is consistent with their belief on abortion.

I believe that life begins at conception. I have no opposition to any form of birth control or contraception tha prevents an egg from being fertilized. I am opposed to abortion and all forms of contraception that kill fertilized eggs.

[Cherry234]

D - at the point of viability in my opinion. Although I am pro-choice, I am against late term abortion unless it's an exceptional circumstance like if something is seriously wrong with the fetus or the mother's health or life is at risk. I even understand the validity of a late term abortion if the baby is going to die immediately or shortly after being born. In that case getting the abortion would alleviate suffering for both the mother and the baby. 24 weeks (or whatever the actual point of viability is) is plenty of time to decide if you want an abortion.

[Varanus]

Technically a human life begins at conception, but it's effectively a parasite until somewhere between 5 and 100+ years old.

If you're asking the question I know you're asking: when should a human life be granted legal rights and protections, my vote is when it starts school. That's when society at large begins expending significant effort toward its success, and it's developed sufficient intelligence to have a meaningful personality.

Sane arguments could be made for "when it's been born and is viable", but only if we also have robust systems in place to care for unwanted children and to provide financial assistance for those in need.

It is absolutely and completely unacceptable to force breed a human being, for ANY reason. A human being must always have the right to abort at ANY stage, for ANY reason. Anything less is to place the rights of a blob of cells leeching off its host above the rights of a living, sapient being.

[TheorionMage]

'Human' life is when a fetus begins viable to 'house' a human Sentience (Soul)...
PRIOR to that, a developing fetus is nothing MORE than an evolved benign parasitic growth! Deriving nutrients and oxygen and secreting biological waste through the placenta...
'Miscarriages' are when that parasitic growth becomes harmful/cancerous to its 'host' due to mutation. Think of it as a human 'Soul' loitering in the viewing area of an automotive manufacturer's factory, watching and awaiting for their 'vehicle' to be completed along their assembly line... numerous benchmarks and quality tests must be completed. While irreconcilable organic physical defects can necessitate a rejection ALSO 'procedural' irregularities can also 'cancel' completion of the physical host 'animus'.

[shaysh87]

why would it matter when human life begins? when you can't guarantee this innocent being a decent childhood, a good education, a good home. its better off not being born. When innocent defenseless kids get into the hands of the wrong people looking to adopt, its only the kid that suffer the most. Poor upbringing is how criminals are usually made.

[cute_short_nerd]

Exactly

[WhiteSteve]

I’d say it would be at conception, technically. But you’re not a person until you’re born. “Don’t count your eggs before they hatch”, right? Obviously, as mammals, the womb is our “egg”, and we are birthed rather than hatched. But I think the analogy still applies.

[WhiteSteve]

“Don’t count your CHICKENS before they hatch”, that is. Whoops😂

[Anonymous]

I think when there is a fully developed brain and the ability for a pain response, before that time I think it could be an elective procedure but after that time it should be for medical reason such as the fetus is impatible with life, or the it would be a risk to the mother to give birth.

[Anonymous]

The Bible says "at first breath" and actually gives direction for abortions... So my vote is "at first breath"

That said, the government's job is to protect people's human rights, not to legislate one groups morality to be imposed upon another so "when life begins" is less of the question than "when legal personhood begins".

[Emii_Urashima]

In many countries, if a person kills a pregnant woman, they are charged with 2 deaths

[Opinion Owner]

@Emii_Urashima this is true, but they are entitled to their logic... Every country is different.

[AviatorTom]

Difficult question that has been asked for centuries. There is no right or wrong answer, everyone has their own opinion. I tend to go with a variant of D... when the fetus is viable outside the womb on its own, without external help.

[abc3643]

H
When all your debts are paid-off and you can retire without financial worries.
Until then, you are just a piece of meat for the wealthy to consume as they wish.

[cute_short_nerd]

Smart

[Anonymous]

There is no doubt that life begins at conception. Of that there is literally no question. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise for the purpose of justifying abortion simply loses any credibility because they are showing their ignorance and/or dishonesty.

But the real question here is whether there is adequate justification for ending that human life before a certain point it its development. That is the ONLY question, and I personally believe there is adequate justification in many cases.

