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1. No such ban is in play if you are speaking about the Supreme Court rescinding Roe vs way. It simply gives each state back the power to set thier own regulations or laws.
2. Straw man argument. 10 isn’t likely fertile, if there are examples of such thing, then it’s probably super rare, but it’s probably not about that, the rape or incest argument means nothing if the next stament isn’t “but only then,”. Meaning using that as a excuse fir open unrestricted termination means it not about that,
3. Even most religions will put the mothers health first, if it’s a 10yr old the likelihood that she could safely Cary such to term is not likely and so it’s a medical decision not a choice of convenience.
4. The other outlier arguments of grape ir incest, is debatable as to ethics, but it’s not the babies fault. There is a opposite straw man argument that has occurred. I know of two female teachers that raped male students. One was 13, and the other 14. Both teachers where convicted of statutory rape, or sexual interference of a minor. (Rape) these 2 women became pregnant from thier pedophelia and kept the babies. Should those kids not have a say about weather they, as victims of rape, be allowed to force the abortion on thier rapists? Is rape babies only bad if the female is the victim?
Furthermore, both of these women waited until their victims turned 18 ans sued for child support and WON! Now both these examples are straw men arguments but flip the sexes. If a male teacher has impregnated a child student, and because it’s not the babies fault they keep the baby. Should the fathers be aloud visitation rights! Partial custody? Move it away from it being minors, say a teacher impregnated a 18 yr old student by force, if she keeps it should he get visitation rights?
Or is the argument not that it was a female minor but how it was conceived? If it’s because of the fact that the baby is a result of statutory rape then it’s irrelevant who was the minor victim, a boy or a girl. Both should be treated the same. If not, I has nothing to do with age so the 10 yr old example is Bs
Straw man argument? Wth are you talking about? Whom are you replying? i just post a random video link about the topic to not summarize everything? Are you talking about the video
🤡 kids got their period earlier unlike their parents I know enough girls who had period at 9 who are 20 something now. The rest of your arguments are whataboutism that has nothing to with my question. I seriously dont understand whom you are replying since you try to debunk some arguments by me (?)(-even though i did not make any argument-) or the posts under my question?
Oh are you talking about the video?
I realized that after I posted it, I thought it was a hypothetical for the current discussion of America abortion issues, I had no idea it was a true story. I tried to delete it but you can’t.. so yup. I’m a A-hole and deserve to be chastised.
Obviously horrible, as a parent I would go to another country if needed. Whatever is needed to get my daughter the help she needs.
As for proving rape: She's 10, she is unable to give consent, so that's easy to prove.
These are the current abortion laws in some of the more liberal states in the United States:
Massachusetts currently allows abortions into the 24th week.
New York currently allows abortions into the 24th week.
California currently allows abortions up to between the 24th and 26th week.
Illinois currently allows abortions up to between the 24th and 28th week.
Oregon currently allows abortions beyond the 27 week (see below).
New Jersey currently has NO LIMIT on abortions (see below).
abortionclinics.org/.../
www.northjersey.com/.../
@NYCQuestions1976 And what will happen when Republicans introduce a federal law banning abortion?
@NYCQuestions1976 You've spent the last three days avoiding answering the question. Why? What will happen when Republicans introduce a federal law banning abortion?
@NYCQuestions1976 Nope, you've spent the last three days avoiding giving an answer to that question, but fine, quote it here, and I'll stop asking it.
@NYCQuestions1976 You've spent the last four days avoiding answering the question. Why? What will happen when Republicans introduce a federal law banning abortion?
@NYCQuestions1976 At least you're being honest about wanting the world of 1984. You erase history every time you ignore the question: what will happen when Republicans introduce a federal law banning abortion?
@zagor Are you really sure the Republicans wouldn't pass such a bill?
Not that big a deal. You have to go somewhere, whether blocks or miles. Just travel a little further to a state that allows it. Since she is not legally competent to consent, it is easy to prove rape when the girl is 10 years old because all it takes is DNA evidence
The update is on the false question. Of course her pregnancy is enough evidence due to Statutory rape laws. But it is a big deal. This is like saying people who are in miserable countries should go to another countries if you they dont like their shitty laws. So bs
If you don't know the difference between driving to another neighborhood, city, or state and going to another country, I can't help you.
State and country is the same shit. I also can't help, if dont know that that. I imagine it like european countries. Cities of a state usually have same laws and this why your comparison with city and a state dont make sense.
... I also can't help, if you dont know that.
... does not make sense***
Even it is like you think, it is still terrible
Whatever you dont have to agree with me. We can agree to disagree
I was thinking the lower 48 states. It might be a problem if you live is a different country or perhaps Alaska if they ban abortions. If you live in the lower 48 states, the amount of time it takes to drive to another state is insignificant compared to the amount of time it takes to arrange and get an abortion. And, the cost of travel is insignificant compared to cost of an abortion. As far as I am concerned, you are ignoring the mountain just to give all your attention to a mole hill.
This is ridiculous. So if rape become legal in you state, you move to another state? This is how you solve problems by running away insteas of fighting for your rights and critizising the government?
You ignore important point
So if rape became legal in your state, you would move to another state? ***
In any event, the question stating she was unable to get an abortion is lie because she did an abortion.
So much ignorance in these answers.
Which answeres?
The rapist was an illegal immigrant too... build the wall yet?
... and you don't have a response to it because you've chosen political sides? Pro kill babies but keep those illegals, they're humans too?
How do you feel about illegal immigrants laying the rape down on 10 year old girls?
1) I haven’t chosen political sides at all, and in fact have not mentioned any political parties names
2) I never said anything about killing babies, nor anything about my views on illegal immigrants
I have a response to your question, but it’s much easier to let your own ignorance present itself through your presumptions and arrogance.
Right... and you know she was able to get an abortion in her state and that it was just politicized for some news? Oh, I'm just so ignorant though. Like how you still dodged the illegal immigration question by the way... I guess I'm just too ignorant to understand you don't have any opinion other than needing to abort babies... even when the story is partly manufactured by media.
I'm pro-abortion by the way... I say kill those babies. I'm just trying to point out how you just fall for propaganda media lines like they were spoon-fed to you. Yeah but I'm just too ignorant to see your genius, I guess. So... build a wall or not?
You responded to questions like I said something about you directly. Why is that? Not a single question got answered though... dodge any question at all costs I guess?
And yet, again:
1) I never expressed my views on if she could or could not travel, nor stated anything about the case outside of the observation that people were defending the rapist instead of addressing the basic issue that a child was raped.
2) I never mentioned any media source, nor again, anything outside of the basic premise that: A child was raped.
3) You can call me ignorant all you like, but I’m not the one trying to force words into another’s mouth to substitute an argument for my position.
Now, once more: I have a response to your question, but it’s much easier to let your own ignorance present itself through your presumptions and arrogance.
I never said you were ignorant... I only pointed out you were calling me that. Even though I only pointed out facts and asked questions. YOU DID say that about me though. I only agreed and said that maybe I am just too ignorant for such a genius. So guilty as charged if you say I called you a genius.
“I never called you ignorant, I just said that you were overly susceptible to media biases and weren’t aware of the actual circumstances surrounding a case…”
If you want to play that game though: I never called you ignorant, I just said that your ignorance was showing 🥴
Either way, thank you for calling me a genius. I will be moving on with my night now.
Gaslighting on the way as you bow out. It's right there in writing that you were calling me ignorant... in fact, your initial statement towards the general public is they're all ignorant.
The rapist was an illegal immigrant... stated fact. Be offended all you like. Build a wall yet? lolz That question makes you run like a cockroach when the lights get turned on.
@D_Bone_Steak build a wall over Illinois?
@John_Doesnt At the border before 3 illegal Guatemalans make it as far as Ohio or Illinois. Remember the 'rapist' was living with them and the girl's Mother may not even be her real mother, because Illegals tend to do that (grab up a kid) to improve their chances of getting on the other side of the border... and the guy (Fuentes) also has the 'mother' pregnant as well. That's the type of shit going right through Mexico and getting straight to Ohio and then jumping states to get an abortion. Why Ohio... Columbus is a sanctuary city, that doesn't enforce immigration laws. I'm just saying, maybe, just maybe, stopping that stuff at the border was probably one of Trump's better ideas? Just maybe?
