Would you agree to give men reproductive rights if you could then reinstate abortion?

[msc545]

In other words, men have the right to NOT be fathers, have the right to STOP an abortion, and have the right to EQUAL CUSTODY of their children in a divorce.

Part of why Roe got overturned had to do with the systematic denial of men's reproductive rights. A denial of rights for some is ultimately a denial of rights for all.

Nope. Men should have no reproductive rights! I will continue to give up abortion.

Ok, lets give men their rights - I want to be able to abort!

[Anonymous]

Men don’t have to pay child support if they don’t sign the birth certificate. At least that’s how it works in my country. A lot of men get out of paying child support and the government pays it instead. I don’t know if it works the same way in the US but here a guy can easily refuse to sign the birth certificate. Both mine and my brothers dads wanted nothing to do with us so they refused to sign our birth certificates so they never had to pay child support.

[msc545]

It absolutely does NOT work like this in the US - men are forced to pay child support under the pain of judicial punishment including imprisonment.

[Opinion Owner]

In my opinion, women should be allowed abortions whenever they want one and men should have the option to pay child support if he never wanted the baby and the woman chooses to keep it. If that makes sense.

[Opinion Owner]

*the option to not pay child support. But in that case the government should step in and help with payments for the child. Like how it is here. If the father refuses to pay child support here then our government provides it until the child is 16.

[msc545]

I think you mean "men should have the option to NOT pay child support" and if that is what you meant, that is what I meant - although - presently - women get away with not paying child support routinely, and yet can still enforce their rights to have contact with the child and partial custody including visits. Men do NOT get away with this.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah that’s what I meant. I just think there needs to be a fair conclusion. I absolutely believe in women having access to abortions for whatever reason they choose to have one. But I also believe that men shouldn’t have to provide for a child that he didn’t want if the woman chooses to keep it. It’s the fair equivalent.

[msc545]

Thank you. A lot of why men are not up in arms over women having trouble getting abortions now is because we have been denied our rights for so long and women won't support us getting them.

[Opinion Owner]

I absolutely support it, I think it’s only fair that if a woman gets to choose whether she wants to keep or terminate the fetus (which she has every right to) then a man should have every right to decide whether he wants to be a part of a child’s life he never wanted. It’s more damaging for a kid to grow up with a parent knowing that they weren’t wanted and I genuinely believe it’s better to step back than force that relationship. I know that people argue that people shouldn’t be having sex if they don’t want kids but contraception fails and people want to have sex for pleasure.

[Opinion Owner]

My father never wanted me and I can say I am much happier having grown up without him. I feel like I would’ve had a much more damaging childhood if he had been a part of my life because kids can sense things, you know? I wouldn’t want to grow up knowing that he was forced to bond with me, it would’ve made me a lot more miserable. And I can say that I wouldn’t want to raise a child with a man that wanted nothing to do with it, it just creates for a tense environment. If a woman chooses to keep a baby the man didn’t want then he should have every right to step back without consequence. But on that note the women should have the right to abortion. I feel like I’m rambling but I hope it makes sense.

[msc545]

Your father may not have wanted you because he couldn't afford the child support, or because he wasn't sure he was actually your father (this happens a lot in the US).

[Opinion Owner]

It was definitely him who was my father, he just wasn’t the nicest of men. An abusive man to put it lightly 😅

[msc545]

I am sorry to hear that. Take care.

[Opinion Owner]

It’s okay, and thank you! You too

[Dohbeieirjen]

Abortion is murder

[Anonymous]

The stopping abortion part is a bit far.

What I would say is that there definitely needs to be more methods for men to birth control aside from condoms and vasectomy. Like a pill maybe.

[Jamie05rhs]

No; because it's not about the mother's rights OR the father's rights. It's about the BABY's rights! That's the whole point.

[Jamie05rhs]

Thanks for the MHO.

[LazerBean]

As long as "reproductive rights" incompasses killing babies I'm not going to support them, regardless of gender.

[Anonymous]

What would be the point of allowing women to have the option of abortion if someone else can come along and prevent it? Isn’t that essentially giving him more say over her body then she has for herself?
Do women really need to hand over some aspects of control over her bodily autonomy in order for them to have more control elsewhere?
And why do you not believe that bodily autonomy should be included in your statement “A denial of rights for some is ultimately a denial of rights for all.”?
Unless…. do you believe people don’t have a right to bodily autonomy?