[LazerBean]

Science is very clear that it starts at conception.

https://evolutionnews. org/2020/02/when-does-human-life-begin/

[Aiko_E_Lara]

That's just a way for pro life to monopolize that discussion and use the words "because science said do" to invalidate anyone having a different point of view. They gather scientific data about the facts that makes them consider a fetus a human life but also ignore the other facts science also say about a fetus that pro choice can use to invalidate their point of view. You can say human life starts at conception because science said so but it's not really different if we say human life don't start at conception because science said so.

[WhitneySnow]

I voted C cause that sounds logical and it gives the woman a reasonable time to have an abortion, but I’m far from a doctor so please don’t rely on my opinion

[Blackcosmo]

As soon as the fetus is given a soul. That's when it starts life.

[KelleyNice]

When the mother was a fetus and her eggs were being created.

[SamIam96]

There's an elegance to your argument. We should value each one as if it were a VIP having a heart attack. Keep it viable at all cost. Ambulance transportation to an ICU.

[John_Doesnt]

Abortions for all!

Vote for Kang

[cute_short_nerd]

Fax I hate kids fr I wish I was aborted. Killing babies is pretty metal if you think about it 🤟

[saffoler]

When the DNA from the sperm fuses with the DNA from the egg.

[imjustadude]

In my balls. Women, please come help me give all my babies a chance.

[TommyMountainFigure]

I don't care what anyone else says.. there is a reason it is called your 'birthday'

[BeMuse]

A single cell is alive. If it has human DNA, then it is human life...

[Guanfei]

I'd tend to say when it's viable. At the moment a baby can survive outside on his own, he might be considered as a person, not just a "clump of cells".

[Slartybartfast]

A religious question that shouldn't be answered by politicians and governments.

[Cubus]

I believe it begins at conception, because fertilised egg already have a different DNA than mother.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

When it is born. A fetus is not born and it's a fact pro lifes like to ignore but still continues to push their beliefs into the law book and make laws for abortion anyways.

[goaded]

Conception. But it's not a person yet, not for quite a long time.

[zagor]

If you mean intelligent life, I'm afraid we're still waiting...

[cute_short_nerd]

Same.

[MountAverage]

The whole idea of there being a certain point when life begins is completely absurd.

[888theGreat]

sperm in egg and a soul is created and God knows how old that person will live, job, and everything this person will do good and bad.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Right at conception. A human spirit is there already.

[cute_short_nerd]

Killing babies? Pretty metal fr if you think about it

[JohnK123]

Well it should be conception because it is potential life… even if it dies…

[driven159]

life begins when you feel it does it's a personal choice

[GrapeApe98]

The moment you EXIT the womb. Pro-choice forever, baby!

[1ukazzz]

Does it really matter when it starts. I would be more worried where and when it ends.

[exitseven]

I have heard the life begins at 40.

[purplepoppy]

At around 3 years old.

[Stoner710]

At conception as soon as sperm meet egg

[Smashingdoozy]

Literally doesn't matter

[Whatever2929292]

Well... it kind of does.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 nope. Doesn't at all. Not in this context

[Whatever2929292]

Well why would you want to take a human life? If someone is living?

[Whatever2929292]

You are living and your life matters. Right?

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 this is obviously talking about when life begins because of the roe v Wade overturning. In cases of abortion when "life" begins does not matter and should never matter. Abortion isn't murder.

[Whatever2929292]

So Roe V Wade is gone now... Lets put that aside. How if you don't care if it is a life or not... But then say it isn't murder. Just don't have sex or use protection... Simple

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 not that simple unfortunately protection fails. It did for me which put my life at risk. Taking away the right to abortion causes far more issues than people realize.

[Whatever2929292]

You chose to have sex not me. Abortion if it is to save the life of the mother and the child will die anyways. That is a hard decision that is NOT taken lightly. Which is the only case for abortion.

[Whatever2929292]

I have seen your questions and answers... You don't make good life choices and put your own life in danger. If you stopped living that lifestyle and looked for a meaningful relationship that isn't just sex... Maybe you would have something that makes you happy for once. Not just using people for sex.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 you don't know my life at all. I've never been in a relationship for just sex.