Opinion
45Opinion
While in this rare in horrible case, And every single state she would be allowed to get an abortion because 10--year-olds can’t get birth without being put at risk of death with few exceptions like Catholics everyone agrees flight is at risk you have the right to an abortion, the ten year old who was raped life was at Risk because ten years can’t give birth without there life being at serious risk.
in normal rape cases yeah the woman should be forced to carry the child to term because how do we know that she’s not making up a rape case just to get an abortion? I understand it’s a hard pill to swallow I understand that a grave injustice has been done and the rapist should be physically castrated or killed. But because women are humans and humans lie I can’t trust that a women who willingly has sex with a Radom guy and then claims rape because she got pregnant isn’t lying about being raped. Obviously if she comes for the night she is raped and he’s happily traumatized and they can get DNA evidence right off the bat that’s a different story but unfortunately you can’t claim rape when you figure out that you’re a month pregnant just to get an abortion because know that you’re not lying.
(it’s like I’m cleaning about the English language we need to start using the word you in contacts like this I’m not accusing you of anything but it’s a word we use for people in general we need to go back to using the word one)
@UCrayCray if there coming forward 2-3 months later yes. by the way if not that I don’t trust only women I don’t trust guys either. Humans in general aren’t trust worth as a species. I have more faith walking into a pride of lions that they would kill and eat me then I do humans to tell the truth I have 0 faith in humans.
Now that being said women who come forward the night there raped and can get a DNA test of the guy who raped her sure allow her to get an abortion.
I have sympathy for rape victims don’t get me wrong I want rape victims to come forced the night it happened so we can be sure we’re getting the right guy. My position on what we do to rapist is they should either be castrated or killed. Think if a women lies about being raped 3 months later when she willingly slept with a guy and we castrated or killed them and they were innocent then we killed someone who hasn’t done anything. This is why I want women who are raped to come forward so we can get a DNA test to destroy the rapist
How about if somebody rapes you and they FORCE YOU to have the kid?
@FunkyMonkee well I’m a dude so that’s not gonna help happen, so that a stupid argument. If I was a chick and I was raped I would go to the police that night so they could get a DNA test and find the rapist the execute the rapist
Again. You seems to want to make laws based on how you feel about people. Thankfully, the law making doesn’t depend on your feels.
I do find it amusing how you claim to know what you would do as a female living in a female body when you absolutely no clue what it’s like. Rape isn’t always as cut and dry as a man forcing his penis inside an unwilling victim. But I don’t expect you to understand that because you don’t live in a world where the threat of rape and pregnancy is real for you.
Just try to remember that when posting all this bullshit of all the things you would do, if you were a woman in that situation. 🙄
DUUUUUH! NO SHIT, SHERLOCK!! THAT'S why you have to put yourself into HER shoes!! You DO have an imagination, don't you? Imagine you're a girl, you just got raped and found out you got pregnant from it. You try to get an abortion and they tell you you HAVE to keep the baby full term because we don''t trust you that you were actually raped!
@UCrayCray you gotta understand if rapist are castrated or killed like they should be wouldn’t you want to make sure your getting an actual rapist and not a guy who have sex with a willing women. If she then come forward and claims rape 2 months later because she got pregnant from a 1 night stand and claimed rape we would have no choice but to castrate or kill the person who willingly had sex with her
How does forcing her to have the baby punish ANYONE but her?/
@Stoner710.
Or…. we could just leave abortion between a woman and her doctor. That way, none of what you imagined here would become a reality.
Women would get true ownership over their uteruses, and men will get to keep their penises.
Win-Win
@UCrayCray @UCrayCray what about the child’s life? What about the right to life? I thought we had equal protection under the law? The baby is a separate being from the mother. Unless your saying mothers while pregnant have 20 fingers 20 toes 2 vagina’s if the baby is female or a penis if the baby is male. The baby has its own DNA structure and blood type. It has its own pain receptacles. Etc. So no we should go back to abortion.
That being said, even if I wanted abortion illegal on the federal level it’s impossible for them to do anything with abortion even we have the tenth amendment The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. That’s the most the constitution would has on abortion. If a right wasn’t delegated by the constitution as a right it’s up to the states to decide on abortion. (Same thing frankly with gay marriage homosexual sex and birth control if a state wants to prevent someone from getting birth control in Alameda that is Alabama’s right to prevent birth control being sold in Alabama)
The way your suppose to interpret the constitution is as it was written when it was written, a constitutional amendment must interpreted as it was interpret it at the time it was written. It’s a dead document until congress acts to amend the constitution. Until the vote to change the constitution is had its dead. Since the 14th amendment was written in 1866 you must interpret the 14th amendment as it was written what it meant in 1866. 2nd amendment says we have the right to bar arms this means is the citizens as allowed to have the same weapons as the government regardless of level of technology there is no such thing as a common sense gun law that the constitution recognizes.
In order for the “child” to have equal protection under the law, the woman must give up hers. Nobody is allowed to physically connect to your body in an effort to keep themselves alive. They do not have any right whatsoever to use your organs to sustain their lives without your expressed and continued permission. See, I believe the protection, when in conflict like we see here, defaults to the owner of the body that takes the risk of sustaining and growing the other. I do not believe a newly fertilized egg takes precedence. Sorry
Are you really okay with the states telling you you cannot use birth control? What if they decided you couldn’t have Viarga? Or a vasectomy? You are okay with the government making that choice for you? That’s pretty disgusting. Government shouldn’t have any say in your medical choices. It’s amazing that you think they should.
The fact that the constitution supports “citizens as allowed to have the same weapons as the government regardless of level of technology” is proof that it’s time to rethink what it says.
@UCrayCray I’m uncomfortable the federal government telling states what to do. States yes I’m comfortable with states telling there citizens what to do. If I was living in Texas and they said I don’t have a right to purchase condoms that’s fine that there right as a state. If California wants to allow people to get condoms that’s there right. The federal government is suppose to be very limited in its power. Now I’m down for going back to the articles of confederation of 1776 which made the federal government so powerless they couldn’t even collect taxes from the state. I doubt you’ve ever read the federalist paper v the anti federalist papers. (Most people in the United States haven’t read them) but this is why the anti federalist were afraid of adopting the constitution it’s self because they figured the federal government would just take more and more power from the states which it has essentially over the course of the 20th century really starting with TR forward. If you don’t like the laws of Texas move to a state where you do like the laws.
Was the original idea of the federalist. You can’t rethink what the constitution says without abandoning the constitution all together. That of course would end up in 50 separate countries. Texas has been regarding they joined the union at all and over state will fallow Texas example.
Now of course by having sex you are giving the baby permission to be in your body. The consequences of sex is pregnancy, currently of course we can use birth control so use birth control. Put the child up for adoption there are may options for women have to prevent pregnancy this isn’t china where they are forcing women for have kids. All pro-lifers are saying is you don’t get to kill an unborn child. We of course except the potential death of the mother to have an abortion like in this case of a 10 year old getting pregnant (by the way there now gonna sweep this one under the rug because the guy who raped this little girl was an illegal immigrant). Rape sure if the women comes forward the night it happens because we need to get an DNA test in order to put the rapist in prison castrate or execute him. I bought the child without it going on 2 to 3 months. Better to use plan B which police will give out for free In the case of rape.
No. Agreeing to sex IS NOT consent to being pregnant. Otherwise, stealthing wouldn’t be considered sexual assault. Having a child shouldn’t be a “consequence” of having sex. Are you kidding me? Is that really a pro-life position?
Adoption doesn’t prevent a women from having to endure pregnancy and childbirth, so it’s not really a viable option for those who don’t want to do that.
Since you are okay with rape victims aborting, your whining about “killing an unborn child” rings empty. Either you believe a newly fertilized egg is entitled to live, or you do not. Why do the circumstances around how she got pregnant make any difference?
And since it’s heartless to force a rape victim to give birth to her rapist baby, your position really puts you in a tough place to defend.
I know you think rape is much like having your purse stolen, right? You notice your purse is missing, you go to the police and report it. Rape is a little different. It’s not as clear cut as having a possession stolen. Many women question their own culpability, often blaming themselves for what happened. The trauma of it can take a long, long time to process and even talk about. And that doesn’t even cover women in situations where they are raped by family members/friends on a repeated basis. Of course, none of that is a consideration for you.
And what happens to the women who do report rape, but the guy claims consent was given? He said/she said. Should abortions be allowed in these situations?
Your ideas of what should happen shows how much contempt you really have for the female population, and it’s very, very sad.
@UCrayCray first off never heard of the word stealthing had to look it up, but yes that would be sexual assault and should be considered to be sexual assault by law.
