Republicans claim "they love and supports our veterans and military" just blocked a bill that would of helped sick and disabled veterans, thoughts?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

The Republican party. A party of complete disgusting scumbags. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/republicans-reject-spending-bill-veterans-exposed-burn-pits/story?id=87619926#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16592167347413&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

Updates

+1 y

On the senate floor after they blocked the bill, there's a video clip showing Republicans fist bumping and calibrating.

Remember, they voted to send several billions of dollars (around $50 billion) for the military of Ukraine yet our veterans get the finger to their faces.

Updates

+1 y

The bill to help veterans passed. Right thing to do. It's 277 billion dollars over 10 years.

news.yahoo.com/...ees-vote-bill-aid-205624589.html

[Anonymous]

The "This party didn't vote for [insert good thing here] bill, therefore they do not support [good thing]" mentality is extremely fallacious. I will be using the covid relief bill as an example.

1. The title of the bill does not prove that all of the contents of the bill are related to it. The covid relief bill not only provided stimulus checks for Americans but it also included sending hundreds of millions of dollars to several countries for things that have nothing to do with covid and ultimately things that are none of our business. One notable mention is Pakistan got $15 million for “democracy programs” and $10 million for “gender programs”. Congress is wasting far more of our tax money than we might realize.

2. Members of congress such as AOC and Ted Cruz have complained that the bill was too long for the amount of time they had to read it. AOC, in particular said that the bill was over 5000 pages but was expected to vote on it in 2 hours (https://nypost.com/2020/12/22/aoc-ted-cruz-agree-covid-relief-bill-was-too-big-to-read/). I hear that Lauren Boebert wants to extend this time limit to five days, which I am all for but until this change happens, this time limit will have a huge influence on how members of Congress will vote on bills. They may strike down bills because they do not know enough about what it entails due to the strict time limit.

I swear, if there will ever be a holocaust-like atrocity in the US, a bill with a name like "Not Slaughtering Puppies Act" will be the one that allowed it to happen.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

The way American proposed bills always have other laws and polices associated with the main agenda.

The Covid-19 or this current proposed legislation isn't the exception.

[Opinion Owner]

Right, that's why it is important to actually read the bill before making any moral judgment on how people vote on it.

[goaded]

Here's the bill, quote the "tricks": www.congress.gov/.../text

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded If what AOC said about the time limit was true and it applies here, then it doesn't matter what it actually says. How could you expect people to vote with any sort of confidence if they cannot possibly be able to know what it says in time for the vote?

[Stoner710]

Why would we pass the bill to give the $2 million to Ukraine when we could use that to help the veterans.

Unfortunately there’s a lot of pork in a lot of bills Be it a democrat bill or republican bill. It’s like Democrats support DACA but in order to support DACA they also have to vote to build the wall Democrats are going to vote to build the wall so they’re not for supporting DACA? This is why bills should be simple like 5 to 10 pages long and we can vote on individual issues rather than an Omni bus package

[goaded]

It is about 10 pages. www.congress.gov/.../text

[Stoner710]

@goaded Ah well then yes that doesn’t make sense on why Republicans wouldn’t vote for it.

I can think of 2 reason

1 spending is out of control but both parties spend like hell

2 whatever democrats are for republicans are against

[goaded]

Definitely #2, and Republicans only care about the deficit when Democrats are in power.

Taking out one sentence made a massive difference to 29 Republican senators (joining the 14 other Republican senators that voted against the bill in the first place).

The sentence: "Not a taxable benefit. A contract buy-out for a covered health care professional under subsection (a) shall not be considered a taxable benefit or event for the covered health care professional"

[Stoner710]

@goaded yea that’s stupid especially since republicans vote for lower taxes, Like personally when it comes to taxes I think the federal government should only be allowed to tax sales. No income tax no property tax no corporate tax no inheritance tax. We tax so much in this country even when your dead we still tax you, I thought we fought a war so we wouldn’t have to pay enormous taxes. That’s what the revolution was about. We even ad a system of government (which we abandon pretty quickly). That didn’t allow the federal government to collect any taxes whats so ever, we should go back to that.

[goaded]

To be fair, your estate only gets taxed if you're worth over $5.5 million when you die. And not if it is left to your spouse or charity. And I think the complaint was about "taxation without representation", not taxation per se.