But tell me, as a supposed expert in this at what point is a womans life in danger because of a pregnancy? Its interesting because not even a certified obgyn who deals with this type of situation could tell you the definite point of when the mothers life is in danger. But apparently you an average person with I assume no degree in any medical field could.

When abortions were illegal 50 so years ago a woman would bleed for 40 hrs plus, in agony (if they were lucky to make it that far) while Drs and hospital boards decided if her life was worth saving. They would speak to her family, and her existing children to determine this. If she had existing children then she would have a higher chance of being saved. Because apparently woman are only useful for breeding and raising children.

[Whatever2929292]

In rare cases to save the life of the mother. Again not a lightly taken decision but the mother either. I don't know about your life but I have read plenty of your garbage. I even had you blocked at one point but decided that I was being a little harsh and that you did have plenty of legitimate questions, answers, comments, mytakes, etc.

But we aren't even talking about that we are talking the 99 percent of abortions that are NOT this type of case.

[Whatever2929292]

If we left medical reasons open... Would that make you happy? Most places that banned them have left this a option in those rare cases

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 did you not read what I just said.
A CERTIFIED OBGYN can not even tell you when the mother's life is at risk. Doctors will put off any treatment for as long as they possibly can, they will have to get approval to perform the abortion. Many people will die because they weren't performed quick enough. All because the doctors will be terrified of getting prosecuted.

Either way this will not stop abortions from happening. It never has and it never will. Abortion rates will more or less stay the same, but more people will die.

[Whatever2929292]

Again... Then how would the woman know she needs a abortion? I said lets make that a exeption. Not just oh my child has downs syndrome... Not oh I spread my legs to every Tom Dick and Harry... Not oh I did not use protection...

Things like that

[Whatever2929292]

If someone does a abortion on themselves... That could kill them and that is retarded as well as land them in jail.

If you cared so much about lives of women number one you would not want women killed before the are born and two would not recommend unsafe abortion methods

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 I didn't know I was pregnant. I started feeling a pain, mild for a few days, I figured it was my period coming, was expecting a bad one. I started bleeding, A little more than normal but nothing crazy. Then I woke up one day in excruciating pain, blood everywhere. Like I literally had to buy a new mattress. But this has happened to me before, I though in agony slowly made my way to the emergency room to get myself on some medicine that will help the pain and stop my period. Done it a couple times before, I know how it goes. I get in they ask about my pain I say its about a 9/10. Say what I thinks happening because again it's happened before. They decided to do an ultrasound anyway. I was rushed into surgery right away, being told that I was pregnant but it was ectopic and my tube had burst. I would have died had I taken my time any more. Had they not done the ultrasound.

You don't know you need an abortion in a medical situation until a Dr tells you.

I don't recommend unsafe abortion methods. But I can't stop them from happening. People will perform them, because having a child is a traumatic experience and a huge responsibility. If you think people are irresponsible for having sex then why the fuck would you want them to raise a child?

[Whatever2929292]

I can't stop someone from killing someone... But I can advise against it. Don't make it right.

I am really sorry for what you have gone through. That is horrible.

But this is not most abortions most are convenience and many admit it. If you have seen the demonically possessed people at abortion rallies you will see what I mean.

If you want to get into personal details if you feel more comfortable direct messaging me feel free. But that does not mean I will agree with abortion either. I can listen to you and understand some of the stuff you have been through.

But again... A case like that where you never knew you were pregnant.. There is not much you can do.

[Whatever2929292]

I don't just want to pass judgment on you over something like that. I think abortion is wrong in 99 percent of cases.

[Whatever2929292]

Getting a abortion is also VERY traumatic to MANY! Having a child is better then having to give a stillbirth. As I said choice to have sex... You don't magically wake up being pregnant. I am not passing judgment on you but that is how it works for them.