Yes getting pregnant is the natural consequence of having sex that’s called biology. Pro lifers want one to get married and have sex with 1 person this goes for both men and women. Because getting pregnant is a natural consequence of having sex. Humans didn’t give humans this consequence millions of year of evolution blame evolution and biology for that one but that’s natural law.
We as pro lifers discourage hook up culture, this is why women saying the over turn of roe v wade is the death of hook up culture we pro lifers think good get marred have sex with your husband have kids and love a wonderful life. That has been American tradition and western tradition since the fall of the Roman Empire.
As someone who was adopted because the only reason my mom wanted me was to go on welfare adoption is a way better option then killing someone because your not ready to have kids, again if you don’t have to have a kid or even carry a child to birth don’t have sex. Really that simple.
Again in the case of rape I want women to come forward. There are pretty clear sighs when a women is raped they’re panicked there ashamed. As far as the girls who get raped by a family member or a friend abortion is a good way of covering up the evils of her rapist rape. Many fathers or abusive boyfriends have done this your actually making it easier for men to get away with rape. Your point about the guy coming in and lying is the same point I’m making about the woman coming in and lying.
I don’t trust humans in general. So we would have to assess the situation and determine where we go from there, there are many rape trauma therapist out there who have dealt with rape cases in the past they know if a women is lying or if a man is lying most of the time the man is lying, but we’ve seen with the Amber heard Jonny Depp trail that women will lie to benefit them. Same with Brett Kavanaugh hearings. There was a girl who claimed she was gang raped by a football team and turned out she was lying www.theroot.com/white-woman-who-falsely-accused-2-black-football-player-1828591038
With stories like this how do I know a women isn’t lying about being raped just to get an abortion. This is a mainstream pro life opinion.
@Stoner710
Yes, stealthing is considered sexual assault because consent to sex ISN’T consent for pregnancy, no matter how much you want it to be.
You’ll have to excuse me, but I’m of the mind that children should be wanted and loved. Not just the “consequence” of a bad choice.
I really don’t give a rats behind what the pro-life crowd want for MY life. They want marriage, they can get married. Don’t like hookup culture, don’t participate in it. Why is it that you don’t like something, so other people can’t do it. Should you be forced to eat a salad because I’m on a diet? I don’t imagine you’d like that very much.
“…you don’t have to have a kid or even carry a child to birth don’t have sex. Really that simple.” Yeah, I have seen this “advice” before. So to paraphrase, what you are telling women, and only women, is if you don’t want to subject yourself to the highest rate of maternal mortality in all develop countries, a rate we in the US currently enjoy, she must excluded herself from a relationship that includes the closeness and bonding that come with making love to your partner? She should simply deny herself this very important aspect of most relationships?
Would you marry a woman who only had sex to create children? What if she only wanted 1 child? Would you be okay in a sexless marriage if she decides to take your advice and not have any sex at all? I highly doubt you would. Telling OTHER people to not have sex is easy because it’s other people. But the reality is, it’s not that simple at all.
Cont…
@Stoner710
Always about what you want. You want rape victims to come forward right away. Well, I want rape victims not to exist. Sadly, we can’t always get what we want. We have to find ways to deal with what we have.
I’m glad you think that therapist are human lie detectors, but all you suggest takes time. All this assessing of the situation could take months, then what? Too bad, so sad, you’re too far along to abort now. Looks like you are giving birth to your rapist baby. Lucky girl. 🙄
You’re right. How do YOU know if the woman is lying or not. That’s the priority here after all, right? YOUR belief in her story? 🙄
How many rape babies need to be birthed in order to make YOU feel good about it all? Since it’s really all about YOU, your pro-life cohorts and what YOU guys want.
Everybody else be dammed.
@UCrayCray Ok so compromises in an option it seems like, The goal in rape cases is to make sure we’re not murdering an innocent baby by a women coming forward and lying. Again I think we should be putting to death rapist. You clearly think we should be executed the unborn child who has done nothing wrong. So now I have no choice but not stop compromising and say fuck it rape victim are going to have to carry the rapist child to term and then she will have the option of giving it up for adoption or motherhood. This is that stance most pro lifers will take after talking to people like you. Women Weill agree with me to, I know several women from the dailywire community who share the same option as I do, I was at least trying to give rape victims and out you won’t give it to them unless we completely legalize the murdering of the unborn. So rape victims you get to have your rapist kids you can give us a DNA test once the child is born and will go after the rapist and then giving him a death by firing squad. No more compromise and no more murdering the unborn. I don’t want to live in a country with people who think murdering unborn babies is the right thing to do
Lmao. You speak like you actually get to make the laws.
The majority of the American population support abortion, at least in the first term. So some may agree with you, but the majority do not.
All you want to do is impose your belief on others. As if you are in some righteous position to lord over those who disagree with you.
I believe women have a right to their own bodies. You believe in government mandatory child rearing. I bet you claim to prefer smaller government too, dontcha?
@UCrayCray at this point unfortunately small government isn’t going to work. I want baby’s to be born I’d don’t want them murdered before there born. You act like we’re trying to force you to get pregnant that isn’t the case. All we’re asking is for women not to kill there unborn children. If that means we have to pay more in taxes to help with child care I’m fine with that. If you don’t want to get pregnant don’t have sex or use birth control I don’t see how it’s that hard or to much to ask. Pro lifers view the baby as a separate life from the mother. You’ll never convince a pro lifers with the my body my choice argument because we view it as a separate body from yours. Again the only country that will hold you down and rape you and force you to have a kid is China. But this is why we have federalism if you are pro choice live i. California or New York and Oregon if your pro life move to Texas or Florida or Alabama or Louisiana. Most Texans believe abortion is murder most people in California believe abortion is women’s health care. There is no middle ground on this issue best thing to do is not have the federal government making decisions for the states California doesn’t have the right to cram it’s views on Texas and Texas doesn’t have the right to cram it’s views on Californians by using the federal government your doing exactly that
@Stoner710
Again you suggest that a woman must deny herself an important part of a loving relationship, which is unreasonable. Answer the question. Would you live in a sexless marriage if your wife followed your advice and denied you sex unless it’s to make a child? Meaning no more once your family is complete.
Yeah, probably not.
I know you see it as a separate body. That’s fine. I don’t, but that doesn’t matter. Never, can you ever, use the body of another, especially to sustain life, without continued permission. Women should not be reduced to mere incubators when they become pregnant.
I don’t care about states rights vs. federal rights tbh. What difference does it make who gets to tell me what I can do with my uterus?
@UCrayCray yes I would be in a sexless marriage I don’t need sex what I’m looking for in a women is companionship. I use to be liberal and pro choice. Until I gave it some thought once I became pro-life I swore off of sex until I am married and we’re ready to have kids. If she doesn’t want to give birth We’ll adopt. A relationship with a women is much more then sex. Yes sex is part of a relationship but it’s not the point of one any guy could get laid get a girl pregnant and have her get an abortion and there is not consequences. I myself am adopted my brother and sister at 18-20 years older then me, my nephew is 5 years younger he got a girl pregnant everyone in my family was saying his girl should get an abortion. I was the only one who told them not to, and get married. The marriage hasn’t happened yet but I am the reason that little boy is about to turn 3 this year and not just another unborn child. He has his own personality his own DNA and he’s his own person, and my nephew is doing the responsible thing in raising the child with the girl he got pregnant.
Untimely it is your choice to have sex, it is up to you do deny having sex with the guy. The guy may be disappointed. Give him and hand jobs and he’ll be fine. That how me and my girlfriend do it because we’re saving ourselves until I can afford to put that ring on her finger. I’m almost 29 I should be married with kids and this point I’m not because I went to college late we’ve been together for 6 years met her when I was 23. It’s worth it to give our future Yuki Hana or Sebastian there lives (I’m a anime nerd who also speaks enough Japanese to get around I get to name the girl it means snow flower) I’ve been with this girl for 6 years I love her for her I’ve been with her even though we don’t have sex because I love her and we will have kids once my political commentary gains traction. My goal is to be like Ben Shapiro without the Jewish part.
If you would willingly be in a sexless marriage, then that’s the choice you make. If you’re being honest about that, then good. At least you live what you preach. You are in a minority there.
However, nobody is claiming that a relationship is all about sex. But it does play a significant role in a loving, committed relationship. Your choice to forgo that bonding experience is all yours, and you have all the right in the world to make that choice.