[Stoner710]

@goaded that was the main part of it (no taxation without representation). There was a bit more like internal vs external taxes most of the colonies taxed there citizens (internal). And they also had to pay the British tax (external). On top of it. Now of course logically there shouldn’t be any taxes from D. C and there territories since they don’t have representation. There’s an argument that the territories maybe should be there own independent countries. D. C of course should never have representation the whole point of D. C was to have the United States capital outside of any state so the states weren’t fighting over which state house the federal government (it was a major fight between New York and vagina and I think Pennsylvania).

I know in my state we have property tax and my mom had to pay taxes of her inheritance from her dad when he died in 2010 of course Washington doesn’t have income tax, they’ve been trying to tax income for decades but they can’t without making amends to the state constitution. Ironically we have the 3rd highest tax rate combined with state rates and local taxes (ironically Tennessee and Arkansas are higher) which is weird you would think all red states would have a lower tax rate

[goaded]

Did you switch from complaining about federal taxes to complaining about state taxes? Federal estate taxes only affect a tiny fraction of very wealthy people.

They passed a constitutional amendment to allow income taxes. Surprisingly quickly, too, I seem to remember reading.

[Stoner710]

@goaded I complain about all taxes federal or state. And yes we did the 16th amendment is garbage. I kinda get local taxes because you local government does need some money but it would only be sales and no more then 5%

[Aerissa_Jade]

I'd believe this if the bill was strictly for Veterans with nothing else, but throwing crap in, that they can't support, while mixed with stuff they can support but the bad is too much, means they should redo the bill with just the Veterans stuff in it and nothing more.

Then you'll see the Republicans fully supporting it, but what are the chances whoever wrote the bill will do it plain and simple and not allow any riders?

[exitseven]

It was a bill to fund a lot of stupid do nothing projects with a little bit thrown in to help veterans.

[goaded]

@exitseven There was no money added between the 84-14 vote and the cloture vote that blocked it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmacgVAtxSk

[Anonymous]

Sounds like something is going on behind the scenes. It’s always a big chess game in politics.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Yep. They been cold hearted jerks like usual.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

*being

[AviatorTom]

The Republicans are not opposed to help for veterans; they changed their vote because the Democrats changed part of the bill to allow them to spend more money, and the Republicans legitimately objected to that.

"As written, the legislation would not just help America’s veterans as designed. It could also allow Democrats to effectively spend the same money twice and enable hundreds of billions in new, unrelated spending on the discretionary side of the federal budget," Mitch McConnell said.

In other words, the Democrats are playing politics by tacking on a way to spend more money onto a bill that, otherwise, everyone supports. Shame on them for doing that because now that bill doesn't get passed.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

So freaking what? Pass the damn bill. I bet if the bill had attached tax reductions to the mega rich the Republican won't care about the sudden change to the bill and would have passed it.

[AviatorTom]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy Do you really want to let the Democrats take $400 million away from veterans support so they can spend it on other social programs just to solidify their political base? I know I don't.

[Waldoe]

no... you are wrong... ripping off the American taxpayer by "Claiming" to support our Brave Veterans is a "Scum-bag" trick

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@Waldoe: You don't think it's a basic right for sick and disabled vets to get the urgent care they need?

You don't seem to have a problem with major corporations getting huge tax breaks while they screw you over i. e. the oil companies who are currently making outrageous profits percentage wise.

[Avicenna]

Have you read the bill (I haven't either, but I'm not rendering judgment on it)?

The Democrats are known to bring bills up for a vote that have some giveaways to, for example, their campaign donors, or they have something else objectionable in there that most Republicans don't want to vote for in addition to the claimed purpose of the bill, but the Democrats just want to propagandize about.

And that money for Ukraine didn't get passed without Democrats pushing it through Congress- it would have died in committees without Democratic leadership shepherding it through because they control Congress.

But people like you drink the corrupt Democrats' Kool Aid all the time while they laugh at you.

[Avicenna]

Well, here's an explanation of what happened:

rollcall.com/.../

Seems like properly understanding what's going on requires some knowledge of parliamentary procedures in Congress and budget rules, something few of us understand well enough to really get what's going on.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

It should be passed, period. These vets need the help right now.

Playing politics and trying to spin into a political talking points isn't going to help vets that are currently suffering.

[goaded]

Republicans are known for lying. Here's the bill, where's the pork? www.congress.gov/.../text

[ObscuredBeyond]

The modestly rich with brains vote Consti Party or Libertarian. And unfortunately, they are then subjected to insane levels of lawless persecution. The farmer who supports them is also persecuted, by both major parties, because their realization that the GOP is controlled opposition makes these farmers a threat. The obscenely wealthy that don't pander to woke cults are eaten for lunch. The ones that do, are given a free pass to have unethical business practices.