There are people really fucked up from abortions

[Whatever2929292]

As well as the killing of a child I am sorry... Is WORSE!!! Which as you say you don't even think it matters if they are alive or not which is kind of sad

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 I really don't think you understand and apparently no amount of explaining will make you understand. It doesn't matter what the reason for abortion is, people should be allowed access to healthcare no matter what. There is absolutely no medical procedure that the government has laws about over a man's body. Absolutely 0. That isn't fair. This is a step back in equality and many many things can now be undone because of it. Including but not limited to , gay marriage and interracial relationships. This is a slap in your face too, they've just told you that you have absolutely no right to privacy, medical or otherwise. It's a slippery slope to everyone's rights being taken away, everyone who isn't a rich white old man that is. Because you know that the people who voted for this have paid for and forced their mistresses and even wives to have abortions right? And you know they will always have access to them.

[Whatever2929292]

I don't think that at all. What if a mother did not want a male child or a female child? What right up until birth? That is wrong.

It is wrong to only use abortion as convenience and I knew there is no compromising with most of you. You want abortion on demand for any or no reason at all.

There are options like getting tubes tied. Like the pill. Like condoms. Like adoption.

Most abortions are convenience. You also must support fathers leaving their children and the mother of their child/children for the same reasons. That he wants to focus on his career or does not have the money or the time.

You were really going with a good reason and then backtracked and made the point again. Which is sad

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 you thankfully never have to be in that position. An abortion isn't convenient. It's hard on the body. Nobody uses it in replacement to birth control. That's a lie the right spread. Nobody gets an abortion up until birth either (except in medically necessary situations). My point was there is no clear definition of when life begins, it is up to the individual. If I had a viable pregnancy and for some reason didn't know until mid second trimester, I would probably continue it and go through adoption. Someone else may not and that is perfectly okay because that is their choice.

[Smashingdoozy]

If you can't take organs from people dead or alive without consent then you shouldn't be able to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term.

[Whatever2929292]

I am saying there are other options and most abortions are preventable. Not having sex. Protection. Adoption... Also abortions can be really traumatizing

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 of course there are other options. Banning abortions doesn't make those options more accessible though. Out of all the things they could do to actually reduce abortion rates, that is actually backed by evidence and statistics they chose the one thing that won't reduce them at all.

Most abortions are because of failed contraception. Those that aren't probably don't have easy access to contraception.

Adoption is absolutely an option, if you are white and your baby is a girl. Poc babies and baby boys are less likely to be adopted. The babies who don't get matched with a family Ultimately end up in foster care. I grew up in foster care. It's not a good time and is incredibly traumatizing to know that not only do your birth parents not want you but neither does anyone else.

[Whatever2929292]

So I agree that things maybe should be done to make those things more accessible. I am not saying that women in hard times don't matter. I am not saying that at all.

I am saying that abortion is the wrong answer. But despite adoption statistics at least those children have a chance. I agree changes might need to be made there too. But that isn't the issue. It is better then nothing

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 the adoption and foster care system should be fixed before potentially putting more strain on them. Adding more stress to the system is only going to make the system worse.

[Whatever2929292]

You're right it should be fixed. But at least with the system they have a chance to live. I think it's better then nothing

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 being abused and moved from home to home to home then aging out of the system with nothing and having the cycle of poverty repeat with your kids isn't living. We don't let animals live with such low standards.

[Whatever2929292]

I agree that sucks. But it is better then dying. At least they grow up and have a chance.

[Whatever2929292]

I mean... lets say for argument sake we have a two year old. Two options kill the 2 year old or put the 2 year old into the fostercare system? That is where I am at between abortion and adoption.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Whatever2929292 literally not the same thing. Most abortions are performed before a fetus is even viable or has brain function.

[ChrisMaster69]

@Whatever2929292 you really need to live in the real world.

It does not matter when it does, what matter most is the outcome if the foetus develops and is born.

There are a lot of tests, scans etc carried out during a pregnancy, if certain things are found then the mother is informed and has the option to abort early on.

If for what ever reason they do not, then there is a high chance (as the doctors will have advised) of a Neonatal death, a death within 28 days of birth. www.marchofdimes.org/.../neonatal-death.aspx

Have you had to deal with a young woman who has lost her baby?