What I still don’t understand is why you believe everybody else should live by your ideals? Why do you believe that your feelings should be the standards we all live by? Believe me when I tell you that I see things other people do and I disagree wholeheartedly with the choices they make. I support their right to make their own choices within their own life, even if I don’t approve. (Because my approval isn’t required.) That applies to you as well by the way. Make your choices, even if I don’t like those choices.
Why can’t you give me the same respect?
@UCrayCray because that’s not how society work. You are governed by laws which the majority consented to. This is why states are more important then the federal government. It is the right of the Texas state government to tell you can me how to live if we live in Texas I as an individual can’t tell you want to do with your life the government can. We don’t live in a libertarian society one side is going to have control over your body no matter what. I know you don’t care about government or the politics of the argument but that is what it comes down to the people who have the right to tell you what you can and can’t do with your body is the government. I’m in Washington state the governments in Washington state says I can smoke weed if I want to, the government of Idaho says I can’t the Idaho government is telling its citizens what it can and can’t do with there bodies. If you don’t want the government telling you to have not have sex or your having a baby that is the governments right. The women is china don’t have a right to say no I don’t want to be held down and forced to have sex and get pregnant by some high end government officials they don’t have the right to get an abortion either. Rights come from government it can be given or taken away
@UCrayCray I would leave the state but yes they could order that if they wanted to, Now you would get a civil war or a revolution against the government if they mandated that. But state governments could technically do that. They won’t because they want to stay alive but yes they could mandate it. Your forgetting the option of moving to another state
@UCrayCray well we’re in the United States of course you believe that. Talk that way in a place like China or North Korea you’ll be in a concentration camp faster then you can say “rights” in north Korea your idea of freedom would get your family imprisoned for the next 3 generations.
Untimely government does have a say if what you do with your body. The only way governments don’t have that right is if some sorta of god exists. Since god doesn’t exist either we have to get rid of government entirely in which case you can make any decisions about your body or we keep government in place and then they do have a right to have a say in your life. For abortion to have no legal consequences (depending on where you live) you will have to destroy the government
So your argument is I shouldn’t have my opinion because in some places I would get punished for my views?
What?
And ultimately no, the government doesn’t have a say. You said it yourself, citizens would revolt. Unless of course, it starts small. You know, like woman’s reproduction rights. You never know, maybe your choices of birth control might be next. Then, perhaps, how many children you have, or if you are even allowed children. I mean, how far are you willing to let go? Until it’s your rights being infringed upon is my guess. I’m betting when that happens, you’ll be joining the voices who are speaking out today against the over turning off RvW.
I sincerely doubt that this 10yo would be forced to carry the foetus to term as her body would not be able to do it, and she would be able to get an abortion under the conditions that are currently in place. the headlines by CBS are sensationalist. an abortion would be covered by Public funding in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
In Ohio, the following restrictions on abortion were in effect as of June 28, 2022:
A patient must receive state-directed counseling that includes information designed to discourage the patient from having an abortion, and then wait 24 hours before the procedure is provided. Counseling must be provided in person and must take place before the waiting period begins, thereby necessitating two trips to the facility.
Health plans offered in the state’s health exchange under the Affordable Care Act can only cover abortion in cases of life endangerment, or in cases of rape or incest.
Abortion is covered in insurance policies for public employees only in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
Medication abortion must be provided using the FDA protocol.
The parent of a minor must consent before an abortion is provided.
Public funding is available for abortion only in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
Most patients will undergo an ultrasound before obtaining an abortion, since the provider must test for a fetal heartbeat. The patient will be offered the option to view the image.
Abortion is banned at six weeks of pregnancy, except in cases of life endangerment or severely compromised physical health.
The state prohibits abortions performed in response to genetic anomaly.
The state requires abortion clinics to meet unnecessary and burdensome standards related to their physical plant, equipment and staffing.
The author of the law begs to differ.
www.politico.com/.../anti-abotion-10-year-old-ohio-00045843
"Jim Bopp, an Indiana lawyer who authored the model legislation in advance of the Supreme Court’s decision overturning Roe v. Wade, told POLITICO on Thursday that his law only provides exceptions when the pregnant person’s life is in danger."
@goaded It turns out that the child's family never took her for medical treatment in Ohio
www.youtube.com/watch
@goaded Time was not an issue as this existed;
Ohio, this was in effect as of June 28, 2022:; Public funding is available for abortion in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest.
The 10 yo would have bee treated out of the public purse, the family has given no reason why they took her to a neighbouring state.
It doesn't appear that that is the case. Six weeks, then you're out.
"When is abortion legal in Ohio?
Abortions are permitted until cardiac activity is detected, which usually occurs at about six weeks gestation. Physicians mark the start of a pregnancy by the first day of the person's last menstrual period, so many people don't know they're pregnant before six weeks unless they have a regular cycle.
Are there any exceptions?
Abortions beyond this threshold are legal if the provider determines it's a medical emergency and necessary to prevent the pregnant person's death or "serious risk of the substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function." There are no exceptions for cases of rape and incest or fatal fetal anomalies. "
eu.cincinnati.com/.../
Oh, and "Most patients will undergo an ultrasound before obtaining an abortion, since the provider must test for a fetal heartbeat. The patient will be offered the option to view the image." That would be a transvaginal ultrasound, if it's to detect a fetal heartbeat. Basically that means someone else raping the 10 year old child.
Yeah it’s fairly shocking.
This article pretty much some it up and just how fucking pathetic some people are both in the US and on here.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/07/14/10-year-old-abortion/
Then you have fuckwits threatening to go after doctors.
www.politico.com/.../indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764
Nothing like pushing an agenda of fear among medical professionals.
It is all turning in to a Christian version of Iran.
@MzAsh
twitter.com/.../1547607753698394114
The bizarre things that come out.
@hi_it_is_me123 ref your update, I find they are hiding behind technicalities over the use of the word illegal, as in if mothers life is at risk then it can. In the majority of that is not the case, then it’s illegal.
Doctors and medical professions are terrified of spending 10-20 years in prison, because there was a 1% chance the mother could have lived.
Notice a lot that say it’s not illegal then do not condemn that the girl could not get one, that speaks volumes
I think that no one ever asks the victim what they want when they are trying to push their agenda. Funny how that works when they USE a young rape victim to get what they want instead of what the child wants. Just like no one cares about all of the children being raped and dragged in to have forced abortions by their rapists to cover up and throw away evidence. Leaving the children to be raped for many more years. But, no. A baby is the problem. Not the actual rape, rapists, and enablers. Not everyone re-victimizing the children over and over. A young girl killed herself in my state over people treating her exactly like this. I went through it as well and became incredibly suicidal. I've never met a child rape victim who would have wanted their baby killed. Most would not have.
Turns out, it was the mother's boyfriend, an illegal. The abortion had nothing to do with the health of the girl. It had everything to do with the mother trying to cover up the boyfriend's crime, so the girl could continue to live in a dangerous situation, and the boyfriend could skirt justice.
The baby and the girl should both live. The baby daddy should get the electric chair, and the mother who aided and abetted a criminal alien invader rapist should get to stay in prison until she's mummified into the walls, to continue serving her sentence even after death.
A standard practice for hospitals is that a rape victim is given access to emergency contraceptives such as plan B. But things can get complicated when they are dealing with a minor. Because parents would have the last say. Everything gets even more complicated when you dig into the history of the back and forth on giving rape victims access to something such as plain be. Due to various conflicts between various elected officials, religious groups and other groups over rape victims to emergency contraceptives like plan b.
Do your self a favor and do some research on a given topic rather then watch main stream media news. Because you end up getting half or less then half of a story, a lot of biased and mainstream media on both sides are quick to leave things out if it will paint their side in a bad light.
The world that American Republicans wants us to live in is fucking horrific. That is what I think of a 10 year old rape victim who they want to not only give birth but also "feel grateful for" as the author of the bill in question puts it. Yeah, apparently this is a good thing in Conservative America. Fucking revolting...
the story is fake, the girl can get an abortion in her home state
@MzAsh the AG came out and said so, furthermore the original story was published without checking with any sources at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0M0QWX1yfc&t=1s
@007kingifrit Funny how someone was taken to trial for something that did not happen.
what? i never said the rape didn't happen, but that the laws never prevented the 10 year old from the abortion, that is the fake part of the story
@007kingifrit Actually it did, otherwise they would not have bothered literally going to another state. This is just the reality of the situation, if it was technically possible or not is secondary to the fact that the laws were obstructive and questionable enough that it was not worth pursuing in favor of going elsewhere.