Democrat and Republican farmers are both suckers. The wolves will eat them. They're merely voting for which wolf they'd rather have eat them.

#TimeForVigilantesWithFlamethrowers

We need the spirit of Patrick Henry to make a roaring, earthquake-inducing loud comeback! Make ourselves into a Hercules capable of undoing this hydra of a machine that's running the show now!

And no use in waiting around for Trump to fix anything. He won't. Many elderly still can't figure that out.

[ShadezMcgee]

What else is in that bill, dude? How much of that was truly going to veterans and home much was getting passed that was completely unrelated to them and in fact truly for other causes amd ideals they are trying to push? Using disinformation and playing dirty is something the left has done before and continues to do.

I need more than just a video trying to smear Republicans further by use of bumping and edited titles.

[goaded]

Nothing. Literally nothing but money for veterans. Read it and tell me where the pork is.

www.congress.gov/.../text

[ShadezMcgee]

@goaded cool, I will take a look at it shortly.

[NewsReader]

Others have already explained and you still don't get it because of your bias. The bill can be called whatever the writer wants it to be. What matters is where the money is coming from and where it's going. If you read the bill then you will see that it's not all about helping veterans. Just like the original Build Back Better contained all sorts of unnecessary stuff which started getting cut up piece by piece. These bills are not as simple as they sound.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

I don't want to hear about the damn money is "coming from" They always seem to have money for other countries problems.

[NewsReader]

I found out the reason from the CQ Roll Call podcast. The bill reclassifies mandatory spending. It will usher more spending which is something we should avoid. But, there will be an amendment vote on Monday so there is still a chance it can pass if unnecessary stuff can be removed.

[goaded]

What "unnecessary stuff", exactly? Name one thing. www.congress.gov/.../text

[NewsReader]

@goaded www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../jon-stewart-clashes-cruz-over-burn-pits-bill

[goaded]

Between the two votes in the Senate they took out one sentence, suddenly 29 Republicans couldn't possibly vote for it.

The sentence: "Not a taxable benefit. A contract buy-out for a covered health care professional under subsection (a) shall not be considered a taxable benefit or event for the covered health care professional"

Cruz is lying. All the money goes to exactly the same place as when he voted for it in the first place, and it's the same amount.

[TwoToTooTutu2]

I'm in the Army. I am sick of being politicized. I am an individual not a tool to push any agenda. Both parties are horrible with that. The state of the Military in American public opinion is just horrible. I actively avoid letting people know I am in the Army here. It's kinda fucked to screw over vets, but that's the VA's stupid job

[goaded]

This law says that veterans don't have to prove their diseases brought on by breathing toxic chemicals were caused by the military to get care.

[Chazmatazz269]

That’s not entirely accurate. The bill shifted $400,000,000,000 from discretionary spending FOR veterans, to mandatory spending with unspecified intent. Republicans are trying to amend the bill so that veterans’ healthcare isn’t short-changed, taxpayer burden isn’t increased by BILLIONS, and that current and future politicians can’t hide their fiscal irresponsibility behind the noble cause of caring for our veterans and active military personnel.

[goaded]

I just asked the same. Republicans just killed a bill to provide medical care to veterans, why? They're scum.

[goaded]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmacgVAtxSk

[Anonymous]

Are people really this gullible? They hear "the bill helps veterans" and that's all they care about and don't take the little time it takes to actually understand all the other shit buried in the bill that makes it crap. Democrats are particularly sneaky about this crap but Republicans do it too.

Have we as Americans really become this willing to be such naïve and ignorant tools for our "team"?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

It's the nature of passing legislation in this country. You have to accept the good with the bad.

There's some legislation that can be outright rejected if it's pure nonsense, but this vets health and benefits on the table.

To understand, put yourself in the position of a vet that has back problems, breathing problems etc.

You wouldn't care about all the other stuff buried under the main and most important agenda.

[Opinion Owner]

So you just accept the deception and corruption as "part of the game"? Sorry bro, but that's nonsense. If Dems actually gave a fuck about vets they would put together a bill that helps vets without a bunch of other garbage that they know damned well is likely to sink it.

This is on Dems, not Repubs.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm not a Republican by the way. I can't stand them right now. But the bill is an example of how fucked up American politics has become. We should not just roll over and accept this bullshit. We deserve better.

Don't be a tool.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

I told you, legislation doesn't work that way in this country.

When a bill is proposed its always going to be extra stuff in that bill that has nothing to do with the main agenda being proposed.