[msc545]

Your body belongs to you, but the body inside you does not belong to you. You are not entitled to harm it.

[Opinion Owner]

This body that is living inside my body is feeding off of it. It’s taking my vitamins and nutrients for itself. The end will result in one of the most traumatic events my body will ever endure. An event that your body will never to be forced to endure I might add, and you don’t believe I should have any say in that?
You still didn’t answer any of the questions I asked with that reply.
One last question, if you plan on actually answering any of them. Would you agree to the deal you proposed?

[msc545]

Eat more, and yes, I would agree to that deal even if you are a murderer

[Opinion Owner]

So what you’re saying is you’re not really all that opposed murder as long as you can get something out of the deal for yourself? Nice 👍

[msc545]

I'm probably willing to let you do that to avoid being enslaved by you.

[msc545]

Read what I wrote

[Opinion Owner]

I did
You are willing to negotiate something you call murder.
Why did you delete that comment?

[msc545]

I deleted nothing. You are willing to commit murder so perhaps we are both guilty. I don't want to be your wage slave or support your shitty unilateral decisions.

[Opinion Owner]

I apologize. The comment I was referring to actually said you would cheat, not leave. But that’s just as relationship destroying as leaving, so my point remains.

[msc545]

We are far afield from my original question here. What I proposed in that question, obviously as a hypothetical, would be beneficial to all men in that women would no longer be able to take financial advantage of us via child support for children we didn't agree to have, or, even worse, for children we didn't even father but that women lied about as to paternity, which happens a lot, sadly.

[NathanDavis]

would not be a good idea to guarantee custody after a divorce... if the father was abusive, or the mother...

[msc545]

I am not talking about guaranteeing custody to anyone, just giving the father an equal chance which they definitely do not have now.

[NathanDavis]

that is just false...

I know a few men that have equal or full custody of their children

so you clearly are using a false, blank statement in here

[msc545]

Just because you know a few men who have custody of their child that is not indicative of the larger picture. I used to be a child custody evaluator and I have seen far more cases of women getting children, but even that is too small a sample. Try looking at some statistics.

[NathanDavis]

just because you worked at one city, one state or one country... that is not an indicator of the whole world wide matters on these issues

statistics mean nothing when you have a bias...

[msc545]

I mentioned my own experience which is a lot more than yours as an example to indicate that neither of our personal experiences counts. You twisted what I said to make your "point". You then decided that "bias" trump statistics. Look at the data yourself and report it accurately.

[Guy13]

This sounds like an upcoming Trend. And likely to be pushed by the Feminist and/or those supporting Anarchy and/or Anti-God and Absolute Truth🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

[SecretsofKB]

When men are the ones to carry the child to term, they can have all the reproductive rights they want.

[msc545]

when women are actually forced to pay child support, they can keep on denying men's rights.

[SecretsofKB]

When men take 9 months of their lives and deal with all of the physiological and mental stresses and changes involved with a single pregnancy, then you can come talk to me about men having any say in an abortion.

[msc545]

I should have phased that like this - "a man should be able to stop an abortion if he is willing to assume sole care of a child after it is born" - your melodrama notwithstanding.

[SecretsofKB]

He can have that choice when he is able to carry the baby until it's born instead of the woman.

Melodrama... truth... it's semantics.

[msc545]

The fact that you might be able to carry a baby to term does not confer any special rights or privileges on you despite your obtuse insistence that it does. It's just biology, not a superpower or godhood.

[SecretsofKB]

It's not a superpower or a godhood, but it's a burden to those that don't want it.

[msc545]

Too bad. Stop having sex.

[Anonymous]

You have the right to wear a condom. If you want to prevent pregnancy, assume responsibility and do something about it.

Yon don't like to have sex with condoms? Or sacrificing your pleasure/sensitivity? Wah!

[msc545]

You missed the point.

[msc545]

You have trouble understanding the concept of hypotheticals, apparently.

[msc545]

Only your pleasure and sensitivity count, is that it? Typical feminist.

[msc545]

You would whine and bitch and scream if men suggested anything that away your sexual pleasure. What makes you think you can do the to us?

[crossdressingrihno]

Sounds pretty reasonable