As I understand the abortion laws in Ohio, and as far as they have been tested in court, the only real exception to the ban on abortions is for medical reasons after around 6 weeks of pregnancy. A 10 year old is very much a borderline case in this regard since there are plenty of cases each year of 10 year olds giving birth successfully so that by itself can be argued to not be a medical concern.
As such, since they could not afford to wait or jump through the numerous arbitrary hoops that Ohio demands of you before you are allowed an abortion I can safely say that the laws did indeed prevent that 10 year old girl from having an abortion.
Horrendous and a possibly she will die during childbirth as her body is not developed enough for pushing a baby out unless they plan on a c section which also carries a risk more so a young kid.
If she dies during childbirth her family should sue the state she's born in for every penny
You can actually tell men had a say in this law.
it's a fake story, no laws prevented her from getting the abortion in ohio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0M0QWX1yfc
It's what republicans have spent the last 4 decades fantasizing about: any man able to choose the mother of their child by stalking and raping them. It's sad how entirely far right disinformation has caused civility to fail these people but they aren't going to realize their mistake until after they have hurt a lot of people- assuming far right disinformation even tells them about it.
This is actual rape, not your ideals
It is since you don't know what rape is
that's the problem with the restrictive laws, there's always exception cases. can't legistlate this morality, can't tell someone else what to do with their life. turns into a bunch of exception issues, if/then logic
they should back off the law in oh-io.
the story is fake, her home state does allow abortions in this case
@007kingifrit I did not... good grief...
I think a dead pig should be surgically inserted into the rapist as punishment, see how he likes to carry about something for 9 months.
Punishment for rapists is not nearly severe enough, it needs to be a 1000 folder stronger than it is now... and damn any cruel and unusual punishment clauses, rapist gives a life long sentence and worse to the victim, better off they killed them.
In this case no way a 10 year can consent to it is obviously rape, no doubt about it.
The young child rape victim was able to get an abortion in a neighboring state. Rape needn't be proven since no 10 year old can give consent. Her cretin idiot mother allowed the rapist access to her daughter. This girl needs much TLC in a loving adoptive family. DNA will prove the identity of the sperm donor.
Abortion is still morally and legally wrong. She should have the child ask her parents to help her raise the child so she can focus on school and life after a traumatic experience. Abortion is and never will stop being wrong and the man who raped her just terrible. I don't know why men rape 10 year olds like that. It's so messed up.
Morally? according to what morrals?
according to some make believe religion
@John_Doesnt a lot of religions allow it. So Im just curious what morals she's talking about
This is reminding me of how a couple of years ago a news network pushing a specific political agenda would make a whole segment on some guy who hsd every illness known to man on his deathbed and they would say "it's because he didn't wear a mask and caught covid" it was BS then and this is some BS now I don't even need to see the full story to know that a pregnant 10 year old rape victim woulda gotten a legal abortion
Republicans denied it happened and then denied they said anything. Now they're trying to shift the blame to illegal immigration.
This is the dark reality that conservatives have created for America, because of some stupid religious beliefs about a "soul".
The fact she got pregnant at 10 years old shows God intended the age of consent to be a lot younger than our present legal framework allows.
By the way, the guy who raped her, if it wasn't consent, should be hanged.
The Bible says if nobody heard her scream for help, then it was consent.
Who the fuck cares about what the bible has to say on the subject?
your make believe religion has no basis in reality.
@John_Doesnt
Sticking your fingers in your ears and making noises doesn't negate the TRUTH.
The Truth is a few hundred thousand years ago, the average life expectancy of humans was FIFTEEN YEARS. They were CREATED to reproduce by the time they were 7 to 10 years old.
before the invention of antibiotics and vaccines by Pasteur, the modern human life expectancy was 40 years, a nd they married at 14 years old. Read a history book, you lying devil.
The God who does exist didn't invent a law telling a woman she had to wait half her natural life to marry.
And God most certainly exists.
Atheism is your carnal fairy tale that you like to justify wrong-doing with, but one day you're going to face the real God and give answer, most especially when you mock God himself.
where is your messiah now? 
@John_Doesnt
I don't believe in a messiah. I'm a Deist.
Messiah is a false prophet.
you don't believe in God? Then you're a false prophet
@John_Doesnt
You don't know what "Deist" means, do you?
Idiot.
you don't know what iridescent means
@John_Doesnt
Yes, actually, I do. It's like the rainbow colored film on some insects and which oil makes int he water.
@Wade12345 christian have been trying to shove the goddamn stupid bible down our throats for almost 2000 years. It's only been a few decades since most of us finally barfed it out. We're not going to stand for it again.
Fuck your stupid god up the ass, it doesn't exist. Just like all the gods from all the religions in history. You've got another thing coming if you think people will just let you life-sucking parasites make the bible rule politics ever again.
@Danzigdawson
"thou shalt not revile the gods"
lol.
I'm laughing at you, blasphemer. Your day is coming.
So what? If heaven is full of idiot christians, i'd rather go to hell. A place full of people like you is my vision of what hell is.
But since none of those two things exist... again: fuck that tantrum-prone, idiot bearded asshole. If women commit a "murder" every time they abort a foetus, men commit genocide every time they ejaculate, even if they do it to reproduce. Explain the millions of human beings you've killed before your god; for each spermatozoon contains a human soul, after all. And women who say abortion is a sin murder one child every month, as they have their period. There's no escaping it. No wonder why that asshole in the sky is so pissed all the time, like a 4 year old kid who can't control his emotions.
I do not feel that the Republicans want this or to ban all abortions, but I certainly agree that abortion has become so common that no one's taking it seriously. I think the judges felt the same way but cannot make law they can only rule if a law is right or wrong
It’s not illegal everywhere, and even in the places where it is more difficult most have exceptions for rape. The state she is from is one of those states with an exception for rape. The media essentially shit posted globally with little if any fact checking, and their egos won’t let them take it back or even run a correction.
This is terrible. After reading all the news about these abortion bans, I have felt neglected. Women should be able to choose their rights.
The law is, in most places where abortion is "banned," is that unless the patient's health or life is at risk, abortion may happen. This 10 year old had a rare condition, and abortion wasn't allowed. Abortion should be allowed. Women need their rights.
this is fake news, the state didn't stop her from getting an abortion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0M0QWX1yfc&t=1s
Rape is trivial to prove if the victim is 10 years old. And with a pregnancy, there's DNA evidence of who the rapist was.
President & CEO of Americans United for Life Catherine Glenn Foster pretended that the girl's pregnancy could have been ended in any state, when that's clearly not the case.
@goaded yes the video just proves what a piece of shit she is.
twitter.com/.../1547607753698394114
I don't think much of it because abortion isn't banned in the United States. Her family can bring her to California, where they know how to kill unborn babies at an astronomical rate. She'll be fine.
And if you aren't American, stay the hell out of our business. We don't care what you think or have to say. Worry about the likely liberal cesspool country you live in.
@zagor: Yet again another mormon that actually votes... If you don't like the fact that fge Constitution affords states their own rights, move to a state that aligns with your beliefs. Or stay where you are and vote for officials that support your beliefs. Keep your eye on the prize. You, like so many others, are consumed by the social aspect of it. Stop that. So vote people in who support killing children, and be happy that you did. Simple.
@zagor: Yes, southern states elected tons of DemoKKKrats from reconstruction through the 1960s to oppress black Americans. Not sure what your point is, other than those same DemoKKKrats violated the Constitution.
Glad you live where you can abort children that can live on their own, where eugenics reigns free, and you proudly live knowing that the oppression of black and brown women and babies will continue. How Margaret KKK Sanger of you. She and Hitler would be proud. Take pride in knowing that. After all, abortion just further enslaves minority women. Anything for a vote, eh @zagor?
What a joke. It isn't abortion that enslaves minority women, rather the opposite - no one is forcing them to have an abortion, a rather inconvenient fact in your "argument".
And in case you've been dozing for the last 50 years, the GOP has largely taken the mantle of oppression for themselves, now going for women. There is a reason the South swung sharply from going Democratic to the GOP. Lincoln wouldn't recognize the party today.
Lincoln is the biggest mass murderer of Americans in our history. But that's for another time.
