Which would be more effective for deterring crimes like drug offenses, vandalism, shoplifting, and fighting?

[RealMarek]

The Quakers played a major role in replacing corporal punishment with penitentiary punishment, but it seems to result in a life of crime and years of lost time for many people who go through the system.

Jail or Juvenile Detention

Public Flogging or Caning

[NamerOfStars]

Implementing brutal corporal punishment doesn't deter crime at all; it just transfers it from the individual to the government. And implementing mild corporal punishment leads to brutal gorporal punishment; look at Singapore.

Once the government knows your dignity as a person is up for grabs, the abuses begin in earnest, and they don't shop until they're forced to. The Quakers understood this, and the required resistance the people have to do to keep institutional evils in check (and they do so nonviolently, because they're badasses).

The best way to stop crime, in the long term, is to make it unnecessary by making people prosperous, and encouraging interrelation, so that people *and their brains* see others as human, too. But society's headed in the opposite direction, so...

[RealMarek]

I’m not suggesting we transfer something from the individual to the government. Punishment of crime in whatever form is one of the government’s powers. From what I know of the prison system from people who work in it, there is nothing preserving the dignity of prisoners in the system. They are subject to humiliating strip searches, beatings and rapes are common. The high rate of recidivism shows it doesn’t work.

That said, I completely agree that thriving communities and economies are the best way to reduce crime.

[NamerOfStars]

Oh, you're not *intending* to transfer anything; that's a consequence, not an intention. Prisoners are people who've been tried and convicted by the citizenry; a far cry from those who've simply been accused with enough evidence to get a warrant. In this case, it's not the power that corrupts, but the lack of accountability.

[RealMarek]

I’m not quite sure of what you mean. Warrant, trial, and a conviction would be necessary regardless of the method of puishment.

[NamerOfStars]

No, they wouldn't. That's tow how power works.

[Tyrael]

Until you get rid of for-profit private prisons, you won't get real prison reform. Why would they want that? They need prisoners to make money. Also do away with minimum sentences for minor drug offences.

[RealMarek]

I agree completely. Private prisons have a perverse set of incentives.

[nonyabeez-wax]

Neither. Private prisons do nothing to actually punish criminals, or rather, do nothing to rehabilitate them properly. Now you have multiple generations of criminals who idolize career criminals, and look forward to doing time in jail.

Abolish Private Prisons, work to rehabilitate criminals is the best way to end career criminals.

The best way to prevent juvenile criminals is to have a father, or strong male role model who can teach them responsibility, present, and active in their lives.

[jshm2]

The Quakers were fucking cowards. They even had legal exemption to military service or supporting war efforts.

All they have done is create a slave and jail industry which rewards politicians and Quakers for housing criminals.

The reason most criminals reoffend, is lack of education and guidance. Some are even just victims of circumstance. But just jailing them does little for the offender, but gives the public false hope while the jails owners make a profit from the taxpayer.

[MCheetah]

They do option B in Singapore. Public attacks only work if the person is shameful or remorseful. Prison time however, is actual time taken away from your life. Time you can never get back. So while I'm in the minority, I say prison time is more effective, because time is more valuable than being a "public badass" in the eyes of some criminals.

[RealMarek]

I think a lot would come down to whether the criminal could get through the punishment without crying. If he cries, he would not look like a badass. But I see your point.

[XhmadRooz]

In my view the best way to fight crimes to take the tools that give rise crimes.

These tools are: 1) Alcoholic Beverages, 2) Guns, 3) Old Cars and Fast Cars, 4) Racism; not employeing enough of other races so they feed themselves, High rents and products prices, 6) providing outskirts of the city with clean water, better school, better college or University, 7) better hospitals. Once you took the tools of crimes will demish forever.

[RealMarek]

I agree in part: better education and a more livable economy would help. However, the US tried prohibiting alcohol and it resulted in serious organized crime.

[Chazmatazz269]

Just because the US has no desire to make the most of rehabilitation, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.

[RealMarek]

Do you have ideas about why this is? It seems our prison system is pretty worthless aside from keeping criminals (temporarily) off the streets.

[Chazmatazz269]

I’ve watched a couple of documentaries on countries that statistically get it right more often than the US. What i took away from them is that in the US, we institutionalize people to punish them, while countries like Norway, Finland and others institutionalize people to rehabilitate them. Punishing someone who almost certainly only commits crime because they already feel punished by the system is only going to fuel the fire. Showing them there’s a better way and teaching them how to achieve it themselves will change more lives for the better. In the US, we see this as a function of “wasting tax dollars on human trash”. Overseas they see it as an investment in a more peaceful and productive society. Their results support this too. They have lower recidivism rates, and higher per capita productivity and revenues than we do. Despite this information being readily publicly available, we’re stubborn in the states. We KNOW there are better ways to respond to crime, but there’s too much money to be made in the privatization of punishment and treating human beings like animals instead of people.

[RealMarek]

What is certain is that a system with frequent strip searches, prison rapes, and all sorts of abuse will fail to rehabilitate. Private prisons have no incentive to rehabilitate. But I do wonder if Americans are too different culturally from Scandinavians to attempt to use their model in the US.

[Chazmatazz269]

It’s not an inherent difference between peoples. It’s our indoctrination to the existing system. Pretty much anything goes in the US, as long as the rich keep getting richer. You might have the best argument in the world for rehabilitation over punishment, but if some rich assholes stand to lose money on rehabilitation instead of making money on punishment, it absolutely will not pass our political muster.

[exitseven]

I would go along with public floggings again. People need to feel some shame for committing these offenses.

[MikeInHawaii]

Singapore uses B and has a minute fraction of our crime.

[Hellraiser1984]

Manos the hands of Fate 24 hours a day for a month Ludovico technique!

[Staximus]

Humiliation works wonders

[RealMarek]

Especially for teen bullies and the like. More important is finding a punishment that is an actual deterrent (unpleasant) and doesn’t take away months of a person’s life, train him to he a career criminal, and make him unemployable.

[maximumpower]

Death.
Would certainly discourage the repeat offenders.

[OddBeMe]

C. Job training, forced education

[UCrayCray]

Right?
Employability skills should be embedded right into the jail sentence. I never understood the idea that removing someone from a situation for a period of time, only to return them to the same desperate situation a few years older, is somehow supposed to “rehabilitate” them?
Nah! Current system sets them up to fail. And it’s successful in that endeavor.

[OddBeMe]

@UCrayCray agreed, thats definition of insanity

[RealMarek]

It couldn’t hurt, as long as we keep the prison system. We would have to do something about companies discriminating against people who have served a prison sentence.

[UCrayCray]

Perhaps a coordinated effort where companies can participate in training people for positions they need to fill.
Job fares, like they would do in a school.
I’m sure there’s a way. Unfortunately, it doesn’t fit the business model of the private companies that run the jails.
They’re more inclined to encourage repeat business from their current captive clientele.

[RealMarek]

@UCrayCray you make a good point about the perverse incentives of private prison companies.

[OddBeMe]

Oh i could go a day and a half on private prisons. Theyre why marijuana isn't legal

[888theGreat]

No parole of anyone , anymore

[Fuentes]

Spankings lol