For ex: during the 2008-2009 financial crisis, Obama and congress had to pass bills that some stuff in there had nothing to do with the financial crisis, but at the sametime they just couldn't do nothing because banks will go under and lots of more jobs would have been lost, car dealerships would have been screwed and the housing market as well.

You have to take the good with the perceived bad and deal with it down the road, but the emergency has to be met right then and now.

[goaded]

Here's the bill, it's just a few pages. Point out the "tricks".

www.congress.gov/.../text

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded I'm not clicking your link. The bill allows almost half $ trillion dollars in mandatory spending over the next 10 years that is completely unrelated to helping veterans. That is a fact no one is denying. Republicans have said if Democrats remove that nonsense from the bill, they will vote for it. Questions?

[goaded]

Just one. Why won't you read the bill? (It's the government's website.)

You'll take what you've been told as the truth, but can't be bothered to look into it. There is not one cent more spending in today's version of the bill than June's, which got 84 votes in the Senate. The conditions of the budgeting haven't changed, except for the tax implications for some doctors. Gullible is thinking that Republicans won't lie about their change of votes.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded Not sure what June's vote has to do about this discussion today. The fact is the bill has the almost half a $ trillion in pork barrel bullshit that is totally unrelated to helping veterans. No one disputes that fact, including you. If Democrats truly wanted to pass a bill to help veterans they would have left out that bullshit. As I said, this is on Dems. This is not rocket science bro.

[goaded]

Really? You don't see that a vote for the essentially identical bill a month ago has anything to do with their opposite votes just a few weeks later? Not one word, not one cent of spending was added to the bill between June and this latest vote. And yet 29 Republicans changed their votes to no. Why?

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded Really? Your defense of this shit bill, and the fact that Democrats tried to pass such garbage and disguise almost a half $ trillion of pork barrel spending during such economically difficult times as "support for veterans" is that no one caught it sooner? Come on man, can't you do any better than that?

[goaded]

Not one word, not one cent of spending was added to the bill between June and the July vote. And yet 29 Republicans changed their votes to no. Then they changed their minds again and voted yes. Somebody's lying, and it's not the Democrats.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded A shitty bill authored in June is still a shitty bill today. The fact that Democrats authored such garbage is the issue here, not the fact that no one called it out sooner.

[goaded]

It was only a "shitty bill" for a couple of days until everyone had a chance to see that it did exactly what it said in the title and Republican senators hadn't got a leg to stand on. Then the vote for it was 86-11 again. You keep defending Republican lies, even after the Republicans gave up on them.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded I'm not the one deflecting here. Your entire argument is based on Republicans changing their vote, nothing more. You have never addressed the real issue here, which is the fact that this bill was a trojan horse to push through half a $ trillion in Democrat pork barrel spending during one of the most economically precarious times in our country's history, disguised as a bill to help veterans. If Democrats actually gave a fuck about veterans they would have written a good bill to help them instead of using them as an excuse to pass their garbage spending bill.

[goaded]

Bullshit. If the bill was really as terrible as you say, Republicans would have simply pointed that out, made a solid case, and voted against it all three times, not just on one of three votes (at which they celebrated its defeat). Their votes were not about the content of the bill, they were for another reason, to deprive the Democrats of an achievement.

It was a good bill, and it passed.

[Exterminatore]

What was in the Bill? Didn’t a bill for this just pass in June?


The problem is some of these bills have hidden measures in them. Like the Covid relief bill for Pakistan that included money for gender studies there.


Seems awfully suspicious anyone on either side of the isle would celebrate blocking such a bill if the bill only contained the measures for Vet burn pit victims.

[goaded]

They took out one sentence about taxable benefits, then 29 Republicans decided they made a mistake in June and switched their vote. There's nothing in the bill to pay for anything but veterans health care.

[Exterminatore]

If you are correct then I think this is exceedingly wrong of the Republicans. However I suspect there is still more to it than that. Democrat or Republican should know this is career suicide to not only vote that way be celibate it.

I’m a disabled vet myself. I lost about 30% of my heating in the service. I know how difficult it is to get due compensation. It would be true to say I volunteered, and that I knew there would definitely be risks with the job I chose. That said when I watch them give $25 million in “Covid relief” to Pakistan, but ignore the suffering of the people who fought for the country, it doesn’t sit well with me. This most especially is my view for anyone who was drafted, which hasn’t occurred since the Vietnam War. Those people were forced into the military against their will. That’s a huge sacrifice. They most especially should be taken care of.