Name one thing. Just one thing, that "Republicans" have oppressed people on? I know you'll go straight to abortion. Fine. Here goes. You won't like it, as most consumed Americans are afraid of liberty and this will fall on deaf ears, but the truth must be put out...
SCOTUS just made the federal government's involvement in a woman's uterus nill! Yep! No more government involvement. Now, that pesky Constitution has an amendment within the Bill of Rights that allows for state sovereignty (10th). Effectively, it gives the states individual rights LIKE US INDIVIDUAL PERSONS to govern as it deems fit, just as long as it doesn't infringe upon the Bill of Rights. You will NOT find anywhere in the Constitution that guarantees a right to an abortion. What you will find is a woman does have privacy via due process. So you're upset that the glitch was fixed. Makes no sense. You, all the other cucks, and white, liberal, menopausal women are all EMPOWERED to elect officials who will make the killing of babies legal moreso throughout the UNITED STATES. Yes, in bold because the states UNITE on the FEDEEAL level, but act with autonomy at the state level.
And if you don't think abortion enslaves women in modern society, you have much to learn. Highly recommend reading "Freakonomics" by Levitt and Dubner (two leftists like yourself, so you'll be in good company). You have no clue just how consumed you really are and how enslavement and control in the 21st Century actually works. I suggest you break that cycle now and start thinking for yourself. And save the "I do think for myself! You don't!" Immature, sandbox response. You just don't get it. Time to start getting it, simpleton. Now do yourself proud, read that book, stop consuming mainstream media and social media, and take a stance against woke agendas and falsehoods peddled upon you by the globalist agenda. I'm rooting for you.
So it's OK for the states to tell women what to do with their bodies? Control over your own body is the most essential right there is. Your calling the state legislation telling them what they must do with their own body "liberty" sounds like something out of "1984". Which YOU should really read.
Dude, seriously. You need to quit while you're behind. I can literally quote "1984" like the back of my hand, as well as tell you everything you'd like to know about George Orwell, including his socialist/Marist ideology, the fact that he was an atheist that never went to church, etc. You wanna go down that road? Let me know so I can begin shedding you apart.
And YES! It IS okay for states to tell women what they can and can't do. The same way you can tell people what they can and can't do in your own home. Retake 9th grade civics. You have a lot to revisit and understand how this country works.
Ironically, you can't even see the fact that a state like California where you can abort away is still telling a women what she can and can't do. But that too is for another time, because you're that consumed.
How about those COVID vaccines, eh? Your body. Your choice, right? Federal and local governments have fired THOUSANDS for taking a stance. Inflation through the roof. Gas prices killing folks living paycheck to paycheck. You have the Transportation Secretary telling you roads are racist and to buy $66,000 EVs. Supply chains are rattled. And the reason why the unemployment rate is "down" is because nobody wants to work.
Get with the program. I already told you to stop being consumed. Call state officials and put them on notice that if they don't draft legislation that kills babies, they're out of office. Why are you so afraid of your power as the People is beyond me.
Stop mixing issues together as they are one.
Thank you for being honest about your hypocritical stance on "Your body, your choice." Very leftist of you, and wouldn't have it any other way.
Funny part about all of this, you actually think you know where I stand on said issues. That's what I like about little brains like yourself.
@zagor: Oh boy... You really don't know anything. Hate to embarrass you in front of everybody, so I'll start with a leftist article, suitable for your liking and you'll hate that you have no place to argue:
www.forbes.com/.../?sh=6553c3801b00
Last paragraph. And that's just Forbes. When you want truly verifiable sources via EBSCOHost or something, then I'll truly shred you apart.
Scratch that. Time to start piling on:
dailytrojan.com/.../
archive.thinkprogress.org/.../
Leftist enough for you to agree, my little consumed puppet?
So I ask... Have YOU read anything of his? As previously stated, I know a TON about the guy. As proven you do not, you didn't even think to look up what I stated. My my, how all you little sheeple are the same.
Piling on? The Daily Trojan piece is just a bland piece of student writing ignoring, among other things, the example of modern China.
And no, I have not studied Orwell's personal beliefs. I know him by his writings, as in the two works I mentioned. Isaac Newton had some bizarre personal beliefs but that doesn't mean his treatise on calculus was wrong.
First of all, using "cuck'd" as an insult is 100% sign of a dumbfuck. Furthermore, you don't even have the intelligence to distinguish the stages of human embryonic development, with your clueless talk of killing babies.
And I'm on here so much today because I'm procrastinating on packing my stuff to move.
I don't understand your update about rape being difficult to prove, it's a 10 year old girl, she can't give consent anyway. It's at the very least a statutory rape. In other cases, yes, it could be difficult to prove but the only proof necessary usually in states with exceptions is a rape exam and a police report.
Yes in this case it can be proved. I actually meaned raped victims who are 18+
I mistake the questions lol. So make an update on the wrong question
Oh, yeah I see what you mean.
I think that the Hyde Amendment provides federal funding for women who were impregnated as a consequence of being the victim of a sex crime. Unless there is a medical reason that she can't have the abortion safely; there is no reason that she should be denied the procedure.
It's exactly how Roe v Wade worked. Women had the right to an abortion until viability, iirc, but it was definitely defined as a constitutional right by SCOTUS in 1973, 7-2. And, yes, Ohio made the abortion that child received out of state illegal. That's why she went out of state.
@goaded That is 100% objectively not how Roe v. Wade worked at all. Roe declared that states cannot unreasonably restrain women from accessing the abortive services available to them in a state during the first trimester, but it did not declare that women have the right to access those services. The presence of abortion service providers was absolutely never guaranteed by Roe.
"Roe v. Wade, 410 U. S. 113 (1973),[1] was a landmark decision of the U. S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that the Constitution of the United States conferred the right to have an abortion"
The fact that some states tried very hard to make it impossible to access an abortion doesn't change that fact.
@filmguy93 i blocked that goaded guy years ago, he's an idiot who isn't American but thinks he knows how to watch our news. block him and move on
@goaded https://www.oyez.org/cases/1971/70-18 The Supreme Court says otherwise.
Never mind, it was probably the year it was introduced. Anyway, yes it was a right, absolute in the first trimester, limitable in the second and third:
"The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment protects against state action the right to privacy, and a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion falls within that right to privacy. A state law that broadly prohibits abortion without respect to the stage of pregnancy or other interests violates that right. Although the state has legitimate interests in protecting the health of pregnant women and the “potentiality of human life,” the relative weight of each of these interests varies over the course of pregnancy, and the law must account for this variability.
In the first trimester of pregnancy, **the state may not regulate the abortion decision**; only the pregnant woman and her attending physician can make that decision. In the second trimester, the state may impose regulations on abortion that are reasonably related to maternal health. In the third trimester, once the fetus reaches the point of “viability,” a state may regulate abortions or prohibit them entirely, so long as the laws contain exceptions for cases when abortion is necessary to save the life or health of the mother."
Nobody said it was an absolute right until birth.
@goaded I wasn't talking about abortions until birth either. "The state may not regulate the abortion decision" is NOT the same as a right. That's saying that the government can't pass legislation for or against abortions in the first trimester. THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING STATES ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE ABORTIVE SERVICES. And it's certainly not saying the government is obligated to give women access to tax dollars to fund their abortions.
@goaded You are incorrect about that. Well over half of the funding for programs that provide abortions (among many other services) comes from the state government welfare programs. See page 37: www.plannedparenthood.org/.../...020-web-final.pdf
What part of "The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment protects against state action the right to privacy, and a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion falls within that right to privacy. A state law that broadly prohibits abortion without respect to the stage of pregnancy or other interests violates that ***right***." are you having problems with? They had a right to privacy which led to a right to decide whether to have an abortion. The same bloody right those assholes want to take away for same-sex marrriage and the right to contraception (but not, for some reason, the right to interracial marriage), according to Clarence Thomas, who happens to be married to a white woman who wanted the 2020 election overturned.
I checked. That's not what I asked: "So you don't think people have the right to free speech? Or you do think the people had the right to choose to have an abortion (until a couple of weeks ago)? " You say both rights are/were rights of non-interference from the government, not an affirmative right granted to empower private citizens.
@goaded I answered your question just fine; the choices you gave aren't mutually exclusive things. The rights listed in the Bill of Rights are treated as "natural" (or God given) rights in America, which means that people are presumed to have them. Although I would argue that Freedom of Speech doesn't truly exist in America. That fact doesn't change that Women still have the right to choose to have an abortion.
That's why asked you if you had the right to murder someone. And you said you don't.