It’s horrendous.

By giving a woman the option for an abortion, it reduces, does not prevent this anguish and mental trauma.

If a doctor informed a woman her baby would be born but not live beyond 28 days due to severe issues detected during tests, would you let her go through with the pregnancy, knowing how much mental harm you will be doing to the mother?

[Whatever2929292]

Then... Why don't we ban abortion after the second or at least the third trimester? What about meet halfway.

[Whatever2929292]

Would that be ok with you? I am still not ok with any abortion unless to save the life of the mother or if a mother has already miscarried and needs medical care. But at least we could say no abortions after the second or third trimester

[Whatever2929292]

@ChrisMaster69 you're right women who loose their children is horrible. Abortion is killing the child and many women live with regret the rest of their life. A miscarriage, still birth, among other things are horrible!

Which is my point. IF it is bad enough for a woman to loose her child. What makes willfully killing her child any better?

[Whatever2929292]

Most abortions are also elective. Either a woman is sleeping around. Or she just don't want anymore children and just does not want to either raise another child or put the child up for adoption.

[ChrisMaster69]

@Whatever2929292 not being able to feed your child, not being able to care for it, your other children going hungry with that extra mouth (or mouths).

Watching that child in pain knowing they will live in pain for all their short life.

There are a lot of things worse than death.

Yes most are planned, as if a doctor has diagnosed severe complications but not life threatening, then guess what, they get planned in to the overall process.

See there you go with that Incel bollox, “oh she’s sleeping around”, How about she’s in a steady relationship and oral contraceptive failed which it does, but no you instantly come out with Incel shit 🤦

Again real world, when you live in poverty and are struggling to pay for food and heating etc, another mouth basically means less food all around, extra money on bills including energy.

Also it’s not a child at that point in time.

There is a level of hypocrisy with a lot of the pro life, they only value that foetus until it is born, then that’s it, how much of a nightmare that life is does not concern them.
By rights those states such as Oklahoma should be increasing taxing to cover care and support, especially things like Neonatal, care homes and free medical support for cases where the mother would have aborted due to severe medical issues but state said no and there is full through life medical care required, the mother, family should not pick up medical insurance costs, the state should.

[Whatever2929292]

@ChrisMaster69 at least the child has a chance to live. The child could be put into foster care. As well as resources out there like you said we could work on getting things to support these women and the children.

That is a problem a lot of men... run off and leave the woman with a child. Which is disgusting. But a woman's easy way out is abortion...

The woman and the man both made a choice to create a child together. Then does not want to be a adult and take responsibility.

Would you be for killing children in poverty to help them? No. Then why if a child is living or you don't care if they are living or not... Why is it fine to kill them?

[Whatever2929292]

If killing your child was legal... Trust me people would defend it

[ChrisMaster69]

@Whatever2929292 again you don’t live in the real world and come over a tad privileged, with little knowledge of how it is with care system, poverty, etc.

End of discussion.

[Whatever2929292]

@ChrisMaster69 its so funny that you're wrong. You don't know my life. People make their OWN choices. IF they don't want children then don't have sex

END OF DISCCUSSION! See you say all this bullshit... then when I agree with it you go back and rebut what you said.

So what ever happened to giving other resources to women and children? What happened to that?

[Whatever2929292]

@ChrisMaster69 I don't live in the "real world". Where the fuck am I from? MARS? You don't know much money that I make. I don't want to raise a child right now so I am not sleeping around.

[NamerOfStars]

At about 3 PM on Wednesday.

[Whatever2929292]

Concepcion in my opinion

[Pinay_ako]

When there’s a heartbeat

[DS_Madking]

when the egg is seeded or tf its said in English

[jahaims]

As soon as she is pregnant

[Anonymous]

When my nut goes into the egg

[OddBeMe]

Whats the point of a birthday, then?

[lofii]

When the sperm enters the egg

[lpoots]

is a single cell life

[MrHopper]

At ejaculation

[Anonymous]

When there's a soul assigned to the fetus.

[Iron_Man]

The first heartbeat

[Chris2769]

First heart beat?

[Guardian45]

When a baby is born.