If there’s money for every matter under the sun, I’d think taking care of people who literally fought for the country and are now permanently disabled as a result would be a priority. I think they deserve it. I’d even be willing to give up the very little compensation I receive for those who are ill due to those burn pits if that’s what it took. Fortunately I did not get exposed to any of that. My heart breaks for those people.

[goaded]

Just for perspective, $25 million is 0.00625% of this bill. There really isn't more to the bill than advertised. It's quite short and specific, not a thousand-page monstrosity where people can reasonably object they didn't have time to (have someone) read it back in June before the vote when 84 senators voted for it. Anyone claiming some trick or extra spending was added are simply lying, not one word was added to the bill since June.

[NamerOfStars]

The FIVE HUNDRED PAGE bill? You think that was just about veterans and didn't have any pork barrel components? Do you criticize the Democrats who voted against the Patriot act for "not wanting to fight terrorism"?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

I was too young to understand politics at time when that proposed bill was introduced.

All legislation wheather a Republican or Democrat propose it will always have extra stuff aside from the agenda.

It's how American politics work. It's a stupid way of working but that's how it is.

[NamerOfStars]

That's my point- there may have been some truly heinous stuff in that bill that it was perfectly reasonable to vote against. Criticizing people for voting against it because it does one thing you support is rather excessive, when there may be a hundred things you object to.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Heinous stuff? Spending on what the nation needs is heinous stuff to you?

[NamerOfStars]

Not at all- but do be so kind as to show me where in the bill is anything the country actually needs. A country racked by the worst inflation in half a century doesn't need to bail Ukraine out of a self-made crisis. A country devastated by a seemingly endless rash of mass shootings doesn't need to glorify violence. A country that can't keep its own people fed doesn't need to finance gender programs in Pakistan.

[Pudsmucker]

I saw that came across the other day. The only thing that I can think of is the Republicans refuse to sign was there soon additional pork added to the bill. A lot of Republicans remind me of a lot of Jewish friends that I have they don't like pork either.

[goaded]

There wasn't any money added to the bill, it was the same $400bn they agreed to in June.

[exitseven]

If you looked closely at the bill it was loaded with wasteful spending that had nothing to do with helping veterans.

[goaded]

What, exactly? www.congress.gov/.../text

[goaded]

That's a lie. Between getting 84 votes in the Senate in June and just 55 in July, they removed one sentence: "Not a taxable benefit. A contract buy-out for a covered health care professional under subsection (a) shall not be considered a taxable benefit or event for the covered health care professional". This has nothing to do with the money, which didn't change by a cent.

[SandyBeaches]

Who controls the house the senate and the white house?

[Anonymous]

Anyone who believes whatever ABC report's has far more significant issues with their connection to reality than worry about anther one sided political conspiracy theory.

[goaded]

How about looking at the bill itself, and the votes. Facts are facts. www.congress.gov/.../text

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded Really you read that whole thing and you can't be troubled to read the 11 page Federal Constitution?

[goaded]

What does the constitution say about who is in charge of discipline in the militia?

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded This would be in A1S8C16, Practically its still the States who command the officers & training, thou congress may provide for the needed organizing, arming, and disciplining. It is still the officers who choose to follow and enforce said rules, and the States who control how they are taught in the training.

[goaded]

So, if Congress decided that every member of the militia should be trained for six weeks a year to be included...

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded
I don't see why congress could not provide for that much training:

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"

I'm not at all convinced they can require that much training in practice, both because the term provide likely means only to provide resources for said task. A 'require' meaning would conflict with the separate power of Governing power as well as the explicitly reserved officers and authority of training powers.
Still some variation of that definition was feared by the anti-federalist and as such became the justification for the 2nd amendment.

[Anonymous]

It's a shit bill. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

[EnglishEuropean]

False. Republicans hate everybody and support themselves.

[WhiteBoyChill]

There’s nothing wrong with trying to negotiate for a better piece of legislation.

The package wasn’t as good as it could’ve been

[007kingifrit]

the thing you might be forgetting to ask is... what else did the bill do?

[Anonymous]

They don't care at all.

[Iron_Man]

The VA hospital is helping out my family

[MrTaboo]

What else was attached to that bill?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

It doesn't matter. You actually think hurting vets care what's attached to the bill?

All they care about is the immediate help.

[MrTaboo]

As a retired vet, I know democrats LOOOOOVE to attach a whole bunch of crap to anything dealing with veterans. What else was there?

[goaded]

Here's the bill, where's the pork? www.congress.gov/.../text

[maximumpower]

I bet your parents are proud.