You don't have the right to do something illegal, and governments can't make things that you've got a right to illegal. States have made abortions illegal because it's no longer a right, so they can.
@goaded Here's what you said: "I checked. That's not what I asked: "So you don't think people have the right to free speech? Or you do think the people had the right to choose to have an abortion (until a couple of weeks ago)? " You say both rights are/were rights of non-interference from the government, not an affirmative right granted to empower private citizens."
It takes two to hold a reasonable discussion.
You have said: Roe v. Wade "never actually guaranteed the right to an abortion."
You have said: "the right to privacy is a right of non-interference from the government, not an affirmative right granted to empower private citizens."
You have said: the right of free speech is also a "right of non-interference from the government"
You have not connected the dots that lead to the evident conclusion that the right to an abortion, at least an early one, was as much a right as the right to free speech, and your first statement was false.
The only difference was that the right to an abortion was based on an interpretation of the constitution by the supreme court and not explicit in the text. That shouldn't matter because that's what SCOTUS is there for, to make that determination, and that ruling should stand unless there is a compelling reason to change it. "We've finally got the votes" is not a compelling reason, especially as those justices all led the Senate to believe they would not change established precedent.
@goaded I haven't connected those dots to that conclusion because that isn't what I'm arguing. My argument is that Roe v. Wade did not establish an affirmative right to an abortion; which it objectively did not. The privacy right that it did invoke has been reinforced and clarified by other case law, which means that the consequence of Roe being overturned isn't as great as people are making it out to be.
Except they're all rights, and you didn't specifiy "affirmative right".
Your statement that Roe v. Wade "never actually guaranteed the right to an abortion." is objectively false.
You also preceded that with "Why would abortions be illegal?", when the answer was always because the right has been taken away after two generations, for no better reason than the right managed to stack the supreme court, and states can now make it illegal again.
Of course I understand. SCOTUS said that access to certain abortions is a result of the right to privacy, as they interpreted the law.* That meant it was a right.
*Back when the mostly Republican nominated court's members had at most 26 votes against their confirmations (one of the two desenting justices in the 7-2 decision), and all the rest had at most single digit votes against them. You know, when SCOTUS was still was deserving of respect.
Yes it does. The word is literally in the opinion:
"The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment protects against state action the right to privacy, and a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion falls within that ***right*** to privacy. A state law that broadly prohibits abortion without respect to the stage of pregnancy or other interests violates that ***right***..."
Ah, outright lies now? Where do you get "state funded" from? The state doesn't hand out megaphones because of the right to free speech.
SCOTUS, in 1973, decided that an abortion was covered by the RIGHT to privacy. Therefore access to abortions was a constitutional RIGHT. Until a religious minority managed to stack the supreme court with enough liars to overturn it.
@goaded "Because Medicaid is jointly funded by the federal and state governments, states can choose to pay for abortions under Medicaid in other instances, but must use their own revenues, and not federal funds, to cover the service. Currently, 16 states have a policy directing the use of their own funds to pay for abortions for low-income women insured by Medicaid beyond the Hyde limitations, nine of which provide coverage as the result of a court order (Figure 1)" www.kff.org/.../
As for your laughable SCOTUS interpretation; I'm not going to entertain someone who refuses to understand even the most tenants of the American legal system.
Yeah, that's more bullshit. SCOTUS said abortions are covered by the right to privacy, so they were a right. The right has absolutely nothing to do with who pays for it, same as the right to free speech doesn't give you the right to a platform. That's just your sad little distraction.
Of course you are distracting from your incorrect assertion that Roe "never actually guaranteed the right to an abortion". The 1973 SCOTUS decided that the right to an abortion was covered by the right to privacy. At that point it was an established constitutional right.
Or do you think all those states that didn't want abortion to be legal allowed them for nearly fifty years out of the kindness of their hearts? Or those states that passed trigger laws to outlaw abortion if Roe were overturned could have just made them illegal?
@goaded I have neither distracted from, nor made an incorrect assertion about Roe. I think that those states kept abortion services around because everyone acknowledged and still acknowledges that abortions do have their place. As this Washington Post article on this exact subject points out; abortions should be and are available to protect the life and well being of the mother. www.washingtonpost.com/.../
FFS, you're saying states wrote and passed anti-abortion trigger laws by mistake? They didn't know what they were doing? You know better than all of those lawmakers and their lawyers did for nearly 50 years; they could simply have passed laws banning abortion because there wasn't really a constitutional right to them.
Then maybe it would have been better not to place extreme religious zealots on the supreme court. And the laws absolutely do what the media says they do. Even the man who wrote the Ohio law said she shouldn't have been allowed an abortion under his law.
"Jim Bopp, an Indiana lawyer who authored the strict anti-abortion legislation in Ohio said the young girl would not have received an abortion."
"Jim Bopp was interviewed by Politico: “She would have had the baby, and as many women who have had babies as a result of rape, we would hope that she would understand the reason and ultimately the benefit of having the child,” Bopp said in a phone interview on Thursday."
This is a lie.
She could have gotten an abortion because the state law allows abortion if the mother's life is in danger. There is not a single state that I know of that does not allow abortion in rape/incest/endangered life of mother.
Also turns out that the rapist was an illegal immigrant. Can't wait for media to bury this one forever.
That's fucked up depending on the situation I say that their should be rules to abortion but also you should be able to get one if you are raped and shit. But to just go get one cause your a whore and can't keep your legs closed that's where I draw the line
What about the ones who aren’t whores? Or do you consider all women who get pregnant unexpectedly to be whores?
No I didn't say that im just saying if at least you know what the outcomes going to be so why would you do it
Why would they do what? Have sex?
Tip of the iceberg, you're looking at potentially millions of child mothers across America thanks to this law. I wouldn't be surprised if they're forced to marry their rapists.
this story was fake. there were no laws in ohio stopping her from getting the abortion and the entire story was built on 1 source
learn to watch better news
I have read articles by serious german newspapers. This is why it catches my attention. Learn to watch better news too lol. I pick a random youtube news video about this topic to not explain the whole topic. HOWEVER, i am sorry for making this question if it is really fake and i can't click video link (?). I can't have acces to my GaG account on the app. So i can't reply to anyone and please be nice. Do you also have the same issues on GaG App? I can't use it right now
I have seen rude posts of you. Thank you for your replies but please be nice. By being rude, you dont get taken serious and may even get reported by mods. So please be nice😅🙇♀️🙇♀️
@hi_it_is_me123 why would german news have the right facts? euro news is notiriously uninformed about america
She was though. her state has a medical exemption for abortions--they didn't bother trying to get an abortion there.
The parents went over state lines and the new doctor falsely reported the rapist as 17 years old while he was a 27 year old illegal alien. Sounds like maybe the parents wanted to cover for the rapist.
I’m not saying I agree with it but I think the problem with allowing abortion in cases of rape is verifying if the person was actually raped or not however I think regardless of the reason a 10 yr old girl gets pregnant she shouldn’t have the kid.
It's insane. It's absolutely awful how many states want to oppress girls and women.
Um... how do u get pregnant at 10... horrible if it true that people do such shitty things
Especially to kids. But at 10... she shouldn't have had period yet. Sounds like B. S.
Some girls even have period at 9 . It depends on your life quality. I seriously dont know whether the story is bs or not. I just read german articles
yea so the story wasn't true in many ways, but the sexual act itself did happen and she did get pregnant
but her home state does allow abortions in this case so it's totally fake as a political narrative
@007kingifrit it happened as was reported and they do not. Also doctors in ban states need to be 100% legally covered regarding the danger to life of the mother, 99% danger can result in someone taking them to court.
The Twitter video is a classic.
www.washingtonpost.com/.../
twitter.com/.../1547607753698394114
I think there should be exceptions in cases of rape/ incest, and if the girls is under 13 it really doesn't matter if she can prove it/ is lying.
Or would this be considered as changing the subject?
I think that her parents should take more care to protect their daughter.
Hopefully she is getting therapy and all the support she can get. Poor girl
Abortions should stay legal. Everyone doesn’t want kids and that’s ok. Forcing people to have babies they don’t want will end up with a lot of babies mistreated, abused or dead.
you will learn to want them when you have them. children are a moral obligation to produce
@007kingifrit fuck you and them kids
It’s horrific. Some places in America are so backwards. She should obviously be allowed an abortion for numerous reasons
parts of this story are fake. ohio does allow abortions in this case but the left wing news is claiming otherwise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0M0QWX1yfc
According to the attorney general of Ohio, there is no evidence that this case exists. It is likely a story fabricated to freak pro-abortion activists out.
Even if it did exist, an abortion will happen anyway citing the health of the 10 year old. I think this is a total nothing-burger.
I wonder why the illegal alien that raped her was able to sneak into the country and has not been deported..
@exitseven I know, right. I cannot wait for Donald Trump to win so he can put these drug dealing illegals out the country. With give them welfare and all they have to do is keep their house clean, but instead they pee and leave dog shit on elevators. All they have to do is keep clean and not rape children, but that's too hard for them. If they don't like it here they can go back home.
LMFAO absolutely ture @Kaneki05
As for people thinking that the problem is immigrants, you're sorely mistaken.
The facts are immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes, then citizens.
www.scientificamerican.com/.../%3famp=true?espv=1
Responsible immigration is murdering natives and raping them but it's all fine because it was their job? You have some pretty messed up ideas of how immigration works clearly and calling it immigration when it was invasion more like. Guess you need to go back to school to be taught what really happened to the natives of america and to find out that you have pride to mock others trying to come into your country when it's wasn't yours in the first place. lol.
You want to take your kids out of school so they don't learn simple history. I knew some americans were really uneducated but I didn't know they were that far gone they don't even accept that they wiped out the natives of the country they are in. Probably don't think they invaded Africa either to get slaves. Just nope lets all be blind to history. Guess you just think natives in america were very friendly to outsiders and they all got along like big happy families and were totally fine with outsiders making it their own land.
The first Native they encountered spoke fluent English and had crossed the Atlantic several times, his first question to them was did they bring beer.
So at least at first natives were probably pretty welcoming.
As for Africa, and the slave trade, there was no need to invade Africa to capture slaves. White people bought black slaves from other black people, this is well established.
Well There’s always ways to have an Abortion and I know of a few ways to have a miscarriage.
But I’m not going say what it is.
And the ways I know of Aren’t Going kill the person
The ways I know are just an easy and Quick way to a Miscarriage
Idiots will end up killing themselves over trying to have an abortion while the methods I know of aren’t going to kill the person and aren’t dangerous and are Safe to the person it would just cause the miscarriage and whatever happens after that I do not know
Plenty of chicks will probably decide Falling down the stairs as a Good way to have a miscarriage or they will pay someone to repeatedly hit them in the stomach but ways I know aren’t painful but yeah
You girls complain so much about everything what’d you think was gonna happen. I mean you always complained about Killing babies is wrong and now you got your wish so now if your raped you have to have the baby and that was a consequence you have to your species by complaining all the time
I don’t feel bad for any of you females you brought this Abortion ban upon yourselves
Call me evil or a psychopath for not caring about What happens I don’t care 🤷♂️ What people think of me
If The ban would of just Been banned and made illegal just cause the government wanted to be a jerk then yeah I’d feel bad but you females complained about female Rights all the time about how wrong Abortion is and now your complaining about when a kid Is raped and Can’t do an abortion
Oh well it’s your own faults for Telling the government what’s Evil and what’s good and now the government is saying Killing babies is evil so even if your raped Murder is Murder and is illegal and now the government knows And is more empathetic Towards human life
That’s what you wanted them
To be so now the government is on the side of empathy and goodness the side of being a Human being with emotions and a moral compass 🧭
I am also not a psychopath but this ban will harm men more than women. Also women are invidual and some of them are pro life and some are pro choice
She actually fit the requisites for an abortion in the state.
Mom clearly moved state lines in order to protect her boyfriend, she likely even engaged in it as well.
And she's still protecting the rapist, by the way.
Abortion is still legal for about half the population. It is the dumb redneck states that are banning it.
Regardless of the ban 10 years old is extremely young for an abortion. There are always risks even with older women. That's part of why they have the ban.
I would assume its more risky not the other way around.
"Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/
And that's for adult women, not girls.
you wanna know what more risky? a 10 year old child carrying a pregnancy to term.
I am intelligent enough to recognise a Democrat lie when I see it.
No evidence to prove the rape happened. No police reports, or anything else.
she was 10...…. a 10 year old cannot consent to sex... and she is pregnant... are you not familiar with how babies are made?
@Dargil
Watch the video
This happened, stop being an Ostrich.
twitter.com/.../1547607753698394114
What makes this worse is her trying to weasel out of it.
www.washingtonpost.com/.../
If you watched the video read the link
You would realise officials had been dealing with it.
It happened, it was not allowed to be carried out in Ohio - that is in the video.
What the hell the name of the driver needs to be, who cares.
it’s the fact it happened AND the State would not let it be carried out.
There is evidence it happened, there is evidence that Ohio would not do it, that’s in the video.
@Dargil
There name of the Doctor, join the witch hunt among the religious fuckwits.
www.politico.com/.../indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764
OUR GOVERNMENT AT ITS BEST That is governingvfrom the bench not by the people
If only we didn't allow illegals into the country this girl would not have been raped.
@zagor I don't assume anything. This situation is not an abortion issue. It is an immigration issue. There is always a fringe instance regarding EVERYTHING and thats why one shouldn't make up their mind on an issue based off a fringe case. BUT BUT what if a robber robs me at gunpoint and uses and innocent child as a human shield and is shooting my whole family up, then its ok for me to shoot and kill the innocent child to kill the murderer because it ultimately saves more lives right? So therefore thats why we should kill 7 year old kids. SMH. This is nonsense! And guess what? I guarantee something like this has happened! Just not often enough that its a legit concern when deciding if we should allow people to kill kids. Just like this example is nonsense in terms of whether abortion is good or bad.
I think it was all made up by Democrats trying to get people to vote for a party that has worse economy since depression
@MzAsh Of course not, but @888thegreat was bound to bring it up at some point to distract from the fact it was a Republican law that would have forced the 10 year old child to carry a pregnancy up until the point it was sure to kill her, unless she went out of state. People should remember that when they start passing laws to make it illegal to leave the state for an abortion.
@MzAsh the story is fake, her home state did allow abortions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0M0QWX1yfc
the 10 year old already was able to get the abortion...
It is disgusting that this can even be allowed.
I didn't know it was even possible for a 10-year-old to get pregnant.
But apparently it is.
As soon as she gets her period, she can get pregnant.
My youngest got her first period just before she turned 9, and all my girls before 12.
@OrallyFixated I didn't think you could even get your period that early but apparently you can. Must all be part of God's Plan.
If Lina Medina‘a story is part of “god’s plan,” then the human race is better off without it.
there are still states that allow abortions. It is only illegal in some states.
this particular story is fake, the abortion in question was legal in ohio where the rape happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0M0QWX1yfc
Actually she could get one in Ohio. But the media doesn't want people to know that; because fear mongering drives ratings.
Why could not she then?
Funny how it’s been recorded as happening in Indiana
www.npr.org/.../doctor-told-the-state-she-performed-abortion-on-10-year-old-girl-document-shows
Feel free to contact the Police and report that doctor for a false abortion claim.
It is really easy to prove if you have a pregnant 10 year old. Statutory rape is illegal in Ohio.
Oh my fault. I mean women of legal age
At brave blue Anon, no she was refused.
What then followed was usual cowardly American thing of denying it happened, looking at every excuse possible to deal with the fact the states Abortion laws could not handle it.
The press and politicians over there who are pro abortion denied it all, put up every excuse going.
This type of thing that was dealt with quietly, will now be in every media outlet globally every time some young girl is pregnant.
Which is good as it highlights how pathetic some states are.
Ohio has an exception for life of the mother. A pregnant 10 year old would be at the top of that list.
That was discussed, it needs to be 100%
The doctors are scared / terrified that if it is 99% then they run the risk of being burnt and imprisoned.
It is a culture of fear that has been put in place.
That 1% can mean 20 years in prison.
In this case I'd say we might want to pay more attention to that illegal immigration problem.
Also, I'm willing to bet money that she gets an abortion so I guess that part isn't so much the issue. The dude should be put to death however.
deflect much?
It's not going to be easy for her if she lives in the US
She was probably raped by liberals.
It's criminal.
Welcome to Motherhood
well she was 10 and raped, but the story is fake in the sense that ohio does allow a 10 year old to get an abortion
It was an unfortunate inevitability.
I think it's a rare instance.
A flawed law.
no, a fake news story. her home state did allow abortions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0M0QWX1yfc
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